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View Full Version : [Chat] Default chat ... why isn't it ALL ?



The_Baron258
06-26-2018, 04:09 PM
Now before commenting - yes I head the argument its because of toxicity, however there is no logic behind this argument so I had to open a discussion about it !

I recently downloaded the game, a new comer to the game, however I am not new to Multiplayer games and have been playing them since the 90's. I am also aware and had been aware to Toxicity, it isn't a new thing and it is mostly related to failed score systems which doesn't reflect true skill but rather help to spread toxicity by emphasizing importnace of some roles over others. For example MOBA games such as this judge a 'Tank' player not by the amount of tanking he does but rather by the amount of he kills he gets, a good tank player can hold off 3 people on him way longer then others but still get lower score cause he didn't finish off people with his low damage which leads to people 'complaining about his preformance.

This means that if Toxicity is affluent in the game its in part (if not a large part) due to failures of the creators of the game!

Putting this little fact a side even if toxicity exists it still only part of the players that partake in it, which means that the general rule should apply to the behavior of the majority and not the minority, in this case the toxic players, however this is not the case ! Instead the system punishes the majority instead !

See the option to change the chat default isn't clear even with the notification in fact I tested it out on a couple of friends of mine - they had no clue why there was no chat and that you could change it I figured it out cause I am stubborn but the truth is that even if you change it , it doesn't matter - since the majority of the players don't know how to change it and there is no way to communicate with them !

As I said I am new to the game but I am already thinking about quitting and not because of the game mechanics , nope, its because the experience of playing is worse them playing a single player, cause at least with singleplayer the AI either is designed to help you specifically or that it is so predictable you can cooperate with it! In For Honor the experience is horrible cause your opponents can team up especially if they got lucky enough to have 2 people chatting ...

*Last part - muting toxic player works in other games easily , if a player has a problem he can chose to mute it is logical , however I have no choice to be able to communicate and chat with anyone on my team cause non of them know that there is a chat option in the game !

When there was the free promotion for this game I didn't understand whats wrong with it that it needs to be free in order to get more players ... now with the lacking chat and the horrible scoring system - I understand why

CandleInTheDark
06-26-2018, 04:35 PM
See, I am not so much buying that there is no clear indicator that chat can be changed. In the face of screen there are little indicators that say who you are able to chat to based on the options you both have, one of the hints while the game is loading says that the chat range can be extended by pressing f9 and default can be changed in the menu and before you go into game it tells you what the chat range is set as.

What I will give you though is that it takes some digging to find where the default range is.

From next thursday I believe it is chat default is going to be set to team which perhaps does nothing for those who only play duel but I do get why it would be that way, last thing you want is to not realise that anyone paying attention can see what you are strategising. Generally if I am going in alone I keep it there, if I am with a group, because we discord so are calling our plays, I change it to all.

The reason was indeed toxicity, the devs are putting in, with the default change the devs are putting in a toggleable (I believe) filter and the game will track when people hit that filter to use in conjunction with any reports sent in.

In regards to the score system, a tank gets bonus points for boosting zone and for saving allies, a vanguard for being in outnumbered fights and soldier kills (not 100% on the latter but pretty sure), an assassin for finishing fights 1v1 and for getting streaks of kills where they had the last hit, a hybrid evenly spread over all of these, not as much as any other at once but points higher for everything. Yes some people look at kills, but you can have many less and a higher score.

HazelrahFirefly
06-26-2018, 05:30 PM
I can't chat at all! No matter what buttons I press! O, X, even something that looks like a triangle!!! What gives, Ubi?!






I'm on PS4.

UbiJurassic
06-26-2018, 06:31 PM
See, I am not so much buying that there is no clear indicator that chat can be changed. In the face of screen there are little indicators that say who you are able to chat to based on the options you both have, one of the hints while the game is loading says that the chat range can be extended by pressing f9 and default can be changed in the menu and before you go into game it tells you what the chat range is set as.

What I will give you though is that it takes some digging to find where the default range is.

From next thursday I believe it is chat default is going to be set to team which perhaps does nothing for those who only play duel but I do get why it would be that way, last thing you want is to not realise that anyone paying attention can see what you are strategising. Generally if I am going in alone I keep it there, if I am with a group, because we discord so are calling our plays, I change it to all.

The reason was indeed toxicity, the devs are putting in, with the default change the devs are putting in a toggleable (I believe) filter and the game will track when people hit that filter to use in conjunction with any reports sent in.

In regards to the score system, a tank gets bonus points for boosting zone and for saving allies, a vanguard for being in outnumbered fights and soldier kills (not 100% on the latter but pretty sure), an assassin for finishing fights 1v1 and for getting streaks of kills where they had the last hit, a hybrid evenly spread over all of these, not as much as any other at once but points higher for everything. Yes some people look at kills, but you can have many less and a higher score.

You are indeed correct that the filter will be toggleable, but by default it will be enabled. .


I can't chat at all! No matter what buttons I press! O, X, even something that looks like a triangle!!! What gives, Ubi?!

I'm on PS4.

Text chat is a PC only function. Quick Chat is the only chat function available for console players.

HazelrahFirefly
06-26-2018, 07:22 PM
I know :p

I was just joking around.

The_Baron258
06-27-2018, 11:40 AM
@CandleInTheDark (https://forums.ubi.com/member.php/2250401-CandleInTheDark) a few points :

A) one I have been playing for a couple of weeks and I can see easily the disparity between points gained by assassins and those who receive extra for finishing of enemies and those who chose tanks and hybrids. 800 points against 400 is a large enough number to note that even with the note that you mentioned (and I read them in game when I started to play it) the game isn't well enough designed to hold up to what you say , not only that it does still focus on takedowns and not on captured zones, revivals and so on ... if anything a good tank will hold as much as he can for his assassin to come to finish the job and then get revived ... so even counting just kills and revivals would be a wrong way to create a score board !

B) there is plenty of ways to set up a UI ... not all of them are as effective as others ... go watch some different models of mobile phones and learn about the subject. The fact there is a UI for it doesn't mean it is effective / clear / understandable - and in this game it is not ...as I said I did a test run on some of my gaming friends and they didn't caught up on the chat system in game! not only that the one that I informed him about the chat seemed to be pissed off on the fact that each game you need to set it to all and that no one else does it. which again shows that even the 'digging' you mentioned isn't really accessible or clear enough for people to get to!

C) There is no reason to change the chat status if no one else is in the chat is there ? chatting to group when you don't have a group is just the same as chatting to all if no one has the chat function on all. So any argument you made is still countered by this ... the player who wants to chat is by default being discriminated in favor of the guy who didn't want to hear a 'specific' person/s ... there is no other way to describe it !

D) that why in For Honor just like any other game there is different keys for different chat functions ... T for all , Y for team and so on. use the right one and you won't share your strategies with everyone in game.

E) Yes I already wrote that the reason was toxicity and it doesn't make a change the logic still stands clear ... its illogical to turn a multiplayer based game to a communication less game ...

F) the fact that they change the chat default is good step in acknowledging they were wrong ... however going half way is not bright as someone other there might have thought, Heroes of the Storm already showed that making the game run only on team chat doesn't really save from toxicity - mute option is the best option nothing else needs to be added or changed. I guess people only change their ways after the damage is done (they only change it when they see the drop in player numbers) sad to know this fact and it sadder that even now its only half step in the right direction...

@UbiJurassic (https://forums.ubi.com/member.php/2134852-UbiJurassic) did you really just replied to a confessed troll (@HazelrahFirefly (https://forums.ubi.com/member.php/2411479-HazelrahFirefly)) and not the auther of this thread .... :( I am kinda speechless at the moment.

CandleInTheDark
06-27-2018, 03:08 PM
A. I have seen as many games where the assassins don't top score. Take my last one

https://i.imgur.com/GpPRPhZ.png

You can see that the top scorers for both teams were vanguards despite the fact that I had a KD of 5/5 as opposed to the KD of 6/2 of the orochi with some 100 points less than me or the other team's shaman on 7/5 and two more zones taken. I have seen plenty of games where the top scorer was the heavy that stayed on home point and held it the entire game or the vanguard or hybrid that spent most of their time in the soldier zone. Now if an assassin goes on a 10-0 run and gets the last hit in all of those ten, yes they are likely going to top score but it isn't a lock when everyone else plays to what earns them renown. Also if you look the warden on the opponent's team got more kills than me but only four points more, I spent more time taking down soldiers or boosting a point. This isn't a fluke thing, I have played since day one on xbox and more recently on PC. Now if your argument is the scoreboard shows only objectives taken, kills and deaths with than total score without taking into account permanent points gained through soldiers or boosts or other things like revives, yes they could do something about that.

B. Then they don't read the tooltips, if I go on a run of games most of them will tell me how to change my current chat range, they all tell me what my current chat range is. I only started playing on PC a couple of months ago, I had no reason to pay much attention to the tooltips, seen them all on xbox for a year, one of the first things I saw was how to change my chat. Again I give you they could make it easier but if your friends are the type who do not pay attention to the tooltips before games then that is on your friends not on the game itself.

C-E. Yeah I give you that one, why change it when no one else has? At the same time the devs had a good reason in changing it from all which is where it started if I recall to group. I played on xbox at that time, it took more effort to flame someone and I still got a lot of flame messages,anecdotally at the time it was a lot worse on PC and people were asking the devs to do something about it which they did. Now they have technology in place to police it more so they are changing it to what makes most sense for people playing team games which is where the larger population is. As you can see in the above screenshot I was on all, there were a few gg's and I had salt over an execution the opponent (with higher latency than me) claims to have blocked the last heavy of, in between games I have seen people flame each other, end of duels people have gone from group to all just to be toxic and then there is the favourite of people with swastika emblems shouting Nazi slogans, if the thought was we would rather people opt in to that rather than have to opt out then I see the reasoning.

F. There is a mute option as it stands if you go through scoreboard or the players in session screen before a game, also if you have all as default then there is a different team button as well as the capability to switch while in the chat dialogue box (I found this out after my initial post or I would have said so then, just so you don't think this is a gotcha). I am not trying to argue with you for the sake of arguing with you, just giving some background as someone who has been in game and on the forums from release and on the For Honor subreddit for around the last year. There were reasons for what they did at the time and it is easy to come in late on, without having seen those reasons, and criticise.

The_Baron258
06-28-2018, 03:18 AM
@CandleInTheDark (https://forums.ubi.com/member.php/2250401-CandleInTheDark)

a) Well sorry but one screen shot doesn't hold out much ground , I can set you up with plenty of screenshots with games after games where there isn't even 1 person who has chat set to all ... so the screenshot you gave me doesn't reflect any reality but rather reflects luck. Every game I had people in All chat I had joked around with them about the fact that its like finding a Unicorn and they all agreed .... hmmmm .... weird isn't it ? * the point stands ... its not only my friends who didn't see the tip or bother reading it (neither did I by the way, I started to dig on my own to find how to chat cause it bothered me) its the majority of the players.

b) As for the points , again ... I have seen games were an Assassin wasn't the top score , yes even I got a few times the top score as a vanguard even as a heavy you might get lucky ... however in most games this is not the case and in those games I did get top score it was because the start of the game 2 of my teammates were bots or the rest of the team didn't know what how to revive so surely they didn't get the concept of points in game. * The point I made stands - there is imbalance in scoring system and indicators of scores in scoring tab which you skipped on in your reply.

c) Regarding toxicity ... again ... that's why you got the report option or mute! Yes I had seen a guy with a swastika in his emblem and guess what it does bother me so you know what I did I reported him and if he would have blubbered racist **** I would have muted him and moved on. Point stands If a player is offended the system needs to allow him to deal with it personally not by muting the entire planet cause at the moment you might saved one guy the need to press the mute button with this 'genius' solution but at the same time you made sure that there is no reason to press F9 to change to ALL or go options and change the default chat ... cause you will be the only one doing it !


This is the problem , the conversation isn't about history , yes history might matter but all you are telling me is a story of how a small group of activists managed to push a company into a bad decision which cost the game in population. It isn't a great story and in fact it doesn't change the reality that the situation at the moment isn't glorious at all - I have a friend who already left the game cause he is frustrated with the lack of team coordination and communication and I am on the verge of doing the same ... hack he paid 60$ for it and I didn't pay and we are both in the same shoes for the same reason. I posted this thread cause I don't think the game is that bad and maybe its still savable. If you want to argue - bring logical arguments.

CandleInTheDark
06-28-2018, 05:23 AM
A) Ok so I wasn't trying to show that people set their chat to all with that screenshot, I mentioned I had later as a means of saying what came across the chat. Yes more people need to set their communication settings for team games, as of tomorrow it will be team by default so anyone set to group will have done so by choice, which is their choice. Thing is though people don't often have time to type in there, with randoms it is a matter of you'll have good games and bad games, if you have friends playing I would suggest that any time you can get in together, preferably with something like skype or discord running. Outside of that I do hope that the change coming tomorrow helps some.

B) Well yeah you have anecdotal evidence, I also have anecdotal evidence, as politely as I can say this and not trying to sound like a jerk, I have sixteen months of anecdotal evidence next to a few weeks. Yes assassins do top the charts, so do the other classes if they play to their role as opposed to going around as a deathball.

C) Again, it is changing tomorrow, I would see how that affects things, maybe one day the devs will go back to all now that they have the filters which people have to choose to turn off and they have something to track words that hit that filter alongside reports, at the same time though again given how toxic it was at that time and that they did not have the technology they have in now, I can't say I blame them for taking measures that reduced that. They had reasons, and hey personally I do think that if more people go with all then they will have people helping them in duel and will communicate between matches with others, I would greatly prefer that people do communicate more and that when devs are able to change the voice settings they had from the P2P model to one fitting dedicated servers, and text in the meantime now it will be set to team by default, that people do communicate because the more often deathballs are beaten by people rotating the zones and backing each other up where needed the less prevalent deathballs will be at my mmr, but the devs did what they had to do to react to the situation they had at the time.

And I do appreciate you like the game, I appreciate you are giving your view, I am not arguing with you to be a jerk, I was putting some context to the situation as you have found it as someone who has not only been around the length of time I have but has watched the dev streams and listened to the reasons the devs gave.

The_Baron258
06-28-2018, 11:36 AM
@CandleInTheDark (https://forums.ubi.com/member.php/2250401-CandleInTheDark) Well .... once it is changed will see how many people who don't play in a group (mind you its not the majority) will elect to change by their own choice the default chat mod to group. I got a gut feeling it will b a very limited number and I don't mind to bet on it - cause I always bet only on sure things !

I will still emphasize that by the end of the game the companies decision was a horrible one filters or no filters its up to the offended person to take action not the system (game company). The end result of their action was to restrict people who weren't offensive like me ... making me unable to communicate with anyone in game and making me suffer a horrendous experience :/.

As for your talk about death ball ... well I will give you that I am not much experienced and it seems like death ball is the most prevalent way of winning matches, hoping between points often leads to less resurrections less team work and most people think that in 1300-800 it still good to go capture points while your teammates are getting killed .... so yeah death ball is the way designed to be or not it doesn't matter and as long as it is the meta - the scoring system will show what I said and not what you say (cause even if one group didn't go death ball and the score will be more 'balanced' the one who did go death ball will win and get more points eventually)

VOIP would be great to have in this kind of game again games like Overwatch made clear that teams with VOIP win while those without usually lose - I am glad to hear they are working on it.

The_Baron258
06-28-2018, 02:44 PM
https://preview.ibb.co/nQDvPo/default_chat.png (https://ibb.co/kNkWx8)https://ibb.co/kNkWx8

https://ibb.co/kNkWx8Hmmm... my default chat didn't change , neither anyone else. so far its been like that in all the games I played since the patch.

The_Baron258
06-30-2018, 10:33 PM
LoL no comment ... 'it will be fixed on thursday' ... not

The_Baron258
07-04-2018, 10:47 AM
@CandleInTheDark (https://forums.ubi.com/member.php/2250401-CandleInTheDark) guess there is nothing to add and say when you are proven wrong :)