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View Full Version : which thread had the good photo's of the 109's at a recent airshow ?



grifter2u
08-31-2007, 10:38 PM
in the last few months a somebody posted some good quality pictures they took at a recent airshow, but i cant locate that specific thread with the search function anymore.

he had a number of different aircraft, but a significant number of them showed very good quality pictures taken of various 109's taking off, landing, and on low level flight.

anybody remember the thread by any chance ?

grifter2u
08-31-2007, 10:38 PM
in the last few months a somebody posted some good quality pictures they took at a recent airshow, but i cant locate that specific thread with the search function anymore.

he had a number of different aircraft, but a significant number of them showed very good quality pictures taken of various 109's taking off, landing, and on low level flight.

anybody remember the thread by any chance ?

Xiolablu3
09-01-2007, 04:05 AM
Not what you are looking for but this is a nice shot :-


http://www.error-net.com/webhost/sts/ftp/privtommy/109g6.jpg

They were posted by PrivTommy at Ukdedicated forums and I 'stole' them and posted them here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Heres the link, nice Me262 pics too :-

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php...0785&highlight=tommy (http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=10785&highlight=tommy)

GIAP.Shura
09-01-2007, 04:52 AM
Here's one. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/6301082823/p/1)

Xiolablu3
09-01-2007, 04:59 AM
Nice pics!

I have yet to see any leading edge slats on that Bf109 Red 7,

can anyone point them out to me?

http://h.ds.free.fr/aircraft_gallery/galleries/Ferte_05/IMG_0967.jpg

JZG_Thiem
09-01-2007, 05:40 AM
Xio, for some reason Red7 doesnt seem to have (had)any. I made a few pics myyself during an airshow. just checked them and tbh i coulnt find evidence for em. It seems logical to me tho to remove them. They are a near-stall-situation aid for combat, two situations a 109 these days will not be put into. So removing them maybe removes the risk that a pilot at airshows gets *surprised* by extending slats once he DOES get near stall. Like it was written in war records: for newb pilots the sudden extension of the slats could be irritating.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/254/im000014sm4.jpg

well, the *wedge* on the wing visible on the left side irritates me i have to say.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9751/im000197yw3.jpg

foxyboy1964
09-01-2007, 06:24 AM
Here's a nice one from Uther. The 190 didn't fly at this show, so maybe there are some other photos of another show.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/899...991069275#8991069275 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/8991069275?r=8991069275#8991069275)

tomtheyak
09-01-2007, 07:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Nice pics!

I have yet to see any leading edge slats on that Bf109 Red 7,

can anyone point them out to me?

http://h.ds.free.fr/aircraft_gallery/galleries/Ferte_05/IMG_0967.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There ARE open in that pic... just about. Look at the aircrafts port wing, right next to the pitot tube; you can see the slat extended a fraction. And as far as i can tell that is no wedge Theim... I think that IS the slat just partially open

grifter2u
09-01-2007, 11:51 AM
thanks for the answers guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GIAP.Shura:
Here's one. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/6301082823/p/1) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats exactly the one i was after !
thx Shura

the clarity and sharpness of EFG_beber's pictures is very good, it must have been a good digital slr he was using.

Xiolablu3
09-01-2007, 02:21 PM
Thanks for that, Thiem.

I am quite sure the slats were not made for combat, however. They were an aid for landing for planes with a high wing loading. They add lift at the expense of drag.

They could also be useful in combat, but they could also be unpredictable and dangerous. Even some veteran pilots hated them, not just new pilots.

Gunther Rall comments on slats :-

'And then, which I didn't like this feature, the slots, Ja? Why slots? Look at the wing of the Spitfire! Thats what we call elliptical shaped. Its beautiful elope on the wing, the Spitfire. We don't need lift help until takeoff and landing. You know? We can make it with a little bigger wing.'


I wonder if they glued them shut or removed them from Red 7? They should surely be visibly fully open on that pic where its coming in to land or taking off.

I know that Ray Hanna blamed the Bf109's leading edge slats for his son, Mark HAnnas death. Not saying he's right or wrong, but hes surely a pilot who knows as much about WW2 aircraft as anyone.

JZG_Thiem
09-01-2007, 06:28 PM
tomtheyak, i think you are absolutley right. The *wedge* on my pic is maybe the edge of the slat being visible. The pic of red7 landing proves that imo. Looking again on my pics (close ups) i have no other idea than to assume that red7 has indeed working slats, and they really almost perfectly fit into the wing when not extended.

P.S.: pretty stupid me. On the same airshow i asked the owner to make a pic of the cockpit (instruments) for me, which he did, but i never asked about slats, i just didnt come to think about asking him. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Xiolablu3
09-02-2007, 04:29 AM
Surely if they were fully working, they should be fully extended here for sure? This is the time when they are most needed.

http://h.ds.free.fr/aircraft_gallery/galleries/Ferte_05/IMG_0967.jpg

JZG_Thiem
09-02-2007, 07:11 AM
The slats on the 109 are working automatically and are not pilot operated. Im not sure if its only gravity or Springs intended to push them out and extend, some expert may help out here. The force pushing them back and keeping them retracted is the airflow.
So they will extend in two cases
1) low airspeed = spring force or gravity &gt; drag of airflow
2) high AoA where the vector of the force of the airflow is not pointing directly reverse to the extracting force (but some real experts may correct me here).
Now, the 109 being one of the most rare warbirds as of today, i doubt that during landing they will be brought in with minimum airspeed where slats deploy. The pic shows that on the port wing this is however the case, but not on the starboard wing. Again, since they operate automatically, depending on the areodynamic state of each wing (separately!) this pic makes sense to me.
The only guy today with considerable flight time on a 109 is Walter Eichhorn. I have just read in a forum, that while learning how to fly the 109 himself he was trained by a guy called Harmann. Maybe it makes sense to ask him. Anyone knows if hes got an email adress?

Ironman69
09-02-2007, 07:40 AM
Die Rotte 7 ( The Red 7 ) was a conversion from a Spanish-built Buchon. These had slightly thinner and longer wings than war-time production german 109 wings, and thus had the slots eliminated. Notice in the pics above, how thin and slightly longer they are compared to real german 109s. Compare the pic above of the 109G-6 FM+BB wing & and red 7's wing.

JZG_Thiem
09-02-2007, 07:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ironman69:
Die Rotte 7 ( The Red 7 ) was a conversion from a Spanish-built Buchon. These had slightly thinner and longer wings than war-time production german 109 wings, and thus had the slots eliminated. .. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i doubt that the Red7 has no slats. Have a look at their own webpage, and how they desribe repairing the slats after the landing accident. Pictutres included.

Me air company (http://shop.me-air-company.de/product_info.php?cPath=2_4_65_55&products_id=119&XTCsid=3f4247b0efa805b4c5aa60ef0f4899d9)

trumper
09-02-2007, 07:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Thanks for that, Thiem.



I know that Ray Hanna blamed the Bf109's leading edge slats for his son, Mark HAnnas death. Not saying he's right or wrong, but hes surely a pilot who knows as much about WW2 aircraft as anyone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never heard an official outcome of the Mark Hanna crash.I was under the impression it was down to fumes in the cockpit.Can you find the info for us please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jirozaemon
09-02-2007, 08:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JZG_Thiem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ironman69:
Die Rotte 7 ( The Red 7 ) was a conversion from a Spanish-built Buchon. These had slightly thinner and longer wings than war-time production german 109 wings, and thus had the slots eliminated. .. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i doubt that the Red7 has no slats. Have a look at their own webpage, and how they desribe repairing the slats after the landing accident. Pictutres included.

Me air company (http://shop.me-air-company.de/product_info.php?cPath=2_4_65_55&products_id=119&XTCsid=3f4247b0efa805b4c5aa60ef0f4899d9) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, "Vorflügel" means slats in German - so "Rote 7" indeed features them...

Cheers,

Jiro

Xiolablu3
09-02-2007, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trumper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Thanks for that, Thiem.



I know that Ray Hanna blamed the Bf109's leading edge slats for his son, Mark HAnnas death. Not saying he's right or wrong, but hes surely a pilot who knows as much about WW2 aircraft as anyone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never heard an official outcome of the Mark Hanna crash.I was under the impression it was down to fumes in the cockpit.Can you find the info for us please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


EDITED : I really dont know enough about this to speculate. But I remember a long letter written by Ray telling some authority that their suspicions of pilot error were wrong - he was there and watched the whole thing happen.

I have searched and cannot find any information now - not even that letter.