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View Full Version : Kensei/Zerk Zone Attack Spam



Erhanninja
06-21-2018, 10:32 AM
Itís absolutely ridicilious how Kensei and Zerk zone attacks getting spammed in this game now especially Kensei. Itís almost guaranteed. It comes out instantly and can be used in and out of combo and can be cancelled into anything. While we rest of normal folk have to wait 4-5 seconds to throw one and even then itís hit and miss. I throw one heavy comes out I try to throw again light comes out. Not to mention HA rubbish they have and all that. We guys play normal heroes donít have neither HA or UB. We rely on interrupting to attack. But Canít interrupt these guys. Zerk nearl has constant HA all the time. Then godly feints on top purely guessing game.

DrinkinMehStella
06-21-2018, 10:40 AM
wardens zone? raiders zone? orochi zone? PK zone? most zones are super fast and unless your already guarding that side will always result in getting hit and most spam zones because of their speed, yes kensei zone is really fast but so are many others.

Charmzzz
06-21-2018, 11:46 AM
wardens zone? raiders zone? orochi zone? PK zone? most zones are super fast and unless your already guarding that side will always result in getting hit and most spam zones because of their speed, yes kensei zone is really fast but so are many others.

But Kensei Zone deals 20 Damage and is a Heavy (concerning parry punish), PK only 15 and is a Light. Warden has a super long whiff animation. Raider is 900ms, you cant compare that to 500ms. And Kensei Zone has a 180į or even more arc, it is just TOO good in Dominion imo. The only comparable Zone has Orochi, but that has a much smaller arc.

DrinkinMehStella
06-21-2018, 11:58 AM
But Kensei Zone deals 20 Damage and is a Heavy (concerning parry punish), PK only 15 and is a Light. Warden has a super long whiff animation. Raider is 900ms, you cant compare that to 500ms. And Kensei Zone has a 180į or even more arc, it is just TOO good in Dominion imo. The only comparable Zone has Orochi, but that has a much smaller arc.

compensating for his slow lights and slow heavies then. ok bring the damage down to 15 there we go problem solved. raiders is UB and gets spammed in 4v4. my point is he's in the best place he's been in ever and in most tool kits theres something thats considered OP.

Siegfried-Z
06-21-2018, 01:08 PM
Well yes you have to keep attention to zone by keeping your guard on the good direction..

Almost every char has very usefull zone in the game now.. and btw they just nerf Zerk zone.

And they don't think about nerfing kensei one hopefully

Charmzzz
06-21-2018, 01:11 PM
compensating for his slow lights and slow heavies then. ok bring the damage down to 15 there we go problem solved. raiders is UB and gets spammed in 4v4. my point is he's in the best place he's been in ever and in most tool kits theres something thats considered OP.

500ms Top Light, 600ms Side Light. Same as Warden, LB, etc pp...

Nerf the arc and damage on the first hit, then I am fine with it. I understand your point but right now Kensei is the new Nobushi. Have one in your team for AOE or bust...

DrinkinMehStella
06-21-2018, 01:22 PM
500ms Top Light, 600ms Side Light. Same as Warden, LB, etc pp...

Nerf the arc and damage on the first hit, then I am fine with it. I understand your point but right now Kensei is the new Nobushi. Have one in your team for AOE or bust...

keep the arc and maybe reduce damage to 15 because I see it as a anti gank measure that's when I use it most. im not using a chart on attack speed because I cab to search it I just remember someone saying he has some of the slowest heavies so I don't know exactly. Ive been playing a lot of kensei and although im doing well with him and in 4v4 he's does well but in higher level plays I find others just parry his lights and his heavies to easily even when i'm feinting a lot his side heavies and dash attacks are too telegraphed and easily parried more and more people are adapting to his play style and its getting difficult to not get parried but that for a different topic. His zone in my opinion yes its a bit fast, keep the arc, keep the speed and just change the damage he is probably the best anti gank hero right now.

Vakris_One
06-21-2018, 03:49 PM
But Kensei Zone deals 20 Damage and is a Heavy (concerning parry punish), PK only 15 and is a Light. Warden has a super long whiff animation. Raider is 900ms, you cant compare that to 500ms. And Kensei Zone has a 180į or even more arc, it is just TOO good in Dominion imo. The only comparable Zone has Orochi, but that has a much smaller arc.
Last time I checked parrying any zone only gives a heavy parry punish. None of them give a light parry punish whether that be PK, Kensei, Orochi, Warden, etc. Most zones of the same speed as Kensei's do 20 damage except PK's which is faster.

They can reduce the arc of his zone to make it less of a problem in team fights. However the Raider's unlocked zone in 4v4s is still a bigger problem in team fights in my opinion.

Vakris_One
06-21-2018, 03:56 PM
keep the arc and maybe reduce damage to 15 because I see it as a anti gank measure that's when I use it most. im not using a chart on attack speed because I cab to search it I just remember someone saying he has some of the slowest heavies so I don't know exactly. Ive been playing a lot of kensei and although im doing well with him and in 4v4 he's does well but in higher level plays I find others just parry his lights and his heavies to easily even when i'm feinting a lot his side heavies and dash attacks are too telegraphed and easily parried more and more people are adapting to his play style and its getting difficult to not get parried but that for a different topic. His zone in my opinion yes its a bit fast, keep the arc, keep the speed and just change the damage he is probably the best anti gank hero right now.
His 600ms side lights are free parries at high level. Comparing them to Warden's side lights as Charmzzz did is a moot point because once the Warden gets his rework he will have 500ms side lights. Kensei's Heavies are all 1000-12000ms, only the Shugoki charged heavies are slower as far as I know.

DrinkinMehStella
06-21-2018, 04:11 PM
His 600ms side lights are free parries at high level. Comparing them to Warden's side lights as Charmzzz did is a moot point because once the Warden gets his rework he will have 500ms side lights. Kensei's Heavies are all 1000-12000ms, only the Shugoki charged heavies are slower as far as I know.

so there we go kensei isn't really OP maybe to newer players who are not so competent with parrying and easily get confused by the side dash heavy. You cant just throw out heavies with kensei in 1v1 you have to purposely whiff attacks and get some HA going in order to land heavy and if that fails you have to rely on helm splitter and his finisher soft feints and his zone. So while his zone is powerful and very effective some times in higher plays where other strategies are not working then your have to rely on his zone.

Raiders zone although slow because of its UB properties it makes it a pain in 4v4 and he has the ability to cancel to bait a parry or GB or into stunning tap and he can cancel right up until the point of contact which makes it really hard to read sometimes and if OOS and he baits a zone then he gets a max punish and then if he does that again its another max punish obviously if you fall for it so its 50/50, raider is the most annoying to battle imo.

oYouFAILEDXD157
06-21-2018, 04:29 PM
Zone attacks as a whole are used so wrong. I thought the point of zones were to space out ganks and get people off of you. Why are they being used more then most chains or lights? Also they aren't even stopped on full block. Really annoying.

DrinkinMehStella
06-21-2018, 04:41 PM
Zone attacks as a whole are used so wrong. I thought the point of zones were to space out ganks and get people off of you. Why are they being used more then most chains or lights? Also they aren't even stopped on full block. Really annoying.

zone attacks were introduced in the game for killing multiple minions in one go and clearing space and then evolution began.

Vakris_One
06-21-2018, 05:08 PM
Zone attacks as a whole are used so wrong. I thought the point of zones were to space out ganks and get people off of you. Why are they being used more then most chains or lights? Also they aren't even stopped on full block. Really annoying.
The point was indeed for zones to be a crowd control option that every character has. But then players quickly realised that some characters like PK, Warden and Orochi had super fast zones and it has the advantage of not having to shift your guard stance to throw out the zone. During the height of the defensive meta and before more heroes got given unblockables the super fast zones were the only reliable way of opening up turtles. If your character didn't have a super fast zone or some kind of unblockable from neutral then he was pretty much screwed.

The devs decided to go with the flow on how players were using zones and decided to give more heroes super fast zones and the rest is history.

Arekonator
06-21-2018, 07:12 PM
The way kensei gets propelled forward by his zone to catch a victim that should be out of range is something that could be adjusted, but i dont see any problem otherwise.

DrinkinMehStella
06-22-2018, 09:50 AM
I fond the range of his zone isn't that great compared to wardens lunge forward or raiders its more the 360 degree arc people have an issue with

Charmzzz
06-22-2018, 02:27 PM
I fond the range of his zone isn't that great compared to wardens lunge forward or raiders its more the 360 degree arc people have an issue with

That's it. The arc is too wide. On Nobushi I can understand this, but on Kensei...


Last time I checked parrying any zone only gives a heavy parry punish. None of them give a light parry punish whether that be PK, Kensei, Orochi, Warden, etc. Most zones of the same speed as Kensei's do 20 damage except PK's which is faster.

They can reduce the arc of his zone to make it less of a problem in team fights. However the Raider's unlocked zone in 4v4s is still a bigger problem in team fights in my opinion.

100% sure that parrying a PK Zone (which is also marked as L in the spreadsheet) gives a Light parry punish. We can confirm this in the next days if you like. It is the only Light Zone Attack btw, every other Hero has a Heavy. I guess 400ms is Light, 500ms is Heavy in their minds. ;)

Erhanninja
06-23-2018, 06:57 PM
Yes obviously all points mentioned here are problems. But Iím talking about even something on more basic level here. I laugh at people when they say oh but itís 400ms or 500ms attack. Yeah on the paper it is. What I care about is how much time I have to react when I see attack coming. As far as I can see Kensei zone comes out instantly itís very very hard to parry unless I put my direction there and wait for the attack. Then good luck with lightning fast light attacks. Lets be honest and realistic here right. Especially kensei zone is free damage and we all know it. Everybody is just spamming it right left centre. Iím absolutely rubbish with Kensei. When I play with him all I do is zone and side dash into top light or UB. I win at least half of the fights.

ChampionRuby50g
06-23-2018, 10:43 PM
That's it. The arc is too wide. On Nobushi I can understand this, but on Kensei...



100% sure that parrying a PK Zone (which is also marked as L in the spreadsheet) gives a Light parry punish. We can confirm this in the next days if you like. It is the only Light Zone Attack btw, every other Hero has a Heavy. I guess 400ms is Light, 500ms is Heavy in their minds. ;)

Nah, pretty sure Shamans zone is considered a light, at least the 3rd swing in it is. When thatís been parried on me after I let the whole thing fly instead of feinting it and I got parried, the light parry mechanism kicked in and I got hit with a heavy. So while the whole zone might not be a light parts of it are.

Vakris_One
06-23-2018, 11:36 PM
That's it. The arc is too wide. On Nobushi I can understand this, but on Kensei...



100% sure that parrying a PK Zone (which is also marked as L in the spreadsheet) gives a Light parry punish. We can confirm this in the next days if you like. It is the only Light Zone Attack btw, every other Hero has a Heavy. I guess 400ms is Light, 500ms is Heavy in their minds. ;)
You're right. My mistake. I tested it in the training arena and got a light parry on her zone. They should then make all 500ms zones a light parry as well in my opinion since they're as quick as a light attack and all of them do more than the 15 damage of the PK's zone.

Seems wierd that the dev's definition of a light parry punish worthy zone stops at 400ms.

Knight_Raime
06-24-2018, 06:22 PM
But Kensei Zone deals 20 Damage and is a Heavy (concerning parry punish), PK only 15 and is a Light. Warden has a super long whiff animation. Raider is 900ms, you cant compare that to 500ms. And Kensei Zone has a 180į or even more arc, it is just TOO good in Dominion imo. The only comparable Zone has Orochi, but that has a much smaller arc.

Pk's zone isn't parryable on reaction though and is 400ms with negligable recovery allowing her to respond to even HAed moves if she zone cancels into them. wardens whiff doesn't really come into play consistently in duels or 4's where you'd possibly make a punish on it. Kensei's zone also doesn't have the flexibility pk's zone has. It's perfectly fair.