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Erhanninja
06-25-2018, 11:58 AM
Is there any way this can be improved?

I get GBíed easily in the start as well at the end of the SB if it misses. Somebody just needs to side step and itís a free GB. I think itís too much punishment for that.

If we look at similar moves like Cent kick or HL kick this is not the case.

Also it can be easily interrupted with light attacks. Heroes like Orochi just needs to throw a light and I canít so anything.

Armosias
06-25-2018, 12:14 PM
Cent kick is punished by a GB too and can only be done with a forward dodge.

Conq shield uppercut can be used from and dodge, during heavy prep phase, and after lights and heavies.

Conq also have superior block on dogde which guarantees the bash. Being hit out of it is a simple counter.

HazelrahFirefly
06-25-2018, 12:16 PM
OP...you're asking for a buff to one of, if not THE most powerful tool in the game.

It needs a slight nerf.

Erhanninja
06-25-2018, 12:29 PM
Cent kick is punished by a GB too and can only be done with a forward dodge.

Conq shield uppercut can be used from and dodge, during heavy prep phase, and after lights and heavies.

Conq also have superior block on dogde which guarantees the bash. Being hit out of it is a simple counter.

What do you mean? I thought shield uppercut can be used after blocking in FBS? You mean shield bash?

Armosias
06-25-2018, 12:34 PM
What do you mean? I thought shield uppercut can be used after blocking in FBS? You mean shield bash?
If I recall well bash from full block is now the same has every other. Only exception being sprinting SB. My memory can also be f**ked up tho

The_B0G_
06-25-2018, 01:13 PM
The conq 100% does not need any buff at all. He already has the highest win % in the game.

Charmzzz
06-25-2018, 01:24 PM
60% Duel Winrate in S5 - definitely needs a NERF on Shieldbash as it is the move being closest to a 50:50 in the game. Highest OOS pressure, FBS, fast Lights, 2 UB's from neutral, nice mixups and soft-feints, man, what do you need more!?

David_gorda
06-25-2018, 01:40 PM
I played alot Of conq after rework and the shieldbash is very strong and Definetly not need buffs, his zone attack is incredible aswell. Conq is really strong and dont need any buffs.

DrinkinMehStella
06-25-2018, 01:45 PM
his zone he messed up, its not the damage but how it can just be spammed until stamina drain and its really hard to get inside to parry.

Vakris_One
06-25-2018, 02:00 PM
Is there any way this can be improved?

I get GBíed easily in the start as well at the end of the SB if it misses. Somebody just needs to side step and itís a free GB. I think itís too much punishment for that.

If we look at similar moves like Cent kick or HL kick this is not the case.

Also it can be easily interrupted with light attacks. Heroes like Orochi just needs to throw a light and I canít so anything.
If anything Conq's SB needs a nerf. It is one of the most oppressive mind games in the game right now. Conq is the only character in the roster that can keep an opponent in OOS indefinitely just by using the delayed timings of shoulder bash and GB to play mind games that an OOS opponent has very little chance to escape. To add to that all the characters without a 500ms side dodge recovery cannot even punish his whiffed SB. There's a reason why he has an unprecendented 60% win rate in Duel in Season 5.

Cent kick and Highlander kick can be punished by everyone on a whiff. Conq's SB can only be punished by a select few until we get the normalised side dodge recoveries.

TatoRezo
06-25-2018, 03:20 PM
That's why there is heavy cancel into shieldbash, its 50/50 and a mindgame vs your opponent. If just light spam into shieldbash was unpunishable like that then it would be OP af. Now it's fine, if u see opponents doing that start a heavy and cancel that into a shieldbash or just finis hthe heavy

Baturai
06-25-2018, 03:36 PM
Make it not Delayable
Reduce Track/range
Not chainable into an Attack

sb is a anoying af.

HazelrahFirefly
06-25-2018, 03:49 PM
If anything Conq's SB needs a nerf. It is one of the most oppressive mind games in the game right now. Conq is the only character in the roster that can keep an opponent in OOS indefinitely just by using the delayed timings of shoulder bash and GB to play mind games that an OOS opponent has very little chance to escape. To add to that all the characters without a 500ms side dodge recovery cannot even punish his whiffed SB. There's a reason why he has an unprecendented 60% win rate in Duel in Season 5.

Cent kick and Highlander kick can be punished by everyone on a whiff. Conq's SB can only be punished by a select few until we get the normalised side dodge recoveries.

We dont even know that for sure ; ;

What if the normalization of side dodges makes it so no one can punish the SB??

Tyrjo
06-25-2018, 04:04 PM
SB needs a nerf if anything. It's simply too good right now. Add to that how extensive his kit it. Nerf.

Vakris_One
06-25-2018, 04:08 PM
We dont even know that for sure ; ;

What if the normalization of side dodges makes it so no one can punish the SB??
That might actually be what happens since side dodge recoveries will be normalised at 600ms, which is an indirect nerf to Aramusha for one since he had a 500ms recovery. I guess only characters with dodge attacks will be able to punish a whiffed Conq shield bash then.

I'm thinking they need to nerf Conq's shield bash recovery to compensate otherwise it will be the only move in the game that can't be punished for missing. Conq needs a serious look into by the devs quite soon before he gets a 70% win rate in Duels.

Armosias
06-25-2018, 05:22 PM
Just take away the ability to softfeint heavies into SB. We'll have to use Heavy into FB into SB and that'll cost a sh*t ton of stamina. But with the kit we have right now a nerf like this would be deserved.

UbiInsulin
06-25-2018, 07:55 PM
OP...you're asking for a buff to one of, if not THE most powerful tool in the game.

It needs a slight nerf.

This is what we've been telling the team based on what we've been reading here (that Conq's Shield Bash could use toning down), but obviously we're open to different opinions.

Charmzzz
06-26-2018, 08:35 AM
This is what we've been telling the team based on what we've been reading here (that Conq's Shield Bash could use toning down), but obviously we're open to different opinions.

Sorry to sound harsh, but obviously you did not read the Season 5 Recap. Conq @ 60% Winrate and you are open to different opinions? Must be joking. :)
Dev's nerfed PK hard because she had a 58% Winrate. Conq tops that and we are talking about opinions!?

Erhanninja
06-26-2018, 10:19 AM
Okay so how do you suggest toning down SB? Just make it forward SB no side dodge? I mean it can be guard broken at the start and at the end and also can be interrupted with light attack. It canít be cancelled like warden vortex or HL kick.

Only thing they added is soft feint to increase attacking capabilities. They took away combo stopping and free GB on heavy block. Same move since the start of the game and itís a problem now?

They say itís 50/50 but LB shove is also the same. I think HL kick into grab is worse move in this game. Yeah yeah there is no CGB or guard but how many times can catch those? In 4v4 thatís golden. Even if they try to catch just do side dodge into kick top heavy instant 40 damage easy. If against a wall instant death coz you canít dodge.

What about block on dodges? Yeah but itís same side plus you can still dodge the attack with a good timing. Itís blady shield hero at least let him have that. Even Kensei has block on dodge with slim blade and avoid 100 people during dodge. Valk and Warlord (I think) also can block on dodge.

Conq has no HA like other heavy heroes or even kensei or Zerk.

They also nerfed his zone. I believe assassins can parry it also any CC goes through. And there is gap for any heavy to go through after zone so itís not safe anymore.

They also removed heavy after shield bash.

They gave him more tools and also took quite few things away.

Charmzzz
06-26-2018, 10:38 AM
Okay so how do you suggest toning down SB? Just make it forward SB no side dodge? I mean it can be guard broken at the start and at the end and also can be interrupted with light attack. It can’t be cancelled like warden vortex or HL kick.

Only thing they added is soft feint to increase attacking capabilities. They took away combo stopping and free GB on heavy block. Same move since the start of the game and it’s a problem now?

They say it’s 50/50 but LB shove is also the same. I think HL kick into grab is worse move in this game. Yeah yeah there is no CGB or guard but how many times can catch those? In 4v4 that’s golden. Even if they try to catch just do side dodge into kick top heavy instant 40 damage easy. If against a wall instant death coz you can’t dodge.

What about block on dodges? Yeah but it’s same side plus you can still dodge the attack with a good timing. It’s blady shield hero at least let him have that. Even Kensei has block on dodge with slim blade and avoid 100 people during dodge. Valk and Warlord (I think) also can block on dodge.

Conq has no HA like other heavy heroes or even kensei or Zerk.

They also nerfed his zone. I believe assassins can parry it also any CC goes through. And there is gap for any heavy to go through after zone so it’s not safe anymore.

They also removed heavy after shield bash.

They gave him more tools and also took quite few things away.

Bro, Conq has the highest Duel Winrate of all Heroes with a whooping 60% in the Top 2.5% Bracket. So real good players win ALOT more than they lose on him. If you have problems - seems to be your fault...

Conq SB was buffed iirc with the Rework. LB Shove is by far not as bad as Conq SB is. Shove is 700ms, SB is 500ms. #same...
HL Kick - 700ms
Warden (has no Vortex btw) - 700ms

So, as you can see, Conq SB is superior to all those comparable moves. It is THE move being closest to a true 50:50. 200ms faster is huge. Conq free GB on Heavy Block was OP from the beginning. Conq went from massively OP to C-Tier to massively OP within the last year...

Please don't start comparing Heroes by their weapon. For Honor is not realistic and does not want to be.

Conq does not need HA. He has the superior kit with SB being THE best move from neutral in the game right now.

Zone is stupidly OP. What do you mean with "Assassins can parry it"? Everyone CAN parry it, but you have to time your parry input SO perfectly when you get into range, it is almost impossible with Lag. Full-Block on Zone after Revenge means a NON punishable Conq for ages. Sure, a fully charged Warden could hit Conq, but every other CC I can think of would not have the range to do it.

HazelrahFirefly
06-26-2018, 11:16 AM
The Conq's SB cannot be Guard Broken at the "start." I don't even know where you're getting that. If you haven't activated the SB, then you can be GB - if you have started the SB then you are invincible for a moment.

Also, I've never seen anyone hit a Conq out of the SB with a light. Pretty sure that's also nonsense, but I ask for other's input on this in case I am wrong.

Lastly, almost no one can GB the conq after side dodging the attack. 600 ms dodging a 500 ms move, and soon the entire cast will be at 600 ms with their dodges, so that literally no one can punish the Conq.

Strongest tool in the game.

Edit: I wish my damn phone would stop autocorrecting tool into took haha

Charmzzz
06-26-2018, 11:25 AM
The Conq's SB cannot be Guard Broken at the "start." I don't even know where you're getting that. If you haven't activated the SB, then you can be GB - if you have started the SB then you are invincible for a moment.

Also, I've never seen anyone hit a Conq out of the SB with a light. Pretty sure that's also nonsense, but I ask for other's input on this in case I am wrong.

Lastly, almost no one can GB the conq after side dodging the attack. 600 ms dodging a 500 ms move, and soon the entire cast will be at 600 ms with their dodges, so that literally no one can punish the Conq.

Strongest took in the game.

Correct. How you interrupt a 500ms Move after it already started with a 500ms Attack?

Armosias
06-26-2018, 12:09 PM
I just wanted to correct one thing:
Conq's SB is NOT a 50/50, his heavies are 33/33/33. SB cannot be cancelled nor feinted and only nets you a 15 damages light or a heavy on wallsplat. Shove have HA but does not guarantee a light on anyone, warden's SB guarantees a 24 dmg double light and can be feinted into GB. And seriously calling Lawdaddy's shove a 50/50 is non sense but it's not the subject.

Arekonator
06-26-2018, 04:57 PM
You technically can grab him before he initiates his SB, but you would have to catch him in the 100ms window at the begining with the dodge. Good luck with that.

Limiting the delayability of SB would be imo good start of toning him down.

Hormly
06-26-2018, 11:05 PM
Firstly, SB is one of the most powerful moves in the game hands down.

Not only that, but after side dodges are normalized, moves like SB will likely be nerfed to made punishable by all classes rather than some.

Knight_Raime
06-27-2018, 12:25 AM
Is there any way this can be improved?

I get GBíed easily in the start as well at the end of the SB if it misses. Somebody just needs to side step and itís a free GB. I think itís too much punishment for that.

If we look at similar moves like Cent kick or HL kick this is not the case.

Also it can be easily interrupted with light attacks. Heroes like Orochi just needs to throw a light and I canít so anything.

This to me sounds like you're using it predictably. Bash can be used as soon as you've hit the dodge forward button and can be delayed a decent amount. Meaning if Bash is being used properly most heros have to punish it on prediction rather than reaction.

Gallow-
06-27-2018, 08:47 AM
Hi
I'm a main conq , i don't know, since middle of season 1 maybe? I'm not top player, but i'm not the worst either.

In my opinion, the problem with Conq, it's that he/she it's all based on SB and some times it's even boring (for the Conq and of course for the enemy), jesus, sometimes i don't even punish enemies at OOS for that motive.

In my opinion, Conq need some tweaks for be more balanced and less OP.

First, reduce a little bit the shield damage, 2 dmg from 5 (if i'm not wrong)

Second, do a SB more predectible/reactionable, but, the Conq can now do de "same" as Warden, transform the SB to a GB (pressing GB button again), and the SB start can't be cancelled

Third, add a new moveset/combo:

Something like the Valkyrie sweep, but with some diferences.

The key combinations are S+GB (on Keyboard+mouse),can also be used from neutral or chained.

For exemple:

SB- Light/heavy-SB- light/heavy- SB or sweep (it's just an example), the enemy knockdown and the Conq can punish with top heavy, BUT, the enemy can dodge it and do a GB. (Big reward, big punish, right?)

The animation it's already there (light atack against minions, at somepoint, the conq do it)

Speaking of wich... why when the Conq kill minions, the light button and the heavy are the same atack? Before rework we could make combinations light / heavy attacks with diferents animations, now, if we press heavy atacks do the same as light atacks (against minions)

Well, thx and sorry for my english