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View Full Version : POLL: Do we want a LINUX version of IL2?



XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 10:41 PM
I for one would be more than happy with a LINUX version of IL2. What do people think?

By the way, sorry to get your hopes up, but it would be too complicated to port IL2 to LINUX. Too many differences in the OS setup.

Is anyone willing to try tho???? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

NewS.


Founder member (currently the only member!) of the Unofficial Hurricane Fan Club.

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 10:41 PM
I for one would be more than happy with a LINUX version of IL2. What do people think?

By the way, sorry to get your hopes up, but it would be too complicated to port IL2 to LINUX. Too many differences in the OS setup.

Is anyone willing to try tho???? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

NewS.


Founder member (currently the only member!) of the Unofficial Hurricane Fan Club.

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 10:58 PM
It's not going to happen.

You won't see any DOS or Mac versions either.

Dream on!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 10:59 PM
in before (i do not know what you are talking about) the something /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 11:01 PM
Would be lovely...better chance getting the winex folks to support it.

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 11:03 PM
winex?, is that a cream you rub on in wintertime?

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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 11:11 PM
Maybe not the game but a serverversion. Linux And BSD are better at windows at hauling packets.


--
"Too late ... No time."
Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on the outskirts of Paris.

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 11:13 PM
I dont run Linux so I don't really care whether its there or not. However, the more the merrier /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

--
Ciao Meow!

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XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 11:17 PM
Newshielder wrote:
- I for one would be more than happy with a LINUX
- version of IL2. What do people think?

I think I would have no need to run windows any more. IL2/FB are the only games I play on windows, so a port would allow me to never reboot again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

- By the way, sorry to get your hopes up, but it would
- be too complicated to port IL2 to LINUX. Too many
- differences in the OS setup.

I don't think you are correct. Java is portable. I really think a port would be quite easy to do.



***************************************
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Now you are all happy.
***************************************

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 11:27 PM
fromsweden wrote:
- Maybe not the game but a serverversion. Linux And
- BSD are better at windows at hauling packets.


Maybe Win9x, but considering NT uses a TCP/IP stack very much like BSD's (actually I think they used that very stack or a model of that stack), that is not correct assesment.



And yes, just what Maddox should be waisting their time on, porting a niche game to an even more niche operating system that 98% of the time runs on the same Hardware as Windows does. That would be 50x as counterproductive as porting it to something like MacOS where'd you'd at least be making an appeal to a different (albiet a small) hardware demographic.


.

Zayets
06-14-2003, 11:31 PM
I want it on Linuz , but it will never happen. Is not 1C selling the game , but UBI. They will definitely object in "wasting" the time for a port to a real OS instead of doing some japanese planes that can be included in an addon for the eastern front.A paid one , hehehehe. Let's hope wine will improve in the future a lot! then bye bye windoze on my machine.

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http://www.emicad.nl/~justdoit/il2/logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 11:32 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
-
- Newshielder wrote:
-- I for one would be more than happy with a LINUX
-- version of IL2. What do people think?
-
- I think I would have no need to run windows any
- more. IL2/FB are the only games I play on windows,
- so a port would allow me to never reboot again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-- By the way, sorry to get your hopes up, but it would
-- be too complicated to port IL2 to LINUX. Too many
-- differences in the OS setup.
-
- I don't think you are correct. Java is portable. I
- really think a port would be quite easy to do.
-


IIRC, only the 'Loading' screens and such are written in Java, and I believe they are compiled into binary format. If you wrote anything remotely like IL2 in Java in bytecode form, you'd have one slow hopeless mess on your hands.

.

Zayets
06-14-2003, 11:35 PM
JFW wrote:
- IIRC, only the 'Loading' screens and such are
- written in Java, and I believe they are compiled
- into binary format. If you wrote anything remotely
- like IL2 in Java in bytecode form, you'd have one
- slow hopeless mess on your hands.

I think FMB is also writen in java. Switch from DirectX to OpenGL and you will see that the LnF is changing. I don't think they are compiled into binary but I believe they are using native libraries on windoze and this it will make it more difficult to port.

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http://www.emicad.nl/~justdoit/il2/logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 11:39 PM
JFW wrote:
-
- BaldieJr wrote:
--
-- Newshielder wrote:
--- I for one would be more than happy with a LINUX
--- version of IL2. What do people think?
--
-- I think I would have no need to run windows any
-- more. IL2/FB are the only games I play on windows,
-- so a port would allow me to never reboot again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
--
--- By the way, sorry to get your hopes up, but it would
--- be too complicated to port IL2 to LINUX. Too many
--- differences in the OS setup.
--
-- I don't think you are correct. Java is portable. I
-- really think a port would be quite easy to do.
--
-
-
- IIRC, only the 'Loading' screens and such are
- written in Java, and I believe they are compiled
- into binary format. If you wrote anything remotely
- like IL2 in Java in bytecode form, you'd have one
- slow hopeless mess on your hands.
-

I didnt write it, and dont care to disassmble it, but you may have noticed the java dlls that are floating around the net: they improve rendering performance as well as sound performance. Draw your own conclusions.

To the other point (other post): it would not take very long for 1C:Maddox to recompile. Niche OS or no, a recompile hardly constitutes 'effort'.




***************************************
You favorite airplane here.
Now you are all happy.
***************************************

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 11:45 PM
-
- To the other point (other post): it would not take
- very long for 1C:Maddox to recompile. Niche OS or
- no, a recompile hardly constitutes 'effort'.
-
-

Yet you are assuming that the whole thing was either written in Java or Ansi C.



.

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 11:50 PM
JFW wrote:
-
--
-- To the other point (other post): it would not take
-- very long for 1C:Maddox to recompile. Niche OS or
-- no, a recompile hardly constitutes 'effort'.
--
--
-
- Yet you are assuming that the whole thing was either
- written in Java or Ansi C.


My bet is on C++./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 12:19 AM
Most of the game is written in C++. If I recall correctly, after a month or two of constantly bumping a question about the primarly language used to code the game, Oleg finally responded that most of the was C++, just like every other program on the market.

A linux port might be worth thinking about, even if they don't do it just yet. Microsoft has been doing a number of questional things lately, and depending on how some of their current innitiatives are recieved, there could be a signifigant break from Windows. However, leaving users may or may not go to Linux. Really, Windows is set to dominate the market, until MS drives its users away.

Harry Voyager

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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 12:38 AM
HarryVoyager wrote:
- Most of the game is written in C++. If I recall
- correctly, after a month or two of constantly
- bumping a question about the primarly language used
- to code the game, Oleg finally responded that most
- of the was C++, just like every other program on the
- market.
-


That settles that discussion.

I'd still love a port. Not that I feel the need to start a holy war over it or anything, I just think it would be nice to have the option of playing on a unix-variant.

***************************************
You favorite airplane here.
Now you are all happy.
***************************************

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 12:39 AM
give me linux port my il2 has been crashing lots in windoze, not jus crashing it reboots my whole machine without warning direct crappy x or open gl it dont matter.

Dunno how hard a port could be, its got open gl which linux uses mosty c++ with a bit of java, i jus doubt anyone at IC would be willing to do it.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 01:49 AM
A server-version for Linux would be fine enough.
This would make some excellent dedicated servers !!

BTW: I would guess its Java (look into the bin-directory) AND C++ /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
But maybe the "hotspot" Virtual Machine is not available for Linux ?!

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 02:21 AM
weasel75 wrote:
- A server-version for Linux would be fine enough.
- This would make some excellent dedicated servers !!

Yup, Look at all good it did for Counterstrike. A dedicated server version i linux could handle big games with 16 pilots without trouble.

Dedicated counterstrikeserver for linux did really improve the gaming community for counterstrike.

- BTW: I would guess its Java (look into the
- bin-directory) AND C++ /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
- But maybe the "hotspot" Virtual Machine is not
- available for Linux ?!

Yup, Both java and c++ is used as I have understod.

--
"Too late ... No time."
Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on the outskirts of Paris.

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 02:22 AM
has anybody even tried to run Il2 with wine or winex?
apparently, BF 1942 does work.

you'd need a monster machine for that experiment, though.

<center>Another BlitzPig</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 06:38 AM
SFS secure file system would be cracked in a week

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter


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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 07:41 AM
Well...Could be cool to have a combat sim of the IL2/FB caliber for the open source planform if somebody finds/ codes/ develops a good emulator for windows that works in an independent cluster with autonomous directx or openGL and can handle C++ this could be the mother lode for the hardcore simmer, so far some games have been written for the Linux planform, on january there was an award contest to determine the best games for Linux, you can see it on here:

http://happypenguin.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=549

for starters there are some good ones, here is the detail:

We're proud to present the results of what might be the first ever attempt by Linux gamers to honor their favorite games. In this first iteration of the Happypenguin Awards, 4417 votes were cast for 281 games and libraries in 25 different categories. The voting forum was visted 39479 times. Below are the 25 winners selected by you, the Linux gaming community. Thank you to everyone who participated, and congratulations to the winners!

Free Games
Best Free Game - Frozen Bubble

Best Free 3D Action Game - Cube

Best Free Arcade Game - Frozen Bubble

Best Free Cards/Board/Gambling Game - PySol

Best Free Multiplayer Action Game - BZFlag

Best Free Multiplayer Strategy Game - Freeciv

Best Free Role-Playing Game - NetHack: Falcon's Eye

Best Free Simulation Game - Flight Gear

Best Free Single Player Strategy Game - Freeciv


Non-Free Games
Best Non-Free Game - Quake 3 Arena

Best Non-Free 3D Action Game - Return To Castle Wolfenstein

Best Non-Free Arcade Game - Space Tripper

Best Non-Free Cards/Board/Gambling Game - Eric's Ultimate Solitaire

Best Non-Free Multiplayer Action Game - Quake 3 Arena

Best Non-Free Multiplayer Strategy Game - Heroes of Might and Magic 3

Best Non-Free Role-Playing Game - Ultima I: A Legend Is Reborn

Best Non-Free Simulation Game - SimCity 3000 Unlimited

Best Non-Free Single Player Strategy Game - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


Miscellaneous Categories
Best Emulator - ScummVM

Best Game Support Library - SDL

Best Graphics - Unreal Tournament 2003

Best Sound/Music - Frozen Bubble

Best Toy - Celestia

Most Original/Unique Game - Liquid War

Most Promising Linux Game Project - Planeshift



Links:
The Nominations

The Votes



Because this was the first time we've attempted to organize something of this nature, there were some disagreements about categories and definitions, but overall we think it went quite well. In an attempt to make the next awards process go even smoother, we invite anyone with an opinion about the awards to voice it here in this forum. Next year, we'll be able to look back at the results and plan the Happypenguin Awards with some clear hindsight.





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A man and his Messerschmitt..its a beautiful thing
[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
<G>Visit http://www.aopa.org<G>
I love the Me 109 but... "Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"!! too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 08:25 AM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- SFS secure file system would be cracked in a week
-

Well I sure hope they'd change the name its name.

;-)

***************************************
You favorite airplane here.
Now you are all happy.
***************************************

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 08:50 AM
the new wolfenstein game enemy territory deserves to be on that list it has a linux client as well very easy to get going, no source code but it costs you nothing its a great game free from ID with a linux client.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 09:51 AM
JFW wrote:
- And yes, just what Maddox should be waisting their
- time on, porting a niche game to an even more niche
- operating system that 98% of the time runs on the
- same Hardware as Windows does. That would be 50x as
- counterproductive as porting it to something like
- MacOS where'd you'd at least be making an appeal to
- a different (albiet a small) hardware demographic.

Linux is becoming less niche (I am running it right now),
especially in South America and South East Asia and China.
China is a huge potential market (witness Rupert Murdoch
and his efforts to gain a foothold there, due to the
revenues to be tapped). It is a niche now, but it could
be a very important force on the desktop in those areas
in 5 years, when hopefully preemptible kernels will be
the norm (makes multimedia apps perform much better).
It's hard to predict, but it is certainly possible, and
if OpenGL is used as the core, and something like Java,
or Qt, used for the interfaces, and a compliant layer
such as SDL used for some of the multimedia aspects, there
is no reason why games cannot be developed in tandem for
Windows, Mac, and Linux. In fact it already happens.

The downside is that the Linux world is still rather
diverse, so given all the options for versions of
all the libraries and kernels that are possible, you
are likely to get more support calls for a Linux version
per copy shipped, than for Windows, unless all the
Linux versions are shipped to hackers who like to
fix their own problems. That would make me a little
nervous about porting to Linux. However the Linux
market, given the tech downturn, might get shaken
down to less players. It seems to be Debian, Mandrake,
RedHat, and Suse, in the Western World, now, plus
a few hangers on.

The other option is to wait for winex to improve,
or some other low-footprint, high-throughput compatibility
layer.

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 09:55 AM
BaldieJr wrote:
- To the other point (other post): it would not take
- very long for 1C:Maddox to recompile. Niche OS or
- no, a recompile hardly constitutes 'effort'.

This is only true if you wrote the code with OS
indepdence in mind. It is very easy to write C/C++
(which is what IL2/FB is probably written in) with
a particular OS in mind, and lock it into that OS
without quite a considerable effort. I talk from
experience as a programmer, and I've had to try and
convert code from just one UNIX flavour to another.

However, if the code is written with portability
in mind, it can be little more than a recompile
required.

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 10:01 AM
harryw wrote:
- has anybody even tried to run Il2 with wine or
- winex?


Yes. It won't run from an install made on a windows
box. I have FB installed in a location other than
C:\Program Files on windows, so no surprise there.

The installer for an install onto Linux
with winex 3 gives an 'error 1603, window installer
component not found' or something similar.

So far I've managed to get Fighter Squadron: Screaming
Demons over Europe to work, and Aces High (at 1 frame
per second!). Janes WW2F loads up, but I can't get
the mouse pointer to work to start a gane. EAW (1.2a)
loads and runs, but the frame rates are in the single
digits, and the textures are messed up. Warbirds III
installs, but I think I need to modify my desktop
bit depth to be able to get it to run.

I am not
convinced that the install of the latest Nvidia drivers
worked, as sax2 complained of some missing components
(this is on Suse 8.0) so that might explain some of the
issues (but not the FB installer). People report
decent frame rates on other games, so it suggests
my video drivers are badly installed.

I noticed that on Flight Gear when I tried it a while
back I got better frame rates in Linux when compared
to Windows.



Message Edited on 06/15/0309:04AM by AaronGT

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 03:24 PM
AaronGT wrote:
-
- BaldieJr wrote:
-- To the other point (other post): it would not take
-- very long for 1C:Maddox to recompile. Niche OS or
-- no, a recompile hardly constitutes 'effort'.
-
- This is only true if you wrote the code with OS
- indepdence in mind. It is very easy to write C/C++
- (which is what IL2/FB is probably written in) with
- a particular OS in mind, and lock it into that OS
- without quite a considerable effort. I talk from
- experience as a programmer, and I've had to try and
- convert code from just one UNIX flavour to another.
-
- However, if the code is written with portability
- in mind, it can be little more than a recompile
- required.
-


It's not like a conscience effort is making C++ code non-portable. Portability is just sometimes impossible. There is no built-in support in the language for something as necessary as capturing mouse events, for example. You'd have to re-write those portions of code no matter what you did. Some systems may lack something like a port of the Aux library for OpenGL itself (BeOS lacked this, for instance, not sure about the rest). And remember, IL2/FB runs in windowed mode as well, and to do that one must depend on platform specific API frameworks.

.

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 03:28 PM
not in the forseeable future.

<a href= target="_blank"

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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 04:02 PM
Would be nice... yes a FB on Linux would be real great.. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Still have no Linux running at my HD, but take a look at this...

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

you can download an ISO file for a full Linux on CD.. its working, detecting all hardware even all needed software is included... Openoffice 1.0.1 Gimp for Paintjobs, Mozilla for browsing.. its Starting from CD but,
st doesnÔ┬┤t changing anything at your HD, you delete the CD from your PC and your Windows is starting like everytime before.. amazing.. and if you like you have also the option to copy the CD system to your own HD... simply amazing stuff!! WOW!

JG53 PikAs Abbuzze
I./Gruppe

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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 05:03 PM
JFW wrote:
- It's not like a conscience effort is making C++ code
- non-portable. Portability is just sometimes
- impossible.

True, but as time goes on there are more and more
compatibility layers for this like capturing mouse
events (which is already handled for the java initial
interface of course). There would be concerns about
making sure that the compatibility layer API calls
remain constant, and bug free, of course.

- Some
- systems may lack something like a port of the Aux
- library for OpenGL itself (BeOS lacked this, for
- instance, not sure about the rest). And remember,
- IL2/FB runs in windowed mode as well, and to do that
- one must depend on platform specific API frameworks.

That's probably rather less of a problem I suspect.
For one thing almost noone actually runs it in a window.

I've not actually tried to write anything OS indepdendent
with a GUI using C++ as I've not needed a high performance
integrated GUI for the stuff I've done in the past -
Java using JNI to call a native C++ backend has been
all I've needed, and I've no desire to change that and
learn Qt, as java, beans, etc., work well for me.



Message Edited on 06/15/0304:08PM by AaronGT

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 06:28 PM
thanks AaronGT, you saved me the trouble to try it out with winex myself. i expected bad fps for those sims that work, but 1 FPS? whoa!
did you ever try out VMWare?


AaronGT wrote:
-
- I've not actually tried to write anything OS
- indepdendent
- with a GUI using C++ as I've not needed a high
- performance
- integrated GUI for the stuff I've done in the past -
- Java using JNI to call a native C++ backend has been
- all I've needed, and I've no desire to change that
- and
- learn Qt, as java, beans, etc., work well for me.
-

same here. we've got a codebase that compiles for Solaris, Linux and Windows NT, but the user interfaces are in Java, with a JNI bridge.

Oleg did it the same way.

i'd like to add that the envent handling in Il2/FB is also written in Java. that is clear from the occasional stack traces one gets when an uncaught Java exception occurs.


<center>Another BlitzPig</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 06:52 PM
Server version would be nice for any future flight sims, Unreal Tournement Server ran on our old box and was great, just leave em running.



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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 08:38 PM
harryw wrote:
- thanks AaronGT, you saved me the trouble to try it
- out with winex myself. i expected bad fps for those
- sims that work, but 1 FPS? whoa!

I had to reinstall ALL my OSes including Linux
a couple of weeks ago. I have a disk that I put
all the OSes on and Windows XP hibernation somehow
scribbled all over the partition tables, so I had
to reinstall from scratch.

My previous installation of winex (2.something)
gave me rather better frame rates on Aces High (which
was about the only thing I managed to install) -
something like 15 fps. This time round I tried
to install the latest Nvidia drivers, and I am not
convinced it went well as sax2 complains.

Also winex 3 isn't fully supported on SuSe 8.0,
and I haven't got as far as downloading it from
the CVS server and compiling it. So the frame rates
might go up, so don't take the 1 fps as a definitive
answer. Some people playing some other games have
reported higher frame rates than in Windows. (I wish
I knew how to do it, though!)

- did you ever try out VMWare?

I think in theory I have an evaluation on my SuSe 8.0
disks, but since the whole OS is emulated, I think it
would be slower than a good winex installation.

I'll have a go at installing Sim City (not reinstalled
that since my disk disaster) under winex and see how
that does. It might be easier on winex.

Some other non-game apps run well under winex.

- same here. we've got a codebase that compiles for
- Solaris, Linux and Windows NT, but the user
- interfaces are in Java, with a JNI bridge.

Sounds very very similar to what I do. Same Oses,
same method. Which C++ compilers are you using?
I have to check the latest branch of my C++ code
on Windows next week.

- i'd like to add that the envent handling in Il2/FB
- is also written in Java. that is clear from the
- occasional stack traces one gets when an uncaught
- Java exception occurs.

Ah - not seen that happen as yet.

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 10:25 AM
I reinstalled the Nvidia drivers. Now I get around 75 fps
in Aces High, which is pretty much what I get on Windows.
My joystick axes also worked straight off, but not all
the buttons (notably the POV hat didn't).

I'll try testing some of the other things that had graphical
corruption(e.g. EAW).