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huggy87
02-16-2005, 07:18 PM
I was planning on buying a new 'puter this summer. Probably a Dell XPS or Alienware. Anyway, I just read about this new OS, Longhorn, coming down the pipe. Do any of you think it would be worth waiting half a year to get this OS factory installed? Has anyone had bad experiences trying to upgrade an OS in the past?

I'm also wondering if it is even worth it to upgrade now. I currently have a three year old dell with 1.8ghz, 768 RAM, and a Radeon 9600XT. My performance is OK, but I definitely get lag. (especially when firing in PF). Any thoughts?

huggy87
02-16-2005, 07:18 PM
I was planning on buying a new 'puter this summer. Probably a Dell XPS or Alienware. Anyway, I just read about this new OS, Longhorn, coming down the pipe. Do any of you think it would be worth waiting half a year to get this OS factory installed? Has anyone had bad experiences trying to upgrade an OS in the past?

I'm also wondering if it is even worth it to upgrade now. I currently have a three year old dell with 1.8ghz, 768 RAM, and a Radeon 9600XT. My performance is OK, but I definitely get lag. (especially when firing in PF). Any thoughts?

BaldieJr
02-16-2005, 07:42 PM
Point blank, take it from someone whos been computing for ever: if you can afford to by the very best right now, do it.

If you can't, don't buy jack. Save a little longer. The average price for a hot-rod stays the same, only the performance changes. You can have the hot-rod now, or you can wait for "something better", only to find 6 months latter: something even better came out.

Its a tail-chaser, be sure. By the latest/greatest as soon as you can afford it and ENJOY IT.

PS: Don't "build your own". Thats the dumbest advice ever. You can't recoup nearly as much from your rig when its time to buy a new one. If you hang on to a red-hot alienware/falcon for a year, you can still get a good price for it. A year-old homebuilt is worth zilch, so you end up upgrading a piece at a time, untill some incompatibility (PCIE anyone?) causes you to start from scratch.... all over. And longhorn is going to suck hardcore.

jarink
02-16-2005, 07:44 PM
In a word, no.

Longhorn has had several delays already and I would not be suprised if there are major problems right after the initial release. Rule of thumb for any Windows OS is to wait until the 1st Service Pack is released (typically 6-9 months after release). At least then the most glaring issues will have been fixed and the OEMs will also have updated drivers, too.

SeminoleX
02-16-2005, 07:45 PM
As for Longhorn I have always found it beneficial,in these situations, to let others jump in feet first while I wait,watch, and learn from their experiences.

jarink
02-16-2005, 07:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
PS: Don't "build your own". Thats the dumbest advice ever. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I must protest this!
This is good advice if you can afford a new PC every year or so, but if you are on a budget or want to learn more about computers, then homebuilt is the way to go. If you've never built your own, try a reputable 'white-box' dealer that can help you choose the right components for you.

Actually, I find that the people who want the OEMs don't understand that they often don't use the same components as what's available retail. Many OEMs will skimp wherever they can to shave a few $$ off the price. A good example is hard drives. An OEM will say "80GB, 7200 RPM" drive, but the part they don't mention is that the drive is an OEM version with only a 2MB buffer instead of the 8MB buffer in the retail version of the same model drive. Warranty is often different, too. This is not necessarilly true of all OEMs, but it often is when you're discussing the 'price leaders'.

Buyer beware; you get what you pay for!

EnGaurde
02-16-2005, 09:50 PM
hmm yeah i tend to agree ^

ive been building since year dot.

and if you are back stroking thru an olympic sized pool of $100 bills just to get to your custom built solid gold stretch monster truck as your robot tera patrick look alike butler-ess downloads.... er... new techniques from her manufactures so she can excite you even more after you return from your latest spending spree...

... then you can afford to upgrade everything once a year.

in my experience, a custom built machine needs to be upgraded far less often. IF so, so what its a $150 motherboard and a video card. RAM, cpu, HDD, arent as crucial as video these days and if you need a new board, then pick one that has support for what you already have and what you now need.

those that do this religiously tend to sniff out what parts have longevity, but i guess seeing you need advice on this it may be easier to buy new.

meh.

ill never stop building. Works too well for my pocket and my simming.

han freak solo
02-16-2005, 10:17 PM
Maybe I'll just skip Longhorn altogether. Can anyone predict what will follow? Short Antler?

What the hell, I skipped Windows ME and 2000. Did I miss anything? Doesn't feel like it.

It's my version of "island hopping".

eddiemac0
02-16-2005, 10:23 PM
ME or 2000, I can't remember which (maybe both?), was what should have been referred to as the "Y2K virus," so the only thing you missed out on was a massive headache. My brother was on one of the other, and I always had to clean his machine and fix its instabilities. Windows 98 was about as bullet proof as a MS OS ever was, but that just IMHO.

What the hell is Longhorn supposed to be anyways, as far as better than XP?

han freak solo
02-16-2005, 10:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddiemac0:
ME or 2000, I can't remember which (maybe both?), was what should have been referred to as the "Y2K virus," so the only thing you missed out on was a massive headache. My brother was on one of the other, and I always had to clean his machine and fix its instabilities. Windows 98 was about as bullet proof as a MS OS ever was, but that just IMHO.

What the hell is Longhorn supposed to be anyways, as far as better than XP? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The great thing about Windows ME is that the computer I bought my ex-wife had ME on it. We split shortly thereafter. It's like I left her a great curse.

I've read some articles on Longhorn and (to me) it's a great mystery. I can't even remember what I read because I get bored easily.

Maybe it's gonna have an improved version of NTFS or its specifically made for the new 64 bit processors that are being made within reach of us home users. Maybe its just gonna be pretty to look at.

I don't know. I'll worry about it another year.

jarink
02-16-2005, 10:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddiemac0:
ME or 2000, I can't remember which (maybe both?), was what should have been referred to as the "Y2K virus," so the only thing you missed out on was a massive headache. My brother was on one of the other, and I always had to clean his machine and fix its instabilities. Windows 98 was about as bullet proof as a MS OS ever was, but that just IMHO.

What the hell is Longhorn supposed to be anyways, as far as better than XP? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was ME. Bleh. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Longhorn was originally supposed to add many, many new 'under the hood' technologies to Windows, but many of them have been dropped. The most famous of these was WinFS which was a new file system that was basically a morph of NTFS and SQL to provide better cataloging and content searching/retrieval. Some of the parts that are still supposed to happen are a new GUI (Code named Avalon; fully 3D realised and taking advantage of 3D video card accelleration), new version of IE (it was announced recently that IE7 will now be available before Longhorn) as well as improved security features, such as NX (No Execute) support. I have also heard of tighter DRM integration, possibly including hardware DRM support.

NetDaemon
02-16-2005, 10:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by huggy87:
...Do any of you think it would be worth waiting half a year to get this OS factory installed?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Longhorn due in half a year? LOL!!!

That OS is a good year and a half away from official release.

Yeah, even though MS itself said it will be out by 2006, they are well known for missing their release dates, not one but several times.

It happened with each and every version of Windows.

Longhorn is not even in Alpha stage. Remember, in software development there`s always the Alpha testing stage, then several Betas, a couple Release Candidates and finally the Retail version. That process in MS usually takes more than a year.

On the other hand, Windows XP 64bit Edition IS a good quarter away, they just released Release Candidate 2 to the beta testers, so the Retail version should be out by April or May.

If it were me, I`d upgrade to an AMD64 PC and grab the 64bit Windows the moment it`s released.

Oh, wait. I already have an AMD64 PC and I`m writing this post from the Release Candidate 1 of 64bit XP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

han freak solo
02-16-2005, 10:42 PM
"Someone please tell me what rudders are for..."

For missing icebergs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

No, really. It helps counteract torque of the engine at low airspeed, it allows you to point your aircraft while taxiing on the ground, it allows you to get a shot against your target that would be impossible without a rudder, it allows you to side slip and do other maneuvers.

If your engine quits and you flap your rudder back and forth very quickly you can still maitain forward flight. (Don't listen to him, he's lying again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif)

Okay, I slip between reality and fantasy when I'm tired. 2nd paragraph is based on reality.

EnGaurde
02-16-2005, 10:50 PM
hmmm
now ive never understood this.

ive used ms products like ME xp etc as it MS is the only serious platform for sims.

dont kid yourselves 'nix people, your day will come but its just not here yet.

ive worked with ms products for about 10 years now as well, toyed with them for a few before that.

i just dont get too many deaths, any problems really, nothing untowards. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

im actually impressed with my install of xp, as everything runs first time on it, nothing crashes out, all software plays well together, no glitches / slowdowns / failures etc.

i do rebuild every 6 motnhs, if that makes any difference. Even so i have an NT install thats been running for 6 years supporting an important process. One reboot after every few months, and its flawless.

i just dont have anything much to bash M$ with.

am i normal?

han freak solo
02-16-2005, 10:53 PM
Yeah, we like to trash M$ but what are we gonna game with, UNIX?

NetDaemon
02-16-2005, 11:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnGaurde:
hmmm
now ive never understood this.

ive used ms products like ME xp etc as it MS is the only serious platform for sims.

dont kid yourselves 'nix people, your day will come but its just not here yet.

ive worked with ms products for about 10 years now as well, toyed with them for a few before that.

i just dont get too many deaths, any problems really, nothing untowards. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

im actually impressed with my install of xp, as everything runs first time on it, nothing crashes out, all software plays well together, no glitches / slowdowns / failures etc.

i _do_ rebuild every 6 motnhs, if that makes any difference. Even so i have an NT install thats been running for 6 years supporting an important process. One reboot after every few months, and its flawless.

i just dont have anything much to bash M$ with.

am i normal? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Odd, so far your post is the only one that mentions ´nix at all, yet you call us ´nix people when all we`ve been doing is talking about Windows pros and cons.

So anyone who criticizes an MS OS is a ´nix people?

As for bashing, I have seen none so far, only legitimate opinions and descriptions of MS OSes.

Yet, being one of those ´nix people you mention, I can´t wait for the time the CEDEGA people make IL-2/FB/AEP/PF playable under ´nix so I can finally format my Windows partition http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

P.S. Yes you are normal, we`re all a bunch of ´nix freaks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Destraex
02-16-2005, 11:31 PM
I have also been building my own boxes since the year dot and am a firm believer in NOT selling your rig and instead driving it into the ground for at least 3 years and only upgrading what you have to until finally you make a new rig and give away or use the old one as a server.

It will save you megabucks if you are consifering an alienware box. What a rip off!!

Shakthamac
02-16-2005, 11:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by huggy87:
I was planning on buying a new 'puter this summer. Probably a Dell XPS or Alienware. Anyway, I just read about this new OS, Longhorn, coming down the pipe. Do any of you think it would be worth waiting half a year to get this OS factory installed? Has anyone had bad experiences trying to upgrade an OS in the past?

I'm also wondering if it is even worth it to upgrade now. I currently have a three year old dell with 1.8ghz, 768 RAM, and a Radeon 9600XT. My performance is OK, but I definitely get lag. (especially when firing in PF). Any thoughts? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally I agree with about half of what Baldie said.

The part I agree with:

Spend the most you can afford at the time to get the best possible rig available. Simply put, computers fall victim to the idea of planned obsolesence. Regardless of how your rig performs, you'll still be upgrading in a couple years just to run the latest and greatest software.

The part I disagree with:

I would recommend you build your own computer, if you have the ability. Having worked pc retail for a few years I am well aware of the **** that mainstream computer manufacturers try to pawn off on people. It seems like you are getting a great deal but as I was taught, nothing in life is ever free. I'm sure you could get a nice rig from Dell, Alienware, Falcon-NW, etc, but you are going to pay a lot more for "quality" components than you would buying them yourself. Keep in mind that those quality components are never advertised and when selected boost your price quite a bit. Personally, I like knowing where my components came from.

Unless you have a lot of money, I wouldn't worry about selling your rig. 99% of the time, nobody ever wants to give you what its worth because its a year old. Its kind of like driving a brand new car off the lot.

As far as Longhorn goes, I have heard unsubstantiated rumors that it is going to have the ability to report hacked software and the like to Microsoft. Im not saying that I am a software pirate, but anything that has that capability makes me wonder what else they have built into that OS that I won't know about.

JunkoIfurita
02-17-2005, 03:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yet, being one of those ´nix people you mention, I can´t wait for the time the CEDEGA people make IL-2/FB/AEP/PF playable under ´nix so I can finally format my Windows partition Wink.

P.S. Yes you are normal, we`re all a bunch of ´nix freaks Cool <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hear hear! Even if you're being sarcastic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Or even better, if all software companies had as much money as Epic megagames and Id, then we'd have linux ports of everything.

Longhorn will probably be as least as good as XP, ONCE they've patched the hell out of it. But the RIAA already has MS ear, though, so they're difficult to trust. Media Player 10 ALREADY reports Mp3 files as pirated to the authorities. Fortunately, they don't take any action (as far as I know, I haven't got it installed) unless people have a certain volume of Mp3 files on their computer.

Sort of like the difference between 'for personal use, man' and 'hardcore dealer'.

Great, so the music listening population of the world are branded as either stoners or dealers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

----

JunkoIfurita
02-17-2005, 03:09 AM
ps eddiemac0, please please change your sig :-P

This is the 3rd thread I've seen so far that's been unwittingly jacked in to a rudder explanation thread. It was a good joke for a second but enough is enough, eh?

Mind you, if you just put some ---- or something so people knew it was a sig, that'd be fine too.

Cheers,
Junko 'Ifurita' Kimura

----

han freak solo
02-17-2005, 07:31 AM
"ps eddiemac0, please please change your sig :-P

This is the 3rd thread I've seen so far that's been unwittingly jacked in to a rudder explanation thread. It was a good joke for a second but enough is enough, eh?"

That's a sig? Whaaaaaa????? Hooked in the cheek again!

WWSensei
02-17-2005, 09:56 AM
Built 2 of my own computers. And had bought a Dell. My laptop is IBM and my other 3 boxes are Dells.

I will never build my own again. The amount of time I have to spend tweaking this or upgrading that on those boxes is ridiculous. Finding out your new flash bios is incompatible with your SATA driver is not fun.

When one of my Dell's has a problem I make a phone call and usually by the next day a guy shows up at my house and fixes the problem. I get to stand there and watch him and drink a beer.

I'm probably going to get Alienware next time out. Sorry, but in my opinion and experience the build your own boxes don't save enough money for the PITA factor involved. I may not have the latest/greatest piece of component in my OEM system but when they go it's someone's else's headache--not mine. I have 2 of the machines with all the bell and whistle components. They don't always play nice together...

crazyivan1970
02-17-2005, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
PS: Don't "build your own". Thats the dumbest advice ever. You can't recoup nearly as much from your rig when its time to buy a new one. If you hang on to a red-hot alienware/falcon for a year, you can still get a good price for it. A year-old homebuilt is worth zilch, so you end up upgrading a piece at a time, untill some incompatibility (PCIE anyone?) causes you to start from scratch.... all over. And longhorn is going to suck hardcore. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disagree in all counts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Baldie needs reality check http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aaron_GT
02-17-2005, 10:04 AM
"Yet, being one of those ´nix people you mention, I can´t wait for the time the CEDEGA people make IL-2/FB/AEP/PF playable under ´nix so I can finally format my Windows partition Wink."

Someone was posting screen shots of FB/AEP running on Linux a while ago. Since I stupidly bought an ATI card (new drivers out - maybe they will fix the problems) I've not really been able to take advantage of Cedega.

Maple_Tiger
02-17-2005, 12:43 PM
Once I reached you post, han freak solo, I totaly forgot what this thread is about lol.

WTF. is Longhorn? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Obi_Kwiet
02-17-2005, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
PS: Don't "build your own". Thats the dumbest advice ever. You can't recoup nearly as much from your rig when its time to buy a new one. If you hang on to a red-hot alienware/falcon for a year, you can still get a good price for it. A year-old homebuilt is worth zilch, so you end up upgrading a piece at a time, untill some incompatibility (PCIE anyone?) causes you to start from scratch.... all over. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What are you talking about!? Even if you don't sell the PC as a whole, you can easily sell the individual pieces. Plus, buying a POS as opposed to building and equivalent on your own is going to add 30% to 80% right on top. So in the end you still profit. And if you don't reformat as soon as you get the new PC with all the preloaded **** the ship with it slows your PC down quite a bit too. Also, components used in POS's are usually generic pieces of ****. Also, it is wise too see what will be released soon before going out and spending a bunch of money on a PC. I bet those people who spent 500 on a 9800XT a month before the 6800 came out felt pretty dumb. Case in point the R520 is scheduled to some out in March.

EnGaurde
02-17-2005, 03:40 PM
i think this comes down to the tech savvy and throw money at it people.

i biuld my own cars too, whereas no doubt the non car interested people amongst us adopt the throw money at it approach.

the... CBF principle? Cant Be Fu... also born out of older, more dispoable income individuals Vs younger, make every cent count and "i'll upgrade because i dont have the full amount for a brand new brand name pc" lads.

you can pay more for parts. You can find retailers who will sell you parts at system prices, providing you buy a set amount.

im going out on a limb here, agreeing with an earlier post in so far that unless you specify a brand part you will get cheap taiwanese **** in your $5000 off the shelf rig. Theyll stick the cpu and video card in your face, and block your view of the non name hdd.

Cmon people, dont you know how brand name selling/advertising works????

and ease up there nixers, i am a nix fan, been that way since my Unify db admin and linux support days. All power to the command line, beats mice hands down. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

i know its arrogant to say this, but if you buy brandname, youre earning too much money or you dont want to understand what gives you a real, balanced system with no bottlenecks and highest performance.

but then again, were all different.

meh.

VW-IceFire
02-17-2005, 03:51 PM
Building your own PC is by far the best and most rewarding experience. But its not for everyone and it takes some time, experience and knowledge.

As for Longhorn, I'll be surprised if we see it by 2007.

Forget about it. If you need a new PC, let the next OS from MS be the least of your concerns. Its easily changed later on.

eddiemac0
02-17-2005, 04:01 PM
Yeah, my sig was getting a little old... initially it was a legitimate question, but after it started to turning legitimate threads to deviant lifestyles, well... a change was warranted...

DHC2Pilot
02-17-2005, 05:52 PM
When Longhorn comes out, WAIT. Wait about 1 year until after the 1st service pack comes out, the manufacturers have ironed out the driver deficiencies, and the software and hardware companies have adjusted fully to the new kernel being employed. Then buy it. Before that time all you are asking for is headaches. Microsoft wants to get the product out there, start raking in the $$$, then they fix everything that they missed during testing. I've seen it every OS since Win95. Nothing new this time around either.

jarink
02-17-2005, 07:54 PM
THe more I think about it, the more it seems reasonable that the IL2 series would run under *nix using something like Wine. It is, after all, an OpenGL game at it's heart and *nix does support OpenGL... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'd try it but I'm a *nix noob. That, and my Fedora drive (dual boot) decided to burn itslef up a couple months ago and I haven't replaced it yet. Anyone got a link to the IL2 on *nix info? (UBI needs to get better search software! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif )

mortoma
02-17-2005, 09:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Point blank, take it from someone whos been computing for ever: if you can afford to by the very best right now, do it.

If you can't, don't buy jack. Save a little longer. The average price for a hot-rod stays the same, only the performance changes. You can have the hot-rod now, or you can wait for "something better", only to find 6 months latter: something even better came out.

Its a tail-chaser, be sure. By the latest/greatest as soon as you can afford it and ENJOY IT.

PS: Don't "build your own". Thats the dumbest advice ever. You can't recoup nearly as much from your rig when its time to buy a new one. If you hang on to a red-hot alienware/falcon for a year, you can still get a good price for it. A year-old homebuilt is worth zilch, so you end up upgrading a piece at a time, untill some incompatibility (PCIE anyone?) causes you to start from scratch.... all over. And longhorn is going to suck hardcore. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Who cars about recouping the money of a factory built P.O.S.???
Money should not even be a factor. I'd gladly build my own PC even if it cost twice as much and I could later sell it for zilch. Being a PCgamer is not about $$$, it's about getting a nice PC to game with. I can build a PC right now that would blow away anything Alienware or Falcon could build and I'd know all about it since I built it!! Building is the way to go since you know you'll have a good PC that kicks butt. Buying prebuilt is for technophobes and computer illiterates, let's face it. Build and you'll be a PC expert in no time. Buy prebuilt and you'll have to call tech support instead of knowing how to fix it yourself. Think of building as 'self-enrichment'.

And as far as Longhorn being "factory installed" versus not ( original poster comment ) you can install any OS as well as any factory, be sure. There's nothing a factory can do that would make their install any better than an install you did yourself. Period....

woofiedog
02-18-2005, 01:45 AM
Link: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,113631,00.asp



Topics &gt; Software &gt; Windows &gt; Longhorn &gt;


Your Next OS: Windows 2006?

Preview sports new file system, gee-whiz graphics, and some security fixes.

Scott Spanbauer
From the January 2004 issue of PC World magazine

Previous Page 1 2 Next
The next version of Windows, code-named Longhorn, is still in the early stages of its journey to the retail corral, but our hands-on look at a preview reveals features we'd love to have now--while raising some intriguing questions.

In addition to the interface revisions, including the new Sidebar, that we saw in our first glimpse of Longhorn (see "Sneak Peek: Windows XP's Successor"), Microsoft has altered Windows Explorer, the program that controls the desktop and its computer- and file-browsing windows.

In our preview code (the official beta isn't due until the second half of 2004, and rumor has it that the upgrade may not ship until 2006), Windows Explorer routinely displayed much more information about files and computer resources than it does in Windows XP. New links in Explorer panels let users and/or applications associate search keywords, comments, and categories with files, data within files, or objects stored on other devices, computers, or networks. This is the first evidence of Longhorn's new WinFS file system, which lets you find related resources regardless of their physical location or object type.

Explorer's attractive displays of files and properties come courtesy of Longhorn's new graphics subsystem, code-named Avalon, which will hand much of its work to the PC's graphics subsystem. Minimum requirements for the preview call for an 800-MHz Pentium III processor, 256MB of memory, and a graphics card with 32MB of video RAM. Such specs are beefier than XP requires, but Longhorn-capable systems should be commonplace by the time the OS ships.


Fixing XP security
Longhorn addresses some long-languishing Windows XP problems. The Internet Connection Firewall is on by default and has been upgraded to be bidirectional, stopping both incoming threats and any outgoing connections attempted by worms and Trojan horses. Internet Explorer, meanwhile, at last includes a pop-up blocker just as every other Web browser in the world does, as well as plug-in and download managers and a convenient tracks-covering feature that clears all cache, cookie, history, and personal data. But Palladium security technology--now known as Next Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB)--isn't yet visible in the new OS.

Also new: Speech, a Windows XP Control Panel applet with no apparent purpose, in Longhorn contains an actual speech-recognition engine complete with training text. And a new User Accounts setting allows each user's appointments to display in the Login screen--but Longhorn so far lacks any bundled calendar software. This may simply be evidence of Longhorn's tighter linking with another upcoming Microsoft product: the next version of Office.

John_Stag
02-18-2005, 02:16 AM
Back when I were a lad, and computers had hand cranks to start them, an OS called Windows 95 came out, and like a mug, I bought it straight away.

Bad move.

Speaking from the experience I had with that piece of prototype junk, I wouldn't even consider putting an OS on my system until it's "replacement" has come out.

Just my take on it.

Aaron_GT
02-18-2005, 03:03 AM
If you want a PC that is cutting edge then going to a professional company that can order components in bulk at a discount can be cheaper than buying everything retail and building your own. However if you are (like me) willing to have things that have just been superseded then you can get components cheap from those who have to have the latest and then building your own can save you quite a bit.

raisen
02-18-2005, 06:22 AM
Trying to accurately predict the future of 64 bit platforms for home use right now isn´t realistic.
MS have had Longhorn (or whatever it will be called) appearing and disappearing from their release roadmap, since long before the PC manufacturer (Mitsubishi PC Division) I used to work for closed in 1999. Early release is likely to be flaky.
Currently there is only one consumer level 64 bit O/S available, Linux.

Raisen

NetDaemon
02-18-2005, 10:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by raisen:
Trying to accurately predict the future of 64 bit platforms for home use right now isn´t realistic.
MS have had Longhorn (or whatever it will be called) appearing and disappearing from their release roadmap, since long before the PC manufacturer (Mitsubishi PC Division) I used to work for closed in 1999. Early release is likely to be flaky.
Currently there is only one consumer level 64 bit O/S available, Linux.

Raisen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hmmm, you`re wrong there pal.

First: Longhorn won`t be a 64bit only OS, the 32bit preview has been around for sometime and the 64bit one recently appeared a couple months ago, so there will be both versions available when released sometime in late 2006 or early 2007, 32 and 64bit.

Second: the 64bit version of WindowsXP is at the RC2 level since early February and it`s due to be released to retail in April/May of this year.

I've been trying the RC1 version of XP 64 since January and it`s pretty stable and complete, only lacking 64bit driver support but that should be fixed on release.


As for your last comment about Linux, I agree 100%. I myself use (and are typing this post on) Fedora Core 3 x86-64 version, after having tried same versions of Mandrake and Suse since January.

So yeah, right now Linux is the only consumer level 64bit OS available, but WindowsXP 64 will be available in a couple months too.

BTW, IL2/FB/AEP/PF runs great on WinXP 64 RC1 even with ATI`s beta 64bit drivers!!!

raisen
02-18-2005, 11:06 AM
&gt;BTW, IL2/FB/AEP/PF runs great on WinXP 64 RC1 even with ATI`s beta 64bit drivers!!!&lt;

Being ex R&D/Tech support I have experience of ATI beta product, the chances of that working perfectly across the board with everything you want to run are slim, to none, and slim just left town.


Also worthy of consideration..... IL2 etc is 64 bit object code (ie not compiled with 64 bit compiler) and makes no use of anybodies 64 bit instruction set, pal... :-)

64 bit XP in a couple of months ???? believe it when I see it. Don´t forget, at the moment, we only have AMD making consumer 64 bit CPU´s. Intel stated that they did not see the point of going 64 bit for consumers as lately as December/January...

I don´t mean to p*** on anybodies parade, but it will take a couple of years at least before native 64 bit software starts to make its way down to us consumers.

Raisen

lbhskier37
02-18-2005, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by raisen:
&gt;BTW, IL2/FB/AEP/PF runs great on WinXP 64 RC1 even with ATI`s beta 64bit drivers!!!&lt;

64 bit XP in a couple of months ???? believe it when I see it. Don´t forget, at the moment, we only have AMD making consumer 64 bit CPU´s. Intel stated that they did not see the point of going 64 bit for consumers as lately as December/January...


Raisen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Little out of date on your info. Intel 64 bit chips will be out in a few weeks to correspond to the launch of 64bit XP.

NetDaemon
02-18-2005, 12:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by raisen:
&gt;BTW, IL2/FB/AEP/PF runs great on WinXP 64 RC1 even with ATI`s beta 64bit drivers!!!&lt;

Being ex R&D/Tech support I have experience of ATI beta product, the chances of that working perfectly across the board with everything you want to run are slim, to none, and slim just left town. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, I believe you`re calling me a liar here. If not my apologies. If yes, well ask the people in here that own AMD64 PCs how PF runs on WinXP64 RC1 with ATI´s beta drivers and you`ll be surprised by the answers. Unless you wanna call us liars too.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Also worthy of consideration..... IL2 etc is 64 bit object code (ie not compiled with 64 bit compiler) and makes no use of anybodies 64 bit instruction set, pal... :-) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well "pal", I never said IL2/PF runs in 64bit mode, I only said it runs great in WinXP64.

You know "pal", there`s a thing called WOW64 (Windows On Windows64) which happens to let 32bit apps like PF run on the 64bit Windows through emulation but without a performance penalty. You ought to do some more reading before posting on things you`re clueless "pal"http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>64 bit XP in a couple of months ???? believe it when I see it. Don´t forget, at the moment, we only have AMD making consumer 64 bit CPU´s. Intel stated that they did not see the point of going 64 bit for consumers as lately as December/January...

I don´t mean to p*** on anybodies parade, but it will take a couple of years at least before native 64 bit software starts to make its way down to us consumers.

Raisen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehehe, you`re only pissing on your own parade here "pal". Everyone in the know, knows that info is so off. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JunkoIfurita
02-18-2005, 09:00 PM
jarink, I think the jury is still out as far as running IL2 under *nix. I was interested in it myself.

WineX has become Cedega, and on the Cedega WIKI the official report is that IL2:FB crashes halfway through the install process. But on the same page they have two screenshots of IL2:FB running perfectly under Fedora Core in Cedega http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Still, if it is possible it'd be with NVidia hardware. Their drivers seem to give the best performance under *nix (For a while I was getting better UT2004 frame rate under *nix than I was in XP), but be warned, their latest driver has a incompatibility problem with Fedora Core 3. Either use 6111, or wait for a replacement.

I'm going to wait 'til another NVidia driver comes out than get a 3 month license to Cedega and see how things go.

For all you *nix fans out there, hang tight and I should have some info in a month or so http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

PS Eddiemac0, thanks mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

----

WWSensei
02-18-2005, 09:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Who cars about recouping the money of a factory built P.O.S.???
Money should not even be a factor. I'd gladly build my own PC even if it cost twice as much and I could later sell it for zilch. Being a PCgamer is not about $$$, it's about getting a nice PC to game with. I can build a PC right now that would blow away anything Alienware or Falcon could build and I'd know all about it since I built it!! Building is the way to go since you know you'll have a good PC that kicks butt. Buying prebuilt is for technophobes and computer illiterates, let's face it. Build and you'll be a PC expert in no time. Buy prebuilt and you'll have to call tech support instead of knowing how to fix it yourself. Think of building as 'self-enrichment'.

And as far as Longhorn being "factory installed" versus not ( original poster comment ) you can install any OS as well as any factory, be sure. There's nothing a factory can do that would make their install any better than an install you did yourself. Period.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, lot of chip on the shoulder assumptions there. First off, I've never paid more than $1500 for my "factory built" PCs. I've put far more money in the home built. Even if I only include the original build costs the difference is less than 4200 (US). The number of hours spent fiddling with it has been far more expensive to me. Sure, they have higher end components but they are also far more problematic and when something goes wrong there is no else to call. I'm no rookie on computer building. My first two computers came as parts and I had to solder the bread boards....back before M$ was a gleam in little Billy's eye.

Been running my same "factory built" machine for 2 years now and it still runs the latest just fine.

My computer is a tool for me and a source of entertainment. For me, anything requireing more than 5 minutes to get it going is a waste of time. I don't build my own car, or perform my own medical diagnosis. Some people do and more power to them. It's not my bag.

But you can keep the sanctimonious geekier-than-thou mindset.

r0bman
02-18-2005, 10:01 PM
i'm going to have to disagree w/ a few people above...

if you know anything, go the "build your own" route. why?

(1) scavenge.

every 6 months or so, buy something new yet compatible to get "up to date." i've been using the same vid card in 3 different "computers" for almost 2 years... the trick is to keep everything else up to date (it's a 9600SE, drastically overclocked thanks to some serious cooling.

(2)

price.

here's my rig: p4 3.0 (clocked to 3.4) gig of 3200 memory, my 9600, and a 200 gig hard drive. I grabbed the hard drive, mobo, (foxconn, don't remember the model, but I love it), and memory for about $500. and it's unstoppable.

next up is a vid card upgrade, but it's not for a while... you can't beat a build-your-own that you drop a few hundred into every 6 months or so... be it memory, vid card, and if you get a decent mobo you can upgrade the processor... but DON'T do it if you don't know what you're doing... waste your money on an alienware and be totally stoked w/ the sheer power http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jarink
02-18-2005, 10:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JunkoIfurita:
jarink, I think the jury is still out as far as running IL2 under *nix. I was interested in it myself.

WineX has become Cedega, and on the Cedega WIKI the official report is that IL2:FB crashes halfway through the install process. But on the same page they have two screenshots of IL2:FB running perfectly under Fedora Core in Cedega http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, but that would run it only in DirectX, correct? Oh, I just realised that while you can switch between DirectX and OpenGL for video, it's still going to be using DirectImput and DirectSound... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Still, if it is possible it'd be with NVidia hardware. Their drivers seem to give the best performance under *nix (For a while I was getting better UT2004 frame rate under *nix than I was in XP), but be warned, their latest driver has a incompatibility problem with Fedora Core 3. Either use 6111, or wait for a replacement. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FX5700 and nForce 2 mobo! I'm ready!

raisen
02-21-2005, 04:03 PM
Whoah.... I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone with that "pal" thing. However t'was not my good self that initiated that wee jape.

Not calling anyone here a liar at all. Wouldn't dream of it, too much industry experience, I've seen software run/not run on the same kit/config too often in the past. I've had very practical experience however, in an R&D setting with ATI alpha and beta divers, and Windows RC1 releases.

Restating the obvious ....

Without 64bit O/S and compiler, a 64bit CPU is simply running in 32 bit mode. Dev's are not yet actively working on 64 bit games, the platform isn't all there yet. Think back to the early days of Pentium, there was quite a gap before the games positively required a Pentium, and Windows only went full 32 bit with NT. I ran Doom and Quake (not quite so good, but not too bad with the sound off, running in a small window in X, on a DX4 100 under Linux and SCO Openserver with lxrun. Full 32 bit home O/S's only arrived with 2000. I use 2000 myself, it's powerful and robust, but I feel it isn't really a home user O/S, XP is far better for that application, and that's hardly mature now in 2005 (read up on the security issues of the last 12 months).

An XP 64bit RC1 is circulating, but this certainly does not mean a retail/OEM release is imminent by any means, 98 took an age. MS are predictably reticent to publish dates, likely in order to avoid any negative press in the event of delays for new content/further development. Don't hold your breath for this one, you may end up looking a little strained.

ATI alpha and beta releases aren't universally useful. I remember one notable RAGE II driver that was designed specifically for Quake, and Quake only, it simply didn't work. Quality Control for all vendors seems to have notably improved however, something of quite that scale is unlikely these days. Universal optimal, or even acceptable in all available apps however is less predictable.

Full support will be there, but it's unlikely we'll see any significant change (ie....O/S/CPU/Compiler, and finally applications) anytime soon, therefore you wont be seeing the full benefit of a 64 bit investment, certainly not within the year.

Best Regards

Raisen

raisen
02-21-2005, 04:07 PM
Incidentally, apologies for the delay. Got back in the UK from Barcelona where I made the previous posts this weekend, first opportunity to reply.

.....And seriously, no offence meant folks.

And again, all the best....

Raisen