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Eternum10
06-17-2018, 10:35 PM
Got the game recently. Got 2 rank on Warden. After this i met Orochi with itlidht atack spaw, which is ubreal to block, my hero don't have time to change the stance. Orochi have to much attack speed or damage or stamina pull (one of this is must be nerfed). This hero destroys the new players, it's imposible to learn how to play, when you meet this imbalanced hero every match. Other one is Centurion, his combo is simply broken. To many damage, hard to parry, or interupt at all. Many new players could quit the game because almost all of the time they meet imblalnced heroes. Orochi is my oponent almost 70% of the time. And he is the most imbalanced hero on first 5 ranks and his light attack spam is a big problem

Knight_Raime
06-17-2018, 10:43 PM
Welcome to For honor. I encourage you to go into training and practice against the heros you struggle against. You have a lot of freedom and flexibility in training to set things up how you want them to be so you can train against specific situations.

I would advise that you try to ditch the attitude you currently have. Wether or not said heros in questions have balance problems by starting to blame the game so early instead of recognizing that you're new and things will be difficult at first you're setting yourself up to dislike the game early on. And also making it tougher for you to grow as a player. You shouldn't be so quick to call something as an issue when you're brand new to the game. It's not helpful for you or for anyone else.

bannex19
06-17-2018, 10:49 PM
The learning curve is daunting. Pvp is something you actually need to practice. My advice is to at least rep with each of the heroes and watch videos of what your fav hero can do because 90% isn't on the movement list.

Knight_Raime
06-17-2018, 10:52 PM
The learning curve is daunting. Pvp is something you actually need to practice. My advice is to at least rep with each of the heroes and watch videos of what your fav hero can do because 90% isn't on the movement list.

I second this. I set out a few months ago to put a few reps in each hero. It's greatly help me understand the plight of some heros and better get a feel for specific match ups with other heros. 1 rep is only like a few days worth of play if you manage to complete most orders everytime you sign in.

Eternum10
06-17-2018, 10:58 PM
You're right at some point, but some begginers can quit because of it. Still if i have in my mind idea how defeat orochi(but my reaction+time to change stance+ping don't allow me to realize this) i do not know what to do against Centurion. I want to grow, but when attack spam kills you without a chance it simply dismoral and make me play worse than i could. Still I saw some of this problems discussing earlier. When you meet 10 orochi in the row that rape 0-3 you begin to think that this game is not balanced. I understand, that I'm not a pro, but those heroes make a lot of problems and not only for me.

Eternum10
06-17-2018, 10:59 PM
Did some of this already, still thank you for advice

Borch3Jackdaws
06-17-2018, 11:03 PM
A hardcore friend of mine who plays since the Beta gifted me this game April and i played only farming Bots for the 1st Month and a Half (just for dailies every day).
After that i started playing against people (mostly Dominion) and after some time i just started spamming Duels and watch Guides about mechanics and characters.
Played customs vs much better people than me , rematch always against people who stomp me etc and now i feel much better and stuff that seemed insane at the start - looks easy as ''F'' now.

This game is like Quake or Starcraft 1/2 ... you need to learn and the process will be painful (it's not a simple game like League or the other Mainstream PvP Games nowdays).

bannex19
06-17-2018, 11:07 PM
Sorry for the jerk post here but I don't think this game's pvp is meant for every beginner to pick up and be competitive.

You have to at least put some work in, this isn't overwatch.

Eternum10
06-17-2018, 11:12 PM
Maybe your right, this PvP made not for everyone, still i want to perseveare, but this post was made in the case of free giveaway and small online it was meant to solwe

MuscleTech12018
06-17-2018, 11:47 PM
Got the game recently. Got 2 rank on Warden. After this i met Orochi with itlidht atack spaw, which is ubreal to block, my hero don't have time to change the stance. Orochi have to much attack speed or damage or stamina pull (one of this is must be nerfed). This hero destroys the new players, it's imposible to learn how to play, when you meet this imbalanced hero every match. Other one is Centurion, his combo is simply broken. To many damage, hard to parry, or interupt at all. Many new players could quit the game because almost all of the time they meet imblalnced heroes. Orochi is my oponent almost 70% of the time. And he is the most imbalanced hero on first 5 ranks and his light attack spam is a big problem

you need to git gud in this game, it's important, try vs AI for 3-4 months

Camemberto
06-19-2018, 09:37 AM
I agree with both sides on this one... The game is hard to get into pvp, and that is nothing bad per se.

BUT.

Notice how he only mentions those two heroes? There doesn't seem to be much of a problem with the rest of the cast apparently. It's no coincidence, that those two characters are mentioned, for they are perfect showpieces for what's wrong with the game in total right now. Way too fast attacks and too many unblockables and bashes/kicks/cutscenes. The characters, that have those tools at their exposal don't require much skill to dominate the fight with. A fighting game should be balanced, when two people of equal skill meet, but because of the cheesy kits there are, at lower skill brackets, whoever has the cheesier character wins. Simple as that. That could have been averted, had the game not been balanced around attack timing and guessing games. But Ubisoft sucks at balancing. Big time.

SpaceJim12
06-19-2018, 09:44 AM
You're right at some point, but some begginers can quit because of it. Still if i have in my mind idea how defeat orochi(but my reaction+time to change stance+ping don't allow me to realize this) i do not know what to do against Centurion. I want to grow, but when attack spam kills you without a chance it simply dismoral and make me play worse than i could. Still I saw some of this problems discussing earlier. When you meet 10 orochi in the row that rape 0-3 you begin to think that this game is not balanced. I understand, that I'm not a pro, but those heroes make a lot of problems and not only for me.

A lot of newcomers left cause some skill required for the game. But I can't say For Honor is hard in it's basics. Just end up with story mode, than do warrior's trials and you already should understand, what you doing.
I remembered myself on open beta. I just couldn't win a single duel against bots, and just think it's impossible.=)

Siegfried-Z
06-19-2018, 10:07 AM
you need to git gud in this game, it's important, try vs AI for 3-4 months

I don't agree that playing a lot against IA is helpful.. because a real player gonna play in a very different way than IA.

While the guy need to practice before mastering all the mechanics of the game because they are many things to know, still some char are complicated.

Cent is fine at high level, but new Roch is a real cancer even for experienced players with his triple lightining lights combo...

DrinkinMyStella
06-19-2018, 10:20 AM
this is the problem with for honor, new players want to feel satisfied when they play a game and with the skill level of the game its just putting new players off. Im hoping the marching fire will help the population of the game.

Legion25846
06-19-2018, 01:13 PM
I can give you advice on centurion

When he starts his cut scene combo push back and smash your space bar ( or whatever dodge is a on controller ) for a roll back this will 90% of the time reset the fight just be careful as it is punishing to your stam for the roll, most cents will follow up with a front kick to try to close the gap again so be ready for it.

if you want to try and stand and fight the cut scene it has 3 option once they start into it unblockable, guard break , Feint, 95% of the time they don't feint so this leaves 2 option Most will Guard break because its less punishing then getting parried on the unblockable which by the way is one the easier unblockables to parry. This will just come down to learning the person your fighting.

If you see him holding that unblockable ( he will glow orange for like 3 sec ) get ready top parry it you will **** him up hard.

the unblockable will normally follow from being shoved into a wall at this point your ****ed so stay away from all walls.

cut scene = the combo that your 100% complaining about.

The cent once you learn him is actually not as bad as you think honestly the higher you get the more you will realize he isnt even that viable a pick.

The orochi on the other hand is a piece **** light attack spamming *** hole who just stand there wait for you to attack spin then hit you 3 times with 3 free light attacks. LOL

Legion25846
06-19-2018, 01:16 PM
Centurion is a noob stomper he will make you hate the game and complain about him but the more you play him and fight him the more you will realize hes really not that good.

Im not saying you wont find people who will still reck you with him but that goes for all classes and people in this game

Yesterday i played against a LB who was level 44 and he ****ing destroyed me and people complain that the lawbringer is under powered so what does that make of me, yet ive completely dominated many LB in my time.

Baturai
06-19-2018, 06:02 PM
Welcome to For honor. I encourage you to go into training and practice against the heros you struggle against. You have a lot of freedom and flexibility in training to set things up how you want them to be so you can train against specific situations.

I would advise that you try to ditch the attitude you currently have. Wether or not said heros in questions have balance problems by starting to blame the game so early instead of recognizing that you're new and things will be difficult at first you're setting yourself up to dislike the game early on. And also making it tougher for you to grow as a player. You shouldn't be so quick to call something as an issue when you're brand new to the game. It's not helpful for you or for anyone else.

Soooo right i wish i could spamm like this comment. Noobs are the major cause why our Mains get Nerfed after nerf..

Archeun
06-19-2018, 09:38 PM
Welcome Eternum10. You will find the game and especially the forums, are filled with some of the most unhelpful people I've seen in a game. Theybelieve they are significantly more intelligent than others. I normally just ignore them since engaging them allows them to feel like they are high and mighty. For Honor has many issues. Practice, practice and practice. Even doing that may not be enough. There is software that allows people to cheat by making parrying significantly easier. I suggest you pick 1 char and try to master it. Learn parrying, dodge and attack timing. Feinting is huge in this game. The best advice I can give you is simple. If you become infuriated with the game; walk away for a few weeks. This is the only game I've ever played in which I actually grew to hate the game. Unfortunately, every patch tends to make some things better and others much worse. Right now you have the light spam meta in which some chars can simply light spam you to death. The game is very difficult to master.

BirdDogInc
06-19-2018, 09:53 PM
So I've been playing this for a few weeks and I have to say the Qucikmatch at least has the most unbalanced PvP of any game I've ever played in 30 years of gaming. I've read all your replies of everyone saying play against AI for a few months, and all the other crap, but who the hell wants to do that. It's much more beneficial for new players to play and learn PvP while gaining knowledge of characters and skills. If there was some balance of PvP it would be more attractive for new players to enjoy the game. Unfortunately most of you that have been playing for a while accept the fact that new players have to get to your level of experience and skill to be competitive instead of some kind of balanced PvP. Not a good way to increase the playerbase. I love the matches with 2 players and 2 bots against 4 players, how the hell does that even happen, the game cant at least put 1 of the 4 players on the other team for even AI balance?? The Story mode was fun though.

UbiJurassic
06-19-2018, 10:43 PM
Soooo right i wish i could spamm like this comment. Noobs are the major cause why our Mains get Nerfed after nerf..

This would be wrong. While player feedback plays an important part in the balance process for the team, it is not the single deciding factor for changes. An apt statement for how feedback works in relation to balancing is "where there is smoke, there is fire." Player feedback allows the team to identify areas of possible concern, which prompts them to look at the data to see if we can find a correlation in the sentiments being shared and the hard numbers. If there is, the team will start to investigate the best ways to approach the issue and begin iterating possible solutions.

voiddp
06-21-2018, 12:01 PM
I don't agree that playing a lot against IA is helpful.. because a real player gonna play in a very different way than IA.
.
And i cant agree with that. Maybe for experiences players bots dont help. But not for newbs.
Duels just too short, you cant train anything of them when you newb, and players leave\change. Dominion is too ganky and chaotic.

So im newb too, i got starter last week and liked game.
As I see it there are few stages for players. My stages for now was:
1. Total-newb - doesnt know moves character has. Just does some random moves.
2. newb - knows most of moves, tries to use them. Has some "unstopable" combo\unblockable for Dominion. Cant counter GB. Duels - can win vs 1-2, but depends. Doesnt react on other people, and mostly tries to start his own moves.
3. Adv.newb -knows moves, but cant do feints mindgame yet. Starts to react thoughtfully on what other people do
4.
5.
dont know next levels lol, still dont there yet.

Fighting with bot can really help these 1-3 stages. As it did for me yesterday.
I play kensei. Now made it to rep4. I was at stage2 before yesterday.
It was like - kill a lot of stage 1-2 people, untill comes some bigger-rep char and kills me. Or when orochi comes and lights-spam me to death. Or some GB spam from anyone.
And than came some Orochi and pawned all my team continuously on spawn point with lights\gb combos.

So i went and read this forum, reddit..., then started training with lvl3 bot for less than hour. Big part vs Orochi, somewhat less vs other character with GB moves.
Bot helped me a lot to make blocking evading reflexes right. Because i dont have to die every 20seconds. And have some time to think about what to do and to look at what bot does as he doest very agressive.
As I see it Its as simple as - you cant react on other people tactic if you even cant block off orochi lights.

After bot i went and did some duels\brawls\tournaments. - and Surprise.. all Orochis up to 5-6 rep i met - was at stage 2. They attack a lot in the same pattern, and if you just block it and punch to start something yours. they just dont know what to do. Also they cant block lights even from kensei too much with their reflex block and trying to start spam. And so to block all that is very possible. Just dont try to think about your moves too much untill you block everything and he slows down.
Became easier to press your play vs other characters as well. Seems i level-uped to stage3 with help of bot.:D

Also standart xbox360 setup sucks. Deadzones for blocking are too big. It shows in practice with bot too. Its was a bit easier with deadzone around 12-14, than standart big number(dont remember, but BIG). Allows more timing errors
Also B=hard feint is bad. And X=GB is very bad. Because you cant be ready to block and counter GB at the same time with the same finger.
Remmaped them to LT=feint, GB=LB and ResetView=X... now i shout for help a lot lol but it easier to block and GB. Was even bigger newb for a few days after remap through...

SpaceJim12
06-21-2018, 12:18 PM
Welcome Eternum10. You will find the game and especially the forums, are filled with some of the most unhelpful people I've seen in a game. Theybelieve they are significantly more intelligent than others. I normally just ignore them since engaging them allows them to feel like they are high and mighty. For Honor has many issues. Practice, practice and practice. Even doing that may not be enough. There is software that allows people to cheat by making parrying significantly easier. I suggest you pick 1 char and try to master it. Learn parrying, dodge and attack timing. Feinting is huge in this game. The best advice I can give you is simple. If you become infuriated with the game; walk away for a few weeks. This is the only game I've ever played in which I actually grew to hate the game. Unfortunately, every patch tends to make some things better and others much worse. Right now you have the light spam meta in which some chars can simply light spam you to death. The game is very difficult to master.

You can't made a cheat, that allow you parry automaticly. Believe me, it's too deep in-code interraction with core game mechanic, Even if someone could do it, he need source code, which not avaliable for common players. Even if someone have this version of code, you'll never run this game on dedicated server. Server just can't recognise the structure.
So, please, don't be stupid about cheats here.
And btw I saw a lot of good and detailed feedback and help from old forum members, so please, don't insult people just because you can't ask for help properly.


So I've been playing this for a few weeks and I have to say the Qucikmatch at least has the most unbalanced PvP of any game I've ever played in 30 years of gaming. I've read all your replies of everyone saying play against AI for a few months, and all the other crap, but who the hell wants to do that. It's much more beneficial for new players to play and learn PvP while gaining knowledge of characters and skills. If there was some balance of PvP it would be more attractive for new players to enjoy the game. Unfortunately most of you that have been playing for a while accept the fact that new players have to get to your level of experience and skill to be competitive instead of some kind of balanced PvP. Not a good way to increase the playerbase. I love the matches with 2 players and 2 bots against 4 players, how the hell does that even happen, the game cant at least put 1 of the 4 players on the other team for even AI balance?? The Story mode was fun though.

What exactly do you mean "unbalanced"? Cause from your post it's looks like you called more skilled players "unbalanced". Well, If I play for the first time in any PvP game, I'm sure I will loose to expierenced player. It's not unbalance at all.

Legion25846
06-21-2018, 01:05 PM
I dont understand the unbalanced comment????? Unbalanced in what dominion Cause its impossible to balance 4v4 unbalanced in 1v1 cause honestly i this game is more balanced in 1v1 then 90% of pvp games out there today.

If you lose a 1v1 in this go back and watch your own footage you will probly see mistakes that could have prevented you from losing, this has nothing to do with balance and everything to do with the other player being better then you people need to come to terms with that.

When you lose 90% of the time it has nothing to do with the character your fighting but everything to with the person your fighting or you being a scrub.

This game is very well balance honestly there are few tweaks that need to be done but for the most part pretty dam good. Orochi light attack spam cough cough...... LOL

If any character can beat any character then its pretty balanced some are slightly easier for sure but iv'e been playing valk lately and i can win fights and shes bottom tier level yet she can still win.

we all no there are 1-2 top tier characters that make game easier...... Orochi/Shaman
we all no that there are 1-2 bot tier characters that make the game harder...... Valk / fatman
Maybe the LB but iv'e come across some pretty good ones that have wooped my *** so i'm not sure i believe the hype around this one

yet you can win on all

That also leave about 10-12 characters in between that are pretty even in fights. That's a pretty balanced game

Mia.Nora
06-21-2018, 02:22 PM
You can't made a cheat, that allow you parry automaticly. Believe me, it's too deep in-code interraction with core game mechanic, Even if someone could do it, he need source code, which not avaliable for common players. Even if someone have this version of code, you'll never run this game on dedicated server. Server just can't recognise the structure.
So, please, don't be stupid about cheats here..

Just couldn't stomach how wrong you are about cheats. They do exists, a 5 min google search brings out all auto block/CGB cheats, and yes parry cheat is also extremely easy to create to the point I don't think you have the slightest clue how most cheats work. All they need to do is making a pixel detection that checks 3 pixel spots on the fight triangle (which is always in the exact same place on the screen btw) and combine guard direction cheat (which already exists since over a year) with heavy input at the pixel detection of white flash = parry bot.

Sorry but for honoron PC have always been full of players who turn on their cheat engines on round 3, the only improvement is that they don't lagswitch anymore, but that was a whole other nightmare for over a year that is finally over.

SpaceJim12
06-21-2018, 02:34 PM
Just couldn't stomach how wrong you are about cheats. They do exists, a 5 min google search brings out all auto block/CGB cheats, and yes parry cheat is also extremely easy to create to the point I don't think you have the slightest clue how most cheats work. All they need to do is making a pixel detection that checks 3 pixel spots on the fight triangle (which is always in the exact same place on the screen btw) and combine guard direction cheat (which already exists since over a year) with heavy input at the pixel detection of white flash = parry bot.

Sorry but for honoron PC have always been full of players who turn on their cheat engines on round 3, the only improvement is that they don't lagswitch anymore, but that was a whole other nightmare for over a year that is finally over.

Well, I see you EXACTLY know how to make a cheat. Ubisoft, If I were you, I'll keep an eye on this guy.
Anyway, it could work as you discribed only (again) you could put it into source code. And you can't play this version of the game.
And yes, we have block trigger on PC, everybody know this, and it's obviouse in game, cause break smooth animations. And I don't think Ubi could do something about it. Look at lvl 3 bots. They block every attack, they designed to do it. But still can't parry everything. Block trigger just use code of bots, so every player with block trigger will loose cause of UB or GB/bash in 90% of fights.

Mia.Nora
06-21-2018, 03:22 PM
Well, I see you EXACTLY know how to make a cheat. Ubisoft, If I were you, I'll keep an eye on this guy.
Anyway, it could work as you discribed only (again) you could put it into source code. And you can't play this version of the game.
And yes, we have block trigger on PC, everybody know this, and it's obviouse in game, cause break smooth animations. And I don't think Ubi could do something about it. Look at lvl 3 bots. They block every attack, they designed to do it. But still can't parry everything. Block trigger just use code of bots, so every player with block trigger will loose cause of UB or GB/bash in 90% of fights.

Since I know you weren't around these forums as much as I have been, I will let it pass, otherwise you would have known that I was very vocal about pointing out not only all these hacks but also lagswitch cheaters to ubisoft and support since they first came out I have been demanding fixes.

And again repeating what I said earlier, cheats DO EXISTS, they have been around since march 2017. Ubisoft have done nothing to stop them so far. Auto block/CGB is very rampant on PC, people turn it on if they start losing a duel, or later on during dominion. And you are really clueless about how cheat engines work, they absolutely do not need source code access or even package reading, all they need is pixel detection and they can perform at the absolute best a human could ever do. And pixel based cheats are among the easiest to make, literally 10 min work.

I ***ing hate cheaters, but unlike you I don't bury my head in sand pretending cheats don't exist. They have been around over a year and they are not going anywhere since ubisoft lets them pass.

Vakris_One
06-21-2018, 03:35 PM
Since I know you weren't around these forums as much as I have been, I will let it pass, otherwise you would have known that I was very vocal about pointing out not only all these hacks but also lagswitch cheaters to ubisoft and support since they first came out I have been demanding fixes.

And again repeating what I said earlier, cheats DO EXISTS, they have been around since march 2017. Ubisoft have done nothing to stop them so far. Auto block/CGB is very rampant on PC, people turn it on if they start losing a duel, or later on during dominion. And you are really clueless about how cheat engines work, they absolutely do not need source code access or even package reading, all they need is pixel detection and they can perform at the absolute best a human could ever do. And pixel based cheats are among the easiest to make, literally 10 min work.

I ***ing hate cheaters, but unlike you I don't bury my head in sand pretending cheats don't exist. They have been around over a year and they are not going anywhere since ubisoft lets them pass.
Can you actually provide proof that Ubisoft lets them pass once they have detected a cheater or are you just asuming your opinion is fact? Just a couple days ago there was a thread on here from someone begging Ubisoft to unban their friend who got caught cheating. Eric Pope replied on his Reddit thread that they will not be removing the perma-ban because the guy was confirmed to be using a hack. I might be crazy but that doesn't look to me like Ubisoft is doing nothing about cheating.

voiddp
06-21-2018, 03:45 PM
Well, I see you EXACTLY know how to make a cheat. Ubisoft, If I were you, I'll keep an eye on this guy.
Anyway, it could work as you discribed only (again) you could put it into source code. And you can't play this version of the game.
And yes, we have block trigger on PC, everybody know this, and it's obviouse in game, cause break smooth animations. And I don't think Ubi could do something about it. Look at lvl 3 bots. They block every attack, they designed to do it. But still can't parry everything. Block trigger just use code of bots, so every player with block trigger will loose cause of UB or GB/bash in 90% of fights.

Yeah take it easy... nothing to do here with being a cheat user just about being a bit Tech-savvy about games.
Cheat that will use game-code or search something in memory is easily detectable and hard to make. But even PC mouse with lots of buttons can use scripted actions for keyboard and mouse inputs. Which can be considered as cheating by someone. Also many programs that can read your display image. Simplest example is some video recording streamer... Same here, but in place of recording and streaming, some program can detect some pixels and send keyboard\mouse imputs.
From ubusoft and game side - nothing wrong is happening. Game plays on monitor, player sends keys pressed back. No game code intrusions or something like that is happening.

Only applying some questionable weird player behavior detection algorithms from game side can somewhat detect this. Like when player blocks everything even when someone do empty attacking from afar, but such algorithms can hurt someone fair a lot too..

BirdDogInc
06-21-2018, 04:46 PM
What I mean by unbalanced is, the fact that in all other games like this, you play against chars your level, you earn levels by playing, ranking up, with other players leveling characters. In this game there is no level play, you jump right into playing against other players who could have a HUGE skillset advantage over your new character. Trying to match skills with players youre fighting who may have months or literally years of experience over you is unbalanced, period. Again the game plays great, graphics are amazing, maps are good, UI is good, but the PvP leaves a lot to be desired especially for new players.

SpaceJim12
06-21-2018, 04:50 PM
Can you actually provide proof that Ubisoft lets them pass once they have detected a cheater or are you just asuming your opinion is fact? Just a couple days ago there was a thread on here from someone begging Ubisoft to unban their friend who got caught cheating. Eric Pope replied on his Reddit thread that they will not be removing the perma-ban because the guy was confirmed to be using a hack. I might be crazy but that doesn't look to me like Ubisoft is doing nothing about cheating.

Well, to be honest I saw once a player, who use block trigger month before our second meet. But second time he can't block 70% of attacks, and easily bited by feints, so.


Yeah take it easy... nothing to do here with being a cheat user just about being a bit Tech-savvy about games.
Cheat that will use game-code or search something in memory is easily detectable and hard to make. But even PC mouse with lots of buttons can use scripted actions for keyboard and mouse inputs. Which can be considered as cheating by someone. Also many programs that can read your display image. Simplest example is some video recording streamer... Same here, but in place of recording and streaming, some program can detect some pixels and send keyboard\mouse imputs.
From ubusoft and game side - nothing wrong is happening. Game plays on monitor, player sends keys pressed back. No game code intrusions or something like that is happening.

Only applying some questionable weird player behavior detection algorithms from game side can somewhat detect this. Like when player blocks everything even when someone do empty attacking from afar, but such algorithms can hurt someone fair a lot too..

Well, yes. As example I have zone attack input on a single mouse button. Logitech let you make any macroses on any side mouse button. Maybe it's cheating. But we speack not about it. This feature will never let be parry god.
And about this pixel hunting cheats. You can't be seriouse, right? In dynamic game like For Honor with so much input microlags do you really think this cheat will work?=) Sometimes you have different timings for everything. You CGB in a right moment, but it's won't work, or you CGB a bit late, but successfully! If you have cheat like this, I believe your performance with it same as average player with basic skills.=)
In any other case, I prefer to see proofs.

SpaceJim12
06-21-2018, 04:55 PM
What I mean by unbalanced is, the fact that in all other games like this, you play against chars your level, you earn levels by playing, ranking up, with other players leveling characters. In this game there is no level play, you jump right into playing against other players who could have a HUGE skillset advantage over your new character. Trying to match skills with players youre fighting who may have months or literally years of experience over you is unbalanced, period. Again the game plays great, graphics are amazing, maps are good, UI is good, but the PvP leaves a lot to be desired especially for new players.

It could happend in any PvP game, you know.
My friend play shooters all his life, and when we start to play Overwatch, he was unbeatable as Widow (sniper) cause he have a huge background. If you play a lot of Guitar Hero, you will be fine with reaction games in For Honor.
It's not unbalance, it's result of poor community. And, btw, when I was around 40 rep overall, I met guy with 300+ rep, who can't stand a single round against me.
Yes, For Honor need more friendly system for newcomes, I agree. But skilled players can't be reason to call game unbalanced.

CandleInTheDark
06-21-2018, 05:10 PM
Ok so here is a hard truth. Unless you are an esport calibre player, this game is not balanced around you and should not be.

I am not saying this as someone in the top tier, just to be clear, I am average at best, I parry a few lights (even the occasional 400ms one) on a good day, I have days where I can gankspank hard and days where I fold in three seconds flat, so no, the game isn't balanced around me either. The devs want to take this game to esport level and that is a good part of why their balancing is and should be around the numbers provided by the top 2.5%

There is a lot that players can do to get around this, but basically it comes down to practice basic concepts like blocking lights or guardbreaks with a friend or in the arena, practising with and against every new character when they come out or every character affected by a patch, generally knowing the game and the kits of every character because while players won't use it in the same way as bots what that does do is give you the same knowledge of the building blocks they use that they have.

I am guessing that most players who call for nerfs on day one don't do this, that is on them, not the game.

Vakris_One
06-21-2018, 05:36 PM
Well, to be honest I saw once a player, who use block trigger month before our second meet. But second time he can't block 70% of attacks, and easily bited by feints, so.
I'm not saying Ubi are perfect, I'm just saying you can't really say they're not doing anything. At least they have the balls to permaban players they can prove without a doubt have used a hack.


What I mean by unbalanced is, the fact that in all other games like this, you play against chars your level, you earn levels by playing, ranking up, with other players leveling characters. In this game there is no level play, you jump right into playing against other players who could have a HUGE skillset advantage over your new character. Trying to match skills with players youre fighting who may have months or literally years of experience over you is unbalanced, period. Again the game plays great, graphics are amazing, maps are good, UI is good, but the PvP leaves a lot to be desired especially for new players.
Isn't that the same for every PvP game though? If I started playing Injustice League or Dragonball Fighter Z now I'd probably be getting my butt kicked by more experienced players.

The things that hamper For Honor's new player experience in my opinion is the matchmaking and the lack of an adequate Ranked mode where all the more pro players can flock to.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-21-2018, 05:56 PM
The guy is just right.

Said this before will say it again. Cent combo is going to make new players uninstall. No reason to put in effort if you barely get to play the game. Completely asinine.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-21-2018, 05:58 PM
Ok so here is a hard truth. Unless you are an esport calibre player, this game is not balanced around you and should not be.

This is simply incorrect. The game needs to be balanced in a way that a wide majority of players can enjoy it. If its not then they dont sell **** and thats that.

its called buisness.

Edit: I just remembered a game that was specifically marketed as "hardcore" experience. It started out HUGE insanely HUGE. And then it died in less than half a year. The game was called Wildstar. Lets try to learn from that Ubisoft.

CandleInTheDark
06-21-2018, 06:18 PM
This is simply incorrect. The game needs to be balanced in a way that a wide majority of players can enjoy it. If its not then they dont sell **** and thats that.

its called buisness.

Edit: I just remembered a game that was specifically marketed as "hardcore" experience. It started out HUGE insanely HUGE. And then it died in less than half a year. The game was called Wildstar. Lets try to learn from that Ubisoft.

Again, I am average at best and I enjoy it, 900 hours on console, 85 on PC, gold edition on both, zero regrets.

Difference between me and the op is that I spend time learning the game and learning how to handle as much of what will be thrown at me as I can, I learn, I practice, I don't come here within the first few hours demanding nerfs.

Legion25846
06-21-2018, 06:36 PM
You can quite literally just back roll away from him and reset the fight it took me 2 sec to figure this out.I don't understand why people have such a hard time getting away from him.

BirdDogInc
06-21-2018, 07:16 PM
Im not talking about balance for players who are already immersed in the game, that may be true, For new players, or even medium skilled players, no way is this even close to a level playing field. That equals "Unbalanced". Say what you want about the balance part, this is a PvP game and that's it. If there is no leveling of PvP into higher skill and higher hero base tiers, and you have to go right into fighting players mains who are already geared out to the hilt and very skilled "hard" or mastered advanced classes, it absolutely is 100% different than most games. Most games have some kind of PvP leveling system, example, a level 1-19 PvP, 20-29, 30-39 or some equivalent for how ever high levels go, and you don't get to use the higher end skills until your reached certain levels which is the key here. New players and players somewhere in the middle would be much more into the game, which I'm sure most of you don't really care about, your content having new people come in for a few weeks, beat the crap out of them until they uninstall, call them nubs or noobs, and new people come along for the same thing to happen.. Jumping right into PvP against some good high end players who already mastered all the advanced skills is just too daunting and no fun. Some games wont event let you PvP until your level X, this game you have to complete some 30 minute training and boom, your fed to the lions. Ive played a butt load of these games since they first came out a long time ago, this game dominates with the visuals, and even the game play is super smooth and top notch, but PvP its trash which is what the game is all about, especially the Qucikmatch, holy crapolla that's a real treat for new players.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-21-2018, 07:25 PM
Again, I am average at best and I enjoy it, 900 hours on console, 85 on PC, gold edition on both, zero regrets.

Difference between me and the op is that I spend time learning the game and learning how to handle as much of what will be thrown at me as I can, I learn, I practice, I don't come here within the first few hours demanding nerfs.

Self improvement is always admirable but most people wont be willing to invest the time and effort to improve at something they arent enjoying. The majority of players who get 2 shot or spammed to death are just going to quit and move on to something that is more fun.

Most of the current popular game have some sort of mechanic that even gives advantages to new (worse) players under certain circumstances. Battle Royale by just looting better gear. Minecraft isnt competetive at all. MOBAs are extremely easy to pick up with the exception of Dota2. Hearthstone is arguably more luck than skill. Even overwatch has heroes that flat out dont require certain skills (like aiming).

Im not saying make it easy af for everyone, i dont think i would enjoy that. But currently this game does the EXACT opposite of what every successfull game currently does and at the end of the day, there is no game without a solid playerbase.

Lethalchem
06-21-2018, 08:31 PM
Perhaps part of the issue people are running into is thinking they MUST jump right into PvP. Many complaints mentioned in this thread MAY indeed be valid, if one believes PvP is the only mode to play.

I wouldnít know because all Iíve ever played is PvE. Iíve thoroughly enjoyed every bit of game time Iíve spent with For Honor. The game is set up in such a way that I can specifically choose exactly what type of experience I want to have, and what challenges I want to face.

For new players: If you want to learn the game in increments, stay in PvE and you will be pitted against level 1 bots. When you want more of a challenge switch to PvP for a little while (it doesnít require much time). The game will track your progress and skill level and when returning to PvE it will start putting you against level 2 bots. If you want more challenge, go back to PvP for awhile and you will warrant brining in lev 3 bots to PvE in time.

If at that time you are bored, you can then stay in PvP and will be able to grow from there. You donít have to do it hat way, itís merely an option. You could certainly just throw yourself to the wolves and stay PvP from the start, Iím just trying to offer options for new players.

I agree with the opinion the AI isnít the same as another player. So in that sense I believe the PvE is a good STARTING POINT to help players get a good feel for the game (and should help prevent them from wanting to quit), but it isnít going to be enough to make you a top player. On the flip side, does playing PvE and not PvP mean you arnt having fun? It certainly shouldnít! Iíve had a blast and donít even care that thereís a PvP option.

As I said before, I donít play PvP EVER. I will some day, when I have all the cool gear and visuals I like unlocked for each character, but thatís because I have different goals for the game than perhaps other people do. It hasnít prevented me from having a damn good time though.

As of today Iím half a rep level away from being overall rep 300. None of my 18 characters are lower than rep 9, and Iíve been playing since the end of season 1. My skill level is probably officially 0 where matchmaking is concerned, and although I know all the moves, how to parry, how to counter guard break, and how to faint, I should probably still get stomped in most PvP matches because I havenít practiced the patterns of players compared to what the bots do. I know what the different level bots do, and real people will behave differently. However, I have no doubt that I certainly could quickly learn to do just fine were I to switch over and start PvP exclusively. Itís just a matter of learning, and you canít learn if you quit out of frustration before you give it a chance.

This game has a LOT of things to offer in a variety of ways. I hope you new guys give it time and donít be afraid to think outside the box. There is never just one path to fun, my friends. Donít be afraid to find your own.

BirdDogInc
06-21-2018, 08:49 PM
Sorry but some of us don't like or want to PvE, and PvE is not the same playing experience. Unfortunately with most of this FH forum crowd its a losing battle, a few of you understand and get it.

chugga1961
06-22-2018, 04:04 AM
Stop trying to use your data and listening to your top 1% and start listening to real people. The game has the most toxic, ganking environment introduced apart from the dark zone in the division.
Look at the atrocious gang banging, 4 man meat grinders in dominion.
Go in dominion as a new solo player up against a 4 man on the microphone, rep 150 and see how long you last solo.
Start listening to the concerns of new players and not your 1% gank squads!

chugga1961
06-22-2018, 04:08 AM
This git gud attitude is so stupid! Who has 3 months of spare time to go against ai for 3 months? And if a games need 3 months of intense training, well there's something wrong with the game.
Might as well go join the army and get paid to get trained and less time

Lethalchem
06-22-2018, 04:25 AM
This git gud attitude is so stupid! Who has 3 months of spare time to go against ai for 3 months? And if a games need 3 months of intense training, well there's something wrong with the game.
Might as well go join the army and get paid to get trained and less time

I re-wrote my response to this multiple times before settling on something about as neutral as I could muster: Best of luck in your plan to go through Life without having to work for anything.

voiddp
06-22-2018, 09:07 AM
And about this pixel hunting cheats. You can't be seriouse, right? In dynamic game like For Honor with so much input microlags do you really think this cheat will work?=) Sometimes you have different timings for everything. You CGB in a right moment, but it's won't work, or you CGB a bit late, but successfully! If you have cheat like this, I believe your performance with it same as average player with basic skills.=)
In any other case, I prefer to see proofs.
you have some serious misconseptions about computer programs.
Programs react faster then people. Computers do everything faster then people. Most lag in reaction games is from men-side. Thats why its called reaction-game, because its about our reaction.
If you see red arrow, you will react to block it in 200-300ms as example and will send input. Program will send input in 10ms after it detects red pixel in that area. It will detect faster, it will react faster.
All those blinks and color changes of arrows made for people to notice and react. Program can do both faster.

About proofs its funny - to proof it to you i need to do what? play with such programs and record... or find some recording or what? why should i even start to do this for some random not computer-savvy person? Just search yourself if you are interested and learn about computers and programs in general.
It is like someone tells you that he doesnt believes in physics and you need to give him proof? Best you can do is to give him learning manuals.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-22-2018, 09:10 AM
Best of luck in your plan to go through Life without having to work for anything.

The difference is, just as he pointed out, in real life you get paid.

voiddp
06-22-2018, 09:13 AM
Well, to be honest I saw once a player, who use block trigger month before our second meet. But second time he can't block 70% of attacks, and easily bited by feints, so.



Well, yes. As example I have zone attack input on a single mouse button. Logitech let you make any macroses on any side mouse button. Maybe it's cheating. But we speack not about it. This feature will never let be parry god.
And about this pixel hunting cheats. You can't be seriouse, right? In dynamic game like For Honor with so much input microlags do you really think this cheat will work?=) Sometimes you have different timings for everything. You CGB in a right moment, but it's won't work, or you CGB a bit late, but successfully! If you have cheat like this, I believe your performance with it same as average player with basic skills.=)
In any other case, I prefer to see proofs.

Also i am not sure why people talk about 2-3 months playing with AI. It isn`t even funny. Noone will do that if he buys multiplayer pvp game. But even playing around an hour vs bot-character that always beets you is enough to get some things going better next time if you lack some right reactions on that character moves. Mentioning some 2-3 months of training with bots is like some anti-advertisement of this game lol.

SpaceJim12
06-22-2018, 09:58 AM
Said this before will say it again. Cent combo is going to make new players uninstall. No reason to put in effort if you barely get to play the game. Completely asinine.

Im not talking about balance for players who are already immersed in the game, that may be true, For new players, or even medium skilled players, no way is this even close to a level playing field. That equals "Unbalanced". Say what you want about the balance part, this is a PvP game and that's it. If there is no leveling of PvP into higher skill and higher hero base tiers, and you have to go right into fighting players mains who are already geared out to the hilt and very skilled "hard" or mastered advanced classes, it absolutely is 100% different than most games. Most games have some kind of PvP leveling system, example, a level 1-19 PvP, 20-29, 30-39 or some equivalent for how ever high levels go, and you don't get to use the higher end skills until your reached certain levels which is the key here. New players and players somewhere in the middle would be much more into the game, which I'm sure most of you don't really care about, your content having new people come in for a few weeks, beat the crap out of them until they uninstall, call them nubs or noobs, and new people come along for the same thing to happen.. Jumping right into PvP against some good high end players who already mastered all the advanced skills is just too daunting and no fun. Some games wont event let you PvP until your level X, this game you have to complete some 30 minute training and boom, your fed to the lions. Ive played a butt load of these games since they first came out a long time ago, this game dominates with the visuals, and even the game play is super smooth and top notch, but PvP its trash which is what the game is all about, especially the Qucikmatch, holy crapolla that's a real treat for new players.

You guys can't be serious about that, right? Do you ever played any PvP game before? Let's go point by point.

First, about Cent combo. We all feel the same way when he's been added in season 2. Same "it's useless" minds, Cents dominate everywhere. What happend with them know? Good gunk squade leader, but nothing more. You could easy read him in duels.
Now, let me write down example from the other game.
Heroes of the Storm. You could believe me, if I'll take Varian, noone in enemy team will enjoy the process. I just destroy every single person on my way. Still, new players join HotS every month, and some cry on forums for nerf. But if I'll meet Varian on the battlefield I could kill him in 60% of times. I can kill him even with some support heroes. So, HotS is not balanced at all.
Same rules work for Overwatch, PvP in Destiny etc.

Now about "uninstall". Again, what games don't let you PvP from the start? Destiny 2, for example, let you play PvP matches until you even get lvl 10. And if you'll go to PvP now, you'll probably will play against lvl 30 (top in the game). So, you will loose to them and uninstall the game? I doubt it.
In Heroes of the Storm I have overall lvl 251, and most of the times I play with people, who have 1000+ lvl. Some of them are pretty good, but most of time I crush them with no troubles, cause I know what I'm doing. So a) lvl means nothing b) this 1000+ guys have to uninstall the game, right?

All you address here to For Honor could be addressed to any PvP game. So you'll should stop play PvP games at all, or stop making empty accusations here.

Tyrfing_.
06-22-2018, 10:59 AM
The difference is, just as he pointed out, in real life you get paid.

Then compare it with sports.
You cant start playing football, tennis or whatever end expect that you beat experirnced people after a few weeks... You need to practice and train, and you will eventually improve slowly.
In my opinion you can pick up any hero, and you will finally reach a state in which you can beat 80% of players - even if it takes some months.

That having said, I support the criticism on Centurion. Any hero in experirnced hands can destroy new players, but the way centurion's combo is set up is most frustrating and is indeed capable to make people quit. More than other heros.

ishisan4902
06-22-2018, 11:10 AM
Guys its a game you win some and you lose some i have been playing for honor since season 1 and i see myself as below average at this game at best. I know for new players in this game it feels like its not fair always losing but you have to admit first to yourself that you have to get better and the best way to get better is through training and learning the basics of the game. If you can take my advice the best way for some new in for honor to do is first finish all training to learn basic moves, second finish story even in normal this will give you more basic ideas about game and help you get a feel for most of the OG classes on all factions this will help you pick your main, third pick your main and just try to play him in pvai much better with dominion mode this will help you with learning what your chosen main can and cant do and also easy to earn steel and finish orders. it wont take you even a month even at 1 hour playing time a day and you will have enough steel and atleast rep your character to get decent gear score to get to the real meat of the game the pvp. This game is really good once you just play it at your own pace you dont need to hurry to be as good as the 1%. Just have fun with the game guys theres no game like this out there level doesnt matter its always player skill that wins everybody started at the bottom its just that some are better at the game.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-22-2018, 11:43 AM
Then compare it with sports.
You cant start playing football, tennis or whatever end expect that you beat experirnced people after a few weeks... You need to practice and train, and you will eventually improve slowly.
In my opinion you can pick up any hero, and you will finally reach a state in which you can beat 80% of players - even if it takes some months.

That having said, I support the criticism on Centurion. Any hero in experirnced hands can destroy new players, but the way centurion's combo is set up is most frustrating and is indeed capable to make people quit. More than other heros.

Thats really all i care about.

Anyway people who are much worse at a sport than the peer group they are playing with will quit just the same. And by the way if someone always loses to someone else they will just stop playing in general. Theres even a study they made with rats that showed when a big and small rat played together the small rat was always the initiator and if the big rat didnt let the small rat win at least a couple of times, the small rat stopped engaging in play altogether (dont have the study anymore unfortunately so feel free to just say LUL you eff no source nub)

Sports dont have cheese. Sports give health benefits. The social aspect in sports is much more relevant than in online games. You play against people you know, you play with people you know, the connections you build in sports clubs extend into real life while people you meet online very very rarely do.
Only exception being MMOs that are arguably more focused on social aspects than most sports.

At the end of the day nobody is going to put effort into something when they dont get anything out of it. Thats all.

voiddp
06-22-2018, 12:14 PM
Thats really all i care about.

Anyway people who are much worse at a sport than the peer group they are playing with will quit just the same. And by the way if someone always loses to someone else they will just stop playing in general. Theres even a study they made with rats that showed when a big and small rat played together the small rat was always the initiator and if the big rat didnt let the small rat win at least a couple of times, the small rat stopped engaging in play altogether (dont have the study anymore unfortunately so feel free to just say LUL you eff no source nub)

Sports dont have cheese. Sports give health benefits. The social aspect in sports is much more relevant than in online games. You play against people you know, you play with people you know, the connections you build in sports clubs extend into real life while people you meet online very very rarely do.
Only exception being MMOs that are arguably more focused on social aspects than most sports.

At the end of the day nobody is going to put effort into something when they dont get anything out of it. Thats all.

Well im newb here. Played yesterday in some dominion. There was that cent guy that guarded some C point and killed everyone with one combo. And me too. So i went and went to fight him. After dying 8 or 9 times, i got some things straight started to see what i need to dodge where to block and counter GB. And next killed this guy few times.
I dont know why people who dont like to put a bit of effort even try to play any PvP games, they just gonna be killed in every game and leave every game. PvP is about competition for competitive people. It is Player Vs Player. If someone is not competitive he really should play some singleplayer games, nothing wrong with that. And also at some point such people will leave this game anyway sooner or later.
PvP Games that have much variation and depth and take some skill to play PvP and at the same time that are liked by any type of player just dont exist.

So or this game will have variety and depth between characters - but many who dont want to learn will often wont like some mutch-ups.
Or all characters will be nerfed flat and made the same, so people dont have to learn - people who like for honor for its variety clearly wont like that.
You cant make a game for all types of people. This game IS competative and NEEDS some learning of characters. Its a game feature. You cant play it without rage-quiting if you dont learn. Its just as it is, and nothing wrong with it.

ps: I see many veterans say that adjasting cent a bit will be good. Whatever is better, i dont know anything to say somthn about that yet. But this strange attitude - wont learn anything in PvP game to play better, because i dont get paid. - is totaly strange, playing games is a hobby, you make efforts with your hobbies usually if you like them. If you dont you change them. Not every hobby for anyone.

Vakris_One
06-22-2018, 01:26 PM
Thats really all i care about.

Anyway people who are much worse at a sport than the peer group they are playing with will quit just the same. And by the way if someone always loses to someone else they will just stop playing in general. Theres even a study they made with rats that showed when a big and small rat played together the small rat was always the initiator and if the big rat didnt let the small rat win at least a couple of times, the small rat stopped engaging in play altogether (dont have the study anymore unfortunately so feel free to just say LUL you eff no source nub)
*Clears throat*

"LUL. You elf. No source nub!" :p

Kidding. Valid study but the thing with humans is that we're capable of being very stubborn and often times keep coming back no matter how many times we get knocked down. Whether that makes us smarter or dumber than rats is a subject worthy of its own study.



Sports dont have cheese. Sports give health benefits. The social aspect in sports is much more relevant than in online games. You play against people you know, you play with people you know, the connections you build in sports clubs extend into real life while people you meet online very very rarely do.
Only exception being MMOs that are arguably more focused on social aspects than most sports.
I agree and disagree. There's plenty of cheese in sports and plenty of times where you can feel like you got hard done or outright cheated by a referee decision or by cheesy play from your opponent for example. So many players dive in football for example and get given free kicks and even penalties that result in a goal being scored. In Tennis your opponent can keep slowing the game down on purpose by taking a bit longer to serve which is an attempt to kill your tempo. In Figure Skating you frequently get judges giving more points to "the favourites" for mediocre routines rather than the unknowns who come out and do a much better routine.

The most important thing in sports is maintaining a positive mental attitude in the face of adversity and not letting anything shake that. The same is important in this game. As for the connections you build with people; they are obviously not as close as the connections you build in person but plenty of people build lifelong friendships from games.



At the end of the day nobody is going to put effort into something when they dont get anything out of it. Thats all.
Indeed, games are for fun. Different people have different thresholds for putting in effort though. Some are prepared to put in a decent chunk of time and effort to get better while others decide it's not worth it if they can't win every 3rd match they play.

The question is, what things do other PvP games do better in terms of acclimatising new players and can it be incorporated into For Honor?

CandleInTheDark
06-22-2018, 04:10 PM
Self improvement is always admirable but most people wont be willing to invest the time and effort to improve at something they arent enjoying. The majority of players who get 2 shot or spammed to death are just going to quit and move on to something that is more fun.

Most of the current popular game have some sort of mechanic that even gives advantages to new (worse) players under certain circumstances. Battle Royale by just looting better gear. Minecraft isnt competetive at all. MOBAs are extremely easy to pick up with the exception of Dota2. Hearthstone is arguably more luck than skill. Even overwatch has heroes that flat out dont require certain skills (like aiming).

Im not saying make it easy af for everyone, i dont think i would enjoy that. But currently this game does the EXACT opposite of what every successfull game currently does and at the end of the day, there is no game without a solid playerbase.

Here is the thing though, people who go into competitive games thinking they are elite players when they are not get found out, whether it is Fifa, Destiny or For Honor. Even if For Honor had dropped with dedicated servers and much closer balance it would have lost a chunk, most, probably, of its player base because fighting games are the most brutal at finding people out, Tekken had similar drops in numbers, Injustice 2 you don't hear much about these days and ask Absolver players about the game people here were saying was going to kill For Honor off. Some who don't leave stick with it and attempt to get better, others decide it is the game's fault, because they are obviously elite players, so it is obviously unbalanced. If we want to go into studies (which isn't to say I don't also think yours is valid), Christopher Chabris and Daniel Simons, in their book The Invisible Gorilla, discuss how people fall into the trap of thinking they are better than they are and the people with the lower skill levels are more likely to overestimate their level of skill. The op wasn't about I am being matchmade against the wrong people nor was it a post asking for advice, it was a post demanding nerfs, because clearly the game should be balanced around them.

As a compare and contrast I have listened in on one of my discord servers as someone else was taking a newbie that asked for help through their paces in a custom match. The newbie asked questions that indicated he had looked up the game and thought about it, he told the guy helping him "Damnit I know you could have punished me there so punish me" and he comes in asking one of us in there to go for best of 99 duels with him. He also treats Orochi light spam with contempt, so when he does have the hours he is going to be dangerous. That guy will be in a much better state than the op of this thread or any other of the nerf threads that get thrown about,

I have said it a few times on these boards the last few days, I am average at best, that isn't something I say as a humble brag or to downplay anything, I know my capability, if I was not an elite gamer at eighteen I am not one the other side of thirty. When this is something you accept you have options.

- Play single player games with scaleable difficulty, now fortunately I very much like story drvien RPG games, I have plenty of these
- If you want to be competitive, find a game with a different skillset, say I had all the pokemon games in the current generation (I probably don't by now) I could put together a team from all of them, tell you right now about egg breeding for moves, av training and with time to prepare could tell you the different types, what does double, half or no damage against each other and the effects of dual typing. For another example, Total War isn't about twitch reflexes but about knowing how to set up your army and make players commit to things that help you to whittle theirs down while micromanaging your own resources.
- Accept that the game is not balanced for you and play anyway in which case you practice and take what victories you get. For Honor has a lot of tools, it has the campaign mode to bring you into the controls, the trials, both of which I 100% completed before touching PVP on PC, just the campaign when I had it on xbox a year ago, and it has the arena mode in which people can practice against things like 400ms lights and guardbreaks. Or you can do as the person I discussed earlier did and ask people on a discord to help you out. In my own case I also bought things that can help me in terms of the Elite Controller on xbox or a gaming mouse on PC and I make sure I know every character's kit in arena. What I do not do is assume any loss I have is the game's fault.

The devs are looking at getting For Honor into being an esport, while I would agree if the point was matchmaking needs to improve or we need a ranked area that is fit for purpose to draw in the higher skilled players to a place newbies shouldn't come across them, I do not think the game will get to where the devs want it to be if someone at my level of skill can parry every light or deal with every mixup with ease.

BirdDogInc
06-22-2018, 04:35 PM
Obviously this has become an argument over 2 separate things. Existing players vrs new players. Most existing players feel the PvP in this game is good for attracting and keeping new players, just give the game a chance for a few months and learn the mechanics. New players feel we are too far behind the 8 ball now and its now worth a few months time sink of being beat on in order to be competetive. What is Ubi's ultimate goal, keep the existing player base happy, or grow the playerbase? Ubi lured in new players with the free game offering obviously a last ditch effort to grow the playerbase. I can see why after only a month of playing FH has "the rise and fall" epitaph over its head in the gaming world.

I have played a LOT of games since the late 90s, this is so close to being a really good game, just needs a fair PvP system FOR NEW players, like a battleground to level up in against the same level players or within some levels, something to make people have fun for months and even years while they learn the mechanics in a level playing field. This is the only game in my 20 years of gaming I would not recommend for PvP to start up now. Had we started from the beginning Im certain I would love the game and all the fresh meat Ubi is trying lure in with free game offer. The existing PvP is not going to keep the new people for very long, that is proven historically with this game.


My opinion and the dozen of our group that tried it out for a few weeks is the PvP for "NEW" players just sucks, plain and simple, listen, don't listen, doesn't matter because you ran us off, congratulations. We aren't going to spend several months to be competitive and if that's what you guys and Ubi feel is adequate or appropriate, your sadly mistaken. Oh well, enjoy your perfect PvP game hehehehe.

voiddp
06-22-2018, 06:16 PM
dude I am also a new player for a week for now.
Not sure what are you talking about here.
I am getting matched with my level players - low rep, a somewhat advanced newbs. I can count on one hand how much times i got matched vs some pros in my crowd. I still at that bracket where most of people just learned one combo and spam that in Dominion. Saw some experienced player with 18 rep LB only in tournament where noone plays..
And well if you get killed by people spamming some combo on you.. it is a usual newb problem with fighting games. Git gud. Such spaming always punishable just get some things right by learning how a bit.

At start i clearly remember i was matched with players from 1 rep and down.. like i was. With some kills and wins it all went up bit by bit..
Also i can recommend to start this game now easily, as it matches you with people of newb level good enough..

Vakris_One
06-22-2018, 08:46 PM
Obviously this has become an argument over 2 separate things. Existing players vrs new players. Most existing players feel the PvP in this game is good for attracting and keeping new players, just give the game a chance for a few months and learn the mechanics. New players feel we are too far behind the 8 ball now and its now worth a few months time sink of being beat on in order to be competetive. What is Ubi's ultimate goal, keep the existing player base happy, or grow the playerbase? Ubi lured in new players with the free game offering obviously a last ditch effort to grow the playerbase. I can see why after only a month of playing FH has "the rise and fall" epitaph over its head in the gaming world.

I have played a LOT of games since the late 90s, this is so close to being a really good game, just needs a fair PvP system FOR NEW players, like a battleground to level up in against the same level players or within some levels, something to make people have fun for months and even years while they learn the mechanics in a level playing field. This is the only game in my 20 years of gaming I would not recommend for PvP to start up now. Had we started from the beginning Im certain I would love the game and all the fresh meat Ubi is trying lure in with free game offer. The existing PvP is not going to keep the new people for very long, that is proven historically with this game.


My opinion and the dozen of our group that tried it out for a few weeks is the PvP for "NEW" players just sucks, plain and simple, listen, don't listen, doesn't matter because you ran us off, congratulations. We aren't going to spend several months to be competitive and if that's what you guys and Ubi feel is adequate or appropriate, your sadly mistaken. Oh well, enjoy your perfect PvP game hehehehe.
Well if someone like me was able to stay with this game I don't think For Honor is any harder on new players than any other skill based PvP game. I was never a fan of online PvP fighting games nor PvP games in general until For Honor. I strongly disliked the button mashing nature of most fighters and the air juggle combos that most of them have whereby a new player facing someone more experienced can get their butt kicked without even making three moves before they get air juggled for 90% of their HP. The fighting in For Honor by comparison gives you a much fairer shot at facing down a more experienced player. Minus the Centurion nobody else can put a new player into a prolonged cutscene combo that drains 80% of their health by the time it finishes. This is why Cent needs to be made more new player friendly by changing his dependance on a cutscene combo play style.

I played For Honor from the very first Alpha but I didn't purchase it at release because the game was a mess in terms of connectivity issues. I bought into it at Season 2 and was very much a new player because everybody knew the characters, moves and the meta much better than I who only vaguely remembered a few basic combos from Kensei and Warden. I was getting absolutely thrashed by everyone I met. In some matches I couldn't even throw out a light attack without it getting parried. And Season 2 was the height of the defensive meta meaning staring contests, last bar of health regen, every parry guarranteeing a guardbreak, all that craziness. In short it was ten times worse than the stuff new players have to deal with nowadays.

I was about ready to call the game an utter abomination and quit for good sometime around Season 3. But then in a last ditch attempt I started watching videos from good players, started watching character guides on how best to use each hero and character training videos. And I started getting better suddenly from that point on. Because I was finally understanding what these guys were doing when they beat me. It wasn't just random button presses that felt on the surface level impossible to recognise. There were logical patterns to their attacks. Patterns I myself could learn and learn how to punish. Furthermore I saw the attitude that these good players were approaching the game with. They applauded their opponent for good plays like parrying an unexpected attack and in general they were actually happy if the opponent showed them something new that they would then add to their own arsenal.

So here's me, someone with no prior affinity to PvP fighting games, in fact I actively disliked most of them, and yet I managed to be playing For Honor quite happily on and off for more than a year now. That's primarily due to learning to accept and enjoy my own personal sense of progression as a player.

Anyway, that's my story. In your opinion, what would it take for PvP in this game not to "suck" for new players?

Lethalchem
06-22-2018, 10:26 PM
Anyway, that's my story. In your opinion, what would it take for PvP in this game not to "suck" for new players?

Handing out ďWinsĒ just for showing up, apparently....

MuscleTech12018
06-22-2018, 11:03 PM
This would be wrong. While player feedback plays an important part in the balance process for the team, it is not the single deciding factor for changes. An apt statement for how feedback works in relation to balancing is "where there is smoke, there is fire." Player feedback allows the team to identify areas of possible concern, which prompts them to look at the data to see if we can find a correlation in the sentiments being shared and the hard numbers. If there is, the team will start to investigate the best ways to approach the issue and begin iterating possible solutions.

I love this statements :)) Let's cut the crap, you guys never listened to the playerbase :))

All the nerfs/ reworks were done with zero talking with the community. Nobody wanted this kind of reworks or DLC heroes... but there we are :))

NinjaRonin85
06-23-2018, 12:26 AM
Yes the game is broken, been playing since beta and I hate the way the game is now, no matter how good you get you will always get beat by players using cheese classes or just plain lag, The game is being tweaked for pc so us console players get screwed hard, just a little lag can make light spam unblockable and soft faints impossible to deal with, tbh I would tell anyone thinking of getting this on console not to bother at all pc or nothing, the only reason we are getting a new game mode/faction is to distract the players from the fact that the game is broken on console... I love the game but it makes me sad to see it in this state.

gjanssen2
06-23-2018, 12:05 PM
The whole point is to develop skill first...instead of whining about it being to difficult :-P

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-23-2018, 04:57 PM
The question is, what things do other PvP games do better in terms of acclimatising new players and can it be incorporated into For Honor?



Anyway, that's my story. In your opinion, what would it take for PvP in this game not to "suck" for new players?

Better animations/playerfeedback that clearly show what is happening.
Examples are dodge and attack recovery where the animation usually ends LONG before you can actually do anything again.
Another thing is the dodge window of unblockables. Just look at the number of people complaining about "tracking" when all that happened was that they misstimed their dodge. Just make the unblockable blink like parries do during the dodge window. Boom easy fix.

Consistency
Normalizing dodges is a good start but wont do much if every character has incredibly different options on dodge.
The ability to grab heavy start ups is another one of these. It just hardly ever works on certain characters.
Normalized zone attacks. 1 single 400ms zone literally breaks a character. Some characters have zones that are entirely unusable. (It is possible to have individual characters have A standout zone. But at this point in time they are literally all over the place ranging from god tier to where they have to make the character awful to compensate for her 400ms zone so its somewhat balanced to holy crap i pressed zone by accident, i guess i die now) Just make them more "average" so the variance isnt as insane as it is now.


Good tutorials
Bots are almost useless to practice against because of their +100ms bonus.
The current tutorials are lacking in so many ways. As are the guides on the forum. I already posted a great guide on ganking in combat strategy (which naturally was ignored). Thats the quality the tutorials would have to be. One of the most important aspects of dodges being unable to be counter gbd is mentioned 1 time really briefly in one of the tutorials and its crazy important. Zone attacks as a tool to mix up opponents that follow your block indicator arent mentioned at all

No easy abusable high damage chains / abusable stamina damage chains when OOS
If something can be abused against average players repeatedly with minimal effort and minimal risk it shouldnt do a ton of damage.

Look at toe stab or valk sweep and compare it to cent mixup (or even just a random gb, all he needs) or the stamina damage on conq shield bash. Look at the difference in risk reward for these its like 2 different games altogether.

Against Toe stab and valk sweep, at least as a new player you get a bunch more tries to avoid them successfully. (i.e. 5 valk sweeps < 2 cent combos WUT?)

Cent 2 shot. Conq OOS pressure. I have legit killed people because they went OOS once and just never recovered. I personally feel this is one of the more possible things to do (even recovered against conq while cornered with good timing) but for new players stuff like this is the most asinine thing to go up against. OOS stamina lockdown is another thing cent can do as well for some arbitrary reason. Its like the character is designed to make new players quit the game. OOS 50/50s dont have to be there as well (looking at you HL / warden)
OOS parries are great, maybe incraese chip damage take during OOS to make it more rewarding but by god dont make people die because they go OOS once. OOS also carries the turlte meta since parries take A TON of stamina away and pressure during OOS is soooo easy for some characters but thats another story..