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woofiedog
12-07-2006, 04:37 AM
A bit of reading... but a decent article.

German wonder weapons: degraded production and effectiveness
Air Force Journal of Logistics, Fall, 2003 by Todd J. Schollars

Link: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IBO/is_3_27/ai_111852898

Quote... page 9

In fall 1944 alone, the Luftwaffe lost 12 pilots with 1,146 kills among them. (53) This not only decreased Germany's combat capability but also meant there were few old hands left to pass on hard-won knowledge to the new pilots. Most had been flying since 1939-1940 (some even had Spanish Civil War experience), giving them unmatched combat experience. However, the lengthy combat time placed a tremendous physical and psychological stress on them. Indeed, Galland noticed the lack of fighting spirit, even in 1943, when he saw several fighters fire on bombers from too far away to be effective, then leave for home. (54) However, there were some pilots ready to fight, and the limited wonder weapons gave them the spirit to return to duty. When assembling his Me 262 wing, Jagdverband 44, Galland rounded up the most raffish, battle-hardened veterans, several from the pilots rest home. "Many reported without consent or transfer orders. Most had been in action since the first day of the war, and all had been wounded. The Knights Cross, so to speak, was the badge of our unit. Now after a long period of technical and numerical inferiority, they wanted once more to experience the feeling of air superiority. For this, they were ready once more to chance sacrificing their lives." (55) Unfortunately for them, there were far too few pilots and even fewer superior weapons, those being not advanced enough to matter. Germany had again failed those who served her so well.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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woofiedog
12-07-2006, 04:37 AM
A bit of reading... but a decent article.

German wonder weapons: degraded production and effectiveness
Air Force Journal of Logistics, Fall, 2003 by Todd J. Schollars

Link: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IBO/is_3_27/ai_111852898

Quote... page 9

In fall 1944 alone, the Luftwaffe lost 12 pilots with 1,146 kills among them. (53) This not only decreased Germany's combat capability but also meant there were few old hands left to pass on hard-won knowledge to the new pilots. Most had been flying since 1939-1940 (some even had Spanish Civil War experience), giving them unmatched combat experience. However, the lengthy combat time placed a tremendous physical and psychological stress on them. Indeed, Galland noticed the lack of fighting spirit, even in 1943, when he saw several fighters fire on bombers from too far away to be effective, then leave for home. (54) However, there were some pilots ready to fight, and the limited wonder weapons gave them the spirit to return to duty. When assembling his Me 262 wing, Jagdverband 44, Galland rounded up the most raffish, battle-hardened veterans, several from the pilots rest home. "Many reported without consent or transfer orders. Most had been in action since the first day of the war, and all had been wounded. The Knights Cross, so to speak, was the badge of our unit. Now after a long period of technical and numerical inferiority, they wanted once more to experience the feeling of air superiority. For this, they were ready once more to chance sacrificing their lives." (55) Unfortunately for them, there were far too few pilots and even fewer superior weapons, those being not advanced enough to matter. Germany had again failed those who served her so well.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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tsisqua
12-07-2006, 06:21 AM
Thanks, Woofie

Right now, I must admit, I am waiting to fly the Lerche . . . I am really interested in seeing what the developers have come up with in the way of a flight model . . . I realize that it never really got off the drawing board, but I have this morbid curiosity; And I think your post really states the reason for this.

Those pilots had more aircombat experience than any others have had in history, or ever will have. Always willing to do whatever it took to be the best. By the end of the war their will to succeed had been reduced by Hitler's "Let them fight, and die honorably" mentality, when he finally knew that it was close to over. He had misused the 20th century's greatest minds: physicists, engineers, doctors . . . etc. Germany could boast that she was possibly the most technologically advanced nation of the time. All in vain. Or was it? The delta wing craft, the Lerche with its vertical takeoff capability, jet power in general, the ejection seat . . . all were the precursors of the technology which we have now.

When I fly the Lerche, it will be more than simply flying a fantasy craft in a game. It will be, for me, a personal tribute to a great nation and her brilliant people.

Great post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

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Treetop64
12-07-2006, 08:34 AM
Couldn't have said it better myself, Tsisqua. I share your sentiment.

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ploughman
12-07-2006, 09:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Germany had again failed those who served her so well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Interesting sentiment that, referring I expect to the whole 'stabbed in the back' thing from 1918 except in this case it seems to be a variation on the 'if only you'd given us the tools we'd've finished the job.' Finger pointing's a universal trait when things go inverted so has anyone ever read anything on the blame game in defeated nations?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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LStarosta
12-07-2006, 09:23 AM
What do you expect from a bunch of fascist pigs?

AS for the tribute, Tsisqua, you should worship Oleg and his team because the brilliant peoples' design of the Lerche wouldn't have flown IRL.

Looks like 1C pulled off the same trick they did with half the Russian planes in the game.

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tsisqua
12-07-2006, 11:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
AS for the tribute, Tsisqua, you should worship Oleg and his team because the brilliant peoples' design of the Lerche wouldn't have flown IRL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm well aware.

However, neither would drawing board stages of some craft that actually did fly later. Would you poo-poo on DaVinci's designs, just because he didn't have the means to provide power to his flying inventions? For his time, they were "brilliant"; And so was he!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:

Looks like 1C pulled off the same trick they did with half the Russian planes in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Good to see that some things didn't change while I was absent. Apparently, this is one opinion destined to be around as long as this forum exists.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
Pardon me while I head out to McDonalds and get a Whaaaburger and some Frenchwhines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem, Mate. Was just there myself. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


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WTE_Ibis
12-08-2006, 12:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">tsisqua </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Way to go tsisqua http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


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HotelBushranger
12-08-2006, 12:49 AM
Yeah, what the hell's up your arse Starosta? Pissed off because America and your own little ego aren't being worshipped every day?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Whirlin_merlin
12-08-2006, 01:10 AM
Have to admit when I first read the second post I thought hang on a minute, then I reread it and thought about it.

The majority of the German people should be veiwed as 'victims' of the Nazis, they were abused by Hitler. This doesn't absolve them (I mean those of the time) of blame and responsability, it just accepts that reality was not simply black and white.

It has been said that the importance of history is to learn from it. To demonise the German people ignores the fact that it could have been any nation, the idea that there is some inherant difference in the Germans that lead to it is plain wrong. If we forget this we risk it happening again in our nations.

LStarosta you need to do some growing up, please bear in mind that the character traits needed for Nazism to thrive included: Absolute belief in their own national superiority both cultural and technological, unquestioning loyalty to the state, a bullying approach to those that disagree with you and a belief that might makes right. Ring any bells?

Thanatos833
12-08-2006, 01:50 AM
Well whether you are a German or American of whatever one can be glad that Germany did not win the war. The world would have been pretty fudged up if it had. I think even the Germans will agree with me here.

Of course judging by that article, the Germans were too messed up for their war effort to really amount to anything.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9285/do17in9.jpg

The Dornier Do-17, another brilliant example of German engineering, a ???Schnellbomber" which could just outrun all fighters, this plane led to the German victory in the Battle of Britain and indeed, the Second World War.

LStarosta
12-08-2006, 06:49 AM
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You are all great. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Vike
12-08-2006, 07:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tsisqua:
Right now, I must admit, I am waiting to fly the Lerche . . . I am really interested in seeing what the developers have come up with in the way of a flight model . . . I realize that it never really got off the drawing board, but I have this morbid curiosity; And I think your post really states the reason for this.

Those pilots had more aircombat experience than any others have had in history, or ever will have. Always willing to do whatever it took to be the best. By the end of the war their will to succeed had been reduced by Hitler's "Let them fight, and die honorably" mentality, when he finally knew that it was close to over. He had misused the 20th century's greatest minds: physicists, engineers, doctors . . . etc. Germany could boast that she was possibly the most technologically advanced nation of the time. All in vain. Or was it? The delta wing craft, the Lerche with its vertical takeoff capability, jet power in general, the ejection seat . . . all were the precursors of the technology which we have now.

When I fly the Lerche, it will be more than simply flying a fantasy craft in a game. It will be, for me, a personal tribute to a great nation and her brilliant people.

Great post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Tsisqua </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Sintubin
12-08-2006, 08:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vike:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tsisqua:
Right now, I must admit, I am waiting to fly the Lerche . . . I am really interested in seeing what the developers have come up with in the way of a flight model . . . I realize that it never really got off the drawing board, but I have this morbid curiosity; And I think your post really states the reason for this.

Those pilots had more aircombat experience than any others have had in history, or ever will have. Always willing to do whatever it took to be the best. By the end of the war their will to succeed had been reduced by Hitler's "Let them fight, and die honorably" mentality, when he finally knew that it was close to over. He had misused the 20th century's greatest minds: physicists, engineers, doctors . . . etc. Germany could boast that she was possibly the most technologically advanced nation of the time. All in vain. Or was it? The delta wing craft, the Lerche with its vertical takeoff capability, jet power in general, the ejection seat . . . all were the precursors of the technology which we have now.

When I fly the Lerche, it will be more than simply flying a fantasy craft in a game. It will be, for me, a personal tribute to a great nation and her brilliant people.

Great post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Tsisqua </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Count me in too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


Tsisqua = http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


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Thanatos833
12-08-2006, 12:17 PM
^^^ Well if you read the linked article the German people seem far from brilliant.

Of course considering they elected Hitler to power one doesn't need an article to know that.

Of course they also drove a few of their most brilliant minds away b/c they happened to be jews.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9285/do17in9.jpg

The Dornier Do-17, another brilliant example of German engineering, a ???Schnellbomber" which could just outrun all fighters, this plane led to the German victory in the Battle of Britain and indeed, the Second World War.