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View Full Version : Nerf Conqs Sb FInally.



Baturai
07-02-2018, 11:21 AM
isnt it enough Already ?

Armosias
07-02-2018, 12:41 PM
Soon

Hormly
07-02-2018, 03:08 PM
It's coming

RenegadeTX2000
07-02-2018, 03:13 PM
Highlander about to beat conqueror 65-35 or worse as soon as they touch that Shield Bash.

Free wins for highlander around the globe.

Tyrjo
07-02-2018, 04:15 PM
Highlander about to beat conqueror 65-35 or worse as soon as they touch that Shield Bash.

Free wins for highlander around the globe.

Conqueror deserves at least one bad match up...I think.

SB is just obnoxious right now.

Erhanninja
07-02-2018, 04:22 PM
I think the hero needs a nerf the most is HL offensive stance. Its ridicilious damage wise etc everything. Kick into grab is OP AF. I never seen anybody yet avoiding it because they see kick feint. Its impossible. Some heroes avoid is by dodge attack pure luck.

RenegadeTX2000
07-02-2018, 04:29 PM
I'm fine with everything about highlander except that forced loop and that's fighting against him as someone else...

If they just make it to where after landing baylors might RESETS the dang on fight. I'm fine tbh. but the ability to keep putting pressure after landing baylors might is where it gets ridiculous...

I can usually kill heroes in under 10 seconds no MATTER the skill level because of the loop. and i've also been killed in under 10 seconds because of that loop lmao...

Darkmight_cz
07-02-2018, 04:36 PM
I'm fine with everything about highlander except that forced loop and that's fighting against him as someone else...

If they just make it to where after landing baylors might RESETS the dang on fight. I'm fine tbh. but the ability to keep putting pressure after landing baylors might is where it gets ridiculous...

I can usually kill heroes in under 10 seconds no MATTER the skill level because of the loop. and i've also been killed in under 10 seconds because of that loop lmao...

This exactly 😉

Knight_Raime
07-02-2018, 04:53 PM
SB is fine outside of the fact that it continues to damage your stamina rather than pause it when you're OOS.

Oupyz
07-02-2018, 05:09 PM
SB Is Fine , loooooooooooooooooooool ok ^^

that sb is fine made me drop off my chair from laughing , thanks for the laugh Raime ^^

Oupyz
07-02-2018, 05:10 PM
SB Is Fine , loooooooooooooooooooool ok ^^

that sb is fine made me drop off my chair from laughing , thanks for the laugh Raime ^^

RenegadeTX2000
07-02-2018, 05:12 PM
that loop CARRIES the hell outta highlander players... They aren't even actually good with him. They just use him for that loop. Nothing else lol.

UbiInsulin
07-02-2018, 07:55 PM
We will continue to let the team know your feedback on Conq's Shield Bash. Here's what was said about Conq's future in the State of Balance Recap (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-325754-16/state-of-balance-season-5-recap) from a month ago:



Conqueror
Conqueror is currently a bit too strong in 1v1 but doesn’t shine that much in 4v4 as you will see later. We are considering some small nerfs in the future like the damage nerf we did on his light attack during patch 1.22.

Hormly
07-02-2018, 08:26 PM
We will continue to let the team know your feedback on Conq's Shield Bash. Here's what was said about Conq's future in the State of Balance Recap (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-325754-16/state-of-balance-season-5-recap) from a month ago:

All it needs is its recovery slowed a bit so that it can punished.

Fighting a conq as a wl is a total wash since I can't punish his sb. Same issue with the glad zone. He can literally use nothing but this move for the entirety of a fight and never lose

KSI_TheMadKing
07-02-2018, 08:54 PM
Just my own opinion make the shield Bash like the lawbringer shove. We're the light attack is not guaranteed. Because all you have to do in a duel is wait for someone to swing or dash. Shove them hit them once and then repeat the process till they are Dead.

Knight_Raime
07-03-2018, 02:59 AM
Just my own opinion make the shield Bash like the lawbringer shove. We're the light attack is not guaranteed. Because all you have to do in a duel is wait for someone to swing or dash. Shove them hit them once and then repeat the process till they are Dead.

Bash spam doesn't work against a lot of the heros in the game. Because most have answers to it.
all assassins sans pk and glad can delay their dash attack to beat it. PK can zone cancel it on reaction to his dash. and glad can zone it in the same fashion as pk since his starts with a bash.
Kensei can delay his dodge attack. Raider can dash GB on reaction due to being able to GB mid dodge. Highlander in offensive form can dodge and kick it on reaction. Nobushi can delay her hidden stance and CGB if he empty dodges for a GB. etc.

afaik the only heros who don't have an option and need to deal with it on prediction are LB, goki, warlord, and maybe valk.

EvoX.
07-03-2018, 05:32 AM
The stamina damage is fine. The speed of the move is fine. Being able to activate it 100ms in and as late as... however many ms is fine as well. The damage you get from it is more than fine.

What isn't fine is how safe it is. I'm completely unable to punish it with anyone that doesn't have a dodge attack, me and pretty much everyone else. Reacting to it is hard enough, not getting anything out of it on success is frustrating and unfair.

It needs a very slight nerf. I feel like it will get nerfed too hard and be made obsolete. While you're at it, nerf Warlord's stupid headbutt as well, it's pretty much the same as the SB without the varying timing.

Tyrjo
07-03-2018, 05:47 AM
The stamina damage is fine. The speed of the move is fine. Being able to activate it 100ms in and as late as... however many ms is fine as well. The damage you get from it is more than fine.

What isn't fine is how safe it is. I'm completely unable to punish it with anyone that doesn't have a dodge attack, me and pretty much everyone else. Reacting to it is hard enough, not getting anything out of it on success is frustrating and unfair.

It needs a very slight nerf. I feel like it will get nerfed too hard and be made obsolete. While you're at it, nerf Warlord's stupid headbutt as well, it's pretty much the same as the SB without the varying timing.

You start your post saying how fine SB is. HB has almost those same characteristics except the different timings. HB is like a shadow of the SB. It cannot be initiated by a side dodge. A miss, or if your opponent dodges it, means enough recovery frames for the WL to get guardbroken.

Nerfing a hero in the lowest tier is probably not the best solution either.

Keef739
07-03-2018, 07:14 AM
It feeds more revenge than any dodge attack in the game.

It does less damage than any dodge attack in the game.

Its among the riskiest dodge attacks in the game because it can be punished with GB.

The 50/50 with GB loses to lights, unless they aren't delaying for mind games, in which case you don't have to guess and you can just react.

And its his only gap closer.

The SB mid chain is basically safe and admittedly strong with wall bounce, but the rest of conqueror offense is laughable.

The SB soft feint from heavy is a relatively useless gimmick.

The reduction to 13 damage lights was enough to bring conqueror in line. The Shinobi 50/50 with kick and heavy-feint-GB is astronomically more powerful against the half of the roster that lacks dodge attacks.

Make a thread about something thats actually OP

Charmzzz
07-03-2018, 08:06 AM
It feeds more revenge than any dodge attack in the game.

It does less damage than any dodge attack in the game.

Its among the riskiest dodge attacks in the game because it can be punished with GB.

The 50/50 with GB loses to lights, unless they aren't delaying for mind games, in which case you don't have to guess and you can just react.

And its his only gap closer.

The SB mid chain is basically safe and admittedly strong with wall bounce, but the rest of conqueror offense is laughable.

The SB soft feint from heavy is a relatively useless gimmick.

The reduction to 13 damage lights was enough to bring conqueror in line. The Shinobi 50/50 with kick and heavy-feint-GB is astronomically more powerful against the half of the roster that lacks dodge attacks.

Make a thread about something thats actually OP

Yeah sure. Because Conq is completely fine he sits on a 60% Winrate in Duel which is the highest we have seen since they posted the Season Recaps... Hahaha, ahahaha, thanks for the laugh.

Erhanninja
07-03-2018, 10:09 AM
It feeds more revenge than any dodge attack in the game.

It does less damage than any dodge attack in the game.

Its among the riskiest dodge attacks in the game because it can be punished with GB.

The 50/50 with GB loses to lights, unless they aren't delaying for mind games, in which case you don't have to guess and you can just react.

And its his only gap closer.

The SB mid chain is basically safe and admittedly strong with wall bounce, but the rest of conqueror offense is laughable.

The SB soft feint from heavy is a relatively useless gimmick.

The reduction to 13 damage lights was enough to bring conqueror in line. The Shinobi 50/50 with kick and heavy-feint-GB is astronomically more powerful against the half of the roster that lacks dodge attacks.

Make a thread about something thats actually OP

Finally somebody understand how SB works. If you think itís OP pick Conq and try. You will see if itís OP or not. You will hardly land a SB on an assassin they will always dodge it with attack.

Or Warden always will outsmarts you. Warden can cancel vortex charge it GB from it. Gets guaranteed 2 lights from it. SB has none of these options.

I will tell you what is OP. HL kick into grab is OP. HL stunlock is OP. Kensei instant zone with HA is OP. Shugoki headbutt making me 10 second out of combat is OP. WL headbutt is OP. Shaman pounce into guaranteed 2 lights is OP. Shaman Throw into further throw by headbutt is OP. Gods sake Zerk is all around OP. Orochi light spam is OP.

Everybody is crying about SB being too fast. but I donít see anybody crying about WL headbutt. Isnít it faster?

So you want to punish SB? Sure. Can you punish Cent Kick or Nobu Kick or Shinobi Kick? If you can punish those attacks you can punish SB too. Shinobi has massive versatility compared to SB. You canít punish every move with every hero in this game. We all know this.

Conq does peanut damage compared to other heroes. Also about duel win rate I believe feats are off at duel matches so SB doesnít do damage?

Charmzzz
07-03-2018, 10:36 AM
Finally somebody understand how SB works. If you think it’s OP pick Conq and try. You will see if it’s OP or not. You will hardly land a SB on an assassin they will always dodge it with attack.

Or Warden always will outsmarts you. Warden can cancel vortex charge it GB from it. Gets guaranteed 2 lights from it. SB has none of these options.

I will tell you what is OP. HL kick into grab is OP. HL stunlock is OP. Kensei instant zone with HA is OP. Shugoki headbutt making me 10 second out of combat is OP. WL headbutt is OP. Shaman pounce into guaranteed 2 lights is OP. Shaman Throw into further throw by headbutt is OP. Gods sake Zerk is all around OP. Orochi light spam is OP.

Everybody is crying about SB being too fast. but I don’t see anybody crying about WL headbutt. Isn’t it faster?

So you want to punish SB? Sure. Can you punish Cent Kick or Nobu Kick or Shinobi Kick? If you can punish those attacks you can punish SB too. Shinobi has massive versatility compared to SB. You can’t punish every move with every hero in this game. We all know this.

Conq does peanut damage compared to other heroes. Also about duel win rate I believe feats are off at duel matches so SB doesn’t do damage?

You show again how little your knowledge about the mechanics is. Sorry to say it that harsh...

Conq has a 60% Duel Winrate cause of SB, this move alone is stronger than any other move in the game right now. It is 500ms, delayable, and is the move being closest to a real 50:50. It is chainable and can be used to trick someone into a dodge - GB. It keeps opponents OOS until they are dead. It is unpunishable by most heroes.

Now let's compare your examples:
- Warden SB: 700ms, can be easily shut down with a Light (Conq SB 500ms - good luck with that prediction)
- WL Headbutt: cannot be delayed, so when you see the startup you can dodge and punish it with a GB (Conq SB on dodge is not punishable with a GB)
- HL Kick into Throw: HL has to go to OF first (Conq can do his move from neutral), then you can dodge Kick/Throw on reaction and punish HL (again, 700ms move compared to a 500ms)
- Shaman Pounce - that one is too strong, I agree, and there are lots of Threads about it

Look here next time before you use wrong arguments: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970

Entry_Error
07-03-2018, 02:41 PM
I agree partially. It is unfair when you are OOS. When you have stamina however, Double-Dash to avoid it. (Double-Tap A Button). This will cause the HL to animate a GB cancel backwards (like a failed GB). You lose like 50 stamina for this, no matter the hero, so that sucks. But it does reset the fight, and usually confuse the HL for a moment while you get your bearings. Hope this helps.

Hormly
07-03-2018, 03:44 PM
I agree partially. It is unfair when you are OOS. When you have stamina however, Double-Dash to avoid it. (Double-Tap A Button). This will cause the HL to animate a GB cancel backwards (like a failed GB). You lose like 50 stamina for this, no matter the hero, so that sucks. But it does reset the fight, and usually confuse the HL for a moment while you get your bearings. Hope this helps.

Oh my...

Knight_Raime
07-03-2018, 04:37 PM
You show again how little your knowledge about the mechanics is. Sorry to say it that harsh...

Conq has a 60% Duel Winrate cause of SB, this move alone is stronger than any other move in the game right now. It is 500ms, delayable, and is the move being closest to a real 50:50. It is chainable and can be used to trick someone into a dodge - GB. It keeps opponents OOS until they are dead. It is unpunishable by most heroes.

Now let's compare your examples:
- Warden SB: 700ms, can be easily shut down with a Light (Conq SB 500ms - good luck with that prediction)
- WL Headbutt: cannot be delayed, so when you see the startup you can dodge and punish it with a GB (Conq SB on dodge is not punishable with a GB)
- HL Kick into Throw: HL has to go to OF first (Conq can do his move from neutral), then you can dodge Kick/Throw on reaction and punish HL (again, 700ms move compared to a 500ms)
- Shaman Pounce - that one is too strong, I agree, and there are lots of Threads about it

Look here next time before you use wrong arguments: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970

-vomits-

Wish people wouldn't throw around win rate like it's a god that dictates everything. This was my exact fear when they started giving this info. Because it's one step closer to the devs trying to force a 50% W/L ratio on heros. and it's that attitude that's ruined other hero based games in the past.
ANYWAY lets get on topic.

"closest thing to a 50/50..." 50/50 implies The opponent is doing something that requires two seperate actions to counter either thing. Rolling beats all. "50/50" only comes into play for some mix ups when you're out of stamina. Since you can't roll away. So stating this while not including the OOS part just means you're fluffling your argument.

"warden's SB can be shut down with a light." Yes it can. If you're good at predicting and he decides to commit to it. If you're attempting to do it on reaction you're reacting to the dodge and not the start up of SB when you first see the orange. Because you do not have the time from orange to when he lets it fly to throw a 500ms light and have it connect. It would be a better argment to state that you can just dodge late to avoid SB on reaction.

"WL headbutt can't be delayed so you can punish it with a GB on start up." Only if you predict. Freeze does a video on this if you can't take my word for it. His headbutt isn't reactable now that everyone has a 600ms dodge. At least you can't react GB (raider not included obv.) However headbutt can be punished on reaction if you have a dodge attack.

"HL kick into throw has to go into OF first.." Isn't really a talking point when a backwards walking light with highlander is an option select. You cannot react to his kick throw mix up. You late dodge into a roll to avoid it. Or you have a dodge attack that trumps the mix up (pk/glad excluded.) otherwise at best you're doing a backwards light yourself (LB and goki excluded) if you want to react punish it.

EvoX.
07-03-2018, 05:45 PM
Oh my...

His post goes perfectly for the Conqueror's SB as well, doesn't matter that he incidentally talked about Highlander.

I find it interesting how you're here complaining about Conq while Warlord is 10 times dumber and more exploitable. Have you seen what a Warlord player does if he really wants to win, and how higher level 1v1's with Warlord look? Nausea inducing.


His headbutt isn't reactable now that everyone has a 600ms dodge. At least you can't react GB (raider not included obv.)

Exactly, so why is only Conq getting complained about?


...SB is the move being closest to a real 50:50.

It's nowhere near close to a 50/50. You can react to both the SB and the GB, one with a dodge, the other with a roll while still in the dodge. That beats out the move and all its various timings completely.

Knight_Raime
07-03-2018, 05:52 PM
His post goes perfectly for the Conqueror's SB as well, doesn't matter that he incidentally talked about Highlander.

I find it interesting how you're here complaining about Conq while Warlord is 10 times dumber and more exploitable. Have you seen what a Warlord player does if he really wants to win, and how higher level 1v1's with Warlord look? Nausea inducing.



Exactly, so why is only Conq getting complained about?



It's nowhere near close to a 50/50. You can react to both the SB and the GB, one with a dodge, the other with a roll while still in the dodge. That beats out the move and all its various timings completely.

Because conq is meta.

TatoRezo
07-03-2018, 06:35 PM
You show again how little your knowledge about the mechanics is. Sorry to say it that harsh...

Conq has a 60% Duel Winrate cause of SB, this move alone is stronger than any other move in the game right now. It is 500ms, delayable, and is the move being closest to a real 50:50. It is chainable and can be used to trick someone into a dodge - GB. It keeps opponents OOS until they are dead. It is unpunishable by most heroes.

Now let's compare your examples:
- Warden SB: 700ms, can be easily shut down with a Light (Conq SB 500ms - good luck with that prediction)
- WL Headbutt: cannot be delayed, so when you see the startup you can dodge and punish it with a GB (Conq SB on dodge is not punishable with a GB)
- HL Kick into Throw: HL has to go to OF first (Conq can do his move from neutral), then you can dodge Kick/Throw on reaction and punish HL (again, 700ms move compared to a 500ms)
- Shaman Pounce - that one is too strong, I agree, and there are lots of Threads about it

Look here next time before you use wrong arguments: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970

Dude no, you can light interrupt when the Conqueror delays his Shieldbash, otherwise if it's raw you can dodge on reaction and most of the cast can punish.
And pls don't say that about HL OF like it takes a while and much skill to go in the OF.


Honestly other characters have same tools and they don't have 60% winrate. The thing is that it's not the bash that makes him strong vs pros, it's his other skills.

Armosias
07-03-2018, 09:10 PM
Let's be honest, if to counter a move you must roll, this is everything but balanced.

Hormly
07-03-2018, 11:14 PM
Let's be honest, if to counter a move you must roll, this is everything but balanced.

It's weird that after a year this still needs to be explained to people.

David_gorda
07-04-2018, 12:30 AM
I think conq is pretty balanced and its not That hard to counter the SB. He is good in 1vs1 but doesnt really Contribute much in group fights.

Arekonator
07-04-2018, 12:46 AM
I think conq is pretty balanced and its not That hard to counter the SB. He is good in 1vs1 but doesnt really Contribute much in group fights.

If its easy, hard or impossible to counter the SB depends entirely on your character. In teamfights he shuts down zones and other attacks with large hitboxes with his fullblock.

David_gorda
07-04-2018, 01:09 AM
If its easy, hard or impossible to counter the SB depends entirely on your character. In teamfights he shuts down zones and other attacks with large hitboxes with his fullblock. Yep he has good and bad matchups, good at Holding a point but is slow and not many good ganking tools which makes him okish in 4vs4.

Charmzzz
07-04-2018, 08:08 AM
Yep he has good and bad matchups, good at Holding a point but is slow and not many good ganking tools which makes him okish in 4vs4.

Running Shield Bash is not a good ganking move? Charged Heavy Unblockable is not a good ganking move? SB is not a good ganking move? All of this forces reactions from the opponent or ends in getting hit from multiple targets.

David_gorda
07-04-2018, 09:08 AM
Running Shield Bash is not a good ganking move? Charged Heavy Unblockable is not a good ganking move? SB is not a good ganking move? All of this forces reactions from the opponent or ends in getting hit from multiple targets.
Running shield is only ok, bad tracking and misses alot and they are suchs short time on the ground so if you play with randoms on your team they probably wont hit the target,chargedd heavy takes time to setup compared to basicly Every other with an unblockable and is very telegraphed move so No its not a good ganking tool. If you played dominion as a conq you would understand how limited he is in 4vs 4 when it comes to group fights except his defence which is excellent.

Erhanninja
07-04-2018, 11:04 AM
Running SB fills enemy revenge meter massively. Most cases enemy will get revenge straight away. It used to give free heavy mind you. It has no tracking and very easy to miss if not going straight. On the other hand a Raider can grab me even thought arms nowhere near reaching me even if there 4 people between us yeah happened. I saw with my own eyes a WL can press running shield bash half way and when he gets close to the enemy it finds its way to the enemy homing changing direction 90 degrees. It will also catch you while rolling. Same with LB. Conq can never do those things.

Draining stamina while OOS isnít special to Conq. Its same with other heroes like Cent. You can still avoid Conq. Warden is worse.

Charged heavy isnít that strong. Itís free GB. HL Goki and Cent has better UB moves. I donít remember the values but I think HL UB heavy does more or same damage with charged heavy. Thatís a better ganking tool because Conq has to charge the attack.

Yes delayed SB is hard to deal with. But SB speed isnít the problem. You can watch it and GB it at the start or dodge attack. You canít be GBed during dodge attack.

If a person like me knows nothing about mechanics of this game as stated above can avoid it most of the time I think everybody can.

David_gorda
07-04-2018, 11:08 AM
Running SB fills enemy revenge meter massively. Most cases enemy will get revenge straight away. It used to give free heavy mind you. It has no tracking and very easy to miss if not going straight. On the other hand a Raider can grab me even thought arms nowhere near reaching me even if there 4 people between us yeah happened. I saw with my own eyes a WL can press running shield bash half way and when he gets close to the enemy it finds its way to the enemy homing changing direction 90 degrees. It will also catch you while rolling. Same with LB. Conq can never do those things.

Draining stamina while OOS isnít special to Conq. Its same with other heroes like Cent. You can still avoid Conq. Warden is worse.

Charged heavy isnít that strong. Itís free GB. HL Goki and Cent has better UB moves. I donít remember the values but I think HL UB heavy does more or same damage with charged heavy. Thatís a better ganking tool because Conq has to charge the attack.

Yes delayed SB is hard to deal with. But SB speed isnít the problem. You can watch it and GB it at the start or dodge attack. You canít be GBed during dodge attack.

If a person like me knows nothing about mechanics of this game as stated above can avoid it most of the time I think everybody can.
Yep Exactly spot on!

Armosias
07-04-2018, 12:11 PM
If a person like me knows nothing about mechanics of this game as stated above can avoid it most of the time I think everybody can.
You don't seem to get why they said this.. Honestly when you say you can't land a SB has Conq it actually means that you're having an issue with Conq not that Conq is not an issue. Also you stated that it was the same as a WL headbutt which is kinda incorrect as said by Charmzzz with numbers as backup. Yes this makes us feel like you truly don't understand the base mechanics of For Honor when you're to compare pre and post rework OG heroes just like you did, and let me guarantee you that Ledgelord and Ledgebringer moves are not going to stay as they are now.

Tyrjo
07-07-2018, 08:00 AM
If Conqs SB is "fine"...then Warlords headbutt should receive the same properties because he's in need of a buff.


No recovery frames on miss

Can be initiated from a side dodge

Can be initiated from a feinted heavy

Erhanninja
07-07-2018, 09:07 AM
If Conqs SB is "fine"...then Warlords headbutt should receive the same properties because he's in need of a buff.


No recovery frames on miss

Can be initiated from a side dodge

Can be initiated from a feinted heavy


Speed of the 2 moves arenít same. SB is initiated by dodging in a direction first. We could turn it around and say having SB without doing dodge first? You can do heavy feint I to headbutt. I appreciate it can be debatable having GB from dodging it.

RenegadeTX2000
07-07-2018, 09:36 AM
Lol. Main Conqueror in duels, I 2nd Berserker just in case... I main highlander/shaman in 4v4's. I'm good to go... all things covered, and i can sleep for eternity with no complaints.

RexXZ347
07-08-2018, 06:00 AM
I play on a ps4 fat using aramusha or centurion who doesn't have dodge attacks. It's hard to dodge his SB especially when they varies in time of executions. I played against a level 3 bot conqueror and it's hard to dodge it. I also noticed that when you are hit even by just a light attack and because of the reflex guard an SB is a sure land.

XJadeDragoonX
07-08-2018, 08:33 PM
I think the big issue with the shield bash is that it doesn't whiff. If you use wardens shoulder charge and miss, you go into a whiff animation. If you miss conq shield bash, it's like you didn't miss and just keep attacking. So if you dodge a shield bash and go for a gb, you get hit with a light.they should make it like shoulder bash and shield crush. You miss, you whiff and get grabbed. But to be fair, the centurion also has the same thing. Which is ******ed

RexXZ347
07-09-2018, 04:56 PM
I think the big issue with the shield bash is that it doesn't whiff. If you use wardens shoulder charge and miss, you go into a whiff animation. If you miss conq shield bash, it's like you didn't miss and just keep attacking. So if you dodge a shield bash and go for a gb, you get hit with a light.they should make it like shoulder bash and shield crush. You miss, you whiff and get grabbed. But to be fair, the centurion also has the same thing. Which is ******ed

I've been against a conqueror where his stamina got depleted when he does a SB but can still immediately pull a light nullifying my gb. That light should be very slow because it is under the OOS attack.