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Erhanninja
06-15-2018, 12:28 AM
Is there any way this is going to be fixed. They gave him bloody light attack spam under name of reworks. Its just disappointing. We as console community complained about PK light attack spam. They created infinite light attack spam with Aramusha. Now we have Orochi. It just shows how devs are detached from the community. Why adjust the game based on PC while biggest player base is on the console?

Its a real struggle on console. I keep losing to people just because I canít react on time. If I get hit by one light I get hit from all combo. I have to try ridiculously hard to block. Parrying is complete guess. Then I get GB coz Iím so focused on blocking. How can I win against a guy that his single light attack is faster then every single move I have? Yeah sure I have to bait. What if he doesnít do dodge attack? I canít keep blocking forever.

Let me give you a comparison how fast he is. He can do back step attack as soon as throw warden zone. His heavies are nearly as fast as my Nobu light maybe even same. Iím forced to play Conq so I can do full block stance to block light spam

Knight_Raime
06-15-2018, 12:36 AM
While I feel for you on some level please don't lump all of us console folks with yourself. Not all of us share your issues with "light spam" I certainly don't.
They're not detached. They've stated on more than one occasion that these changes are made for the overall health of the game. While it might sound smarter to appeal to the lesser skilled bigger casual portion of the game it completely guts the longevity of the game to do so. Because you're shortening the skill gap on a massive scale by having things being slower and easier to react to. If a person can master the game quickly and easily the person doesn't feel as accomplished as they could.

If you eat the first hit of a quick light chain and are a reflex hero switching to try and block the second one immediately screws you. Don't do that.
His rework didn't give him faster heavies afaik. So you must have always struggled against those. Nothing will be fixed because there is nothing to fix.
This is a player made issue not an actual game issue. You can either commit to trying to better yourself as a player through looking up guides, using training, and picking up the hero yourself to learn the feel of them. Or you can accept the game isn't for you anymore and move along.

The devs are not going to go back to the slower and more easily played game. This is something you're going to have to accept if you want to continue to play. Bashing them is not only not productive but is also uncalled for.

Lord_Cherubi
06-15-2018, 12:49 AM
While I feel for you on some level please don't lump all of us console folks with yourself. Not all of us share your issues with "light spam" I certainly don't.
They're not detached. They've stated on more than one occasion that these changes are made for the overall health of the game. While it might sound smarter to appeal to the lesser skilled bigger casual portion of the game it completely guts the longevity of the game to do so. Because you're shortening the skill gap on a massive scale by having things being slower and easier to react to. If a person can master the game quickly and easily the person doesn't feel as accomplished as they could.

If you eat the first hit of a quick light chain and are a reflex hero switching to try and block the second one immediately screws you. Don't do that.
His rework didn't give him faster heavies afaik. So you must have always struggled against those. Nothing will be fixed because there is nothing to fix.
This is a player made issue not an actual game issue. You can either commit to trying to better yourself as a player through looking up guides, using training, and picking up the hero yourself to learn the feel of them. Or you can accept the game isn't for you anymore and move along.

The devs are not going to go back to the slower and more easily played game. This is something you're going to have to accept if you want to continue to play. Bashing them is not only not productive but is also uncalled for.

Remember a while back when i was 100% certain my reflexes were on point but i still got raped by the light spam? Well now im 100% sure they've lowkey done something to the lag/delay, suddenly i can block them no problem. I still steuggle against god-tier rochis but spammers don't last a second versus me anymore lol.

Im playing daily so i might just have adapted to it but i swear to god it felt like one day i had huge issues with it and the next morning i was blocking them no problem.

Knight_Raime
06-15-2018, 12:51 AM
Remember a while back when i was 100% certain my reflexes were on point but i still got raped by the light spam? Well now im 100% sure they've lowkey done something to the lag/delay, suddenly i can block them no problem. I still steuggle against god-tier rochis but spammers don't last a second versus me anymore lol.

Im playing daily so i might just have adapted to it but i swear to god it felt like one day i had huge issues with it and the next morning i was blocking them no problem.

Two things they did that probably helped you was the addition of their new latency system. Where they added 33ms to nearly every offensive action in the game. Essentially making nearly everything a frame longer. And they also made some under the hood tweaks to reflex guard. Which lessened the chance of being stunlocked to death (from my own testing) but didn't remove it entirely. Plus playing a lot does help.

Lord_Cherubi
06-15-2018, 12:55 AM
Two things they did that probably helped you was the addition of their new latency system. Where they added 33ms to nearly every offensive action in the game. Essentially making nearly everything a frame longer. And they also made some under the hood tweaks to reflex guard. Which lessened the chance of being stunlocked to death (from my own testing) but didn't remove it entirely. Plus playing a lot does help.

Ah that explains it! The game felt so much smoother but since i didn't know this i kept telling myself thst im just imagining it lol

UbiJurassic
06-15-2018, 01:06 AM
Thanks dThe fight balance team has been keeping an eye on how the Orochi has been performing since the introduction of the rework. While there aren't any balance changes coming at this time to the hero, we will certainly let players know if we do. We're also more than happy to forward feedback players have to share regarding the Orochi.

I'd love to hear what others think of the Orochi since their rework. Is light spam a serious issue with the character or does it simply take time to adjust to the changes made to them?

Knight_Raime
06-15-2018, 01:25 AM
Thanks dThe fight balance team has been keeping an eye on how the Orochi has been performing since the introduction of the rework. While there aren't any balance changes coming at this time to the hero, we will certainly let players know if we do. We're also more than happy to forward feedback players have to share regarding the Orochi.

I'd love to hear what others think of the Orochi since their rework. Is light spam a serious issue with the character or does it simply take time to adjust to the changes made to them?

I think it just takes time. Kensei's rework spooked a lot of people as well until people learned how to deal with it. Same thing with Orochi. And anything new in general.
While you're forwarding info to the team though you should mention to them that the follow up light after storm rush lands (wether it's blocked or it hits) is buffered. Meaning the attack is slower than it should be. I've been told the devs are aware of the buffered attack issue already. But unsure if they know about it in that specific instance. So i'd appreciate you sending that their way.

mini-12.ubi_
06-15-2018, 03:17 AM
For someone that has played For Honor since the beta, Orochi has always been a great character in my opinion. I felt as though he focused on changing his attack patterns and playing mind games in a way with his opponent instead of relying on combos most of the time. After his rework I feel as though all I see now is the orochi player base soley using the triple light combo (on console). It is honestly detering me from wanting to play the game because I see it so much, it just makes me upset to see such a good character be reduced to one combo set for 95% of a fight. I realize that people say this is a player base issue, but either way I feel as though devs could fix the problem with another rework. I personally am not great at coming up with ideas to replace or change the combo so I will leave that to the devs or others that may have ideas. I just feel as though combos such as this brings toxicity to the player base, with people becoming high reps with this combo really as their main weapon and then taunting how they beat you with it. For casual players that do not have the time to master parrying/blocking/deflecting someones move sets, this should be changed.

disword0
06-15-2018, 05:49 AM
Orochi 's sidelight attack has become functional.
Also, the 400 ms attack is functioning effectively.
However, it can be said that the Orochi attack is not functioning otherwise.
Orochi who is being damaged whenever he can make adjustments is seriously deficient in attack power.
Because I do not have an unblock attack, I feel it very strongly.
Unfortunately the reworked Orochi is getting weaker again.
Like Orochi before reworking, you must raise the attack power by making 32 top damage attacks and 25 storm rush damage.
I would like you to hear the opinions of Japanese players.
I am one of them.
Japanese players have great dissatisfaction with the adjustments they have had.
Many people mourn that they do not understand the contents of the game very much.
If you understand it should not be possible to make such adjustments.
If possible, please listen to the opinions of many Japanese players.
I want such an opportunity.
There should be many useful opinions there.

Siegfried-Z
06-15-2018, 09:21 AM
Thanks dThe fight balance team has been keeping an eye on how the Orochi has been performing since the introduction of the rework. While there aren't any balance changes coming at this time to the hero, we will certainly let players know if we do. We're also more than happy to forward feedback players have to share regarding the Orochi.

I'd love to hear what others think of the Orochi since their rework. Is light spam a serious issue with the character or does it simply take time to adjust to the changes made to them?

I am arround rep 100 on PS4, get a K/D (not KAD) ratio arround 2 with my kensei (main) and despite of his strong guard, i have big troubles dealing with Roch lights spam.. it is really really too fast for console... it is at least as horrible as Pk ones.

And i say this while playing Kensei, but playing an assassins... you can't do a thing if a Roch only spam lights you to death..

That's really a problem because more than to be a stupid gameplay.. Orochi now requires no skills at all.. this is probably the less skill Char of the roaster now.. that's not nice for Old Roch mains .

And that's Horrible as a new player, rep 25 for exemple can sometimes win against more experienced player just by spaming lights..

I believe this is not about time to adapt to.. it is just too fast. Really. And this is a non-sense compare to the rich mechanics of this game.. that's a waste of the gameplay possibility this game has..

DrinkinMyStella
06-15-2018, 10:07 AM
I played a rep 0 last night in a duel and he was using orochi and I got destroyed he didn't even do anything special, no zone attacks, no swift strike and no riptide he just used lights and I swear I can beat high rep players but literally the light spam was interrupting everything I did, I try and parry but my reaction on console can't see it quick enough. I block and wait till I think its safe to go but 1 light interrupts my whole chain. I hoped on with zerker and won easily but it just goes to show that his light spam to too quick.

Siegfried-Z
06-15-2018, 10:32 AM
Yep, that's the point.. there are no challenge and no pleasure to play Roch on Console right now

Erhanninja
06-15-2018, 11:41 AM
While I feel for you on some level please don't lump all of us console folks with yourself. Not all of us share your issues with "light spam" I certainly don't.
They're not detached. They've stated on more than one occasion that these changes are made for the overall health of the game. While it might sound smarter to appeal to the lesser skilled bigger casual portion of the game it completely guts the longevity of the game to do so. Because you're shortening the skill gap on a massive scale by having things being slower and easier to react to. If a person can master the game quickly and easily the person doesn't feel as accomplished as they could.

If you eat the first hit of a quick light chain and are a reflex hero switching to try and block the second one immediately screws you. Don't do that.
His rework didn't give him faster heavies afaik. So you must have always struggled against those. Nothing will be fixed because there is nothing to fix.
This is a player made issue not an actual game issue. You can either commit to trying to better yourself as a player through looking up guides, using training, and picking up the hero yourself to learn the feel of them. Or you can accept the game isn't for you anymore and move along.

The devs are not going to go back to the slower and more easily played game. This is something you're going to have to accept if you want to continue to play. Bashing them is not only not productive but is also uncalled for.

Okay I understand what you mean. But can you please tell me how this is for the health of the game? So making fast light attacks make the game better and more challenging? Then why all heroes donít have fast light attacks if itís like you said.

I thought maybe itís me. So I have rep 10 orochi I tried myself. I destroyed people. Yeah sure there are few guys who can block. But donít forget there are so many factors in place that determines that. Then I said okay maybe opponents arenít good. So I watched professional streamers. They have the same issue as well. Then it tells me there is an issue here.


I donít mind dying to good players. But all I see now light attack spam. No feint no technique no mind games nothing. Because it interrupts everything. I donít wanna have to play some hero with HA so I can manage. I donít think thatís right.

Iai8
06-15-2018, 11:49 AM
While not a massive issue on PC, I have little trouble beating most roaches, I have noticed that since the rework the stagger from being hit by a light from him will occasionally result in the next light being guaranteed. My guard will not be able to come up fast enough to block it, even if I premptively change to the correct guard. If the speed of his lights plus stagger and fluctuating latency can do that on PC, I imagine console must gave an even bigger issue with it.

DrinkinMyStella
06-15-2018, 11:53 AM
Okay I understand what you mean. But can you please tell me how this is for the health of the game? So making fast light attacks make the game better and more challenging? Then why all heroes don’t have fast light attacks if it’s like you said.

I thought maybe it’s me. So I have rep 10 orochi I tried myself. I destroyed people. Yeah sure there are few guys who can block. But don’t forget there are so many factors in place that determines that. Then I said okay maybe opponents aren’t good. So I watched professional streamers. They have the same issue as well. Then it tells me there is an issue here.


I don’t mind dying to good players. But all I see now light attack spam. No feint no technique no mind games nothing. Because it interrupts everything. I don’t wanna have to play some hero with HA so I can manage. I don’t think that’s right.

exactly, I don't see much skill in the game its just people spamming light attacks. before orochi rework you would have to think before attacking and use feints and time dodges etc but now its just lights non stop, aramusha now he takes more skill yes still veery quick but you cant just spam lights because they area little more reactable a good musha will feints heavies into lights, zerker use to be the feint god he still is but people don't use his feint game just spam attacks using his HA and unblockables whereas with my zerker I will use feints a lot the way he was suppose to be used. It seems less about skill now and more about button smashing. Its not every hero, I respect a good warden, LB, Nobu, WL, shug I even respect a good cent but ive lost respect for these heroes which use to take skill to use but now anyone can be good with.

Knight_Raime
06-15-2018, 05:02 PM
Okay I understand what you mean. But can you please tell me how this is for the health of the game? So making fast light attacks make the game better and more challenging? Then why all heroes don’t have fast light attacks if it’s like you said.

I thought maybe it’s me. So I have rep 10 orochi I tried myself. I destroyed people. Yeah sure there are few guys who can block. But don’t forget there are so many factors in place that determines that. Then I said okay maybe opponents aren’t good. So I watched professional streamers. They have the same issue as well. Then it tells me there is an issue here.


I don’t mind dying to good players. But all I see now light attack spam. No feint no technique no mind games nothing. Because it interrupts everything. I don’t wanna have to play some hero with HA so I can manage. I don’t think that’s right.

I mean if you pay attention to most of the reworks they've all gotten faster attacks. Eventually every hero is going to be getting 500ms lights from neutral. Warden's rework isn't even been advertized openly by the devs and we already can see he got his side lights made to 500ms. As for the health of the game goes it's because faster attacks mean tighter timings which means better reflexes. as an example 400ms attacks have been brought to the game on a few heros. Because they're not reactable. They have to be dealt with on prediction. Majority of fighters out there have a mix of reactionary and prediction defense. For honor has been and still is far more reaction based than other fighters. But they're adding a bit more prediction with 400ms attacks and great mix ups.

The idea is to make defense harder. Because this makes the pacing of combat flow better. And it means the skill gap gets bigger. meaning players actually feel like they get better at the game and there still is more for them to learn/practice. I hate to say it but if you switching to orochi instantly nets you tons of wins you're not fighting good players. I really would like to know who you are calling a proffessional streamer. Because a majority of the people who play this game even those who make content often are not considered top tier players. If you want to know recognized top tier players try to find videos of Baradice and Skorabrand. Both are consistent tourney winners and know this game better than even the devs in some regards. (hence why the devs frequently fly players out to them.)

But assuming you're watching an orochi beat an actual good player it's not "light spam" they're doing. They're delaying their in combo lights to make them unreactable. You can't get that speed through spamming. Because spamming buffers attacks. And buffered attacks are slower than they should be. If you're dying to light spam then they're not good players. Let me lay out the situation here.

Either A) it's not actually light spam and you're misusing the term (wether or not you're misusing it on purpose is neither here nor there) or B) you are actually dying to light spam. And you seem to believe it actually works at higher levels against good players simply because you fail to deal with it yourself. Meaning your awareness on where you sit skill tier wise is unknown to you.

I want to make it clear that i'm not saying light spam doesn't it exist and that it doesn't kill people. I understand it does. What i'm trying to say/have been saying since things started getting faster is that "spam" doesn't work against good players. And people seem to either misunderstand what spam actually means or they just can't accept the fact i'm stating.

Okita_Soji..
06-15-2018, 05:36 PM
My issue is they changed the character of Orochi. He was a counter attacker. I'm a rep 33 Orochi and liked his old kit and yes somethings needed to be improved. Would have been happy if they just made riptide cancelable or controllable when I release it.

Now Orochi is an attacker first, counter second. It is far too easy to hit light combos then waiting for deflects or Zephyr. Sure I had to rely on top lights and zone but I at least had to work for hits. Faint side or top then hit the double. Quick zone fade back. Get a wiff and riptide. It was alot more in and out waiting and striking. Unfortunately now it's an in your face attack attack attack. As most people can't handle it so it's too easy to do.

Knight_Raime
06-15-2018, 05:43 PM
My issue is they changed the character of Orochi. He was a counter attacker. I'm a rep 33 Orochi and liked his old kit and yes somethings needed to be improved. Would have been happy if they just made riptide cancelable or controllable when I release it.

Now Orochi is an attacker first, counter second. It is far too easy to hit light combos then waiting for deflects or Zephyr. Sure I had to rely on top lights and zone but I at least had to work for hits. Faint side or top then hit the double. Quick zone fade back. Get a wiff and riptide. It was alot more in and out waiting and striking. Unfortunately now it's an in your face attack attack attack. As most people can't handle it so it's too easy to do.

I don't have that situation. My follow up lights are always blocked unless I manage to delay them. If I manage to land Storm rush most of the time the follow up light is blocked. If I use riptide to whiff punish someone the light follow up is always blocked unless I delay it. I actually have to deflect with Orochi more now than I used to.

I still see him as a counter attacker. Storm rush's counter attack usage went down some due to some small changes. Now I can only use it to whiff punish on finishers. (but this is just me we're talking about.) his riptide got a LOT better with whiff punishing. He can whiff punish things he used to not be able to. Like warlords headbutt/zone. Double top light is still a very consistent whiff punish tool. And you can now threaten a heavy with it or throw a delayed light.

He went from 1 counter hit and going to neutral to a counter hit with some follow up potential and then back to neutral.

PepsiBeastin
06-15-2018, 05:53 PM
I like how everyone is fine with super quick lights on peacekeeper and berserker, but they suddenly have a problem with it on orochi. I'm not defending it in any shape or form, I don't think any character should have such quick spammable attacks, I just find it very hypocritical.

Okita_Soji..
06-15-2018, 05:58 PM
I agree riptide is easier to land, miss it being a heavy. Nothing better than landing it and getting an execution. I feel it is just far to easy to hit light button and beat out an attack and when that lands I can hit 1-2 more. It me that's not countering it's just a faster attack. Throw in feats Kiai and it's light attack city.

I like your idea about removing parry for assassins and making deflect more viable, btw.

Siegfried-Z
06-15-2018, 08:40 PM
Knight i don't know from which plateform you are but on console it is too fast.
And i don't agree with you in the way you talk like if speed up a triple lights combo is a good thing.
Sorry but others way could have been possible for increasing offensiv game.
By doing this, they just put the game less skill.
And please delaying lights... that's not skills..thats just a timing changes.. any good Valk have to do this for a while now ..

If you want names.. the streamer Kenzo made a vid about Roch lights.. saying he now understand it is really too fast on console.

And Pepsi.. please everyone already complain a thousands times about pk lights etc .. and shinobi lights Btw ;) so nothing about hypocrite

Knight_Raime
06-15-2018, 09:33 PM
Knight i don't know from which plateform you are but on console it is too fast.
And i don't agree with you in the way you talk like if speed up a triple lights combo is a good thing.
Sorry but others way could have been possible for increasing offensiv game.
By doing this, they just put the game less skill.
And please delaying lights... that's not skills..thats just a timing changes.. any good Valk have to do this for a while now ..

If you want names.. the streamer Kenzo made a vid about Roch lights.. saying he now understand it is really too fast on console.

And Pepsi.. please everyone already complain a thousands times about pk lights etc .. and shinobi lights Btw ;) so nothing about hypocrite

You can be sorry all you want. Doesn't make you more correct. You just don't grasp fighters at a meta level. Which is evident from your response.
I'm on console. Have been since launch. Specifically xbox one. I handle it just fine. But if you're going to blame your platform over your own reflexes there really isn't anything more to discuss.

PanzerShrekonin
06-15-2018, 11:19 PM
Light attack spam meta is getting worse and worse with every update. Orochi is now a PK without bleeds.


It's literally what makes this game horrible for me cause I dont play these super fast light attack characters.

So im always at a disadvantage.

Armosias
06-15-2018, 11:41 PM
When I read some posts here it's like light spam was not built in Orochi before rework.. I mean he had only top light and zone to deal damages, and the top light combo was dealing a heavy worth of damages on something like 600ms.
And no one here is complaining about Conq's 500 ms infinite lights which is strange because he is freely light spamming since his rework..

PanzerShrekonin
06-15-2018, 11:49 PM
When I read some posts here it's like light spam was not built in Orochi before rework.. I mean he had only top light and zone to deal damages, and the top light combo was dealing a heavy worth of damages on something like 600ms.
And no one here is complaining about Conq's 500 ms infinite lights which is strange because he is freely light spamming since his rework..

cause they hit like wet noodles... They do barely any damage at all.

get it... cause the flail is like a noodle? xD

Siegfried-Z
06-16-2018, 12:16 AM
You can be sorry all you want. Doesn't make you more correct. You just don't grasp fighters at a meta level. Which is evident from your response.
I'm on console. Have been since launch. Specifically xbox one. I handle it just fine. But if you're going to blame your platform over your own reflexes there really isn't anything more to discuss.

Man.. please dont make yourself looks ridiculous.
I didn't say anything against you as a player i say Things about the spam lights topic.

So, you dont know anything about me and you're totally wrong as i am rep 100 and there since the first day of this game .

And my reflex are good as i parry a lot of lights in the game .. but these one are just a stupide things. . And some guys there says why complaining there were some fast lights before but that's si stupid to think this as what almost everyone already complain about pk or Conq lights we have To appreciate another lights spamer in the game ?
If so many ppl react to this thats not for nothing..

So stop beeing a kid and start to think before talking pls.

Just look at this vid of spliced .. he is good And on PC .. whatever look how the lights of the roch are unfair while hť is playing assassin arround the 4th duel. . And after come back and dare still saying they are fine.

https://youtu.be/PILb70Smu30

UbiJurassic
06-16-2018, 01:00 AM
Thanks for sharing all your feedback so far everyone. I'm making a note of the comments shared in this thread and will ensure it's brought to the team. :)

Nose1234F
06-16-2018, 07:54 AM
A good sign to know someone is OP is the fact that half the playerbase is using it. I know I'm exaggerating, but I feel 1 out of 3 or at least 1 out of 4 players I encounter are using Orochi, and as a Lawbringer my guard doesn't switch fast enough.

Knight_Raime
06-16-2018, 08:11 AM
Man.. please dont make yourself looks ridiculous.
I didn't say anything against you as a player i say Things about the spam lights topic.

So, you dont know anything about me and you're totally wrong as i am rep 100 and there since the first day of this game .

And my reflex are good as i parry a lot of lights in the game .. but these one are just a stupide things. . And some guys there says why complaining there were some fast lights before but that's si stupid to think this as what almost everyone already complain about pk or Conq lights we have To appreciate another lights spamer in the game ?
If so many ppl react to this thats not for nothing..

So stop beeing a kid and start to think before talking pls.

Just look at this vid of spliced .. he is good And on PC .. whatever look how the lights of the roch are unfair while hť is playing assassin arround the 4th duel. . And after come back and dare still saying they are fine.

https://youtu.be/PILb70Smu30

Rep means nothing.
I know your reflexes are not up to snuff if you die to orochi light spam.
Spliced is not a good player and is the butt of a joke in the competitive community. Try again.

Siegfried-Z
06-16-2018, 09:27 AM
Rep means nothing.
I know your reflexes are not up to snuff if you die to orochi light spam.
Spliced is not a good player and is the butt of a joke in the competitive community. Try again.

1/ you say rep mean nothing but said before if i cant deal with roch lights for sure i am not playing since the all begenning : You disagree with yourself there

2/ Did i say i am a free kill for a roch lights spammer ? No. I say it is too fast and makes things difficult without any skills requires and that i have troubles at parrying it. : You judge too fast and then just say a nonsense things and attack me as a payer before trying To think smartly.

3/ it was my intention To pick up spliced To see your rťaction . Yes he is not one of the best, even a joke for the community if you say so even if it is so not nice from you as always.
But the point is he is "kind of good", i a lot of player at high level are at his level and many many players are far weaker than him.. you are one of them i gess btw !

And then what is important To see here je lot if the top 0,1% can deal with roch lights but if the average player can .. And no, they cant and this vid proove it : so you get trap by your own reaction at writing before thinking .

-> GAME OVER

ChampionRuby50g
06-16-2018, 09:28 AM
Rep means nothing.
I know your reflexes are not up to snuff if you die to orochi light spam.
Spliced is not a good player and is the butt of a joke in the competitive community. Try again.

Spliced is basically a walking meme lol. Heís a nice dude and all, but canít really take him seriously and stopped watching him long ago.

In regards to the light spam from Orochi, I only have trouble dealing with it when I play reflex guard heroes. At times I feel overwhelmed, but thatís either due to poor connection, or my own inability to block properly. I just wish he didnít have that kai feat, and it wasnít so easily accessed. What I do hate though, is how one diminsional orochi now is. Every orochi player I have come across only uses light attacks now. It makes for an incredibly boring fight.

Knight_Raime
06-16-2018, 05:54 PM
1/ you say rep mean nothing but said before if i cant deal with roch lights for sure i am not playing since the all begenning : You disagree with yourself there

2/ Did i say i am a free kill for a roch lights spammer ? No. I say it is too fast and makes things difficult without any skills requires and that i have troubles at parrying it. : You judge too fast and then just say a nonsense things and attack me as a payer before trying To think smartly.

3/ it was my intention To pick up spliced To see your rťaction . Yes he is not one of the best, even a joke for the community if you say so even if it is so not nice from you as always.
But the point is he is "kind of good", i a lot of player at high level are at his level and many many players are far weaker than him.. you are one of them i gess btw !

And then what is important To see here je lot if the top 0,1% can deal with roch lights but if the average player can .. And no, they cant and this vid proove it : so you get trap by your own reaction at writing before thinking .

-> GAME OVER


I don't understand your first point. But to elaborate on my rep claim I regularly fight people who are higher than me rep wise. And I still win a good amount of my matches. Rep just indicates how long you've been playing. And even then that's not entirely accurate because private match time isn't recorded anywhere. and completing all of the orders daily puts you far above someone who only plays duel. It's inaccurate to say rep is entirely meaningless. But it deff doesn't indicate a person's skill to any accurate degree.

Light spamming on any hero doesn't require "skill." But spamming lights buffers attacks. Making them slower. Rochi's 3 hit light combo is supposed to be 500ms>400ms>400ms. With lag comp you add 33ms to all 3 attacks. Which makes them 533ms>433ms>433ms. And then if it's spammed that means it's buffered. Meaning it more looks like 533ms>467ms>467ms. What i'm getting at is that if you're dying to spam that's a you issue and not a game issue.

He might be better than me overall. That doesn't mean he can't struggle against certain things. It's true that top players can't deal with a properly played orochi in combo light. Because those lights are delayed to be at their proper speed of around 367ms. Which for all intents and purposes is unreactable. But that's sort of the point for 400ms lights. Now. If you wanted to argue with my about 400ms true lights and their place in the game I can be down with that. But you're trying to sell me on how effective orochi light spam is. Which is why you're getting a harsh response.


Spliced is basically a walking meme lol. He’s a nice dude and all, but can’t really take him seriously and stopped watching him long ago.

In regards to the light spam from Orochi, I only have trouble dealing with it when I play reflex guard heroes. At times I feel overwhelmed, but that’s either due to poor connection, or my own inability to block properly. I just wish he didn’t have that kai feat, and it wasn’t so easily accessed. What I do hate though, is how one diminsional orochi now is. Every orochi player I have come across only uses light attacks now. It makes for an incredibly boring fight.

I lost respect for him when I found out he tried to claim rewards for hitting max rep with a hero and the newest LB execution as his own doing for them coming into the game.
I don't fight rochi's like that thankfully. The rochi's I fight make plenty use of feints and SR/riptide. some even deflect.

ChampionRuby50g
06-17-2018, 12:16 AM
I lost respect for him when I found out he tried to claim rewards for hitting max rep with a hero and the newest LB execution as his own doing for them coming into the game.
I don't fight rochi's like that thankfully. The rochi's I fight make plenty use of feints and SR/riptide. some even deflect.

That is so true. When I watched that video I was just shaking my head. Heís a content creator in terms of making videos of the game, not a game content creator. He held himself in too high esteem, and him saying ďI told them to add in a LB decap and Rep 50 outfits and they didí! It was all me who got this going, but they didnít listen to me completely and made this a battle outfit!Ē Never mind the hundreds of post on this forum that called for those things too, long before he would have.

Most of the orochi I see uses Kiai feat to interrupt and instantly throw out lights or try to GB.

Lord_Cherubi
06-17-2018, 03:03 AM
That is so true. When I watched that video I was just shaking my head. Heís a content creator in terms of making videos of the game, not a game content creator. He held himself in too high esteem, and him saying ďI told them to add in a LB decap and Rep 50 outfits and they didí! It was all me who got this going, but they didnít listen to me completely and made this a battle outfit!Ē Never mind the hundreds of post on this forum that called for those things too, long before he would have.

Most of the orochi I see uses Kiai feat to interrupt and instantly throw out lights or try to GB.

I don't mind Kiai as a feat itself but it shouldn't be available as a first one and the cooldown on it is patchetic. Just fix those two things and he would have to think about when to use it more. It's great for escaping from a tough situation but if you can spam it like there's no tomorrow it's pretty lame.

Armosias
06-17-2018, 10:34 AM
Simple question guys what would you prefer as nerf for Orochi's lights:
- Longer delay between lights
- Lower staggering

Both options should allow any hero to recover their guard in time for a block, cet the second would keep the speed and difficulty in parrying those lights

ToeSlurpChuck
08-20-2018, 11:17 PM
Thanks dThe fight balance team has been keeping an eye on how the Orochi has been performing since the introduction of the rework. While there aren't any balance changes coming at this time to the hero, we will certainly let players know if we do. We're also more than happy to forward feedback players have to share regarding the Orochi.

I'd love to hear what others think of the Orochi since their rework. Is light spam a serious issue with the character or does it simply take time to adjust to the changes made to them?

The orochi rework was for the most part well done by there is one big issue with it. I play on console and while Iím by no means the best orochi in the world, I am overall rep 28 and rep 18 atm with him and before the rework I had to actually try to get kills and now that thereís a new light spam chain every single game that Iím in with a rep 1 orochi I get hit by nothing but lights the entire time and die. The way the reflex guard is as well as compensating for my latency and theirs plus the fact theyíre 200 ms each and can come from any direction makes it a pure guessing game. Iím not even just being salty I went and tested it in a game with my friend who got it and has been playing for a day and told him to do nothing but spam lights and he won every single time. Keep in mind he has one day of experience and Iím rep 18 with the same character. I told him to spam lights online and he instantly started winning twice as many fights. Hopefully that sends out some kind of red flags because this kind of skill gap that can be closed so easily is way too much of a change. The lights donít have to be made slower but should at last come from a set direction like aramusha or make it so you donít have to refresh your guard for every attack on a reflex guard hero. This issue is amplified the quicker the reflex guard goes away so gladiator and shinobi (both characters I play) are at an extreme disadvantage. Blocking these attacks with one of those characters is barely possible. Overall the most infuriating thing about it is that someone who has no idea what their doing can be so successful against other players that have put so much more time and effort into the game. If that isnít enough to convince you of the evident issue Iíve had people admit to me that they purposefully use orochi purely for light spams to make people mad. When a character has something like this that is intentionally used because of how easy it is to get kills and make other people mad itís time to change something about it. I hope a dev could see this and at least consider bringing it up at the next meeting

DefiledDragon
08-20-2018, 11:34 PM
The orochi rework was for the most part well done by there is one big issue with it. I play on console and while I’m by no means the best orochi in the world, I am overall rep 28 and rep 18 atm with him and before the rework I had to actually try to get kills and now that there’s a new light spam chain every single game that I’m in with a rep 1 orochi I get hit by nothing but lights the entire time and die. The way the reflex guard is as well as compensating for my latency and theirs plus the fact they’re 200 ms each and can come from any direction makes it a pure guessing game. I’m not even just being salty I went and tested it in a game with my friend who got it and has been playing for a day and told him to do nothing but spam lights and he won every single time. Keep in mind he has one day of experience and I’m rep 18 with the same character. I told him to spam lights online and he instantly started winning twice as many fights. Hopefully that sends out some kind of red flags because this kind of skill gap that can be closed so easily is way too much of a change. The lights don’t have to be made slower but should at last come from a set direction like aramusha or make it so you don’t have to refresh your guard for every attack on a reflex guard hero. This issue is amplified the quicker the reflex guard goes away so gladiator and shinobi (both characters I play) are at an extreme disadvantage. Blocking these attacks with one of those characters is barely possible. Overall the most infuriating thing about it is that someone who has no idea what their doing can be so successful against other players that have put so much more time and effort into the game. If that isn’t enough to convince you of the evident issue I’ve had people admit to me that they purposefully use orochi purely for light spams to make people mad. When a character has something like this that is intentionally used because of how easy it is to get kills and make other people mad it’s time to change something about it. I hope a dev could see this and at least consider bringing it up at the next meeting

They're 400ms each and afaik that only applies to combo'd lights. Startup lights I believe are 500ms, although I'm sure somebody will be along to correct me on that.

AmonDarkGod
03-29-2019, 02:58 PM
90 percent of all Orochis only light spam...

FlyinBeef
03-29-2019, 03:09 PM
90 percent of all orochis only light spam...
loool !!! Shock !!! Sensation !!!
100% players using viable kit of their hero, wow!!!

Goat_of_Vermund
03-29-2019, 04:03 PM
To be honest, that and turtling all he has, the stormrush is rather weak in some matchups, and the heavies only work if you go for a light parry.

Sweaty_Sock
03-30-2019, 12:36 AM
The compromise is to make his second strike like his guaranteed top (including it doing 7 damage) & buff the heavy finisher with UB or some other incentive

Also add the old heavy riptide in as well (give him both!)