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View Full Version : New Warden looking good.



Knight_Raime
06-12-2018, 07:55 AM
So from what i've seen around the net Warden has been reworked. From the various footage we have seen it seems Warden has gotten the following changes:

~500ms side lights.
~Faster side heavy. current is 800ms. looks to be 700ms now (eyeballing here.)
~New charged shoulder bash animation. It also looks to have more distance and better tracking. might be faster as well. hard to tell.
~New dash forward attack that comes from the top. Can be done from 200ms into the dodge animation.
~top heavy finisher is unblockable and is same speed of raider's raider fury mix up speed.

What does this all mean?

500ms lights on all sides means warden isn't stuck to only attacking from the top stance from neutral. Faster side heavy is eh but nice i guess. Shoulder bash changes combined with the new dash means reaction to warden on his dash alone isn't going to be a smart idea anymore. And he's got some roll catching potential now. And the top heavy finisher means warden can force a reaction now.

Essentially Warden got more pressure and now feels like he fits with the new way of for honor without being overly complicated and still being himself. Unsure if these are all the changes. And everything stated here has the potential of changing. Post is more of a spitball on the potential of what's been shown so far.

Jazz117Volkov
06-12-2018, 08:05 AM
500 ms side lights should eliminate those instances where you get blocked during your feint mix-up: feint into side light, your opponent feints to cancel their parry and consequently blocks your light. This might still happen in some cases, but with the old timing, that particular mix up was really starting to feel like a waist of time (and stamina).

Knight_Raime
06-12-2018, 08:09 AM
500 ms side lights should eliminate those instances where you get blocked during your feint mix-up: feint into side light, your opponent feints to cancel their parry and consequently blocks your light. This might still happen in some cases, but with the old timing, that particular mix up was really starting to feel like a waist of time (and stamina).

Yeah. Probs still possible if done on prediction but not likely on reaction. Personally i'm really happy about the 500ms side lights. Because that means warden can risk going for extra damage from neutral. OR try and bait into crushing counter from top. Makes his kit play much less one dimensional.

RenegadeTX2000
06-12-2018, 08:09 AM
I'm most curious on the new move where warden dashes forward and attacks...

Can it catch back dodges?

Can it catch shinobi flip?

catch roll away?

What's the distance that it covers for potential neutral usage... Catching whiffed attacks etc so you aren't stuck on only using zone to whiff punish.

When you whiff this move or land it, is it possible to follow up with another attack or go directly into shoulder bash?

This move has potential.. I'm looking forward to it.

EDIT::

and i'm curious on the damage of it as well.. But if this move covers distance and it can be followed up upon any of his moves... THIS WILL BE THE MOVE TO USE... FORGET using zone for whiff punishing... YOu use this move right here lol

RenegadeTX2000
06-12-2018, 08:13 AM
Also regarding your response Knight... THEY better not make this a move finisher. Not as a light... come on now lmao... If it's going to be that way. it should be a heavy.

Charmzzz
06-12-2018, 08:14 AM
Sounds good, could you link the Videos?

Edit: nvm, found it

Knight_Raime
06-12-2018, 08:17 AM
I'm most curious on the new move where warden dashes forward and attacks...

Can it catch back dodges?

Can it catch shinobi flip?

catch roll away?

What's the distance that it covers for potential neutral usage... Catching whiffed attacks etc so you aren't stuck on only using zone to whiff punish.

When you whiff this move or land it, is it possible to follow up with another attack or go directly into shoulder bash?

This move has potential.. I'm looking forward to it.

EDIT::

and i'm curious on the damage of it as well.. But if this move covers distance and it can be followed up upon any of his moves... THIS WILL BE THE MOVE TO USE... FORGET using zone for whiff punishing... YOu use this move right here lol

Back dodges almost certainly since back dash was nerfed. flip? unsure. roll? maybe. if the roll is done instantly. But you can back dash into a roll to delay the roll. That's commonly done to avoid highlanders kick/toss mix up. I don't think it will punish that.

It probably can punish whiffed attacks. And as I touched on in your specific thread it likely can be chained off of. I can't think of any dash attack atm that you can't chain off of. But it's 2am for me so aha. If you can chain off of it bash mix ups or top unblockable would be your options.

Knight_Raime
06-12-2018, 08:18 AM
Sounds good, could you link the Videos?

Edit: nvm, found it

Everything can be found in the ign video. The faster side lights, faster side heavy, and unblockable top heavy finisher are all seen during the siege portion/siege video. And the new bash and dash attack are found around 5:10 in the video.

RenegadeTX2000
06-12-2018, 08:28 AM
regarding shinobi flip. if Warden can catch that. like dodging unblockable kick then dashing forward into that attack. If that works... Warden is back in business...

With the increased speed in his side lights, will you ever go for the 2 light combo in different directions? or will you stick with the double side light combo.

Knight_Raime
06-12-2018, 08:37 AM
regarding shinobi flip. if Warden can catch that. like dodging unblockable kick then dashing forward into that attack. If that works... Warden is back in business...

With the increased speed in his side lights, will you ever go for the 2 light combo in different directions? or will you stick with the double side light combo.

Something I didn't note here but might be a thing is I think his side dash recovery is better. In the siege video in the last segment he seems to dodge to avoid an attack and immediately counter attack. I am not 100% confident on it. But i'm like 90% sure it's better now.

Anyway. It will depend if that dashing attack can come from any dash. if it's only forward dash i don't forsee it being able to punish the whiff kick into back flip unless he did it from slightly out of range to try and bait you into an attack so he can insta GB you for sickle rain. But still not sure on that.

I don't know about his double light combo. It's never really used from what I can recall. The second light is guaranteed after you land the first when you hit from the side. and you can go straight into the unblockable heavy off of that since it's a L>L>H combo. And from the top you can just go into the unblockable after landing it anyway since warden has a L>H combo already.

So. Unless there's some grand master warden out there that can point out some benefit of switching guard stance for a second light I doubt it will be a thing someone does.

RenegadeTX2000
06-12-2018, 08:37 AM
nvm i think that move will catch a shinobi back flipping away after whiffing kick.

I was eye balling the distance in the video we had and that move does cover a decent amount of distance...

Enough distance to where if nobushi whiffs her retreating range attack, you will be able to utilize the move and punish her.

Wardens new running top light covers more distance then his zone attack.

RenegadeTX2000
06-12-2018, 08:43 AM
Something I didn't note here but might be a thing is I think his side dash recovery is better. In the siege video in the last segment he seems to dodge to avoid an attack and immediately counter attack. I am not 100% confident on it. But i'm like 90% sure it's better now.

Anyway. It will depend if that dashing attack can come from any dash. if it's only forward dash i don't forsee it being able to punish the whiff kick into back flip unless he did it from slightly out of range to try and bait you into an attack so he can insta GB you for sickle rain. But still not sure on that.

I don't know about his double light combo. It's never really used from what I can recall. The second light is guaranteed after you land the first when you hit from the side. and you can go straight into the unblockable heavy off of that since it's a L>L>H combo. And from the top you can just go into the unblockable after landing it anyway since warden has a L>H combo already.

So. Unless there's some grand master warden out there that can point out some benefit of switching guard stance for a second light I doubt it will be a thing someone does.

So only use wardens L>L> combos in a 1v2 scenario it seems...

Yeah I also caught that side dash recovery but i dunno if it's placebo, i'll wait on that.

Regarding shinobi kick into back flip... If the side dodge, into immediate forward dodge attack won't punish. You think the new ranged full charge shoulder bash will get the job done?

Jazz117Volkov
06-12-2018, 09:21 AM
So. Unless there's some grand master warden out there that can point out some benefit of switching guard stance for a second light I doubt it will be a thing someone does. I don't think I'm a grand master or anything quite like that, but from my extensive experience with Warden I can tell you switching light direction for a "combo" is a horrible idea. A few times I've gone for the side lights into top heavy, but I've fat fingered the thumbstick so it's come out as side light into top light and it gets parried. The other few times I've deliberately done it it's been blocked.

Much like Centurion's L L: it's a dead combo. Taking a light into a feint or shoulder bash is a better option in every scenario.


So only use wardens L>L> combos in a 1v2 scenario it seems...Yeah, that's been my experience. Landing that 2nd light on a different guy sets you up for a shoulder bash or feint, and the risk is almost 0. Doing it against the same guy, unless they're a newbie, you may as well top heavy your self.

That's another point, not sure how much you play Warden in 4v4, but your lights and shoulder bash are much better options in team fights than your heavies. The bash opens enemies for your team, and your side light combo is decent damage. Crushing counter into charged bash against another enemy is also hot.

Fun fact, counter strike's superior block protects you against other enemies attacking from top guard, while you perform it.

Knight_Raime
06-12-2018, 08:23 PM
I don't think I'm a grand master or anything quite like that, but from my extensive experience with Warden I can tell you switching light direction for a "combo" is a horrible idea. A few times I've gone for the side lights into top heavy, but I've fat fingered the thumbstick so it's come out as side light into top light and it gets parried. The other few times I've deliberately done it it's been blocked.

Much like Centurion's L L: it's a dead combo. Taking a light into a feint or shoulder bash is a better option in every scenario.

Yeah, that's been my experience. Landing that 2nd light on a different guy sets you up for a shoulder bash or feint, and the risk is almost 0. Doing it against the same guy, unless they're a newbie, you may as well top heavy your self.

That's another point, not sure how much you play Warden in 4v4, but your lights and shoulder bash are much better options in team fights than your heavies. The bash opens enemies for your team, and your side light combo is decent damage. Crushing counter into charged bash against another enemy is also hot.

Fun fact, counter strike's superior block protects you against other enemies attacking from top guard, while you perform it.

Yeah I wasn't thinking about ganks/group fights. This is the pain of being mainly a duelist.

Vakris_One
06-12-2018, 11:43 PM
All seems good except that I was hoping they could get rid of the infinite shoulder bash loop and replace it with a single guarranteed strike from a half sword technique that can either:

- Impale the enemy with the sword tip and push them back a little. Would do wall splats and ledges but not knock down unless the opponent is OOS

or

- Stuns the enemy (screen whiteout) with a hilt strike to the head while also doing damage.

Map impale to light attack and hilt bash to heavy. In this way the Warden has useable and entertaining options from SB with none of the annoyingness of the chained shoulder bash loops.