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rockfede5
06-22-2018, 01:59 PM
I read that on 5th October (with the release of the game) a novel will be published.
The novel speaks about the story of Kassandra and her journey.
So is Kassandra the canon protagonist of the story and Alexios only an add???
I like them both, but now I am confused.
In order to respect Lore I have to play as Kassandra??

karoomii
06-22-2018, 02:17 PM
Kassandra is canon. Your questions is answered here (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1897692-Reddit-AMA-with-ACOD-Creative-Director-Jonathan-Dumont-6-21-2018).

You have the option to play as Alexios to help enhance the newer RPG feel of the game. I wouldn't say you have to play as Kassandra to respect the lore because Ubisoft doesn't really seem to respect it much themselves :P

cawatrooper9
06-22-2018, 02:21 PM
You have about as much info as we do at this point, but I expect this could be possible:

Kassandra's book could be a prequel to the game.

That way, her story in the novel is cemented as canon, but the game's protagonist could still be either character in your "head canon",

Not sure how the events of this game could be referred to in subsequent games, but I guess they could do with something like the Bethesda games and call you the Wanderer, the Hero of K̶v̶a̶t̶c̶h̶ Sparta, or the D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶ Isuborn.

rockfede5
06-22-2018, 02:44 PM
Yes you are right! The elder scrolls example is perfect, in Skyrim they always call you Dovakhiin (So generic name) in Ac Odyssey wiki they use Mysthios

W-Munny66
06-22-2018, 09:04 PM
Assassin’s Creed is one of my favorite franchises and I’ve enjoyed every game the released (some more than others but I’ve liked them all). Let's be honest though, the Only reason they shoe horned in having to play as Aya after spending a hundred hours leveling up Bayek, and changing syndicate from the bad *** looking Assassin from the leaked screenshots to have to play as the Frye TWINS was to appease the small but vocal minority who complained their wasn't a female avatar in the AC Unity co-op, Despite the fact that in AC Unity everybody essentially played their version of Arno in co-op so the complaints really were a moot point. Now because of their not wanting to offend ANYONE, Odyssey has the ability to pick a man or a woman to start the game, forsaking a coherent story to appease people who are never happy. I'm fine with having the choice to choose whether you play as a man or woman just not in an AC game that is supposed to be reliving a person's history. Pick one. I was fine playing as Shao Jun or Aveline because the story fit the character. I know they will have some stupid narrative where the awful present day character will "blah, blah blah ANIMUS" but unfortunately it seems to me they are making decisions to not offend rather than writing a good engaging story, which is what they used to do when Patrice Désilets started the game. And let’s be honest, the present timeline of Assassin's Creed is a mess. How fun was it to have to leave the animus to walk around a little cave a few times and talk to your friend, kill a few people then have SPOILERS William Miles show up to remind us of better present day ac story-lines. Ever since AC3 I wish they would just leave us in the animus and not waste time with the horrible attempts at present day. And yes Desmonds story ended up not being nearly as cool as I thought it would be ( a whole game where you played as Desmond running around a modern day open world city assassinating all kinds of templar’s was what I thought they were leading to, but oh well). Ratonhnhaké ton is the best!

karoomii
06-22-2018, 09:09 PM
Assassin’s Creed is one of my favorite franchises and I’ve enjoyed every game the released (some more than others but I’ve liked them all). Let's be honest though, the Only reason they shoe horned in having to play as Aya after spending a hundred hours leveling up Bayek, and changing syndicate from the bad *** looking Assassin from the leaked screenshots to have to play as the Frye TWINS was to appease the small but vocal minority who complained their wasn't a female avatar in the AC Unity co-op, Despite the fact that in AC Unity everybody essentially played their version of Arno in co-op so the complaints really were a moot point. Now because of their not wanting to offend ANYONE, Odyssey has the ability to pick a man or a woman to start the game, forsaking a coherent story to appease people who are never happy. I'm fine with having the choice to choose whether you play as a man or woman just not in an AC game that is supposed to be reliving a person's history. Pick one. I was fine playing as Shao Jun or Aveline because the story fit the character. I know they will have some stupid narrative where the awful present day character will "blah, blah blah ANIMUS" but unfortunately it seems to me they are making decisions to not offend rather than writing a good engaging story, which is what they used to do when Patrice Désilets started the game. And let’s be honest, the present timeline of Assassin's Creed is a mess. How fun was it to have to leave the animus to walk around a little cave a few times and talk to your friend, kill a few people then have SPOILERS William Miles show up to remind us of better present day ac story-lines. Ever since AC3 I wish they would just leave us in the animus and not waste time with the horrible attempts at present day. And yes Desmonds story ended up not being nearly as cool as I thought it would be ( a whole game where you played as Desmond running around a modern day open world city assassinating all kinds of templar’s was what I thought they were leading to, but oh well). Ratonhnhaké ton is the best!
^^^ I agree with everything you just said except for Connor being the best lol

rockfede5
06-22-2018, 09:24 PM
Assassin’s Creed is one of my favorite franchises and I’ve enjoyed every game the released (some more than others but I’ve liked them all). Let's be honest though, the Only reason they shoe horned in having to play as Aya after spending a hundred hours leveling up Bayek, and changing syndicate from the bad *** looking Assassin from the leaked screenshots to have to play as the Frye TWINS was to appease the small but vocal minority who complained their wasn't a female avatar in the AC Unity co-op, Despite the fact that in AC Unity everybody essentially played their version of Arno in co-op so the complaints really were a moot point. Now because of their not wanting to offend ANYONE, Odyssey has the ability to pick a man or a woman to start the game, forsaking a coherent story to appease people who are never happy. I'm fine with having the choice to choose whether you play as a man or woman just not in an AC game that is supposed to be reliving a person's history. Pick one. I was fine playing as Shao Jun or Aveline because the story fit the character. I know they will have some stupid narrative where the awful present day character will "blah, blah blah ANIMUS" but unfortunately it seems to me they are making decisions to not offend rather than writing a good engaging story, which is what they used to do when Patrice Désilets started the game. And let’s be honest, the present timeline of Assassin's Creed is a mess. How fun was it to have to leave the animus to walk around a little cave a few times and talk to your friend, kill a few people then have SPOILERS William Miles show up to remind us of better present day ac story-lines. Ever since AC3 I wish they would just leave us in the animus and not waste time with the horrible attempts at present day. And yes Desmonds story ended up not being nearly as cool as I thought it would be ( a whole game where you played as Desmond running around a modern day open world city assassinating all kinds of templar’s was what I thought they were leading to, but oh well). Ratonhnhaké ton is the best!

I agree, my secret dream was a final games in which you play with desmond now a master Assassin in modern day city and of course in the animus with one of his ancestors, a final games that show the assasins win , but they killed Desmond :-(
I like Connor too but my favorite is Ezio (I'm Italian so i like him very much)

ProdiGurl
06-22-2018, 11:22 PM
Yes, Ezio <3
I especially agreed w/ the Modern Day part at the end. I was interested in 1 MD scene that had some mystery to it when he was parkouring around modern day Rome at night - there was construction going on somewhere there - been a long time since I played that but I liked it. If they could make it interesting with the right character, it would be fine - just less of it.
& not going back & forth from MD to Animus machine -back to our assassin.

>>Ever since AC3 I wish they would just leave us in the animus and not waste time with the horrible attempts at present day. And yes Desmonds story ended up not being nearly as cool as I thought it would be ( a whole game where you played as Desmond running around a modern day open world city assassinating all kinds of templar’s was what I thought they were leading to, but oh well). Ratonhnhaké ton is the best! <<

joelsantos24
06-23-2018, 11:57 AM
I read that on 5th October (with the release of the game) a novel will be published.
The novel speaks about the story of Kassandra and her journey.
So is Kassandra the canon protagonist of the story and Alexios only an add???
I like them both, but now I am confused.
In order to respect Lore I have to play as Kassandra??
Yes. If you play with the woman, it's canonical, but if you play with the man, it's a lie. There's no way around it, it's a fact. However, according to the game director, it's all good. Somehow, someway, they'll make sure it all fits the mythology. LOOOL

Grayfox-87-
06-24-2018, 12:25 PM
I dont know who the hell has again the Idea to make again a Female Hero to a "Canon".... Sparta and Female Warriors! :confused:

Ghost416
06-24-2018, 01:23 PM
Yes. If you play with the woman, it's canonical, but if you play with the man, it's a lie. There's no way around it, it's a fact. However, according to the game director, it's all good. Somehow, someway, they'll make sure it all fits the mythology. LOOOL
Don't play as the damn man, then. Sheesh.

joshoolhorst
06-24-2018, 01:40 PM
Don't play as the damn man, then. Sheesh.

You know what my problem is THAT we finally reached the day that this is a discussion on the AC lore and on the forums, I will play Alexios first when I eventually get my hands on the game but I feel personal that I'm not allowed to be invested anymore by the newer games because things like this it's just so weird that Alexios is now in the game while he shouldn't exist.
And I think that is a isue with many fans here... Investment not being paid of, it feels bad to be invested into this world for me now.

joelsantos24
06-24-2018, 02:02 PM
You know what my problem is THAT we finally reached the day that this is a discussion on the AC lore and on the forums, I will play Alexios first when I eventually get my hands on the game but I feel personal that I'm not allowed to be invested anymore by the newer games because things like this it's just so weird that Alexios is now in the game while he shouldn't exist.
And I think that is a isue with many fans here... Investment not being paid of, it feels bad to be invested into this world for me now.
There's no point in investing in these stories, because the stories no longer matter. They don't even make sense, anymore. I feel that most fans have forgotten about it, but I remember an Ubisoft director saying that "their goal was to implement or include less and less narrative elements in the future games" (https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2016/11/15/dans-les-prochains-jeux-video-ubisoft-il-y-aura-de-moins-en-moins-de-narration_5031610_4408996.html). They're being successful at it. The stories feel more and more shallow and insipid, almost careless, at some point, so it doesn't really surprise me that this is happening with Odyssey.

I think that it's really a shame, to see such a prominent publisher indulging in the promotion and propagation of the lie that story-based, narrative-driven games are sort of a dead end. I think this is even laughable, to be honest, particularly considering what we've been witnessing in the last few years. Sony keeps proving everyone wrong, in this regard, but I suppose the worst blind is really the one who doesn't want to see.

joshoolhorst
06-24-2018, 02:36 PM
There's no point in investing in these stories, because the stories no longer matter. They don't even make sense, anymore. I feel that most fans have forgotten about it, but I remember an Ubisoft director saying that "their goal was to implement or include less and less narrative elements in the future games" (https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2016/11/15/dans-les-prochains-jeux-video-ubisoft-il-y-aura-de-moins-en-moins-de-narration_5031610_4408996.html). They're being successful at it. The stories feel more and more shallow and insipid, almost careless, at some point, so it doesn't really surprise me that this is happening with Odyssey.

I think that it's really a shame, to see such a prominent publisher indulging in the promotion and propagation of the lie that story-based, narrative-driven games are sort of a dead end. I think this is even laughable, to be honest, particularly considering what we've been witnessing in the last few years. Sony keep proving everyone wrong, in this regard, but I suppose the worst blind is really the one who doesn't want to see.

You are right and also a strong narrative helps selling more games everyone loves Uncharted and God of War 4 story driven games and they sell a lot now throw an open world on it now that will sell even more.

ProdiGurl
06-24-2018, 03:01 PM
Then please, don't invest in any of it then...................... Nobody is forcing you to like, buy or play the game and repeatedly attacking the same things over & over doesn't entice me to follow suit.. I think you said you sold all your AC stuff & you were done with this ?
Everyone has a right to express opinion, but then so do people who aren't trashing it & don't hold the same strict demands for AC.

I'd also say I'm not "blind" to what I don't want to see - I simply have different standards as to what makes AC, AC to me. And I probly have different tastes in gaming/genre. It's a matter of preference & taste, not ignorance or denial.

I don't prefer female protagonists but I'd play one if I had to. I like that they're offering a male protag & I have no doubt if they didn't, that we'd be seeing complaints about a female lead, caving to the new feminist pressure/trends or negative things about her character since it's always what happens.

I plan on playing Alexios first bcuz I prefer male assassins. Then, due to RPG replay value, I'll play as Kassandra & make a few different choices & experience the game that way. Lore/cannon/Modern Day isn't going to be what I base my gameplay enjoyment on.
If it's a well made game, alot of fun, variety, challenge, combat, missions, good story, beautiful graphics/location, then I'll be happy with Odyssey like I was Origins.

joelsantos24
06-24-2018, 03:11 PM
Then please, don't invest in any of it then...................... Nobody is forcing you to like, buy or play the game and repeatedly attacking the same things over & over doesn't entice me to follow suit.. I think you said you sold all your AC stuff & you were done with this ?
Everyone has a right to express opinion, but then so do people who aren't trashing it & don't hold the same strict demands for AC.

I'd also say I'm not "blind" to what I don't want to see - I simply have different standards as to what makes AC, AC to me. And I probly have different tastes in gaming/genre. It's a matter of preference & taste, not ignorance or denial.

I don't prefer female protagonists but I'd play one if I had to. I like that they're offering a male protag & I have no doubt if they didn't, that we'd be seeing complaints about a female lead, caving to the new feminist pressure/trends or negative things about her character since it's always what happens.

I plan on playing Alexios first bcuz I prefer male assassins. Then, due to RPG replay value, I'll play as Kassandra & make a few different choices & experience the game that way. Lore/cannon/Modern Day isn't going to be what I base my gameplay enjoyment on.
If it's a well made game, alot of fun, variety, challenge, combat, missions, good story, beautiful graphics/location, then I'll be happy with Odyssey like I was Origins.
I wasn't talking to you. If you don't appreciate our point of view and opinions, then don't quote and/or address us. Move along.

ProdiGurl
06-24-2018, 03:23 PM
Opinions are opinions on an open forum - I wasn't aware that disagreement was an unwelcome aspect or reason to respond

joelsantos24
06-24-2018, 03:43 PM
Opinions are opinions on an open forum - I wasn't aware that disagreement was an unwelcome aspect or reason to respond
Precisely. But you're not disagreeing with us. You're basically shoving us off, as if we're unwelcome or our opinions don't matter, as you just did moments ago:


Then please, don't invest in any of it then...................... Nobody is forcing you to like, buy or play the game and repeatedly attacking the same things over & over doesn't entice me to follow suit..



You have nothing to do with me. You have nothing to do with what I think. You have nothing to do with what I do. You have nothing to do with what I say or write. It's none of your business, whether or not I invest in anything. I'm not attacking anything or anyone. As a matter of fact, no one, besides you, is. As I said before, I was talking to Joshoolhorst, not you. Subsequently, you had no reason to barge into the discussion and play passive-aggressive. Just move on and don't address me again.

EzioLia2390
06-24-2018, 04:05 PM
The fans who are mad that the canon protagonist if female are getting mad at the wrong things. I have zero problem that the real protagonist is female. I have a problem with the fact that they didn't just make the game with her and left alone the choice of characters. They keep stressing the idea of freedom of choice in this game, yet decide that one character is canon because they are giving us a book with her. For true fans of this franchise from day one, like myself, the lore is was drew me to this series. So if I want to follow that lore the choice they are giving us is no choice at all and just a lie. I wish ubifost would have just given us a game with only kassandra, no novel, and really flesh out the character.

joshoolhorst
06-24-2018, 04:23 PM
Then please, don't invest in any of it then...................... Nobody is forcing you to like, buy or play the game and repeatedly attacking the same things over & over doesn't entice me to follow suit.. I think you said you sold all your AC stuff & you were done with this ?
Everyone has a right to express opinion, but then so do people who aren't trashing it & don't hold the same strict demands for AC.

I'd also say I'm not "blind" to what I don't want to see - I simply have different standards as to what makes AC, AC to me. And I probly have different tastes in gaming/genre. It's a matter of preference & taste, not ignorance or denial.

I don't prefer female protagonists but I'd play one if I had to. I like that they're offering a male protag & I have no doubt if they didn't, that we'd be seeing complaints about a female lead, caving to the new feminist pressure/trends or negative things about her character since it's always what happens.

I plan on playing Alexios first bcuz I prefer male assassins. Then, due to RPG replay value, I'll play as Kassandra & make a few different choices & experience the game that way. Lore/cannon/Modern Day isn't going to be what I base my gameplay enjoyment on.
If it's a well made game, alot of fun, variety, challenge, combat, missions, good story, beautiful graphics/location, then I'll be happy with Odyssey like I was Origins.

For the love of- I don't even know how to reply to this the only thing I can say is that I agree with joelsantos24 here

joelsantos24
06-24-2018, 04:32 PM
I do recognise the right for some people to prefer playing with a male character. To be honest, I don't care, I can play with a female or male character. It's the same, to me. Moreover, Tomb Raider is an amazing game and Lara Croft is an equally awesome character. She actually kicks a**. :cool:

Some communities really have problems with female characters, as the latest Battlefield controversy showed us. I think it's actually cool, playing with female characters. As for Odyssey, I believe that the more significant and divisive problem, is the way Ubisoft is blatantly disregarding the mythology. The character choice is also included in it, because one is canonical and the other is a lie, but there are other issues.


For the love of- I don't even know how to reply to this the only thing I can say is that I agree with joelsantos24 here
It's cool... Just forget about it, it's pointless to keep arguing. Let's just continue with the discussion. ;)

silvermercy
06-24-2018, 04:37 PM
I was really planning to play as Alexios. I was very excited. Now I'll have to play as Kassandra to be accurate?

ProdiGurl
06-24-2018, 04:45 PM
For the love of- I don't even know how to reply to this the only thing I can say is that I agree with joelsantos24 here
I was posting to J24, not you.

In general, If it's ok for people to gripe & complain on a public forum, then it should be fine for someone else to disagree on aspects of it - on a public forum.
Maybe we should split the forum up to fanboys & haters & people can stay in their own areas.
Public posts are seen by and make impressions on everyone on any side. If Ubi is reading these threads as they say they do, then my opinion is just as valid as your critical opinion is too.

Thankfully I have alot of work to do today, so the clique can continue to rant & complain about everything in peace.

joshoolhorst
06-24-2018, 05:03 PM
I do recognise the right for some people to prefer playing with a male character. To be honest, I don't care, I can play with a female or male character. It's the same. Moreover, Tomb Raider is an amazing game and Lara Croft is an equally awesome character. She actually kicks a**. :cool:

Some communities really have problems with female characters, as the lashes Battlefield controversy showed us. I think it's actually cool, playing with female characters. As for Odyssey, I think that the more significant and divisive problem, is the way Ubisoft is blatantly disregarding the mythology. The character choice is also included in the problem, because one is canonical and the other is a lie, but there are other issues.


It's cool... Just forget about it, it's pointless to keep arguing. Let's just continue with the discussion. ;)
First I want to say I love Lara Croft and can't wait to play the upcoming game Shadow of the Tomb Raider! one of my friends on school was ''sexist'' I believe I'm not entirely sure though but he hated playing as a woman and he always disrespected me for liking Lara Croft or just to play as a woman whenever this was brought up, I never understood the problem with that, I love the fact that the AC Community has no problem with female protagonists but the only problem we have with Kassandra like you mentioned is how Ubisoft just disregards the mythology.
Yeah it's pointless to keep arguing.


I was really planning to play as Alexios. I was very excited. Now I'll have to play as Kassandra to be accurate?

Guess you might need to book to so you can know the right dialoge option.

joelsantos24
06-24-2018, 05:06 PM
First I want to say I love Lara Croft and can't wait to play the upcoming game Shadow of the Tomb Raider! one of my friends on school was ''sexist'' I believe I'm not entirely sure though but he hated playing as a woman and he always disrespected me for liking Lara Croft or just to play as a woman whenever this was brought up, I never understood the problem with that, I love the fact that the AC Community has no problem with female protagonists but the only problem we have with Kassandra like you mentioned is how Ubisoft just disregards the mythology.
Yeah it's pointless to keep arguing.
The gameplay on Shadow of the Tomb Raider looks awesome. I can't wait to try it out. ;)


I was really planning to play as Alexios. I was very excited. Now I'll have to play as Kassandra to be accurate?
:cool:

As far as the character choice is concerned, yeah, Kassandra is the canonical option and Alexios doesn't exist. On the other hand, you have the general choices throughout the game and the supposed multiple endings. If you truly mean to be strictly canonical in the game, then I assume you'll have to read the book, first.

Again, this is what I mean, Ubisoft doesn't care about how it addresses the mythology, as far as they keep milking the series for all it's worth. The modern day/Juno meta-story and antagonistic point of view, is no longer approached in the games. Instead, these topics, that were crucial in the series, are showcased and portrayed in several sets of comic books, that no one cares about. If you want to know about those topics, you have to buy and read them.

silvermercy
06-24-2018, 05:11 PM
Guess you might need to book to so you can know the right dialoge option.

No I don't care about choices so much... Just the character as my avatar. I don't want to play as Kassandra unfortunately (even though I'm female). And now I learn Alexios is actually a Kassandra skin. :/

joshoolhorst
06-24-2018, 05:12 PM
I was posting to J24, not you.

In general, If it's ok for people to gripe & complain on a public forum, then it should be fine for someone else to disagree on aspects of it - on a public forum.
Maybe we should split the forum up to fanboys & haters & people can stay in their own areas.
Public posts are seen by and make impressions on everyone on any side. If Ubi is reading these threads as they say they do, then my opinion is just as valid as your critical opinion is too.

Thankfully I have alot of work to do today, so the clique can continue to rant & complain about everything in peace.

You know I don't even wanna reply or know how to respond to this but because I have to explain my comment just yo be sure I thought it was also pointed towards me because I made a post about investment and really... Fanboys & haters & people can stay in their own areas? and clique?
Fine have a good day but please don't respond to me or quote me about this topic I'm fine to talk about everything with you except this because it will not go anywhere.

joshoolhorst
06-24-2018, 05:14 PM
The gameplay on Shadow of the Tomb Raider looks awesome. I can't wait to try it out. ;)


:cool:

As far as the character choice is concerned, yeah, Kassandra is the canonical option and Alexios doesn't exist. On the other hand, you have the general choices throughout the game and the supposed multiple endings. If you truly mean to be strictly canonical in the game, then I assume you'll have to read the book, first.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1kTu2hacaI
LOVE IT:D

joelsantos24
06-24-2018, 05:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1kTu2hacaI
LOVE IT:D
Amazing! :cool:

And would you believe it? Who would've guessed, that a linear/semi-linear, story-based, narrative-driven game could be so good, so popular, so loved, so appealing, captivating and fun? Sony has been saying forever, but no one's paying any attention, it seems. :rolleyes:

datAssassin2018
06-24-2018, 05:31 PM
Kassandra shouldn't be cannon.Her character is more polished because of this but everything seems out of place.Her father throws her(a little girl) from a cliff.And she wears muscle cuirasses(lol) and fights in battles like some mythical warrior princess.I'm glad there is a choice but I am not going to pick her.


.

joshoolhorst
06-24-2018, 05:37 PM
Amazing! :cool:

And would you believe it? Who would've guessed, that a linear/semi-linear, story-based, narrative-driven game could be so good, so popular, so loved, so appealing, captivating and fun? Sony has been saying forever, but no one's paying any attention, it seems. :rolleyes:

Who would could have guessed that it's so beloved that they spended a hundred million on the game to and will have a lasting impact on gaming forever while still remembering the previous adventures:cool:

datAssassin2018
06-24-2018, 05:43 PM
I was posting to J24, not you.

In general, If it's ok for people to gripe & complain on a public forum, then it should be fine for someone else to disagree on aspects of it - on a public forum.
Maybe we should split the forum up to fanboys & haters & people can stay in their own areas.

These gripes and compains are expressions of opinion.You can have a different opinion and express it but i think it's wrong to tell someone not to express his/her own opinion because it's negative.If you don't want to see all these "complains" and negativity you can simply ignore them.

Grayfox-87-
06-24-2018, 05:46 PM
My biggest Problem with this game are, the fact Alexios never has his own animation and Run like a F**king GIRL - i prefer allways the Male character! I never buy Games with a Female canon Heroes, that was the reason why i never buy Syndicate (also because the Timeline).....a

AnimusLover
06-25-2018, 12:57 AM
Precisely. But you're not disagreeing with us. You're basically shoving us off, as if we're unwelcome or our opinions don't matter, as you just did moments ago:

You have nothing to do with me. You have nothing to do with what I think. You have nothing to do with what I do. You have nothing to do with what I say or write. It's none of your business, whether or not I invest in anything. I'm not attacking anything or anyone. As a matter of fact, no one, besides you, is. As I said before, I was talking to Joshoolhorst, not you. Subsequently, you had no reason to barge into the discussion and play passive-aggressive. Just move on and don't address me again.


Walk away now, that poster is a lost caused! I put her on ignore ages ago and if you want to keep your sanity you'd do the same lol

As for your earlier points regarding Ubisoft backing away from more narrative driven stories I 100% agree with you.
The Ezio trilogy is very story driven and it's the one that made AC what it is today (for better and for worse) so it makes no sense to focus less and less on story.
This is a problem across many Ubisoft games of late. The Division had a lot of story potential but it was relegated to audio collectibles.

ProdiGurl
06-25-2018, 01:18 AM
>>> Walk away now, that poster is a lost caused! I put her on ignore ages ago and if you want to keep your sanity you'd do the same lol<<
Says yet another negative complainer.... and by "lost cause" that must mean, "she won't agree with you or change her mind n o matter how you attack anything". This is exactly why so many leave these forums right here.... how absolutely RUDE people get if you don't happen to agree with their attacks on everything.
Disgusting

WendysBrioche
06-25-2018, 01:22 AM
You have about as much info as we do at this point, but I expect this could be possible:

Kassandra's book could be a prequel to the game.

That way, her story in the novel is cemented as canon, but the game's protagonist could still be either character in your "head canon",

Not sure how the events of this game could be referred to in subsequent games, but I guess they could do with something like the Bethesda games and call you the Wanderer, the Hero of K̶v̶a̶t̶c̶h̶ Sparta, or the D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶ Isuborn.

Isuborn lmao :D


My biggest Problem with this game are, the fact Alexios never has his own animation and Run like a F**king GIRL - i prefer allways the Male character! I never buy Games with a Female canon Heroes, that was the reason why i never buy Syndicate (also because the Timeline).....a

Strange, I didn't even notice it lol

ProdiGurl
06-25-2018, 01:32 AM
Steven Seagal is known for running like a girl - but he fought like a Master :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmvzCP65z00

HDinHB
06-25-2018, 02:14 AM
Yes you are right! The elder scrolls example is perfect, in Skyrim they always call you Dovakhiin (So generic name) in Ac Odyssey wiki they use Mysthios

Interestingly, the wiki already calls her "the real Mithios."

The Misthios was a legendary mercenary and grandchild of Leonidas, who wielded the Spear of Leonidas during the Peloponnesian War. The Lost Book of Herodotus made mention of this individual and their artifact, which spurred Layla Hassan, who at the time was working alongside the Assassins, on a quest to explore their genetic memory. As the research was inconclusive, this individual could either have been Kassandra – the real Misthios – or Alexios, leaving Layla with the option to pick either individual through which to explore the memories.

Poor Alexios!

Grayfox-87-
06-25-2018, 05:26 AM
Strange, I didn't even notice it lol


Steven Seagal is known for running like a girl - but he fought like a Master :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmvzCP65z00

IMO its not funny - Ubisoft brings a Female Hero as "Canon" (exactly into this Time Zone :confused: - a Female Spartan hero -it sucks ) ok... i dont have a Problem with this - BUT if they do this, they should at least Create a MALE Mocap for ALEXIOS and this is something i dont Understand - how could i give a MALE Character a Female "Running Animation"??? Who the Hell has this IDEA?

Thats sad...i want Ashraf and his Team back, they do IMO the best Games until now (Black Flag & Origins)
The next thing is, why is nobody noticed that?? Just a Couple of People see that?!

Swailing
06-25-2018, 09:59 AM
Assassin’s Creed is one of my favorite franchises and I’ve enjoyed every game the released (some more than others but I’ve liked them all). Let's be honest though, the Only reason they shoe horned in having to play as Aya after spending a hundred hours leveling up Bayek, and changing syndicate from the bad *** looking Assassin from the leaked screenshots to have to play as the Frye TWINS was to appease the small but vocal minority who complained their wasn't a female avatar in the AC Unity co-op

No.

The leaked images were from target footage, well ahead of the full game design. It was a mock-up for investors. You can't assume anything from the apparent appearance of the placeholder protag, who was only seen from the back. In fact, the fact that the character wasn't featured in a focussed way goes against what you're saying. For example, in the target footage for AC3, Connor was front-and-centre throughout. The vagueness of the character in the Victory leak really lends more credence to the idea that they planned for two protags from the start.

The calls for a female protagonist didn't start from the Unity co-op controversy. Those wishes have been around a long time, and to say it's just a small minority isn't really sustainable. Everything you've seen happen in recent years to create a better balance of female central characters to male central characters hasn't happened just because a few mouthy people had a platform. And the infamously cautious games industry didn't make these changes without doing hard research to ensure the demand was out there (which AC did; just ask around these forums and you'll easily find a few of the many thousands who were surveyed before Syndicate existed). Also, if you admit nothing else then you'd have to concede that female characters are not unwelcome, given the love and success out there for so many female-centred games.

Aya was not "shoehorned in", either. She's been a key part of the lore since Ezio's games, with people gazing at her statue and musing about one day playing as her in Ancient Egypt. Your dismissal of that betrays your real feelings on this matter, really.


Now because of their not wanting to offend ANYONE, Odyssey has the ability to pick a man or a woman to start the game, forsaking a coherent story to appease people who are never happy.

I was unhappy with Syndicate because the game wasn't even split evenly between Evie and Jack. Evie got one important mission to herself. All of her other missions were minor work and/or revisiting places where Jack had already done the exciting job. It felt like relegation. Granted, she got a DLC, but that's the point — it was a DLC: yet more minor positioning. If anything, the decision in Odyssey is a sop to the opposite of the "small minority" you're thinking of. Ubi can't repeat the obvious fumble of Syndicate, but the desire for a female protag among the player base isn't unanimous. So, she gets a whole game, but so does a man so that those players are kept happy too. And after that, maybe Ubisoft will finally feel brave enough to make some major games about men and some major games about women, and not use these fudges.

I'm not really seeing why the Odyssey model is a huge barrier to a good story, though. The story could be mechanically and emotionally superb. It'll have the odd personalising nip and tuck here and there so that the characters feel like they're interacting with the character you choose and refer to them by name. The other NPCs aren't going to seem too awkward if they refer to us both as "the Athenian"/"the Spartan"/"the mercenary"; we've had guards and major NPCs bark at us as "the Assassin" since day one.

And on the bright side, there is a major positive to this model in that it encourages replay. I will certainly go for a second run of Odyssey as Alexios after I've completed the game as Kassandra. As much as I enjoyed Origins, I haven't replayed it yet.

joelsantos24
06-25-2018, 10:00 AM
>>> Walk away now, that poster is a lost caused! I put her on ignore ages ago and if you want to keep your sanity you'd do the same lol<<
Says yet another negative complainer.... and by "lost cause" that must mean, "she won't agree with you or change her mind n o matter how you attack anything". This is exactly why so many leave these forums right here.... how absolutely RUDE people get if you don't happen to agree with their attacks on everything.
Disgusting


This is precisely the problem with your entire deportment or conduct around the Forums, as well as the way you express yourself and your views. My opinion, as well as others' around here, is considered by you as an "attack", whilst you seem to hold the only valid and acceptable stance.

Subsequently, when someone points that out, you victimise yourself and play a passive-aggressive game. You say, "I just disagree and I'm just being highlighted by those who are simply rude and constantly attacking everything about the game". So, when you disagree with someone, that's an "opinion", as you said it yourself. But when others disagree with you, they're disgusting?

You seem utterly incapable of recognising the value and the merit of many fans' criticism of Odyssey. You like the game, as is your prerogative, but that doesn't mean others are obliged to do so, just because. There are two people around here, yourself included, that keep dismissing and disregarding every contrary opinion on Odyssey. Your views are opinions, and ours are attacks. That distinction does little to nullify and proscribe the views contrary to yours, in reality. People have eyes and they can read, which means they can recognise opinions, attacks and simple defensive demeanours.

Swailing
06-25-2018, 10:13 AM
My biggest Problem with this game are, the fact Alexios never has his own animation and Run like a F**king GIRL - i prefer allways the Male character! I never buy Games with a Female canon Heroes, that was the reason why i never buy Syndicate (also because the Timeline).....a

I heard it's kind of expensive to animate male characters

soz m8

ProdiGurl
06-25-2018, 12:33 PM
This is precisely the problem with your entire deportment or conduct around the Forums, as well as the way you express yourself and your views. My opinion, as well as others' around here, is considered by you as an "attack", whilst you seem to hold the only valid and acceptable stance.

Subsequently, when someone points that out, you victimise yourself and play a passive-aggressive game. You say, "I just disagree and I'm just being highlighted by those who are simply rude and constantly attacking everything about the game". So, when you disagree with someone, that's an "opinion", as you said it yourself. But when others disagree with you, they're disgusting?

You seem utterly incapable of recognising the value and the merit of many fans' criticism of Odyssey. You like the game, as is your prerogative, but that doesn't mean others are obliged to do so, just because. There are two people around here, yourself included, that keep dismissing and disregarding every contrary opinion on Odyssey. Your views are opinions, and ours are attacks. That distinction does little to nullify and proscribe the views contrary to yours, in reality. People have eyes and they can read, which means they can recognise opinions, attacks and simple defensive demeanours.
Yes people have eyes and can read.. that includes myself. & someone else in this forum has commented on your posts as well, and about your 'elitism' around here.
When you say in another post that you're done with AC and sold all your AC material online, tell someone else that "As you wish. The forum is all yours.", yet keep coming back to complain & rant, THAT is what looks like attacking.
It stops being constructive criticism if you're "out" yet keep returning to b&$(*# and complain about everything and now other people personally. They're usually considered 'haters'. Don't blame me for recognizing it.

>>whilst you seem to hold the only valid and acceptable stance. <<
I'll just repost an exchange of what someone else said about yours
>>>
How irrational is it, to be "viewing" memories of passed events, and still be able to choose character gender, have dialogue options and lead to multiple endings? Some people will always buy into anything, just for that symbol on the cover.


About as irrational as you continuing this tirade to try to make people change their minds, while continuing to repeat the same diatribe over and over again. We get it, you don't care for Odyssey.

All this "true fan" talk is total crap. A "true fan" would continue to stick with the franchise through thick and thin, no matter what. Other "true fans" have tried to explain that even since AC1 that the Animus has been nothing but a possible approximation. You guys continue to throw around hardcore science and fact with the basis that your DNA actually carries the memories of your ancestors and those memories are passed on. That's the root of the story line but also pure science fiction. Anything beyond explain the specifics of how it works is also science fiction, including what memories we can and cannot see.<


Dude, I'm not trying to change the minds of anyone. Saying so and throwing some pseudo-expensive words whilst claiming it, won't make true. Moreover, stating that I've been "abusively denunciating" something, is beyond overreaching, not to mention slightly ludicrous and insulting. I'm just conveying my views, to whom those may be relevant or interesting. If you don't like the points of those who don't like this game or development path, then that's your problem, your responsibility, not ours. Your only "agenda" here, has been to unilaterally dismiss every single person that either dislikes this game or actually disagrees with you.

As for the "pedestal" reference, using your own words to address it: "it's total crap". The only one here who (pretentiously) seems to assume that he's on some kind of high pedestal of moral superiority, is you. Don't ever quote or address me again. We're done. Have a nice day.
<<<
Ironically, your original statement about me is a mirror reflection of what your posts have looked like and I wasn't the only one who noticed it (& to be fair, he said he shares alot of your concerns about ACOD).

And what I called disgusting was the RUDENESS which I thought was obvious there - which was set in the context right ahead of it. I had no victimization outside of calling out someone elses RUDE post about me personally which I thought was against forum rules. And I won't bother going into anything personal about that poster.
Hopefully this will be the end of all the rude personal crap being flung around here. It's beyond me why adults get this nasty & hostile over a game to obsess on negative posts day in and day out.

ps. with my lack of coffee, I accidentally hit the 'thumbs up' icon on your post - obviously as much of a mistake as some of the assertions found in it

ProdiGurl
06-25-2018, 12:53 PM
IMO its not funny - Ubisoft brings a Female Hero as "Canon" (exactly into this Time Zone :confused: - a Female Spartan hero -it sucks ) ok... i dont have a Problem with this - BUT if they do this, they should at least Create a MALE Mocap for ALEXIOS and this is something i dont Understand - how could i give a MALE Character a Female "Running Animation"??? Who the Hell has this IDEA?

Thats sad...i want Ashraf and his Team back, they do IMO the best Games until now (Black Flag & Origins)
The next thing is, why is nobody noticed that?? Just a Couple of People see that?!
I didn't say that was funny, I was simply highlighting on the fact that a real MAN can 'run like a girl' and yet still kick serious @$$ in real life. And on top of that, this game is not finished and released yet.
There's plenty of time for them to change this - and on top of that, I've commented more than once on how 'wonky' Alexios character moves - including facial expression w/ voice over.
I seriously hope it does get fixed, or that it was simply an early version used for gameplay to release at E3 but wasn't intended to stay for final release.

joelsantos24
06-25-2018, 01:45 PM
Yes people have eyes and can read.. that includes myself. & someone else in this forum has commented on your posts as well, and about your 'elitism' around here.
People have eyes, thank God. And as other people have also pointed out, even suggesting I'd simply ignore your posts or comments, you keep playing the passive-aggressive game and shoving the blame to other people. That "other" person that you just mentioned, is precisely the other, besides yourself, that is, that keeps dismissing and disregarding every criticism, every contrary consideration or disagreement to your views. How ironic is that?


When you say in another post that you're done with AC and sold all your AC material online, tell someone else that
"As you wish. The forum is all yours.", yet keep coming back to complain & rant, THAT is what looks like attacking.
Whether or not I'm done with this game, is none of your business. You have nothing to do with whatever I say, think or do. When I told that dear friend of yours, that "the forum was all his", that was called sarcasm. Because he acts exactly as if these forums were his personal playground. Besides yourself, he's the only one that has "opinions", whereas the rest of us just "blindly attack, rant or complaint".

I may not appreciate the current development path of the series, I may dislike the upcoming game, I may not play it or any future AC games, if they remain on this path, but no one here can consider themselves bigger AC fans than I am. I'll praise and criticise what I feel like praising or criticising. Whatever you think about it, is as irrelevant as it's meaningless, and therefore, not my problem.


I'll just repost an exchange of what someone else said about yours
Yes, as I said before, your only "proof of concept", are the statements of the other person, just like yourself, that disconsiders and disregards the points of those who may disagree with you. That's just deliciously ironic, in my opinion. And even more so, because we only have reasonable discussions and pleasant exchange of ideas around here. That is, until one of you shows up. Then, we see actual arguments unfold. You seem to breed conflict. Every discussion is sane, respectful and interesting, around here, but only until you decide to barge in. Reflect on that...


Ironically, your original statement about me is a mirror reflection of what your posts have looked like and I wasn't the only one who noticed it (& to be fair, he said he shares alot of your concerns about ACOD).
You keep going around and around and around in circles, playing this passive-aggressive game. Now I understand why others have suggested that I'd just click that ignore button, because this is going nowhere. Your only backup, is the other guy who disregards. It's just so ironic...


And what I called disgusting was the RUDENESS which I thought was obvious there - which was set in the context right ahead of it. I had no victimization outside of calling out someone elses RUDE post about me personally which I thought was against forum rules. And I won't bother going into anything personal about that poster.

Hopefully this will be the end of all the rude personal crap being flung around here. It's beyond me why adults get this nasty & hostile over a game to obsess on negative posts day in and day out.
Every single word that you write, speaks of victimisation. You only have "opinions" and the others are just "haters". You keep saying it, over and over and over again.


ps. with my lack of coffee, I accidentally hit the 'thumbs up' icon on your post - obviously as much of a mistake as some of the assertions found in it.
This is just precious. It's the literal cherry on top of the cake. Because what type of person feels the need to tell another that they just "liked" a comment or a post by mistake? Wow...

cawatrooper9
06-25-2018, 02:41 PM
All right, enough of that.

Let's get back on topic, or move on.

MnemonicSyntax
06-25-2018, 04:49 PM
Leave me out of this crap. I've already said my frustrations on the issue but it comes across as getting on my knees for Ubisoft no matter what way I spin it
.

I'll repeat it one last time. I have no issues with criticism. I take issue in comments like "some of.you will buy into anything with that symbol on the cover" because it's not possible we actually like the changes in the direction the franchise is going, or we are having a wait and see attitude on the game. Instead we will just buy it because of that symbol, like we're some type of mindless saps and blind fanboys.

*That's* the elitism I'm sick of.

joelsantos24
06-25-2018, 05:23 PM
As for your earlier points regarding Ubisoft backing away from more narrative driven stories I 100% agree with you.
The Ezio trilogy is very story driven and it's the one that made AC what it is today (for better and for worse) so it makes no sense to focus less and less on story.
This is a problem across many Ubisoft games of late. The Division had a lot of story potential but it was relegated to audio collectibles.
Yes, it makes no sense, the drastic diminishing investment in the story and narrative, but that's Ubisoft's vision. Sony's first-party and third-party exclusives, keep proving this notion wrong, but we have to recognise Ubisoft's right to evolve in whatever path they desire or see fit.

The first game was the only one, almost exclusively dedicated to the story and narrative. On the other hand, it was so criticised for it's somewhat repetitive nature, that the focus changed for the next games. The story behind Ezio's trilogy, was still cool, but in an open world environment, and with multiple existing activities, it's always easy to drown the narrative amongst these (more superficial) tasks. Usually, that's what happens.

I like Sucker Punch's approach with the Ghost of Tsushima, where, in an open world environment, every secondary mission and all available tasks will contribute to the story and character development. The story, narrative and single player perspective, are Sony's primary concerns, so it's somewhat expected to see this focus.

I played TD and I loved it. I went into it knowing exactly what it was, a full-fledged RPG, so the more shallow approach to the storytelling was expected. The Echoes were cool, and gave another perspective to the narrative, but I have to admit it wasn't very intricate, as you said.

joshoolhorst
06-25-2018, 06:05 PM
Well now we have moved on from that particular question we can go back to the topic.

Do you guys think this will happen with every game from today forward? that every game after Odyssey will have multiple playable characters and maybe even customisable like commander Shephard from ME series (I hope not)?

joelsantos24
06-25-2018, 06:36 PM
Well now we have moved on from that particular question we can go back to the topic.

Do you guys think this will happen with every game from today forward? that every game after Odyssey will have multiple playable characters and maybe even customisable like commander Shephard from ME series (I hope not)?
Well, I hope not. It will all depend on the commercial success of Odyssey. Considering how many fans are displeased, it's going to be tough.

Personally, I'd like to see the series go back to the approach of Unity or Syndicate. Unity was a really good game, but the regrettable, blatantly unfinished state in which it was clearly released, sort of buried it. Given all it's technical problems, Syndicate suffered the backlash. However, Unity remains the perfect template for the right focus on RPG elements, in my opinion. It had a good, comprehensive and long progression path, with gear and clothing affecting the way you were regarded on the streets and by the public/enemies.

From my point of view, there's only so much you can do, to evolve something. There will always be a progression plateau, and considering this inevitable fact, we don't need to see random elements being integrated into the series, just for the sake of sheer novelty. So, the focus would have to shift towards the quality of the storytelling, narrative and visuals, in order to captivate the public. That's what Playstation does, with outstanding results. But I don't believe Ubisoft will ever go back to that route.

joshoolhorst
06-25-2018, 07:18 PM
Well, I hope not. It will all depend on the commercial success of Odyssey. Considering how many fans are displeased, it's going to be tough.

Personally, I'd like to see the series go back to the approach of Unity or Syndicate. Unity was a really good game, but the regrettable, blatantly unfinished state in which it was clearly released, sort of buried it. Given all it's technical problems, Syndicate suffered the backlash. However, Unity remains the perfect template for the right focus on RPG elements, in my opinion. It had a good, comprehensive and long progression path, with gear and clothing affecting the way you were regarded on the streets and by the public/enemies.

From my point of view, there's only so much you can do, to evolve something. There will always be a progression plateau, and considering this inevitable fact, we don't need to see random elements being integrated into the series, just for the sake of sheer novelty. So, the focus would have to shift towards the quality of the storytelling, narrative and visuals, in order to captivate the public. That's what Playstation does, with outstanding results. But I don't believe Ubisoft will ever go back to that route.

You know what while I do disagree about Unity I agree on what you say about the rest, we don't need random elements in the games just for the sake of sheer novelty. If you make a good story people will stick with you. We humans are story lovers anyway everyday we tell our friends or family members what we did today or explain them whatever they want we are basicly telling them story's this might not be the best comparison but it's true.
Look at how many people cheer for a uncharted game or Spiderman

joelsantos24
06-25-2018, 09:24 PM
You know what while I do disagree about Unity I agree on what you say about the rest, we don't need random elements in the games just for the sake of sheer novelty. If you make a good story people will stick with you. We humans are story lovers anyway everyday we tell our friends or family members what we did today or explain them whatever they want we are basicly telling them story's this might not be the best comparison but it's true.
Look at how many people cheer for a uncharted game or Spiderman
I don't really think the storytelling will evolve that much or even be highlighted in the future games. This is the level of storytelling that Ubisoft is committed to, and I don't really see it changing much, in the future. Unfortunately, that is.

rockfede5
06-25-2018, 09:42 PM
A good solution (in my opinion) that can be accepted is adding a symbol or a mark Next to the canon choices (the ones of the novel featuring kassandra).
I think that this option is the better way to avoid discussions so the people who like Lore are satisfied and the others can have a full different story.
What do you Think??let me know!!

Swailing
06-25-2018, 10:54 PM
A good solution (in my opinion) that can be accepted is adding a symbol or a mark Next to the canon choices (the ones of the novel featuring kassandra).
I think that this option is the better way to avoid discussions so the people who like Lore are satisfied and the others can have a full different story.
What do you Think??let me know!!

I think that would be really intrusive, and it would make players nervous about enjoying the game as it was designed to be enjoyed. Most people would feel obligated to follow the 'true' path.

No doubt, as branching stories tend to do, there will be bottlenecks at certain points in the story. In order to maintain the correct history, there may even be modifications (i.e. if you don't kill Person X at the alloted time, someone else does — but maybe it won't be that detailed). Anyway, as far as canon choices go, I suspect there won't be many of those. They'll want people to have ultimately seen the things they should have seen, by and large. I think there'll be a vast amount of 'pseudo-canon', as it were.

MnemonicSyntax
06-26-2018, 09:06 AM
Layla's Animus has beem hacked to allow simulations anyway. That is sufficient enough to work for any alternate story lines, canon or otherwise.

joelsantos24
06-26-2018, 09:25 AM
I think that would be really intrusive, and it would make players nervous about enjoying the game as it was designed to be enjoyed. Most people would feel obligated to follow the 'true' path.

No doubt, as branching stories tend to do, there will be bottlenecks at certain points in the story. In order to maintain the correct history, there may even be modifications (i.e. if you don't kill Person X at the alloted time, someone else does — but maybe it won't be that detailed). Anyway, as far as canon choices go, I suspect there won't be many of those. They'll want people to have ultimately seen the things they should have seen, by and large. I think there'll be a vast amount of 'pseudo-canon', as it were.
Well, Rockfede5's suggestion did make some sense, in my opinion. Marking the canonical decisions isn't that intrusive, I believe, just a way to show players how events truly occurred. I mean, in the context of Odyssey, that is, with the availability of character choices, dialogue options and multiple possible endings, having the canonical occurrences specifically marked, makes some sense. Because I've already elaborated on why I'm opposed to the game being anything except strictly canonical.

eErudius
07-31-2018, 03:19 PM
Don't play as the damn man, then. Sheesh.
You obviously don't see the problem. The problem is that the male was offered as a canonical lead and then Ubisoft undermined their own game by saying his story is not canon, disenfranchising many people who were glad of a chance to play as him and have it matter. Those people now have been told by Ubisoft that their role-play style doesn't matter.

Erathiel
08-01-2018, 04:14 PM
I don't understand this problem with canon character in Odyssey.

For me its very simple If Kassandra if a canon character in the book then she's a canon character in the game.

joelsantos24
08-01-2018, 09:13 PM
I don't understand this problem with canon character in Odyssey.

For me its very simple If Kassandra if a canon character in the book then she's a canon character in the game.
Precisely. But that's not a problem, per se. The issue here, is that there's a group of fans around here who simply refuse to acknowledge Alexios' meaningless or irrelevant nature.

If the canonical path has been disclosed, it means that whatever differs from that structure, is a lie. Still, some people cling to the creative director's statements on the topic, saying that "there isn't a right or wrong path". That's a disingenuous statement. If there's a canon, then, choosing a different path from it will mean it's the wrong choice. What else can be said, when a canon is clearly admitted and defined by the developers, and then they still tell people that the wrong choices aren't wrong?

ModernWaffle
08-02-2018, 11:35 AM
Precisely. But that's not a problem, per se. The issue here, is that there's a group of fans around here who simply refuse to acknowledge Alexios' meaningless or irrelevant nature.

If the canonical path has been disclosed, it means that whatever differs from that structure, is a lie. Still, some people cling to the creative director's statements on the topic, saying that "there isn't a right or wrong path". That's a disingenuous statement. If there's a canon, then, choosing a different path from it will mean it's the wrong choice. What else can be said, when a canon is clearly admitted and defined by the developers, and then they still tell people that the wrong choices aren't wrong?

I do quite agree with this - but I think the point from the other side is that technically there's still a way for Alexios to be canon too by the time of release. Just on the top of my head, maybe the rumour about the alternate sibling being the antagonist of Odyssey is true and therefore Kassandra will be canon hero and Alexios canon villain. Or perhaps they're going to do a u-turn and just say Alexios is meant to be the canon protagonist for the game and Kassandra for the book making all statements practically redundant. I think something along the lines of the latter will most likely happen.

But regardless of what they do at this point, Odyssey continues to give me this vibe of messiness. Why didn't they just make a story where both of them can exist either Syndicate style with assigned missions or like Dishonored 2 where the unselected protagonist is conveniently removed from the narrative by being 'imprisoned'? In a way it's pointless to dwell on this issue for too long, but equally it still irks me why it is problem to begin with when it doesn't need to be.

joelsantos24
08-02-2018, 02:41 PM
"Fresh enough"? Why does it have to be that "fresh", to begin with? Why is it, that "the wheel must be reinvented" in every single instalment? What's the problem with smaller, but incremental and sustainable changes or improvements?

dxsxhxcx
08-02-2018, 02:43 PM
"Fresh enough"? Why does it have to be that "fresh", to begin with? Why is it, that "the wheel must be reinvented" in every single instalment? What's the problem with smaller, but incremental and sustainable changes or improvements?

Ended up deleting my post but I agree with you. IMO dialogue options and character choice should've never been implemented, to be honest they should've never followed the RPG route, I really don't see a problem with how things were before to justify these changes. The real problem is Ubisoft milking this franchise to death.

joelsantos24
08-02-2018, 02:54 PM
I do quite agree with this - but I think the point from the other side is that technically there's still a way for Alexios to be canon too by the time of release. Just on the top of my head, maybe the rumour about the alternate sibling being the antagonist of Odyssey is true and therefore Kassandra will be canon hero and Alexios canon villain. Or perhaps they're going to do a u-turn and just say Alexios is meant to be the canon protagonist for the game and Kassandra for the book making all statements practically redundant. I think something along the lines of the latter will most likely happen.

But regardless of what they do at this point, Odyssey continues to give me this vibe of messiness. Why didn't they just make a story where both of them can exist either Syndicate style with assigned missions or like Dishonored 2 where the unselected protagonist is conveniently removed from the narrative by being 'imprisoned'? In a way it's pointless to dwell on this issue for too long, but equally it still irks me why it is problem to begin with when it doesn't need to be.
Well, in my opinion, Odyssey looks and feels so much like a complete mess, because the changes applied to the game, don't really fit the series and it's traditional features. The concept of genetic memory was already fringy, to begin with, but now, people are talking about the possibility of bending reality and time, changing history, having multiple realities, multiple canonical structures, etc. The series was based on the exploration of ancestral memories, to gain knowledge in the war against the Templars. But now, history, by definition, doesn't hold any value, because apparently, the animus will be able to change history itself.

I can't remember the fan who wrote it, but recently, someone said around here something like "the canon doesn't matter anymore because the animus will be able to change history". If this is confirmed, then, the series will become mythologically bankrupted.

dxsxhxcx
08-02-2018, 03:12 PM
I can't remember the fan who wrote it, but recently, someone said around here something like "the canon doesn't matter anymore because the animus will be able to change history". If this is confirmed, then, the series will become mythologically bankrupted.

It was me.. :p

This talk from Origins kinda points to that being the case at least from my understanding, this doesn't mean the events narrated on the book won't be canonical, they probably were how things happened before Layla enters the animus in Odyssey.

http://www.accesstheanimus.com/GIN_Empirical_Truth.html
(http://www.accesstheanimus.com/GIN_Empirical_Truth.html)

joelsantos24
08-02-2018, 03:33 PM
It was me.. :p

This talk from Origins kinda points to that being the case at least from my understanding (read the sixth one)
http://www.accesstheanimus.com/GIN_Empirical_Truth.html
I remember Origins' First Civilisation transmissions. Well, Odyssey was already a stab on my back. If this is confirmed, then, in my opinion, it'll be the death of AC. At least, to me.

In a series that represents a function of realism, history and historical contexts, events and characters, shifting it's focus on the more illogical and misleading parts of fantasy and science-fiction, is self-destruction, in my opinion. I believe that reducing or erasing the value and merit of history, in a game that depends on it, is also reducing or erasing the significance of the game itself.

dxsxhxcx
08-02-2018, 04:45 PM
In a series that represents a function of realism, history and historical contexts, events and characters, shifting it's focus on the more illogical and misleading parts of fantasy and science-fiction, is self-destruction, in my opinion. I believe that reducing or erasing the value and merit of history, in a game that depends on it, is also reducing or erasing the significance of the game itself.

True, I mean, I really don't mind time travel or bending reality and time, they're interesting topics and I'm well aware there's a POE capable of doing that but IMO this should be used to interact with the more fictional part of the lore, TWCB, maybe interact with Adam and Eve as well and not historical eras as you've said, reducing or erasing their value and merit in the process, IMO that's just a excuse to have more freedom to visit as many historical eras as they want without the MD holding them down (and potentially being dropped along the way like evey single plot we've seen until now).

joelsantos24
08-02-2018, 05:15 PM
True, I mean, I really don't mind time travel or bending reality and time, they're interesting topics and I'm well aware there's a POE capable of doing that but IMO this should be used to interact with the more fictional part of the lore, TWCB, maybe interact with Adam and Eve as well and not historical eras as you've said, reducing or erasing their value and merit in the process, IMO that's just a excuse to have more freedom to visit as many historical eras as they want without the MD holding them down (and potentially being dropped along the way like evey single plot we've seen until now).
Well, Minerva, Juno and Jupiter interacted, so to speak, with Ezio, and through him, with Desmond. We didn't need to bend reality and time, in order to achieve that interaction. My initial point was, if they go through with this ability to change history, then, the historical background and the mythology itself will no longer hold any meaning. If something inconvenient occurs, then, it might be changed.

There must be accountability and responsibility in any action. Changing the past, bending reality and time, these sound like lame, easy routes. If they go ahead with this, then why not preventing Pharaoh Smenkhkare from founding the Order of the Ancients, in the first place?

I can't help but fearing that they might be opening a "can of worms", with this decision...

phoenix-force411
08-04-2018, 09:09 PM
Kinda feels weird for one character to be canon and the other to not be. I wouldn't mind it if it was the other way around as well where Alexios was canon. My main gripe with Odyssey is how they are giving players plot choices. If Kassandra is somehow important enough to be mentioned in Modern Day, how is Ubisoft going to keep things consistent and actually make player choices matter? What choices are canon and which ones are not? And, will characters ever bring up any events in Kassandra's life that were alterable by the player?

raddevbor
08-04-2018, 11:39 PM
I must admit I don't understand seriousness of this discussion. ;)
Canon or non-canon character - you still can shoot your arrows through the walls... :rolleyes:

AnimusLover
08-05-2018, 01:00 AM
Guys, say it with me:

The. Creative. Director. Never. Said. Alexios. Isn't. Canon.

For all we know, Alexios may still be a canon character in Kassandra's story, he just isn't the true protagonist of the game.
Obviously, if that turns out not to be the case I will be the first to say I was wrong but at least let's wait until the game is actually out first before we start making definitive statements on that.

joelsantos24
08-05-2018, 05:17 PM
I must admit I don't understand seriousness of this discussion. ;)
Canon or non-canon character - you still can shoot your arrows through the walls... :rolleyes:
This reminds me of that utterly lame decision to magically camouflage Evie Frye during stealth, in Syndicate. Oh, wait, isn't Odyssey being developed (mainly) by the Syndicate team? Oh, the irony. :(

MageAquarius20
08-05-2018, 08:31 PM
Kassandra seems the most Canon, the devs even talked about how much they loved her and given that she gets a Canon novel starring her, i feel like that she is the Character they wanted to be as Hero, yet the marketing and the Poster doesn't really relfect that and seems lame.

What is even lamer is the justification for us being able to have Greek Geralt and Aloy. They confirmed that the DNA is due to age, not longer able to identify the gender of the person proper, hence why we can play as Geralt or Aloy, with the latter being the Canonical one. It's just like with the one main Protagonist from Fate/Extra the Male one is the Canon hero. Back to my point: We could see Eve and Adam's memories that go even back to Prehistory, so this excuse makes no sense and shows how they don't care about the lore, they care about the idea of travelling to historical places more than about the Isu.

Overall the game doesn't matter for the lore, the Novel does, so you can tell that the game is already a bad story, if you are too desperate to use diffrent media to explain the plot. Play it for the fun, like how Young Ezio would act.

raddevbor
08-05-2018, 08:43 PM
This reminds me of that utterly lame decision to magically camouflage Evie Frye during stealth, in Syndicate. Oh, wait, isn't Odyssey being developed (mainly) by the Syndicate team? Oh, the irony. :(

And now, for something completely different, we have another one episode from 'How Not To Be Seen' series. It's called "Shadow of Nyx".

Etelloca
08-06-2018, 11:09 PM
Kassandra is canon, as per the pre-game novel. Alexios is also canon, if he's the one you play and connect with. The Canon Police will in fact not raid your home and arrest you for feeling differently about who you think is the better protagonist. All that counts in this is your own experience with the game, on the day(s) you play it. That is all. Not any of the supposed 'PC agenda,' or 'patriarchal overtones,' or any other political bent of any sort. Just, when/if you sit down in front of your screen and turn on the game, please, allow yourself the luxury of enjoying it for what it is, not what you feel it should be or represent in the wider scheme of things. Turn off the internal mental drama-generator; we all get enough of that in our day-to-day as it is, right?

Also, for the record, if it helps anyone; the way I've been seeing the player options in this game - character, dialogue, and romance choices to name the big ones - is that they are not Layla or any modern protagonist 'picking' what the Greek hero says or does. They are still just observing them, and you - as the player, an out-of-character source - are helping define the show that the modern protagonist is watching. That's all. It's exactly the same difference as the player-character making any other choice in the game, such as how to take down a fort; some modern protagonists might see a slick infiltration, while others are witness to a gates-charging slugfest. Maybe the modern protagonists plugging into Odyssey are overseeing a cold-hearted murder-mercenary, who never laughs at jokes and only wants revenge. Or maybe they are watching a bright, happy soul who just wants to do right by the people they love.

Does another player's choices matter to your playthrough? No. Nothing I do, certainly, is going to impact your narrative or your playstyle. As one of the developers so eloquently put it when asked about the reasoning behind offering character and romance choices:

"You do you."

I am happy to say that I fully intend to do exactly that, and am thankful to be given the choice to do so.

FlyingMan78
08-08-2018, 05:39 PM
^^ This exactly! I can't agree with you more, I think that's the intention of Ubisoft, to make players to build their own character and their own stories. Maybe future entries will do like Mass Effect, reading choices in savegames and building the story around them, for example, speaking of Kassandra as Layla's ancestor for some players, and Alexios for others.

joelsantos24
08-08-2018, 09:02 PM
^^ This exactly! I can't agree with you more, I think that's the intention of Ubisoft, to make players to build their own character and their own stories. Maybe future entries will do like Mass Effect, reading choices in savegames and building the story around them, for example, speaking of Kassandra as Layla's ancestor for some players, and Alexios for others.
Fair enough. On the other hand, that's not really AC. There's no room in this fictional universe, for the "creation of characters or stories". You're reliving the memories of ancestors, so, there's really no margin whatsoever for that kind of proceeding.

Olympus2018
08-10-2018, 06:34 PM
I read that on 5th October (with the release of the game) a novel will be published.
The novel speaks about the story of Kassandra and her journey.
So is Kassandra the canon protagonist of the story and Alexios only an add???
I like them both, but now I am confused.
In order to respect Lore I have to play as Kassandra??

Odyssey is a game, so it doesn't have to adhere to historical reality. In the real ancient Greece, there would be no Kassandra as Tomb Raider kind of warrior. Heck, even Tomb Raider is fictional. So there would be only Alexios in ancient Greece... Actually, Alexios is a name that did not exist back then. It would have to be Alexander, not Alexios..... Alexios is a Byzantine period's name. It is Greek as well but more modern.

MangoFett1967
09-03-2018, 04:07 PM
Well, I do know that in an interview I read with the developers at Ubisoft Quebec that in the beginning stages/planning of the game they had envisioned only the Kassandra character, and added the choice of Alexios later. So it seems that Kassandra is the 'real' main character.

MnemonicSyntax
09-03-2018, 05:27 PM
Well, I do know that in an interview I read with the developers at Ubisoft Quebec that in the beginning stages/planning of the game they had envisioned only the Kassandra character, and added the choice of Alexios later. So it seems that Kassandra is the 'real' main character.

Do you have a link to that?

MangoFett1967
09-03-2018, 06:07 PM
Unfortunately, no. It's just a general memory from a paper magazine I got.

TaleraRis
09-06-2018, 04:52 AM
If she is the "real" protagonist, why is the status of Alexios? I was annoyed with the CE for that.

FlyingMan78
09-06-2018, 06:29 AM
If she is the "real" protagonist, why is the status of Alexios? I was annoyed with the CE for that.

She isn't the real protagonist, it's the one you make for yourself. Ubisoft only said that Kass is canon in the context of the BOOK. The BOOK can only have one protagonist. If only they had made two series of books, each one with either character, there wouldn't be this problem some people created for themselves.

Now, if you'll excuse me...

https://media.giphy.com/media/CTkfgLJgbFF96/giphy.gif

joelsantos24
09-06-2018, 12:01 PM
If she is the "real" protagonist, why is the status of Alexios? I was annoyed with the CE for that.
The official word is that Kassandra is the (real) protagonist, and the canonical structure of this story, will be portrayed in the book. There're rumours that Alexios might be her brother, and so on, but the fact remains that they're portrayed as having lived exactly the same lives and having precisely the same memories, which is literally impossible. If this was treated as Syndicate was, having two protagonist with separate and distinct sets of memories and experiences, there wouldn't be any problems. But no, you take exactly the same steps, visit exactly the same places, meet exactly the same people and do exactly the same deeds as the other protagonist, whist being a different person. Unfathomable.

ProdiGurl
09-06-2018, 01:10 PM
If this was treated as Syndicate was, having two protagonist with separate and distinct sets of memories and experiences, there wouldn't be any problems. But no, you take exactly the same steps, visit exactly the same places, meet exactly the same people and do exactly the same deeds as the other protagonist, whist being a different person. Unfathomable.
Technically, this really isn't true.... in every AC game while playing at home, we ARE taking different steps & reliving completely different memories since we all do our kills differently, hunt different animals, kill different people, wear different outfits, use different modes of transportation, do side missions in a completely different order (skipping some entirely), different amounts of money, and have different weapons/skillsets all within the same game.
It's about how you play the character your own way and you've been doing it this way for years in a technical sense no matter which Assassin you played as 'Canon'.

By the way, I did hear Ubi's reveal that they are of the same bloodline, so yes, they are blood relatives in some way.

darklion2043
09-06-2018, 01:33 PM
Technically you are wrong ProdiGurl if we talk about old AC games. We do different things in all games when exploring but at main road we are attached to Story. Everybody can understand that we live one life at this game but have got two hereos. This is what joelsantos24 said. Not exploring mode or completing %100 game by full sync, only real part(main) quests.

ProdiGurl
09-06-2018, 02:32 PM
Technically you are wrong ProdiGurl if we talk about old AC games. We do different things in all games when exploring but at main road we are attached to Story. Everybody can understand that we live one life at this game but have got two hereos. This is what joelsantos24 said. Not exploring mode or completing %100 game by full sync, only real part(main) quests.
This kinda proves the point tho - even if you're doing side missions (explore mode, etc.) you're playing that Canon character differently than others who are playing them. That's what's actually happening.
Even w/ full sync in early games during main missions, you could kill different guards in a different order, enter the area a different way ... there were only certain criteria the story Sequence demanded (no detection at all, kill w/ hidden blade only, etc.), it didn't spell out the entire mission.
In fact, in Far Cry 4, some of the Assassin and hunting missions require you to carry it out a specific way too - no detection, kill with shotgun only, kill with bow & arrow only, etc

The only real difference here is that one group of players isn't able to remove their formal demands on AC Lore even tho they technically play the game/Assassin differently than everyone else.
Others are just willing to bypass the strict Lore demand and don't have as much a problem playing that way.
I can appreciate players feelings on it, I just don't see that anything really changes when it comes right down to it. I don't care what someone else is doing with Alexios or Kassandra... or Ezio for that matter. What I care about is my own game experience.

FlyingMan78
09-06-2018, 03:01 PM
The official word is that Kassandra is the (real) protagonist, and the canonical structure of this story, will be portrayed in the book.

No, my friend, that's YOUR interpretation of this:

https://i.imgur.com/k3FkRcz.jpg

This here is also MY interpretation, but I only see this guy saying that for people who just want a linear story, with no choices of dialogue or character to make, there is a novelization of it. For the rest, there is the game.


There're rumours that Alexios might be her brother

Oh, good, a rumour. So it must be true, then!


but the fact remains that they're portrayed as having lived exactly the same lives and having precisely the same memories, which is literally impossible

It IS impossible. Because, again, it's YOUR interpretation of the situation. I just see it as a game device, not part of lore itself. A player won't be playing with Kassandra AND Alexios in the same savegame. You must not have ever played Mass Effect, from what I see. Because it's the same story for both genders of Shepard, I can assure you.

But I know I can't convince you of anything, I seriously doubt anything or anyone can. But, you seem to listen to "official word", so there is that:

https://i.imgur.com/78soRvG.jpg


The only real difference here is that one group of players isn't able to remove their formal demands on AC Lore even tho they technically play the game/Assassin differently than everyone else.
Others are just willing to bypass the strict Lore demand and don't have as much a problem playing that way.
I can appreciate players feelings on it, I just don't see that anything really changes when it comes right down to it. I don't care what someone else is doing with Alexios or Kassandra... or Ezio for that matter. What I care about is my own game experience.

Prodi, are you sure you aren't a female version of me from another dimension? :D

darklion2043
09-06-2018, 03:24 PM
Let's clear this. I talk about a logical mistakes at narrative. But you explain me, all time we do different things at all games. I know that all of us play these games very different ways. My post about scores, goals and we can reach to solution different ways too. But in here I explain you that we see same end whatever we do and results not change old AC games. Same life means this.

We meet Leonardo da Vinci with Ezio's Mother, can't kill Rodrigo Borgia at the vault under the Vatican, only kill Cesare Borgia leave him at walls, can't kill Charles Lee at the harbor. etc. They are cutscenes from main missions and write many of them. These are games narratives, main roads. These are our heroes lives. Again say not talking about how we reach that goal but talk about results.

Please don't pull these that I don't want any evolution. New combat system, ability system changes and not repeat same side missions are so good. But in here there is a big logical mistake about narrative. Also give us a canon charecter at this game and finish Juno at comics too. This is not affect our gameplay but dissappear many things in this deep story with choice dialogue option.

All of these my thoughts.

ProdiGurl
09-06-2018, 07:56 PM
Prodi, are you sure you aren't a female version of me from another dimension? :D
I'm really starting to wonder lol I use alot of gifs & meme's like you too .. not here cuz I haven't figured out how to paste them in this forum & that's ok bcuz they'll only get me in trouble :D

It might boil down to some AC fans just not being RPG fans and in that case, I totally get it and empathize. I don't consider myself a dedicated RPG fan, but I don't dislike it either.
If a game interests me and it's RPG, I'm all in. But I won't play a game just becuz it's an RPG. I'm more neutral on it in general.

cawatrooper9
09-06-2018, 08:08 PM
not here cuz I haven't figured out how to paste them in this forum & that's ok bcuz they'll only get me in trouble :D



A little off topic, but I guess if a PSA on this could help other people, too-

In the "Reply" box when posting, you should see an Image icon. Click on it, and paste an the Image URL from the picture that you would like to post.

To get the Image URL, you'll need to have right-clicked on the picture in your browser, and select "Copy Image Address". Then, simply come back here and paste it into that box.

Hope that helps... and yeah, don't post anything that'll actually get you in trouble. :rolleyes:

ProdiGurl
09-06-2018, 10:47 PM
A little off topic, but I guess if a PSA on this could help other people, too-

In the "Reply" box when posting, you should see an Image icon. Click on it, and paste an the Image URL from the picture that you would like to post.

To get the Image URL, you'll need to have right-clicked on the picture in your browser, and select "Copy Image Address". Then, simply come back here and paste it into that box.

Hope that helps... and yeah, don't post anything that'll actually get you in trouble. :rolleyes:
Ok, I'm trying to do this here as an experiment - picking a nice harmless gif :D
I think it worked!!! How xciting lol

http://33.media.tumblr.com/d696445b45e540a22b810bab2dccf4a6/tumblr_ne135elZmC1tf767po1_500.gif

joelsantos24
09-07-2018, 12:13 PM
Technically, this really isn't true.... in every AC game while playing at home, we ARE taking different steps & reliving completely different memories since we all do our kills differently, hunt different animals, kill different people, wear different outfits, use different modes of transportation, do side missions in a completely different order (skipping some entirely), different amounts of money, and have different weapons/skillsets all within the same game.
It's about how you play the character your own way and you've been doing it this way for years in a technical sense no matter which Assassin you played as 'Canon'.
Those are technical aspects which no canonical structure could ever anticipate, control, trace or account for. Moreover, this is an open world game, so the players are directly induced to taking certain liberties within that scenario. It's one of those factors on which we must suppress our own disbelief, for the sake of the experience.

By the way, I did hear Ubi's reveal that they are of the same bloodline, so yes, they are blood relatives in some way.

You didn't quote the first part of my statement, which, I believe, is the fundamental part of the problem. One which, strangely, no one here is, apparently, willing to even address or mention. Kassandra is one person. Alexios is a second, different person. Kassandra lived one specific life. Alexios lived another. Kassandra and Alexios, being different persons, had to live different lives and experiences, and therefore, must have different memories.

This is the real problem, here: different people having the same memories of the same exact events/experiences. It's one thing, to suppress your ow disbelief about improbable events/actions, but it's another, completely different, to ask people to suppress their own disbelief about the literally impossible.


Technically you are wrong ProdiGurl if we talk about old AC games. We do different things in all games when exploring but at main road we are attached to Story. Everybody can understand that we live one life at this game but have got two hereos. This is what joelsantos24 said. Not exploring mode or completing %100 game by full sync, only real part(main) quests.
Exactly. I think many people are focussing on the minutiae of every single action in an open world game, in an attempt to rationalise that which is literally impossible. That is, having two different people that have the same, exact memories, and apparently, lived the same, exact lives. If you have two protagonists, then, they must each have their own, different set of memories, because they had to live different lives.

Betrayedunbound
09-07-2018, 02:10 PM
I am worried the choice will mean dull characters or poor voice acting with no emotion, I also plan on playing Alexios. also isn't there a choice to side wit Athens or Sparta? not sure what side is right or which side would be aligned with assassins had they existed at the time.

Olympus2018
09-07-2018, 07:09 PM
I am worried the choice will mean dull characters or poor voice acting with no emotion, I also plan on playing Alexios. also isn't there a choice to side wit Athens or Sparta? not sure what side is right or which side would be aligned with assassins had they existed at the time.

Ideally, you side with Spartans and after you finish the game, you replay in New Game Plus mode and side with the Athenians.

ProdiGurl
09-07-2018, 07:43 PM
I am worried the choice will mean dull characters or poor voice acting with no emotion, I also plan on playing Alexios. also isn't there a choice to side wit Athens or Sparta? not sure what side is right or which side would be aligned with assassins had they existed at the time.
I have no idea what our choice options will be but in one of the videos I saw it was brought up that facial expression graphics suffer and probably will in this game. Some of us were already noticing that but I figured it would be fixed closer to release date, but now I think it's staying that way.

Betrayedunbound
09-08-2018, 01:11 AM
im worried they wont show much emotion cause I loved the way bayek did

SerraShaar
09-08-2018, 03:03 AM
I have no idea what our choice options will be but in one of the videos I saw it was brought up that facial expression graphics suffer and probably will in this game. Some of us were already noticing that but I figured it would be fixed closer to release date, but now I think it's staying that way.

maybe they be fixed with patch later on ? They can always do that...

FlyingMan78
09-08-2018, 06:40 AM
First videos were a little cringey (faces in cutscenes, that is). I certainly don't expect a Last of Us or Horizon Zero Dawn level of facial expression, but what I saw until now is nowhere near to Mass Effect Andromeda level of awkward faces. Only weeks to find out!

FlyingMan78
09-08-2018, 07:39 AM
Ok, I'm trying to do this here as an experiment - picking a nice harmless gif :D
I think it worked!!! How xciting lol

https://media.giphy.com/media/SJjMIFFsXPCuLvMacP/giphy.gif

ProdiGurl
09-08-2018, 10:07 AM
im worried they wont show much emotion cause I loved the way bayek did
Me too - one of our best Assassin characters. They said it had to do w/ RPG's & facial appearance that suffers that way but it seems to affect Alexios more than Kassandra. I wish I could remember which video so I could link it here.


maybe they be fixed with patch later on ? They can always do that...
Hoping - but then unless a game is really messed up, I normally don't do patches bcuz they can mess up other things in the game that I don't want to lose.
They said graphics quality was brought down in a previous Origins patch? I played offline & didn't dl any just to be safe. My game was fine without it - except for a glitch w/ all Reda content.
Reda offered me no missions but then I was good w/ that becuz there were so many to do, and I was leveling too fast.


First videos were a little cringey (faces in cutscenes, that is). I certainly don't expect a Last of Us or Horizon Zero Dawn level of facial expression, but what I saw until now is nowhere near to Mass Effect Andromeda level of awkward faces. Only weeks to find out!
Ya I played that - if you looked up cringey in the dictionary, you'd find MEA there. lol The Youtube compilations were hilarious :D



https://media.giphy.com/media/SJjMIFFsXPCuLvMacP/giphy.gif
*takes a bow* - if only I knew how easy it was all this time. :/ I meant to thank Cawatrooper - Thank you!
What's hard is trying not to overdo them :D

Betrayedunbound
09-08-2018, 11:01 AM
does Alexios really show less emotion? he was the one I was going to choose.

ProdiGurl
09-08-2018, 11:57 AM
In my opinion from what I've watched, it's not that there's so little emotion, it's more that his animation looks 'wonky' or... off.
I'm playing Alexios first then I'll play Kassandra using more of the mythological skills & abilities -
I think that way I'll get a wider range of playstyles, see results w/ combat & outcomes of dialog choices.
I'm almost more worried about serious bugs - I remember in ACRevelations I thought Ezio appeared a little 'off' sometimes too.
I'm sure all these options will keep this forum busy.

Betrayedunbound
09-08-2018, 12:03 PM
I hope they add as much care to him as Kassandra. he reminds me of the typical Spartan hero.

SerraShaar
09-08-2018, 12:55 PM
Ya I played that - if you looked up cringey in the dictionary, you'd find MEA there. lol The Youtube compilations were hilarious

did you see the 'Yoga with Stone'' ? OMG..its sooo hilarious XD Highly recommand it!

nvm lol check this out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jt0fm5sk20

yeah , I come from BW games...so I don't see any issue with how the characters look in ACO...LOL...I think BW broke my retina a long time ago :D

ProdiGurl
09-08-2018, 03:50 PM
did you see the 'Yoga with Stone'' ? OMG..its sooo hilarious XD Highly recommand it!

nvm lol check this out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jt0fm5sk20

yeah , I come from BW games...so I don't see any issue with how the characters look in ACO...LOL...I think BW broke my retina a long time ago :D
LOLLL hilarious - so bad. :D
Ya, Alexios can't be that messed up, right? :D

Betrayedunbound
09-08-2018, 05:18 PM
I wonder how the story will change depending on who you choose.

ProdiGurl
09-08-2018, 05:38 PM
The impression I get from information is that the changes are btwn choices you make, not your character. Both characters will be doing the same thing as the another and can romance the same people.

Betrayedunbound
09-08-2018, 05:55 PM
I just heard it affects the way people react to you

Olympus2018
09-08-2018, 08:04 PM
I wonder how the story will change depending on who you choose.

Ubisoft said that it doesn't change anything. They only feature both Alexios and Kassandra because Social Justice Warriors asked for gender diversity, feminism and inclusion. LOL

SerraShaar
09-08-2018, 08:32 PM
Ubisoft said that it doesn't change anything. They only feature both Alexios and Kassandra because Social Justice Warriors asked for gender diversity, feminism and inclusion. LOL

Or maybe , because it's about time the game had a gender choice...? ever though that hum? God...you peoples see agenda everywhere...yet ramming your own down peoples throath...oh the hypocrisie...

Olympus2018
09-08-2018, 08:53 PM
Or maybe , because it's about time the game had a gender choice...? ever though that hum? God...you peoples see agenda everywhere...yet ramming your own down peoples throath...oh the hypocrisie...

Using your logic, God of War should include Nemesis as an alternative choice for those who don't want to play as Kratos. Is that what you are saying? The only hypocricy comes from your side because if you played a game where the main character was an Amazon, you wouldn't ask for a male Amazon option. In ancient Greece just like in most ancient or even modern societies, warriors are overwhelmingly males. And the reason for that is not misogyny...

SerraShaar
09-08-2018, 10:17 PM
Using your logic, God of War should include Nemesis as an alternative choice for those who don't want to play as Kratos. Is that what you are saying? The only hypocricy comes from your side because if you played a game where the main character was an Amazon, you wouldn't ask for a male Amazon option. In ancient Greece just like in most ancient or even modern societies, warriors are overwhelmingly males. And the reason for that is not misogyny...

I actually would..and you know why ? because I don't care for accuracy . I'm for everyone enjoying a game .

FlyingMan78
09-09-2018, 06:24 AM
Ubisoft said that it doesn't change anything. They only feature both Alexios and Kassandra because Social Justice Warriors asked for gender diversity, feminism and inclusion. LOL

Using your logic, God of War should include Nemesis as an alternative choice for those who don't want to play as Kratos. Is that what you are saying? The only hypocricy comes from your side because if you played a game where the main character was an Amazon, you wouldn't ask for a male Amazon option. In ancient Greece just like in most ancient or even modern societies, warriors are overwhelmingly males. And the reason for that is not misogyny...

I'm surprised, Olympus. I thought you were one of the people here, myself included, defending this game as an RPG, and there's no RPG if you can't choose who to role-play. Would you attribute Fallout series' gender choosing to SJWs as well?

Olympus2018
09-09-2018, 09:18 AM
I'm surprised, Olympus. I thought you were one of the people here, myself included, defending this game as an RPG, and there's no RPG if you can't choose who to role-play. Would you attribute Fallout series' gender choosing to SJWs as well?

Witcher 3 was an RPG too. Did you choose among many genders or ethnicities etc.? No. Where exactly does choice end? How many choices should you have? Why only gender choices? Let's extend this to ethnicity, race, disability, gender identity, sexual orientation and so on and so forth. Does that make any sense? Could you play a female role in GTA? I don't think so....

And to answer your question, yes, Fallout gender option was most likely the result of politics and SJW's pressure. I am not saying it is a bad thing that you can play as Alexios or Kassandra but it shouldn't be the product of political pressure because once Pandora's box is open, it won't close again. And where exactly does this end? In gender option or should it extend to all other things that I have mentioned?

Olympus2018
09-09-2018, 09:24 AM
I actually would..and you know why ? because I don't care for accuracy . I'm for everyone enjoying a game .

If you really mean what you say then gender option is not enough. It's not inclusive enough. SJWs want more than gender option: Ethnicity, race, disability, age, gender identity, sexual orientation etc. etc. they want to include everything. Is it possible? I don't think so...

FlyingMan78
09-09-2018, 10:26 AM
Witcher 3 was an RPG too. Did you choose among many genders or ethnicities etc.? No. Where exactly does choice end? How many choices should you have? Why only gender choices? Let's extend this to ethnicity, race, disability, gender identity, sexual orientation and so on and so forth.

Like many RPGs have done since the beginning of time. The name of the genre is ROLE PLAYING game. Witcher 3 isn’t the epitome of the RPG genre. There are some sub-genres in it. too. One of the characteristics of some of them is being able to choose your avatar, with all facial features as possible to choose from. Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, the tabletop games…All of them let you choose your gender and race. About sexual orientation, some of them even let you choose who to mingle with, too. As Odyssey does now.

And what it makes Witcher 3 an RPG and how it’s different from many games who do similar stuff, is another debate. I won’t argue about that.


Could you play a female role in GTA? I don't think so....

GTA isn’t even an RPG. You have to compare this game with similar ones in the same genre. But even Saints Row, while not being an RPG either, lets you customize the character as well.


And to answer your question, yes, Fallout gender option was most likely the result of politics and SJW's pressure.

Preposterous. The first Fallout first came out in 1997, the term SJW didn’t even exist. Nor this paranoia about the inclusion of women in society either. It was more like game developers seeing women as videogame players and potential customers as well.


If you really mean what you say then gender option is not enough. It's not inclusive enough. SJWs want more than gender option: Ethnicity, race, disability, age, gender identity, sexual orientation etc. etc. they want to include everything. Is it possible? I don't think so...

And why not? All game developers want to reach as many people as possible. Money talks. That's why some offer as many choices as they can in order to everyone having a custom experience fit to them.

Olympus2018
09-09-2018, 11:32 AM
Like many RPGs have done since the beginning of time. The name of the genre is ROLE PLAYING game. Witcher 3 isn’t the epitome of the RPG genre. There are some sub-genres in it. too. One of the characteristics of some of them is being able to choose your avatar, with all facial features as possible to choose from. Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, the tabletop games…All of them let you choose your gender and race. About sexual orientation, some of them even let you choose who to mingle with, too. As Odyssey does now.

And what it makes Witcher 3 an RPG and how it’s different from many games who do similar stuff, is another debate. I won’t argue about that.



GTA isn’t even an RPG. You have to compare this game with similar ones in the same genre. But even Saints Row, while not being an RPG either, lets you customize the character as well.



Preposterous. The first Fallout first came out in 1997, the term SJW didn’t even exist. Nor this paranoia about the inclusion of women in society either. It was more like game developers seeing women as videogame players and potential customers as well.



And why not? All game developers want to reach as many people as possible. Money talks. That's why some offer as many choices as they can in order to everyone having a custom experience fit to them.

SJWs have existed since the 1960s, actually. Remember the Civil Rights movement? They were not known as SJWs, but that's exactly what they were. Again, I am pro-choice but not when that is merely a political tool. Once again, you fail to explain why gender option is inclusive enough.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMwR6BQCDY0

FlyingMan78
09-09-2018, 12:03 PM
SJW is a derogative term made up by reactionaries, the civil rights were certainly not that. Political tool? Of who? Politics? The powers-that-be? That's tin foil thinking. But fine, gaming is ruined, I fail, you win, pat-pat. Sorry I mistook you for an open minded person.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Gpy65Qs05T49G/giphy.gif

ProdiGurl
09-09-2018, 03:34 PM
SJW is very real - the issue is what their pushing. That's what the point is to me... it's an individual issue thing. Using male/female is fine it's when we get into 200 genders territory, etc.
Is dialog going to have reflect all the new silliness? I hope not!

FlyingMan78
09-09-2018, 04:11 PM
SJW is very real - the issue is what their pushing. That's what the point is to me... it's an individual issue thing. Using male/female is fine it's when we get into 200 genders territory, etc.
Is dialog going to have reflect all the new silliness? I hope not!

That's not the issue here, Prodi. I don't believe in 200 gender identities, either, nor in they'd have to have forcibly a place in a videogame. Another thing is that I think it's good they'd find their place in society, in general.
But the discussion was about having the choice to pick race, age, and gender (male or female) in a videogame, you know, what RPGs usually let you to do when you build your character. Then this pretention was demoted as "SJW". And then compared to the civil rights movement. It's a videogame we're talking here, not the real world. And we're pretending to be someone else in every game.

Olympus2018
09-09-2018, 05:30 PM
SJW is a derogative term made up by reactionaries, the civil rights were certainly not that. Political tool? Of who? Politics? The powers-that-be? That's tin foil thinking. But fine, gaming is ruined, I fail, you win, pat-pat. Sorry I mistook you for an open minded person.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Gpy65Qs05T49G/giphy.gif

You are not open minded when you are politically correct and you are 101% politically correct. Gaming is about playing the role of someone else not necessarily your own gender. SJWs are psychopaths.

FlyingMan78
09-09-2018, 06:07 PM
You are not open minded when you are politically correct and you are 101% politically correct.

I'm not ANYTHING, you know NOTHING about me to begin with. And stop mixing politics and videogames, not everything is as politized as you think.


Gaming is about playing the role of someone else not necessarily your own gender.

That's what I've been trying to say all along. Are you agreeing with me, or not? I swear I don't get you AT ALL.


SJWs are psychopaths.

Because it's wrong to look for equality for everyone, right? I guess you're right, I'm too polite to say what I really think of that stupidity.

joshoolhorst
09-09-2018, 06:55 PM
Honestly I wish now that there wasn't a novelization/tie in whatever with OD because it will lead to confusion no matter if it is the canon representation or not or else things like this happen.

Olympus2018
09-09-2018, 09:24 PM
That's what I've been trying to say all along. Are you agreeing with me, or not? I swear I don't get you AT ALL.



Because it's wrong to look for equality for everyone, right? I guess you're right, I'm too polite to say what I really think of that stupidity.

You don't even agree with yourself! First you said that gaming is about playing the role of someone else (not necessarily of your own gender) and then you say that gender options are necessary. Well, if you can play the role of another gender, you don't really need that gender option. You can play without it! So, make up your mind.

Equality against the law is one thing, entertainment and video games are something different. YOU want to bring politics in the gaming industry and you cannot hide it. Video games do not need civil rights. Although I am pro-choice, there is no need for gender/sexuality/race/ethnicity options in games. The choice between Alexios and Kassandra is a positive thing but by no means it is necessary.

Eagle-Bearer
09-09-2018, 09:25 PM
Both characters are canon but Kassandra is canon for the novel

FlyingMan78
09-09-2018, 10:02 PM
You don't even agree with yourself! First you said that gaming is about playing the role of someone else (not necessarily of your own gender) and then you say that gender options are necessary. Well, if you can play the role of another gender, you don't really need that gender option. You can play without it! So, make up your mind.

Equality against the law is one thing, entertainment and video games are something different. YOU want to bring politics in the gaming industry and you cannot hide it. Video games do not need civil rights. Although I am pro-choice, there is no need for gender/sexuality/race/ethnicity options in games. The choice between Alexios and Kassandra is a positive thing but by no means it is necessary.

I seriously can't believe it. It's you, pal, you don't make sense at all and you twist words at your convenience, I don't know what's worse.
First, gender options are needed if you want to play as someone else than yourself. Got it? I'm a man, but I want to play as a female elf or an ogre. How do I do that? That's riiight...

Second, YOU brought politics in here, not me. I kept talking about the difference between the real world and a videogame. "Politically correct", "civil rights", "SJW", "political tool"...Remember? Your words, not mine. You don't need it? Fine. But RPGs are about playing someone else by choosing exactly who you want to play. ROLE. PLAYING. GAME.

Third, you spent ALL month defending Odyssey's gameplay time, saying that it's like 200 hours or more by playing BOTH characters (100+100). And now you say that playing the other part is not necessary? Unbelievable.

The worst part is that I sided with you most of the time, since I got here. But I will not take part in future threads that got you in them, pal. My IQ got lowered by reading you.

So long.

AnimusLover
09-09-2018, 10:05 PM
And to answer your question, yes, Fallout gender option was most likely the result of politics and SJW's pressure. I am not saying it is a bad thing that you can play as Alexios or Kassandra but it shouldn't be the product of political pressure because once Pandora's box is open, it won't close again. And where exactly does this end? In gender option or should it extend to all other things that I have mentioned?

This has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in gaming... Fallout takes place in a post apocalyptic nuked world... everyone is on the frontlines in a survival-esque setting like that. I don't see how they could NOT include character customisation. The lone survivor could be literally anyone.
You have no proof whatsoever that it's as a result of politics and tbh I think YOU are making it political.

ProdiGurl
09-10-2018, 12:07 AM
I'd join in, but my internet/DSL is on the fritz - - fone co. is supposed to fix in our area today...

Black_Widow9
09-10-2018, 03:08 AM
Insults or political insults are neither welcome nor wanted on the Forums. I suggest you stop now.

I suggest we get back on topic, remember the topic?


I read that on 5th October (with the release of the game) a novel will be published.
The novel speaks about the story of Kassandra and her journey.
So is Kassandra the canon protagonist of the story and Alexios only an add???
I like them both, but now I am confused.
In order to respect Lore I have to play as Kassandra??

ProdiGurl
09-10-2018, 11:27 AM
Both characters are canon but Kassandra is canon for the novel

This might be the best answer? Anyone can play the way they want - I always prefer male protags unless a female is done so well that they don't annoy me or look really kool. In this game I'm playing both for sure.
- I don't understand why playing Alexios, even if he isn't "Canon" is a useless waste of time?
(internet/DSL still not working so far today except for a few minutes then goes back out for hours)

joelsantos24
09-10-2018, 04:12 PM
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/353/279/e31.jpg

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Both characters are canon but Kassandra is canon for the novel
Well, this is something I can't really understand. The book series was always meant to represent the novelisation of the games. Mostly, the books always encompass much more information and details, because you can only include so much of the story into the game, but they're the literary representation of the games, nonetheless. From my understanding, the books don't stand alone as an alternate dimension of AC, but must be regarded in conjunction or in parallel with the games. I know many fans don't give two thoughts about the novels (or even the comics, to be precise), but they're not alternate storylines or second level merchandise.

I'm not in charge of anything and I certainly don't make policy regarding the AC series' media or canon, but that's how I see the different features inside the franchise. If Kassandra is the canonical protagonist, then she's probably the canonical protagonist, by definition. I don't think there's any need to differentiate media.

ProdiGurl
09-11-2018, 01:47 AM
If Ubi's offering both, but putting one in a book, it doesn't mean she's the 'only' canon. If both are offered, both could be, they chose her for book version - can't use both.
I don't know what their idea for Lore is/how it's explained, but both are direct bloodline of Leonidas.
For some, it just doesn't matter - like myself. What someone else does w/ either one in their own gameplay doesn't affect my gameplay any & I don't have to envision a perfect scenario to make it fun. =)

Can't explain more till I get my internet solved. New hardware being mailed - till then I get about 5 minutes of internet time when modem reboots and it actually works.
Thursday probly.

TaleraRis
09-14-2018, 04:13 AM
It IS impossible. Because, again, it's YOUR interpretation of the situation. I just see it as a game device, not part of lore itself. A player won't be playing with Kassandra AND Alexios in the same savegame. You must not have ever played Mass Effect, from what I see. Because it's the same story for both genders of Shepard, I can assure you.


There's one very important difference between AC and Mass Effect. You were writing the story as it happened in Mass Effect. With AC, you are living a story that has already happened. There were small deviations such as choosing this side mission or exploring that tomb that you need to suspend disbelief a little and attribute as just gameplay features. But the reason that there is such a dissonance with this is because there has always been a canon character or characters and you lived their unique life through their eyes. It also gives a kinship with other players because we all follow the same story and live the same happiness or heartache in it.

TaleraRis
09-14-2018, 04:25 AM
I know many fans don't give two thoughts about the novels (or even the comics, to be precise), but they're not alternate storylines or second level merchandise.


Exactly! I mean, look at Cross. He was comics only and then found a way to weave him in. And Sofia from the movie showing up in Origins. It's all part of the same universe.

My big question is, assuming we get another, what happens with the Encyclopedia? That is supposed to be the book as far as lore and how it all ties together is concerned.