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fordfan25
05-26-2005, 09:22 PM
wich fighter do you prefear in dog fight servers such as zeakVSwildcat,334dedacated,spitVS109 ect ect. for air to air. the stang or the jug? why?

fordfan25
05-26-2005, 09:22 PM
wich fighter do you prefear in dog fight servers such as zeakVSwildcat,334dedacated,spitVS109 ect ect. for air to air. the stang or the jug? why?

AerialTarget
05-26-2005, 09:38 PM
I prefer the Jug. There's really no practical reason to fly it, as the Mustang can (in the game) do nearly everything much better than the Jug, but the Jug's a much cooler airplane.

DONB3397
05-26-2005, 09:57 PM
This might get interesting. The jug was a ground attack a/c. But it's hi altitude performance made it pretty good for short range sweeps and escort missions.

Some guys fly it online because 8 x .50 cal can make an impression on the opposition, and it can take hits (e.g., bomber gunner shots) and get back to friendly turf. I use it for ground attack missions when it's available, and intercepts if there's time to get up high.

The mustang, seems good up high or down low, turns well when flown right, and can sometimes run away from a bad situation. On the other hand, one m.g. hit in the engine and you're dead-stick. When I look at the scores and the planes the better pilots are flying, I don't seem to see many mustangs.

I suspect you'll get a few different takes on this.

ImpStarDuece
05-26-2005, 10:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DONB3397:
This might get interesting. The jug was a ground attack a/c. But it's hi altitude performance made it pretty good for short range sweeps and escort missions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The P-47 was designed as a long range, high altitude fighter first and foremost. The fact that it also worked well as a ground attack fighter was just a happy coincidence. It was never designed as a G/A aircraft, it was just used as such because its radial egine and very strong structure made it safe and reliable down low. Its performance was less than sparkling below 18,000 feet though.

The P-47 could escort the heavies all the way to the German border and when they started pressurising the the 75 gal and 110 gal fuel tanks (babies as the pilots used to call them) it could actually escort the heavies into the the Ruhr.

Above about 6500-7000m I7ll take a P-47 over a Mustang. Better energy retention through maneuvers and a more stable ride overall at that alt. I fly the jug non-stop, in any situation. However, I will acknowledge the P-51 as a much better knife fighter though they are both great energy fighter.

Personally I just feel safer in the P-47. It might be something to do witht he ability to dive at 900 indicated and not rip the wings off http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BuzzU
05-26-2005, 10:36 PM
The P-51 is a better fighter, but the Jug is way cooler and more satisfying to get a kill with.

I vote for the Jug.

WTE_DuStA
05-26-2005, 10:47 PM
the jug oozes sex, the mustang does not ooze as much as the jug so the jug wins. I love going up in a flight of two or three jugs and harrasing 109's

idonno
05-26-2005, 11:04 PM
Three of the top five US aces in Europe flew Mustangs, but they were third, forth and fifth. The top two spots are held by Jug pilots! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In fact, seven of the top ten flew the Jug.

They're comparable in speed, so in real life, where most guys who were shot down didn't see it coming, it boils down to the fact that eight 50's obviously will get you more kills than six.

The 51 is a better dogfight, but the 47 is the better fighter. Which means the Jug wins in real life and the Mustang wins in the arenas, but I still prefer to fly the Jug. The P-51 is such a pretty boy's plane. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

robban75
05-26-2005, 11:32 PM
The P-51 is slightly faster than the P-47, but the P-47 climbs better, both can reach 23.3m/sec climbrates with 25% fuel, but on a whole the P-47 has a better climbrate. The P-47 rolls better, and can reach higher terminal dive speeds. The Mustang has better initial dive acceleration, and has a better turnrate. The P-47 has more powerful armament.

I'd say they are equally good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BuzzU
05-26-2005, 11:37 PM
You have to love the speeds you can get in a dive with the Jug, and still stay in one piece.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fennec_P
05-27-2005, 12:14 AM
The wings on the P-47 have more glue than the P-51, so it is clearly better.

WOLFMondo
05-27-2005, 01:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by robban75:
The P-51 is slightly faster than the P-47, but the P-47 climbs better, both can reach 23.3m/sec climbrates with 25% fuel, but on a whole the P-47 has a better climbrate. The P-47 rolls better, and can reach higher terminal dive speeds. The Mustang has better initial dive acceleration, and has a better turnrate. The P-47 has more powerful armament.

I'd say they are equally good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At full power though the P47 burns allot more fuel and its cruising speed is considerably less than the P51. I find I can burn off 50% fuel in some sorties in the Jug in a matter of an hour or so.

Cajun76
05-27-2005, 06:56 AM
The Jug's "short range" is in comparison to it's stable mates, the Mustang and P-38. Interestingly, the Jug got the capability to go to Berlin and back at about the time the Mustang arrived in sufficient numbers to to the job and the bulk of the Thunderbolts were being transferred to the Ninth. I believe it was the -25 or -27 that recieved the additional tank behind the pilot, similar to the Mustang, but no stability issues arrising from it. Above 8000m (26,000ft.) I believe the T-Bolt had the edge in speed, but that's off the top of my head. Most of the complaints about the Jugs performance down low were eliminated I believe, when the paddle props were introduced.

I fly 334 quite a bit, and there's rumours (visciously spread by bolilo_loco) that I took a Mustang for a spin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Generally, I'll be in a Jug, no matter the situation. It's much more rugged, and I just like the dynamics better. Check out the Jugheads, step forward please (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7931010423) thread for some tips for surviving both low and high.

If I had one a/c to choose to do most anything, whether high alt escort, all the way down to mudmoving, it would be the -27. I don't need some special Mk. or dedicated ground attack model to do the job. Strap some bombs on, lets go. High alt? No problem, few can match the T-bolt up there, unless they're dedicated to nothing else. Flown right, she can do everything well. One day, I hope to be able to get that out of her. It takes practice and patience, just like anything worth doing.

geetarman
05-27-2005, 09:32 AM
I would vote for the Mustang over the Jug.

I find the Mustang to be more agile, climbs as good and can dive very well. It's elevators are better at high speeds and it's roll greatly increases as speed go up. I find it to be the best high speed plane in the game (although the 190 series are great too) in fact.

On top of that, the K-14 gunsight is a real gem. It's visibility is better than almost any other plane (D series) which means you have more opportunity to increase your SA (the lifeblood of a fighter pilot). Six 50's are more than enough to get kills.

A well flown 51, I believe, can have a few more options than a Jug when things get sticky.

Although the 47 is a bit better over 25,000 - 26,000', the difference is not huge. The B and C Mustang seems to perform even better than the D at those alts, narrowing the gap further with the Jug.

Unlike others, I don't think the 47 is anywhere near the Mustang in terms of being an exceptional energy fighter. A Jug does it's thing better than most (dive, fire, extend, repeat) but I can't say it can stay in a high speed, manuevering engagement better than a Mustang.

Yes, I love the 47 and grew up reading the exploits of the masters. I think in a direct comparision though, the Mustang comes out a good bit ahead, although it's closer when you think in terms of adding durability to the mix.

Diablo310th
05-27-2005, 10:56 AM
Big, Bad,and Beautiful ....I'll take the fat lady anytime. She'll keep ya safe and sound and in a dive there ani't no one gonna catch ya. Ohh yeah P-47D27 and wishin for a P-47N with 72" manifold pressure. Yeee hawww

fordfan25
05-27-2005, 05:59 PM
yea if we had the N it would be no contest lol. but that would make the game to easy for the jug flyers. all the ki84s and la-7's would become sitting ducks lol. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_DuStA
05-27-2005, 08:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by geetarman:
I would vote for the Mustang over the Jug.

I find the Mustang to be more agile, climbs as good and can dive very well. It's elevators are better at high speeds and it's roll greatly increases as speed go up. I find it to be the best high speed plane in the game (although the 190 series are great too) in fact.

On top of that, the K-14 gunsight is a real gem. It's visibility is better than almost any other plane (D series) which means you have more opportunity to increase your SA (the lifeblood of a fighter pilot). Six 50's are more than enough to get kills.

A well flown 51, I believe, can have a few more options than a Jug when things get sticky.

Although the 47 is a bit better over 25,000 - 26,000', the difference is not huge. The B and C Mustang seems to perform even better than the D at those alts, narrowing the gap further with the Jug.

Unlike others, I don't think the 47 is anywhere near the Mustang in terms of being an exceptional energy fighter. A Jug does it's thing better than most (dive, fire, extend, repeat) but I can't say it can stay in a high speed, manuevering engagement better than a Mustang.

Yes, I love the 47 and grew up reading the exploits of the masters. I think in a direct comparision though, the Mustang comes out a good bit ahead, although it's closer when you think in terms of adding durability to the mix. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


When a mustang can sustain a high speed dive and not have it's wings ripped off then you can say it can dive very well and has responsive controls at 900 odd km/h. Durability in the mustang ? When it can sustain more than one round to the engine and more than a couple of hits to the wing roots then yes classify it as durable. Give me a jug anyday

PBNA-Boosher
05-27-2005, 08:55 PM
Of the 2? GImme a Jug. Of my choice? P-40, baby, anyday, if not American: Yak-1b!

VW-IceFire
05-27-2005, 09:56 PM
P-51...more agile. But I understand the draw of the P-47.

Kernow
05-28-2005, 01:48 AM
Like a lot of people have said already, the P-51 has all the attributes you need for a knife fight in the arenas, so I fly the P-47 like most of you above seem to.

My standard ride in Spit v 109 is the LF.IXc CW, but whenever Jugs are available I tend to fly them. I start by climbing to 20 grand (feet) or even more and then go looking behind the lines for unsuspecting enemy climbing out of their base. Nothing dives like the Thunderbolt, it comes down on the enemy like a, err Thunderbolt really http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif. Assuming they haven't seen you 8 x 50 cals will make a mess of anything, but timing is important, as you need to get pretty close for max effect, but don't have a lot of time due to the massive closure rate! If they see me or survive the first pass I generally zoom up and away and look for someone else - unsuspecting targets are not too hard to find. It may not be as much 'fun' as T&Bing in a P-51, for example, but, having said that, watching a 109 fall apart under a hail of 50 cal is actually quite funny http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Did some diving trials in QMB once. Most late war ac fall apart somewhere between 800 and 900 kph. The Jug was fine at 1000 and didn't experience structural failure until it hit the ground.

Although the P-47 is an awesome ground-attack ac and can survive a fair bit of ground fire, I'm always a little wary of using it for low-level ground-attack in the arenas. You're almost bound to run into a group of more agile enemy fighters who will have an altitude advantage over you - and that's not a good place to start from http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif. Going in a group or with an escort increases the chance of survival.

'Ponys are for show; Jugs for a pro.' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

F19_Ob
05-28-2005, 03:06 AM
my take according to the Haddockian "coolfactor"


The barrel-like appearance and great size of the jug is very comical when compared to the 109 or fw190.
The mustang is a bit too sharp an instrument for me but its still not quite a razor like the 109 wich I think is the most awesome killer out there, with a pilot who knows his stuff, (and the 30mm cannon). Without the 30mm cannon the 109 is about equal to the p51. (my opinion)

If I'm going to take out 109's and fw190's it must be in either a very crappy, unlikeley plane or a very comical one. The humoristical effect as result could be my single reason to fly the jug but I also cant help liking its characteristics wich infact reminds me a bit of 109's from the early days of il-2.

The p47 have one ok turn before its energy is gone and leaves even a 109 behind initially in a dive. Even if one cant turn with the 109 its possible to keep the distance too long for comfort and safe flight for the enemy trailing behind.
8 heavy mg's gives cannon punch if hitting.
It's also almost nescessary to fly in a group like with the il-2 or bf110 wich makes it lots more fun. I like the feeling of having mates who once in a while check 6 on the behalf of the group.
I like the bubblecanopy p47 most, not because performance but I dislike the bars in the middle of the screen in the earlier ones.

Anyway with these ingredients I simply cant stop laughing online, and I guess I'm just one of those who enjoy happiness a lot. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

geetarman
05-28-2005, 10:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_DuStA:

When a mustang can sustain a high speed dive and not have it's wings ripped off then you can say it can dive very well and has responsive controls at 900 odd km/h. Durability in the mustang ? When it can sustain more than one round to the engine and more than a couple of hits to the wing roots then yes classify it as durable. Give me a jug anyday </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't lost a wing in a Mustang after a long dive in ages. It's all about stick settings. Re: durability - my point was that the Thunderbolt is the more durable aircraft, not the Mustang.

Eagle_361st
05-28-2005, 11:58 AM
One can only guess what I prefer. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I have been faithful to my girl all the way back to Janes WWII fighters and EAW.

Eldon45
05-28-2005, 06:26 PM
When I was about 10 I read "THUNDERBOLT" by Robert Johnson (and Martin Caidin) multiple times and ever since I've been a jealous P-47 fan. I always thought of the P-47 as being the fullback who bore the brunt of the A/A fighting in Europe before the Mustang came in and reaped most of the popular credit because of its looks---which I'll grant are more immediately striking than the P-47's.

The Mustang surely was an awesome all-around machine and an ideal escort, but people in general don't seem to realize that the P-47 matched the P-51 stride-for-stride performance-wise in all its later developments. I recently read how many U.S. pilots in Korea were of the opinion that the P-47 would have been a better machine in that jet-age conflict than the P-51s which actually took part in it.

I had the luck to have two uncles who flew these planes in the Pacific theater. Both are now, unfortunately, deceased. One (my uncle Eldon) flew only the P-47 while my uncle Melville first flew the Thunderbolt then the Mustang. Once, while both were together at a family gathering, I asked them to compare the two planes. Eldon thought the "N" Thunderbolt was virtually invincible above 30,000 feet. Melville agreed, saying the Mustang could fly circles around the Thunderbolt below 25,000, whereas above 30,000 feet the P-47 really shone. He said it had a phenomenal rate of roll which enabled it to do tricks you'd never expect out of so big a fighter. He also said the "N" could turn better than earlier models, and also, of course, had blistering speed and dive-power. Eldon preferred (not surprisingly), the P-47, while Melville loved both airplanes and thought they complemented each other very well as part of the U.S.'s overall arsenal.

If only these two were alive today: I would ask them a hundred questions!

All that being said, my preferred American plane as modelled in IL-2 is...the P-39/P-63 family. Because they're easier to turn-fight with than both the P-51 and the P-47 and I'm too lazy and impatient to learn "boom and zoom."