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View Full Version : Why does it seem ok to have only one playable 4v4 mode?



Alustar.
07-01-2018, 02:57 PM
Been a over a month now that I have noticed the community doesn't seem to give very much attention to other game modes besides dominion. I find this amusing for several reasons, number 1 being that with the amount of complaints over the forums that ganking is out of control, why would you continually try and go back to dominion? Second is that it seems like it's more popular at lower rep levels than higher ones. Lastly is that I could sit in a group of 3 players waiting for a queue to pop, meaning we only have to find 2 more players at minimum to start a match, but even then the matchmaking can't find any!

I feel you need to start providing more incentives to bring these other modes back up. Breach can't come fast enough, it's more my worry that the players who are keeping dominion locked in as the top game mode are not going to respond well to the new changes coming. Honestly I'd rather see dominion just removed from the matchmaking all together. It's a horribly outdated style of mode that has no business in For Honor in it's current state. You have a very intricate fighting game here, and you bog it down with FPS style modes which aren't conducive to the competitive scene you keep saying you want to foster.

If you do wish to keep dominion, you should at least consider changing it's delivery. First you should change get rid of the contribution to the overall score by killing. This isn't skirmish, and part of the reason deathballs are a big thing is because it's easier to farm kills to win than it is to focus the objectives. Next you should make capturing a zone a more active process for a player. Maybe have some flag you need to position and/or keep held of to generate points. Anything would be better than just standing in a big red/blue box. Make the act of taking a zone impactful and meaningful. And that leads into the next one, a player should have to remain in that position. either in the zone or physically on the flag to generate points. I feel this is the most important one. Taking a zone should require that a player at minimum be out of combat to capture.

Another good idea for a new game mode would be Bodycount (or whatever?) The game mode is simple three spawning points on the map dish out NPCs that must be killed to harvest "trophies" from to take back to your post to offer up as proof of your prowess. (or some cliche there of) these trophies can be picked up by killing the one carrying them too, albeit at a fraction. Example: I take 3 trophies worth 30 points and get killed, the trophies dropped should be say -30%. The goal there is to give more of an incentive to farm your own, and use combat as a way to deny points rather than stack them. Also you should be able to steal trophies from the enemies main base, however to do so, the area around cannot be contested otherwise no points can be deposited or withdrawn.

Would love to see some more creative ideas for new game modes. I say lets show them that this game could be so much more if the devs decided to think outside of the box. I have always felt the one thing this game is missing to make it truly great is creative game modes. This is a ground breaking, one of a kind fighting game and it deserves to be treated as such. It's not right to slap just slap on game modes that have been done since the days of the N64 and think that's going to be acceptable. If you are going to change the paradigm, commit and follow through. Don't stop halfway on your journey and try and call it an adventure.

Tyrjo
07-01-2018, 04:16 PM
Dominion needs a rework for sure. I really dislike the game mode since there are so few fair fights in it. People complain about ganking like you say, but don't see it as a problem when they gank themselves. I think Elimination is one of the most fun 4v4 game modes, but almost no one plays it, I wish they increased the steel you got from it.

The_B0G_
07-01-2018, 05:23 PM
Elimination died because less skilled players die at the very start of the round and have to sit and watch the entire round. Not the best place to practice and learn.

Then you have fast characters who run from fights to get boosts...

The back and forth of Tribute is more annoying than exciting to me personally, you can dominate all round, and lose one fight near the end and lose the match.

I rather the ganking of dominion than playing any other mode. I do agree it needs to be redone though. Feats and point distribution.

Kryltic
07-01-2018, 05:40 PM
Your post was too long so I'll admit I didn't read it.

Tribute: If your team falls behind its pretty much clutch a win at the end by your opponents playing badly or you get steam rolled. The statues are still unbalanced in terms of placement and the bonuses they offer are not balanced either. The respawn times need to change depending on whether you're about to lose or win. This mode needs to fix its spawn times, its health recovery and feat bugs (eg Regenerate doesn't work) plus add a few of the smaller maps that could work.

Skirmish: Totally pointless as there's nothing much to it to make it unique and stand out. This should have been a huge map based mode with lots of bots etc and bigger teams... This mode needs to become a 3vs3vs3 or a 4vs4vs4 style game mode to survive now Breach is coming out. It should use only the largest of (new) maps that are only available to Skirmish, (possibly) Breach and Dominion. Otherwise it needs deleting.

Elimination: A nice game mode but also pointless, it starts out okay but quickly becomes a landslide as one team can very quickly gain a huge advantage. It needs separating from Skirmish but it also needs rebalancing. One of the issues are new players joining and replacing dead bots and fighting in the current round.

Dominion: Maps are too small. It needs a lot of new maps designed purely for Dominion, Breach and the new version of Skirmish. Smaller maps need removing. All points from killing players needs to be removed when looking at the breaking points. Limit needs to go to 1500. Maps needs more than 2 objectives and 1 minion point. 3-4 objectives and 1-2 minion points that also have captains either offensive or defensive) would make for a more interesting mode.

Personally I feel Breach will end up the way of Tribute which is a shame as Tribute can be pretty fun.

Alustar.
07-01-2018, 05:42 PM
It would be better to have all feats unlock at periodic intervals through the match, rather than based on kills and renown. So maybe the first feat a minute in, then two minutes after for each additional feat.

Vakris_One
07-01-2018, 10:41 PM
Dominion has essentially become the ONLY 4v4 mode in this game due to nobody playing anything else, which I find is ridiculous. Whoever heard of a PvP team based game that only has one mode for you to play as a 4v4? It's absolutely bonkers!

There are barely any orders for Elimination or Tribute. Every time I log in there's always an order or two for Dominion and none for Tribute or Elimination. Why? There are no events for Tribute anymore. The last two 4v4 events have been for Dominion. Why? Why are the developers actively pushing us towards Dominion? It's like they want a game with only one 4v4 mode.

And this community, who so eagerly complain about everything from ganking to the lack of objectives in Dominion and the overall sh/tness of Dominion. Where are you guys? Playing nothing but Dominion. Instead of starving the mode you want improved until it is genuinley improved, you flock to it in overwhelming numbers. Not a single person is playing Tribute - I can't even get a PvAI match without bringing another person with me beforehand. And yet when Ubi do make an event for Tribute all of a sudden that mode jumps to life and the order gets filled in less than 3 hours.

I dare say the developers are hopeless at incentivising people to play Tribute and the community in general seems to be content with playing one single 4v4 mode over and over and over again like lemmings jumping off a cliff.

Here are my suggestion:
1) Delete both Skirmish and Elimination and replace them with Carousel of Death.

2) Increase XP and steel rewards for Tribute so that it offers the highest rewards in the game.

3) Rebalance all feats. No more one hit kills.

4) Drastically lower the renown gain for killing players in Dominion and up the renown gain for defending points to x4 instead of x2. Only that will make Dominion a decent mode and not just a glorified reskin of Skirmish.

4) Make more orders and event orders for Tribute.

And voila! Watch the player numbers soar for Tribute. Dominion won't be such a cluster fudge. And Carousel of Death can be alterated with Dance of Death every 2 weeks just to keep things fresh.

All I have to say is that if I cannot find enough players to play Breach a month after its release then I am finally done with this game. No way in hell am I tolerating Dominion any longer.

Alustar.
07-01-2018, 10:50 PM
I have to agree with you there, breach is the one thing keeping me held on, and I'm worried it won't be enough. :/

UbiInsulin
07-02-2018, 01:58 AM
If you do wish to keep dominion, you should at least consider changing it's delivery. First you should change get rid of the contribution to the overall score by killing. This isn't skirmish, and part of the reason deathballs are a big thing is because it's easier to farm kills to win than it is to focus the objectives. Next you should make capturing a zone a more active process for a player. Maybe have some flag you need to position and/or keep held of to generate points. Anything would be better than just standing in a big red/blue box. Make the act of taking a zone impactful and meaningful. And that leads into the next one, a player should have to remain in that position. either in the zone or physically on the flag to generate points. I feel this is the most important one. Taking a zone should require that a player at minimum be out of combat to capture.


This lines up really well with another thread I just responded to, actually. I'll make sure to pass on these suggested Dominion changes.

Mia.Nora
07-02-2018, 02:34 AM
Problem with just one being game mode is that; queue times are higher for other modes. And because we can not queue for more than one game mode at the same time, it only makes sense to queue for the mode that you know you can actually play.

Noone enjoys wasting 15 minutes on waiting screen for a 10 min game. I suggested combined queueing system MMOs use at April 2017 (not 2018). Mind you combined queue system also means bigger pool of players, leading much better MM results not to mention way shorter queue times for all modes.

More than a year ago, it was forwarded to team. But clearly matchmaking quality and queue times is not even on priority list.

Halvtand
07-02-2018, 01:04 PM
Problem with just one being game mode is that; queue times are higher for other modes. And because we can not queue for more than one game mode at the same time, it only makes sense to queue for the mode that you know you can actually play.

This is exactly right. If you want to play Tribute, Skirmish or Elimination you can't get a game going. Everyone else who wants to play this sees the "low activity" indicator and instead hops into Dominion where the activity is higher. It's not that people wants to play only dominion, but they are forced to do so unless they lower their standards for fun and play against bots. Even then, as OP states, getting a game can be hard.

SpaceJim12
07-02-2018, 02:42 PM
Well, I play Dominion cause for me it's only close to medieval fight. I really hope Breach will replace this gamemode.
When I think about For Honor, the only thing I can imagine is brutal sword/axe/katana fight in some area with strategic zones. Yes, Dominion is very not ok now. But I see no real mode to replace it now.

Han-Singular
07-02-2018, 05:07 PM
Well letís break it down.

Why is dominion the highest pop imo.

1. Duels

I think duels are the best test of skill. People find duels stressful, feel characters are unbalanced or just donít like 1v1. Or turtles, the best offense is a good defense(meh turtles donít bother me).

Not enough xp. Canít play with friends

2. Deathmatch

Elimination is the only reason to play deathmatch. The problem is the buffs/gear score/feats/revenge/revive. It should be a larger scale duel with not enhancements.

Skirmish.....enough said.

Not enough xp. Can play with friends but itís limited.

3. Tribute

Has no place in For Honor and is by far the worst, Iíll always take skirmish over tribute. Gods? For Honor doesnít need Godís..... The riddle of steel is all that should matter.

Can play with friends, not enough xp, boring gameplay.

4. Dominion

This is the only game mode that actually feels like a war or battle in For Honor. All the others are situational. It also gives the most xp compared to any other game mode.

Personally I have no problem with ganking in this game. Itís part of the game, there are tools in place to help you survive. If youíre caught alone or out of position then prepare for a rough fight or a meeting with death itself.

That being said, dominion is plagued by murderballs at the moment, the newest change to revenge has helped with this somewhat. I feel this could be fixed by increasing the friendly fire damage up to 70-80%.

Make it more of a risk to try and help a teammate or to keep teammates from just doing haymaker swings and hitting everyone around them including their teammates, potentially cause their own teammates demise. (Nothing worse than having a teammates attack unbalance you and the enemy kills you because of it).

Sure, increased friendly fire wonít stop those brain dead newbs who think itís funny to run into a fight with raider and just start throwing areas. If you want to gank/ helpout, please stop using any other attack than top attack if your not targeted.

To the OP, itís not that this game has only 1 playable 4v4 mode, itís just the pros and cons between the game modes cause dominion to have the highest pop.

Honestly they should just get rid of most the game modes and narrow it down to say 3, 4 with Breach and stop spreading an already thin populace down.

HazelrahFirefly
07-02-2018, 05:34 PM
You want to play with your friends? That means you have to play Dominion, simple as that. It's a system that can't really be broken at this point.

Btw, a reason I dont play the other modes is that they are also full of ganking. It's hard to even get a Brawl that doesn't quickly devolve.

I genuinely feel that the maps should be edited so that sections are segmented off. In Brawl and Elimination both you should be held in an area until the other fights conclude. Then barriers drop and you commence the next stage of the fight. In Elimination all players should be healed as well. Oh, and get rid of the stupid powerups - they have no place.

For Skirmish I dont think the mode can be saved outside of the following: instant respawns. If you die it is always literally one second until you come back, and not somewhere on the map, but near the fight to help your pals immediately. Much quicker games and likely terrible more fun. Oh, and again, no stupid powerups.

bananaflow2017
07-03-2018, 11:54 AM
I think dominion will still be the mode of choice for most people.
When i see people complaining about the watchtower ballista, i dont want to think about breach.
Dominion is the mode that feels like a war most likely. Also there are no boosts. Boosts are annoying for many players anyway. Another reason they dont play skirmsh or eliminiation....