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DaelosTheCat
06-14-2018, 09:03 PM
Dear Ubisoft!

First of all, thank you for Assassin's Creed Origins. While many players complained about the direction the series is taking with this game, I welcomed it with open arms. Truly, it was an awesome game and were you to pay more attention to my posts, suggestions and laments, it'd be even a nearly perfect one. Now that any chance of that has vanished, I urge you to heed my suggestions to avoid some of the mistakes you've made in your next game. Behold! My extensive list of DOs and DON'Ts for Assassin's Creed Odyssey.

[Gameplay]
In this new gameplay direction the series is taking you seem to focus on 2 gameplay / role styles: warrior and archer (let's be honest, tools are support skills only). This is all that your setting allows and that's not bad. One can either face their enemies head on or be sneaky. That's good too. Although when I played Origins, I felt that the game leans towards combat too much. One needs to be able to play the whole game in the playstyle of their choice. If a player wants to be sneaky all the way, that means it's up to you to tweak the gameplay in such a way that allows to take down bosses and other enemies in a sneaky fashion and not force a player's hand into fighting if they don't want it. I believe the game is too late into the development and not much can be changed or added. But what you can (and should) definitely have are smoke bombs that allow not only to escape, but to incapacitate enemies from afar and assassinate them while they're disoriented. Too often in Origins I felt like there is no good sneaky approach to a situation and an addition like this would have helped much.

Now let's talk about loot. In Origins it was way to easy to get EPIC LEGENDARY gear. When EPIC LEGENDARY gear is everywhere - it is no longer special. There's no excitement in finding an EPIC LEGENDARY item if it happens all the time. So I suggest decreasing the chance of getting legendary gear. And hey, this can even let you earn more moneys from people who would buy such gear in game store.

Also, the eagle. While it's an AWESOME mechanic that I enjoy thoroughly, you are overusing it. Even when I don't swap to Senu and find my quest target on my own, an eagle sound plays as if it was my bird who found it - that's how heavily you expect players to rely on this mechanic. Again, it's an awesome mechanic for finding stuff, but down in the UI section there's a suggestion for a better alternative (not a replacement - just an alternative). Allow players to think sometimes and not just use the bird to find their way around.

[UI]
Judging from one post from your moderator over in Origins section, the dev team doesn't really understand that not all gamers play the way the devs do. It is important to make the game enjoyable even for players who play in a different way. A good example of this would be HUD tweaks and UI visual cues. I can't stress this enough, but not all gamers play with HUD. For some of us any HUD elements are distracting and counter-immersive. And yet, even those players need to be able to be informed about things around them. Not everything needs to be floating markers and indicators - you can use colors and visual effects (and make them toggleable) to point players towards their quest targets. Or better yet, go old style and let journal have descriptions of how to get to where they need to go so they can play without quest indicators/markers completely. Sure, it's more work. But for many it is way more satisfying to find their way rather than to be told where to go by a magical floating marker.

For those of us who do prefer to play with HUD on (which is cool too), please do make all quest indicators visible on compass / eagle / map simultaneously. It is really inconvenient to have to switch active quests around just to see which direction each of them needs players to go.

Next. In Origins selling items is a pain. You play for hours, pick up tons of stuff and then have to manually sell all of it to vendor. It'd be best to add a button for "Sell All Unequipped Weapons / Armors".

Lastly, location text. This will not be important for all, but is a good example of what you could do to accomodate players with different preferences. In Origins one can completely disable the map via ACP (thank you for that by the way). I decided to go for it as not having a map makes me want to memorize my surroundings and locations. So this is nice. But this effectively prevents me from being able to find hidden treasures as there is no way to know what nome or location I am in. So take this into account and maybe add an optional location text appearing in the corner of the screen as the hero enters a location? Just a thought.

[Controls]
I have spoken about this extensively over in Origins forum. On PC you can't adjust walk / run speeds. This effectively prevents players from seeing animations / accesing functionality that is already in game. It'd be best if you could make movement speed adjustable with mouse wheel similar to first Splinter Cell games. In Origins the two available movement speeds for PC players are sprinting as if bitten by a crocodile and walking very-very slowly. Running around like crazy is very counter-immersive. On the other hand walking is just so slow, it takes ages to get anywhere (even more so in interiors where walking speed is even lower). So please, can we walk faster? Or run slower? Adjustable movement speed needs to be added for immersion. This wasn't such a problem for previous games as they were much more vertical. To get around, you'd climb a building and head towards your destination jumping from rooftop to rooftop. Since the new games are less vertical and you travel more on the streets among commoners, sprinting around feels very out of place. Third person RPGs need to have a movement speed that is in between sprinting and walking. Take a look at this short clip and you will understand how not being able to dynamically adjust movement speed completely breaks immersion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRf_F0ZFz70&t

Look at The Witcher 3, which I am sure ACO drew many inspirations from. It has walking, jogging and sprinting. When character's default movement speed is sprinting, it really makes him stand out from the crowd, which is very counter-immersive. For a good understanding of what immersion is and why it's important, I recommend watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZUynhkal1I. Anyway, even with my limited knowledge of coding, I am more than sure that such a feature would be rather easy to implement. You can even make it optional to make all the players happy with the controls.

Another thing about animations is how suspiciously Bayek acts around guards in towns. Just look at this short clip. You're trying to walk past the guards minding your own business, but suddenly start sneaking without player's input! If I were one of these guards, I'd arrest the hero just for this kind of behaviour. So this needs to be addressed as well.


https://youtu.be/S7j4aRqqLqA

[Combat]
I've seen in the game trailer how the hero can grab an enemy's shield and throw it away. This looks horrible. Shields are made tough and heavy to withstand blows. Nobody can throw them that far. Also, nobody can perform THIS IS SPARTAAAAA kicks that push enemies away so far. These mechanics look out of place and too fantasy. Tone them down.

Please add more non-lethal options. Again, if you want to be an RPG, that's great, but you need to allow players to decide if they want to slaughter an outpost, or merely knock the guards down. Sure there was a non-lethal knockout in Origins, but it only worked up close. Distant non-lethal options (like tranq darts from Origins, but with longer range and duration) would be a good idea.

[Graphics]
In Origins you were awesome enough to include pitch black interiors. That was awesome and made torches useful. However, some interiors that had no light sources seemed to have ambient lighting, which wasn't good. So I suggest removing ambient lighting in interiors that should be dark. Dark is good.

Same applies for night time. Why do all the developers tend to make nights as bright as days? Have you ever seen such nights in real world? No. So why not add immersive dark nights? This could even lead to more gameplay tactics for sneaky players if you also reduce how far enemies can see at night. So it's a win-win. Someone needs to break this stupid trend of bright nights.

[World]
In most games it's nice to know your actions have an impact. In AC, one may say, we play through story thus impacting the world. But how much more awesome it would be if there were more ways to observe how the world has changed due to our impact. Origins had these enemy camps, which were fun to clear out. But they were immediately getting repopulated. My suggestion is (if there are camps like that in Odyssey) - let cleared out camps stay cleared out, unless they are needed for quest purposes. Let players enjoy seeing those desolated camps knowing it was us who cleared them out.

[NPCs]
Most NPCs talk to the hero as he walks by. But why? This is not how people work. People normally ignore strangers. So keep background greetings and chatter to minimum. It serves no purpose and can be quite distracting and annoying.

Voices. I guess this part of the development should be behind you at this point. But still, let me just say that in Origins, the voicing was horrible. Only the protaginist and some key NPCs was voiced perfectly. All the side quest NPC actors tried to create and "accent" and failed spectacularly. In this regard Origin is similar to Skyrim in that actors try to record their lines with some sort of accent only making everything worse. So drop it. Pretend accent sounds fake.

Also, please try to clean up NPC behaviour so they don't just wave their arms around for no reason as shown in this clip.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zkTMNHfwfQ&feature=youtu.be

So there you go, my list of suggestions. In exchange you can send me a copy of Odyssey or include me in game credits, but I will settle for just having you make a game with those suggestions in mind so it's as awesome as it can be.

Frag_Maniac
06-14-2018, 09:45 PM
Gameplay

I think you are totally missing that a true RPG is about WAY more than just being able to play stealthy all the way through. I mean most true RPGs you can model your body, face, race. You can pick between anywhere from 3 to several class types. Your choices in game often determine whom are your friends or foes. I mean hell, it's clear even with dialog choices and claimed varied outcomes, this is just window dressing RPG stuff. Even Dying Light 2 seems to have more RPG fleshing in how your choices affect NPCs.

UI

I don't recall anyone giving out detailed info yet on exactly how HUD element toggling will be handled.

Controls

KB/M users have been requesting varied walk/run speed via mouse wheel for some time. Ubi are mostly a for the console crowd team anymore, and since use of gamepads in PC games has been prevalent for some time, they seem to feel that is the way to solve it. They really don't give a damn about KB/M users.

Combat

On this I agree, and noticed it right away. He's ripping off shields and flicking them like they're a Frisbee, and kicking even big enemies like they're footballs. It would be better I think to have a short grapple animation, then he'd slowly (to demonstrate the strength and struggle it takes) grab the shield, then maybe bash/stun them with it and drop it. The kick should only be possible to enemies whom don't have their shield up, or from behind after dodge rolling, but at best it should only make normal size enemies fall like 6 feet back, and bigger ones just knock away a few feet and stun, but not knock down.

Graphics

Are you sure all those interiors you said had no light source didn't have a hole in the roof, or gaps in the rocks and stones of caves and pyramids? I looked up a lot inside buildings and caves and tombs and quite often if there was a light source it was the moonlight beaning through such an opening..I thought they got Origins lighting spot on. I enjoyed lighting all the torches and cauldrons inside tombs. I also feel you can go too dark with the night sky in such a game. Reason being the torch only works in pitch black interior spaces, and they went with Senu for enhanced vision, which I prefer to Eagle vision of past games, which is a type of night vision that's out of place in an old world game. Darker night skies would mean making stealth night attacks or ANY night attacks too difficult. I was OK with it just being a semi dark twilight.

NPCs

Totally disagree, many recognize Bayek as a friend, known warrior, or fellow Egyptian, As you progress through the game, he becomes more well known. Apparently you haven't lived in any friendly areas where even complete strangers will greet you, especially if you are the same race as them. It also makes the game world feel more alive and interactive.

DaelosTheCat
06-14-2018, 10:39 PM
Gameplay

I think you are totally missing that a true RPG is about WAY more than just being able to play stealthy all the way through. I mean most true RPGs you can model your body, face, race. You can pick between anywhere from 3 to several class types. Your choices in game often determine whom are your friends or foes. I mean hell, it's clear even with dialog choices and claimed varied outcomes, this is just window dressing RPG stuff. Even Dying Light 2 seems to have more RPG fleshing in how your choices affect NPCs.


That is not an essential part of RPG. Look at The Witcher series - awesome RPGs with a preset character. I mean, sure, your typical D&D RPG needs to have extensive character creation. But seeing how AC is mostly an action series that is trying to merge with RPG mechanics, I can do without that as long as it supports any chosen playstyle and doesn't lean towards one or the other.

Frag_Maniac
06-14-2018, 11:39 PM
That is not an essential part of RPG. Look at The Witcher series - awesome RPGs with a preset character. I mean, sure, your typical D&D RPG needs to have extensive character creation. But seeing how AC is mostly an action series that is trying to merge with RPG mechanics, I can do without that as long as it supports any chosen playstyle and doesn't lean towards one or the other.

Despite your point being lessened by the fact that Witcher 3 has all those elements I mentioned, you're missing my point. I'm saying whether you can play through with all stealth or not is not really an RPG feature so much as a combat option.

DaelosTheCat
06-15-2018, 12:40 AM
Despite your point being lessened by the fact that Witcher 3 has all those elements I mentioned, you're missing my point. I'm saying whether you can play through with all stealth or not is not really an RPG feature so much as a combat option.

Playing a role can be defined differently. Sure, in a classic RPG playing a role means to be able to decide how to act, whether to be good, evil, cynical, virtuous, etc. But again, seeing how AC is an action series with RPG elements, variety in combat and in how you approach quests is the most we're going to get. That's why I focus most on the things I've said. Of course there's more to RPGs than combat. Just not in AC.

Frag_Maniac
06-15-2018, 02:27 AM
And that had been fine had you not prefaced it with "RPG direction,....need to understand what an RPG is", only to acknowledge in the end they are NOT in fact going for a full on RPG. Do you not see the contradiction?

Psimage
06-15-2018, 02:48 AM
Congratulations Ubisoft on another Assassins Creed Game!

I still like the 3 stance and rock, paper, scissor approach to sword melee combat with extras described above. ie varying strength. I like the rest of the combat system as is.

With a gang setup you could have 4 main ones that control and attempt takeovers or get taken over. You could add tower defense bonuses to whole area in whole area owned until new takeover. A capture item or protect citizen random jobs including set missions to have replayability.

Every item in game a tradable and sellable unique item that the player community have equally distributed would be hard to do, but an approximate would work and maybe have the epic legendary items unique and limited to trade amongst online characters. But Still have the items craftable/findable with enough skill.

DaelosTheCat
06-15-2018, 03:08 AM
And that had been fine had you not prefaced it with "RPG direction,....need to understand what an RPG is", only to acknowledge in the end they are NOT in fact going for a full on RPG. Do you not see the contradiction?

Yeah, I see your point. Probably should have phrased it differently. Will edit it later.

ArchangelJ97
06-15-2018, 01:11 PM
Smoke bombs from afar... I am not sure if that is invented in 431 B.C.E., but there is an ability that does similar effects, though only at close ranges.

Too much legendary items, I can kind of agree with this one, like I've seen legendary items dropping from soldiers a few times... What??? It would be best if legendary items are earned through finishing high-level quests or targets, or just getting them from random chests within temples or some guarded forts. As well as crafting some by smiths, where you can buy them.

Nothing has been said about UI thus far, but there is an option in Origins where you can play with no HUD, and I guess that option will be in Odyssey as well. Do hope that we can have the option to just toggle on/off for every HUD element, so that it fits every player's play style.

I do agree that shields are being flung too far, but I am OK with what the Sparta Kick is doing. The in-game explanation is that all of these powers came from Leonida's Spear, which is a first civ artifact, and thus giving the protagonist seemingly super-human strength and abilities. I can go with that.

As for getting darker nights... Are you sure you can navigate your way without a torch? How is that even sneaky in any sense? Plus, humans eye adapts to darkness, and it makes the night looks brighter in some way, though the colors may tend to be more black-and-white. Guess they can put a small filter when it gets to night time, so that it's not too dark, but not too vibrant as well, just like how night time is in reality. Do remember that there's a moon and stars in the night sky, and with much less pollution in the ancient times, night sky is supposing brighter than how it is now in the modern times. Though I cannot be sure about this one.

On not repopulating camps... What are you going to do after you cleared everything out? There's no replayability if camps don't get repopulated. After all, in reality, if a military base is attacked, and if that base is of critical importance, soldiers will go and try to take back the base/camp with whatever means they have to use. In fact, repopulating camps with only soldiers but no captains is taking away the immersion. Merely because that is not what would happen in a logical sense. At least one captain is needed to receive and give orders to the soldiers, but that captain never existed after I cleared out the camp for the first time. Hope this can get improved in this game. Btw, you can see the changes you did to the world in Odyssey by knowing that you lowered the nation power.

Lastly on NPCs. for Bayek, since he is the last Medjay, and he's the guardian of the people, the civilians should indeed be friendly to you, and an occasional "hello" is not anything weird. However, I am not sure how will this be handled with Odyssey, and let's see what will become of it.

ProdiGurl
06-15-2018, 04:14 PM
One thing that was perfect from Origins was SENU ! Whatever you did, do that again.
Best Eagle Vision yet. :)

And bring back the Poison ! I had too much fun with that :)

kissybyc
06-15-2018, 04:31 PM
[Controls]
I have spoken about this extensively over in Origins forum. On PC you can't adjust walk / run speeds. This effectively prevents players from seeing animations / accesing functionality that is already in game. It'd be best if you could make movement speed adjustable with mouse wheel similar to first Splinter Cell games. In Origins the two available movement speeds for PC players are sprinting as if bitten by a crocodile and walking very-very slowly. Running around like crazy is very counter-immersive. On the other hand walking is just so slow, it takes ages to get anywhere (even more so in interiors where walking speed is even lower). So please, can we walk faster? Or run slower? Adjustable movement speed needs to be added for immersion. This wasn't such a problem for previous games as they were much more vertical. To get around, you'd climb a building and head towards your destination jumping from rooftop to rooftop. Since the new games are less vertical and you travel more on the streets among commoners, sprinting around feels very out of place.


Thank you! I have been wanting this feature for soooo long. The absence of this single feature has made me significantly less interested in Origins, because there is simply no way for me to feel actually immersed in the game. Please Ubisoft - you love your game world, we love to spend time in it, so please let us KB/M users be able to do so with reasonable speed.

kissybyc
06-15-2018, 04:40 PM
I will add one more request regarding animation/combat, one that I have also been asking for since the early days of Origins: please allow finishers to trigger on all enemy kills instead of on the last enemy only. It makes the combat way more aestheticaly pleasing and makes every kill visualy satisfying.

DaelosTheCat
06-15-2018, 05:46 PM
I will add one more request regarding animation/combat, one that I have also been asking for since the early days of Origins: please allow finishers to trigger on all enemy kills instead of on the last enemy only. It makes the combat way more aestheticaly pleasing and makes every kill visualy satisfying.

But what about other enemies? While your hero is performing a finisher, does this toggle god mode and he cannot be harmed? Or get killed while you're not in control of your character? Either way is no good.

MnemonicSyntax
06-15-2018, 06:58 PM
I will add one more request regarding animation/combat, one that I have also been asking for since the early days of Origins: please allow finishers to trigger on all enemy kills instead of on the last enemy only. It makes the combat way more aestheticaly pleasing and makes every kill visualy satisfying.

If this was optional, sure. I don't want that personally.

kissybyc
06-16-2018, 11:26 AM
But what about other enemies? While your hero is performing a finisher, does this toggle god mode and he cannot be harmed? Or get killed while you're not in control of your character? Either way is no good.

Entering a brief period of invincibility would be the answer, but as long as the animation is short enough, that wouldn't be a problem. I mean, you already have "god mode" toggled when performing the shield grab & toss ability (See 8:12 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uphuTVxiIaQ) and that wasn't so intrusive. I personally think more visually rewarding combat more than makes up for the brief invincible period. And yes, I certainly meant it as an option, not as mandatory.

DaelosTheCat
06-18-2018, 12:17 AM
Of all the suggestions I've mentioned, to me the most important one is the PC controls and walking speed. Being stuck with walking like a sloth made me suffer through Origins as opposed to enjoying it fully.

cawatrooper9
06-18-2018, 02:34 PM
Entering a brief period of invincibility would be the answer, but as long as the animation is short enough, that wouldn't be a problem.

A lot of the "Arkham-style" WB games do this, and it's not super noticeable.

Batman has a few finishers that are too long and make this pretty obvious, but in Shadow of War I almost never notice the invincibility period.

quanzaizai
06-18-2018, 05:14 PM
Combat
well there will be no shield this time but they should add a soft locking feature like in witcher 3. Many people don't know how to lock on in ACO and I see it very clunky. with softlock you always can face the enemy and walks backward when in a fight.
Second, holding light attack is not assigned into any action, they shouldn't leave it blank like that when there is too many cool thing can do with it. Also for the leap attack need to return. Again it is a stupid decision when they leave minor thing blank such as those above I mean they invest alot into the game, why don't they go all in but leave it unfinished like that.
In the future they should have weapon or abilities wheel, This is a perfect option for any games and it helps player dont have to go to the menu all the time and enhance our experience alot. this way also favor PC more when they just can assigned it into keys.
Control
I think in future AC they should bring back free jump and grab. I dont know why since AC 3 they completely remove free jump, now we have to parkour to jump. If there is a ledge above me I wan to jump and grab it, not trying to find a wall to climb.

DaelosTheCat
06-26-2018, 05:20 PM
You know what, I take my words about interior lighting back. As I am replaying Origins, I find it spot-on awesome.

joelsantos24
06-26-2018, 05:31 PM
That is not an essential part of RPG. Look at The Witcher series - awesome RPGs with a preset character. I mean, sure, your typical D&D RPG needs to have extensive character creation. But seeing how AC is mostly an action series that is trying to merge with RPG mechanics, I can do without that as long as it supports any chosen playstyle and doesn't lean towards one or the other.
Unity and Syndicate, were action games with RPG elements. These are the classic examples of action games being merged with RPG mechanics. Origins is more RPG than anything, in my opinion. Odyssey will be a full-fledged RPG. The bottom line is, AC is no longer an action series nor an action-RPG hybrid. AC evolved (or devolved, depending on where you stand in this regard) into a full RPG, for better and worse.

quanzaizai
06-26-2018, 06:45 PM
Unity and Syndicate, were action games with RPG elements. These are the classic examples of action games being merged with RPG mechanics. Origins is more RPG than anything, in my opinion. Odyssey will be a full-fledged RPG. The bottom line is, AC is no longer an action series nor an action-RPG hybrid. AC evolved (or devolved, depending on where you stand in this regard) into a full RPG, for better and worse.

I think they also gonna go RPG for the next game to finish the ancient triology then after that maybe something new? :confused:

joelsantos24
06-26-2018, 11:52 PM
I think they also gonna go RPG for the next game to finish the ancient triology then after that maybe something new? :confused:
I really don't know. As far as I'm concerned, I'd like the series to go back to a simple action game, but that's just me.

Krollenkasper
06-27-2018, 06:00 AM
NPCs]
Most NPCs talk to the hero as he walks by. But why? This is not how people work. People normally ignore strangers. So keep background greetings and chatter to minimum. It serves no purpose and can be quite distracting and annoying.


this is no minor issue, i was never annoyed that much in a game as in origins because of the random lines spoken mostly by one male voice.
even with more voice actors it would be annoying so you are right, the NPC chatter has to stop or at least there should be an audio option.
i hope more people will complain about this because i fear Odyssey will have the same issue.

AnimusLover
06-27-2018, 05:04 PM
Now let's talk about loot. In Origins it was way to easy to get EPIC LEGENDARY gear. When EPIC LEGENDARY gear is everywhere - it is no longer special. There's no excitement in finding an EPIC LEGENDARY item if it happens all the time. So I suggest decreasing the chance of getting legendary gear. And hey, this can even let you earn more moneys from people who would buy such gear in game store.

Also, the eagle. While it's an AWESOME mechanic that I enjoy thoroughly, you are overusing it. Even when I don't swap to Senu and find my quest target on my own, an eagle sound plays as if it was my bird who found it - that's how heavily you expect players to rely on this mechanic. Again, it's an awesome mechanic for finding stuff, but down in the UI section there's a suggestion for a better alternative (not a replacement - just an alternative). Allow players to think sometimes and not just use the bird to find their way around.

Agreed completely. Devs, I hope you're reading. It's a lazy mechanic designed to stop the player from using their own senses because a world where important details are discoverable simply through the player's own natural exploration takes more effort to create. Not to mention it's a copy and paste of the owl in Far Cry Primal, the drones in Watch Dogs 2 Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon Wildlands. The only time Senu was useful was when infiltrating the military bases and finding hidden entries. Marking enemies in itself became a fun little mini game but I don't want to use her to track or find targets. A trail of blood on the ground leading to a cave is often obvious enough. Also disabling the HUD in game renders all her ability upgrades useless, that's how overused she was.


[UI]
Judging from one post from your moderator over in Origins section, the dev team doesn't really understand that not all gamers play the way the devs do.

Please link, I don't see what you're referring to.


It is important to make the game enjoyable even for players who play in a different way. A good example of this would be HUD tweaks and UI visual cues. I can't stress this enough, but not all gamers play with HUD. For some of us any HUD elements are distracting and counter-immersive. And yet, even those players need to be able to be informed about things around them. Not everything needs to be floating markers and indicators - you can use colors and visual effects (and make them toggleable) to point players towards their quest targets. Or better yet, go old style and let journal have descriptions of how to get to where they need to go so they can play without quest indicators/markers completely. Sure, it's more work. But for many it is way more satisfying to find their way rather than to be told where to go by a magical floating marker.

This. I'm playing Origins with minimal HUD on new game plus (I gave up playing on 'disable all' because I got tired of having to pull up my map every 5 seconds to see if I was going in the right direction) and there is still too much unnecessary flagging. I don't need to be told a weapons vendor is nearby, I don't need be told I can buy your crappy, anti consumer loot boxes (Heka chests) or that I can avenge xxxImmersionBreakingOtherAssassinPlayers5387xxxx. If I want to do that I can pull up the world map and mark it. Stop harrassing the player. The only thing a HUDless user needs to be marked is what is intentonally tracked.


Next. In Origins selling items is a pain. You play for hours, pick up tons of stuff and then have to manually sell all of it to vendor. It'd be best to add a button for "Sell All Unequipped Weapons / Armors".

This is a terrible idea, sorry. Players equip and unequip weapons all the time. Just because a weapon is unequipped does not mean it's useless. With one mistake a player could end up losing their most valuable item and that would not be pretty.


Another thing about animations is how suspiciously Bayek acts around guards in towns. Just look at this short clip. You're trying to walk past the guards minding your own business, but suddenly start sneaking without player's input! If I were one of these guards, I'd arrest the hero just for this kind of behaviour. So this needs to be addressed as well.

Again, agree here. It's as if the big 'X' button (or 'Y' if you're on X Box) above the enemy AI's head saying 'assassinate' is not enough... We get it. We know we can fight them if we want to, you don't have to keep hounding the player about this every 5 seconds. These games are constantly pushing the player into combat and when it's not, it's provoking the AI. In Origins, for instance, guards will be riding horses and Bayek will be nowhere near the road but the enemy AI will still be heard shouting to the top of his computer generated lungs, "move! Get out of the way!. What's wrong with you?!" or Bayek will be several metres away from a miltary base and lookout is already shouting, "you, stop!"

It's the game, once again, begging the player to interact with its various systems: "they are the enemy AI! They can be killed! You can fight them!"

Guards will attack you even when you're fighting predatory animals that were attacking you first which make no sense. I keep using this example from the Witcher 3 but it's a good one: if the player is attacked by a group of bandits the AI is so smart that they can spot who started it and thus will attack the bandits ONLY. They will also not punish you for killing your attackers. In Assasin's Creed, however, guard AI acts as if the player has no right to defend themselves. Even if you don't swing your weapon at what's provoked you - because the game has detected that you're in combat mode - it automatically triggers the guards to start fighting the player. 9 games in and they have NEVER fixed this. Syndicate was the absolute worst for this. Horrible enemy AI.

It's exhausting being the centre of attention at all times when I just want to explore. It also means the game can't be trusted to be left without pausing, even if the protagonist is in the town areas because you know somehow he/she is going to end up in combat mode.


[Combat]
I've seen in the game trailer how the hero can grab an enemy's shield and throw it away. This looks horrible. Shields are made tough and heavy to withstand blows. Nobody can throw them that far. Also, nobody can perform THIS IS SPARTAAAAA kicks that push enemies away so far. These mechanics look out of place and too fantasy. Tone them down.

That's because this game heavily taps into Greek mythology. apparently Kassandra's ankles are "blessed by the Gods" or something. It's better explained here: https://youtu.be/DPxT6QvgJN4?t=1m33s



[World]
In most games it's nice to know your actions have an impact. In AC, one may say, we play through story thus impacting the world. But how much more awesome it would be if there were more ways to observe how the world has changed due to our impact. Origins had these enemy camps, which were fun to clear out. But they were immediately getting repopulated. My suggestion is (if there are camps like that in Odyssey) - let cleared out camps stay cleared out, unless they are needed for quest purposes. Let players enjoy seeing those desolated camps knowing it was us who cleared them out.

Agreed. They completely choke the environment with military bases and guarded treasures so it's not like there's a shortage of opportunities for players do them without repopulation. I would also add that if a camp is needed for quests purposes and the palyer has already cleared it out, make sure the quest item/target is there for the start so that the player doesn't have to come back and clear it out again. The player can then tell the quest giver that they've already retrieved the item or killed the target earlier. This is standard RPG quest design.


[NPCs]
Most NPCs talk to the hero as he walks by. But why? This is not how people work. People normally ignore strangers. So keep background greetings and chatter to minimum. It serves no purpose and can be quite distracting and annoying.

I'd agree for other instalments but not for Origins because in Bayek's case he is a medjay so he's known to the people. It makes sense that they'd greet him.


Voices. I guess this part of the development should be behind you at this point. But still, let me just say that in Origins, the voicing was horrible. Only the protaginist and some key NPCs was voiced perfectly. All the side quest NPC actors tried to create and "accent" and failed spectacularly. In this regard Origin is similar to Skyrim in that actors try to record their lines with some sort of accent only making everything worse. So drop it. Pretend accent sounds fake.

Disagree. I don't want to hear an American or English accent in Ancient Greece. I'd rather a voice actor makes a bad attempt at an accent than no attempt. Remember Unity where some of the guards were saying French names in west country English accents? Cringe. It also meant that Syndicate didn't feel as fresh because we already heard what a city populated wth British accents sounded like in the previous instalment.

AnimusLover
06-27-2018, 05:26 PM
Despite your point being lessened by the fact that Witcher 3 has all those elements I mentioned, you're missing my point. I'm saying whether you can play through with all stealth or not is not really an RPG feature so much as a combat option.

Um, what? Combat options are very much an RPG feature. That's the entire point of "builds". Have you not played Fallout?
If you want to play as a stealth melee build you put points into sneak, lockpicking and melee and get perks that help you stay undetected. Also, you'd keep some Stealth Boys on standby.
The world and AI then needs to be designed in such a way that it can accomodate stealth players.
Too many times in Origins, for instance, the player is ultimately forced into combat, and this is by design because the devs wanted to show off the new combat format.

MnemonicSyntax
06-27-2018, 05:32 PM
Um, what? Combat options are very much an RPG feature. That's the entire point of "builds". Have you not played Fallout?
If you want to play as a stealth melee build you put points into sneak, lockpicking and melee and get perks that help you stay undetected. Also, you'd keep some Stealth Boys on standby.
The world and AI then needs to be designed in such a way that it can accomodate stealth players.
Too many times in Origins, for instance, the player is ultimately forced into combat, and this is by design because the devs wanted to show off the new combat format.

Hahaha, this is a great example and reminds me of the guy who did a Fallout 4 character build with *only* Charisma and Luck maxed. It was.hilarious.

DaelosTheCat
06-27-2018, 07:53 PM
Please link, I don't see what you're referring to.

I am referring to this thread: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1816417-I-think-we-should-go-back-to-holding-a-button-to-sprint?highlight=running where players asked Ubi for more control over character's movement and the moderator replied with
The team wanted you to only have to hold one button or only push your analog stick forward to go full speed rather than use two inputs. So I guess my question is, why would you like to have an extra input to use instead of always going max run speed? which shows that the devs have no idea what immersion is (for some players at least) and how being able to control your character's movement contributes towards being immersed.


That's because this game heavily taps into Greek mythology. apparently Kassandra's ankles are "blessed by the Gods" or something. It's better explained here: https://youtu.be/DPxT6QvgJN4?t=1m33s

Meh. You can explain away anything with the artifacts of the ancient race and stuff. But this is way too many fantasy elements for Assassin's Creed for my taste. I don't want to play as a god. I want to play as a skillful warrior / assassin. When you are so extremely overpowered, it doesn't feel like your victories are well-deserved.



Disagree. I don't want to hear an American or English accent in Ancient Greece. I'd rather a voice actor makes a bad attempt at an accent than no attempt. Remember Unity where some of the guards were saying French names in west country English accents? Cringe. It also meant that Syndicate didn't feel as fresh because we already heard what a city populated wth British accents sounded like in the previous instalment.

Well then they should hire greek actors with greek accents that would sound naturally. Artificial accents are bad. Ones when you can clearly hear an English speaker try to pretend they can speak with an accent while they actually can't. Which is the case for most side quests NPCs in Origins.


This is a terrible idea, sorry. Players equip and unequip weapons all the time. Just because a weapon is unequipped does not mean it's useless. With one mistake a player could end up losing their most valuable item and that would not be pretty.

Yeah, I guess I see your point. I carry 1 of each item I use and never hoard items. But others may play differently.



Again, agree here. It's as if the big 'X' button (or 'Y' if you're on X Box) above the enemy AI's head saying 'assassinate' is not enough... We get it. We know we can fight them if we want to, you don't have to keep hounding the player about this every 5 seconds. These games are constantly pushing the player into combat and when it's not, it's provoking the AI. In Origins, for instance, guards will be riding horses and Bayek will be nowhere near the road but the enemy AI will still be heard shouting to the top of his computer generated lungs, "move! Get out of the way!. What's wrong with you?!" or Bayek will be several metres away from a miltary base and lookout is already shouting, "you, stop!"

It's the game, once again, begging the player to interact with its various systems: "they are the enemy AI! They can be killed! You can fight them!"

Guards will attack you even when you're fighting predatory animals that were attacking you first which make no sense. I keep using this example from the Witcher 3 but it's a good one: if the player is attacked by a group of bandits the AI is so smart that they can spot who started it and thus will attack the bandits ONLY. They will also not punish you for killing your attackers. In Assasin's Creed, however, guard AI acts as if the player has no right to defend themselves. Even if you don't swing your weapon at what's provoked you - because the game has detected that you're in combat mode - it automatically triggers the guards to start fighting the player. 9 games in and they have NEVER fixed this. Syndicate was the absolute worst for this. Horrible enemy AI.

It's exhausting being the centre of attention at all times when I just want to explore. It also means the game can't be trusted to be left without pausing, even if the protagonist is in the town areas because you know somehow he/she is going to end up in combat mode.

And the thing is, I don't even mind the new combat system. In fact, I enjoy it quite a lot. All the animations and how different weapons feel differently - awesome job. Just don't push the player to fight when they want to be stealthy and cunning.



Agreed. They completely choke the environment with military bases and guarded treasures so it's not like there's a shortage of opportunities for players do them without repopulation. I would also add that if a camp is needed for quests purposes and the palyer has already cleared it out, make sure the quest item/target is there for the start so that the player doesn't have to come back and clear it out again. The player can then tell the quest giver that they've already retrieved the item or killed the target earlier. This is standard RPG quest design.

Another idea would be to populate the cleared out camps with enemies (or friendlies even) of a different faction. Not sure what it will be like in Odyssey, but in Origins, it'd be nice if sometimes rebels populated a cleared out outpost once in a while.

timpbader
06-28-2018, 11:55 AM
A hidden blade.

DaelosTheCat
06-28-2018, 12:53 PM
I'd agree for other instalments but not for Origins because in Bayek's case he is a medjay so he's known to the people. It makes sense that they'd greet him.

Yeah, but it's not like EVERYONE knows he's a Medjay. It's 49 B.C. There's no Facebook to check how a Medjay looks. And depending on player's outfit, a badge is not always visible or even equipped. Also, most of the background chatter is in greek / egyptian and very repetitive.