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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:34 PM
Probably waay too premature but, given that Lock On has got self-shadowing aircraft, I would love to see the new game be able to self-shadow any object. I realise that now this sounds pretty heavy going but in 2005, or so, we'll have toasters that can do this /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Seriously though, I would love the aircraft models to have a combination of Lock-On self-shadowing and FS2004's self-shine - that would be awesome.

Furthermore, I want to see planes get dirty! Sounds like a simple request but I think it would make all the difference. Say, for example, you get a Spit from the factory, take it out a few times, fire the guns, landing, oil leaks - they would all make it look worn and dirty, i.e. have the underside getting dirty, engine cowing getting oily/burnt, gun surrounds getting burnt, rust etc, sratches and finger-prints on cockpit canopies etc.

On a slightly different note, it would be really cool if AI pilots had personalities, that were influenced by weather, morale, etc - and also that 'learnt' your tactics and acted accordingly - i.e. use neural net to train em to fly and fight in a 'basic' sense but then learn your style and gradually get better.

rant over /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

/m





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Message Edited on 10/06/0310:40PM by ICAG_Bader

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:34 PM
Probably waay too premature but, given that Lock On has got self-shadowing aircraft, I would love to see the new game be able to self-shadow any object. I realise that now this sounds pretty heavy going but in 2005, or so, we'll have toasters that can do this /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Seriously though, I would love the aircraft models to have a combination of Lock-On self-shadowing and FS2004's self-shine - that would be awesome.

Furthermore, I want to see planes get dirty! Sounds like a simple request but I think it would make all the difference. Say, for example, you get a Spit from the factory, take it out a few times, fire the guns, landing, oil leaks - they would all make it look worn and dirty, i.e. have the underside getting dirty, engine cowing getting oily/burnt, gun surrounds getting burnt, rust etc, sratches and finger-prints on cockpit canopies etc.

On a slightly different note, it would be really cool if AI pilots had personalities, that were influenced by weather, morale, etc - and also that 'learnt' your tactics and acted accordingly - i.e. use neural net to train em to fly and fight in a 'basic' sense but then learn your style and gradually get better.

rant over /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

/m





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Message Edited on 10/06/0310:40PM by ICAG_Bader

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:40 PM
I'm really looking forward to the more detailed DM. One of my favorite elements of FB is seeing dmage appear on a/c where my shells hit. Having even more refined damage effects will be great! Also updated textures for the 109 cockpit will be much appreciated. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:50 PM
Not really a graphical thing, but having the pilots head realistically bounce/move around would be at the top of my list. It would add ALOT to immersion IMHO.

Dirty planes sounds cool. I am looking forward to even more detailed DM's. I think ground objects will have a somewhat detailed DM as well, and that will be amazing. Overall I would love to see ground attack look/feel more realistic but given the nature of the sim, who knows. Either way it should be amazing.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:02 AM
Great ideas guys, I think the damage models could be really special, bullets passing through planes etc etc. What would be really neat would be to have a damage assesment and repair screen after engagements. i.e. like a 3D walk-around your plane, and you have to choose which bits to fix or replace, that would be neat- basically have some ground crew element in there.

/m



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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:08 AM
Yeah self shadowing should be very common by then, hmmm lets see... (puts on speculation cap)

Everything is self shadowing (soft shadows not those low res paper cut outs we have now).
Bloom effects.
Bump/normal mapping for all the rivets and panels.
Specular maps that can be dynamically altered as planes get dirty or damaged, ideal for chipped paint revealing shiny metal.
Almost proper HDRI lighting realtime (probably a bit too early for that although I have seen it on an ATI demo, was slow as hell).
MOTION BLUR!
Maybe displacement mapping for level of detailing? Not sure how well that would work on non organic shapes...
Heat Blur on fires and exhausts.

Apart from HDRI everything is possible now with the latest graphics cards, just not all at the same time /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

If you like to see some cool CG planes check this thread out at CGTalk:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39835&highlight=post+your

Cheers.



Message Edited on 10/07/0312:15AM by Mispunt

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:15 AM
Giant Mech-Queen Elizibeth with Kung-Fu Peasant Wave and lightning that shoots out of her eyes!


Try to take THAT on with a 109!

---
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To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori."

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"Dulce et Decorum est"

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:22 AM
I just want a better cloud/skyscape. Multiple layers etc.

_____________
Ian Boys
=38=Tatarenko
Kapitan - 38. OIAE

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:22 AM
if we had bumpmaps of rivets and details, what would our expert skinners do/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif it would be pretty sweet though, especially if you could edit the bumpmaps yourself

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:22 AM
Grass blades like whats featured in that command sim 1C is doing.

Obvious cracks, dents, etc. from overstressing the airframe. Dynamic damage shown (IE, you always get different results from where you hit a airplane and with what weapon; you might put 5 rounds into the wing on one plane, then put 5 hits into another of the same type but have them appear in a different area based upon the exact area they hit at.)

Ambient light from the moon at night to aid in night fights.

More graphically advanced forests and trees.

Non-graphical parts:

Small things like REAL complex engine start - turn on magnetos, etc.

Ability to open or close the canopy.

Would like to have the ability to walk around just on the airfield as a pilot and pick the plane you want to fly. You could walk around the aircraft and this would double as a information source for the airplane (sorta like WW2 Fighters except dynamic.)

Much more advanced damage modelling and put in random failures. Sometimes you get a short circuit and your equipment goes dead, sometimes get a control failure, and so on.

Less tough to down fighters. A 20mm hit should spell near certain death for a fighter.

A P-38. Err... Nevermind. A Whirlwind would be better for the scenario. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:23 AM
I'd first of all like an end to the ghost pilot tradition.

A height adjustable seat(camera). If one doesn't like the stock view, see what adjusting the seat can do.

No disappearing wings when looking around.

Dirty glass only when it gets dirty, not as a permanent condition.

Contrail persistence at altitude.

More realistic night flying and moon phases.

Windsocks, raindrops, no disappering ground traffic.

If shipping is a feature, the ships should make avoidance moves to the best of their speed and ability and not be straight course/speed targets.

Infantry and rear echelon personnel to strafe.

Flakpanzers and other varied AA.

Populated cities.

No pentagonal sun glare.

10km altitude should not look like near earth orbit.

Waves/whitecaps at sea, not just the beach.

Varied color smoke/liquid blob telltales for damage, it wasn't always black smoke/fluid and a spray of radiator glycol looks different from hydraulic fluid which looks different than oil which looks different from fuel.

More varigated vegetation.

A full array of cloud types dependent on conditions.

That ought to about cover it.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:41 AM
I'm siting in the sun on an old armchair when the phone rings and I run to my aircraft in first person where my groundcrew help me in and we have a massed take off.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:54 AM
my wishes:
1)1 bullet, 1 hole. If very far away, make a lump instead of a hole /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Cannon round can explode inside the fuselage and blow the tail or wing apart
2)As the customize aircraft option, "customize cockpit" option. There you can make several adjustments in your pit, such as seat height, mirrors, photos (/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ) and a bullseye with adjustable distance in front of the plane, so you can adjust your convergence like the pilots did. Some dudes running and twitching your guns between one convergence and another /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
3)Unique plane carachteristics. Like, one plane batch comes to your airfield with a very consuming engine, or a defecting landing gear, or a bad prop... Then you get shot down and get another plane batch with a vicious left drag in the aileron, and rather hard rudder pedals... you know what i'm saying? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
4) "you are clear to take off" message from the control tower
5) squadron take off and landing
More screams from the radio would be nice too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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<

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:58 AM
AP Rounds passing through the airframes and continuing out the other side would be nice to see.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:03 AM
Ducks!

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:07 AM
I want to see realistic looking weather formations. It can be done much better than it has been so far...and the weather variation in England is no doubt an impetus to provide more impressive and indeed discreet types of weather.

I'd like to see actual thunderheads during encounters with thunderstorms.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:59 AM
something to add to IceFire's post... i would like to be able to hide from or lose AI craft by utilizing the clouds. this was a complint about FB and i think in 2 years it can be fixed.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:22 AM
All that fancy stuff...

I'll be happy to just see some windsocks! That's what we need by golly, windsocks that show wind direction. I've been hit with turbulence and buffeting even at takeoff with nothing at all to indicate there was a wind to begin with until the ship starts to quake or doesn't want to point down the runway like normal.

Now, if I could look over at the windsock (a historically correct feature that would serve a nifty operational purpose in the game mind you...), why then I'd know for sure there was a wind, and which way it was a heading and I'd be able to adjust to it.

Speaking of which, be nice to see wind speed and wind direction taken a bit more serious in the next version. Something one really has to cope with. Like a nice cross wind ripping across the runway about the time your ready to set down with a few holes in yer wing. (Watch them windwocks!).


Bruno Weiss

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:36 AM
-Wing Flex
-Stress Limitations
-Proper climb rates/effect (hanging on the prop shouldn't give best rate of climb eg 109K and prolly all others)
-Much better clouds
-Much better high alt modeling
-Greater visual distance
-"1000% better" FM's
-Modeling of all rounds, better DM
-Whitecaps at sea
-Cliffs of Dover /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-Depends for diving in on 200+ bogies with just your squadron
-Better AI interaction
-Better 1.5682 Trillion to the Nth power AI FM

I'm sure I can think of more... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 04:32 AM
I would like to see:

1) Realistic, persistent smoke and flames, influenced by the wind layers both at ground level and aloft. Also, thermal layering of the smoke plumes at very high altitude.

I want to bomb the London docks and oil storage facilities, and see them still burning when I return the next day.

2) Oil slicks on the water from crashed planes, sinking/damaged ships, docks, and shoreside installations. Floating debris from both would be nice.

3) Wing-tip vortices visible if I fly through a smoke plume.

4) More activity on the ground: vehicles, fire-trucks, men running to slit trenches, pilots running to planes, crews running to the AA guns, some poor bloke cranking the air-raid siren as the everybody else is running to shelter,

5) Ships attempting to realistically evade attack by planes and other ships.

6) Rescue launches and E-boats doing their thing.

7) Downed pilots floating in liferafts waiting to be rescued.


Message Edited on 10/06/0310:35PM by ******yWombat

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 04:38 AM
I'd like to see someone Like Hammerd do the skins, that guy is awesome, but instead of having a stock skin with overlying Code Letters/Numbers, I think it would be much better to have alot of Skins with the Code Letters and Stuff on them, so they blend with the Airframe and dont look like They're plates Glued on /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif I also like the idea for the Plane getting dirtier, and the ground crew thing, as long as ya had the option to keep it automatic aswell, then you could have the Canopy and windshield polished for you, while the rest of it gets dirtier.

Kill Markings would be great, as long as they looked painted on instead of a 'floating' picture.

The Self Shadowing also sounds great.

Another thing I'd like to see is a better moddled pilot/aircrew and for the fighter pilots especailly, that aren't flying in close formations, to have thier heads constantly turning, and checking the sky.

Thats what I'd like. I'd also like the Campeign to be able to run in real time ie. waiting at dispersal, but perhaps with an option to skip to the next sortie for those who don't want to wait.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 04:54 AM
Alpha channels for object skins, mmmmm shiny.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 05:53 AM
'Camera Shake' when you're using external view.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:02 AM
My three whishes:

- OpenGL API
- Mouse View
- Head Shake effect (my favourite in the IL-2 FB)

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:15 AM
ianboys wrote:
- I just want a better cloud/skyscape. Multiple layers
- etc.
-
- _____________
- Ian Boys
- =38=Tatarenko
- Kapitan - 38. OIAE
-

Have to agree Ian, that is a crucial part of the BoB, bombers and fighter bombers sneeking in the cloud layer, it would be nice if AI and AAA couldnt see you in the clouds as well.
Appreciate the great work your doing keeping us informed of developments S!

JG4_Tiger

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:19 AM
Erik your wishes are granted! No one else wants ducks? I think ducks would be sooo sweet. How about cows? I would suggest horses but I remember where that discussion goes. Seeing laundry waving on the line would be sweet too.
Bump and specular mapping are things I have yet to see in a simulation that I think could be put to excellent use, both inside and out. As far as the multi layerd clouds go I think it is a must to properly simulate conditions during the BOB. AI that can see, or loose sight of. AI that has a cetain amount of tactical knowlege and plays on a level playing field with the human elements. Dropping a frame or two to capture a screenshot and process it to look like guncam footage for review after a flight would be slightly cheesy but still cool. Overstessed airframes and all that that entails. Comunications from fightercommand that might not allways be right as radar was a ify thing.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:33 AM
- Historical correct paintschemes appropriate for each Staffel/Squadron

- correct markings, emblems and emblem positions

- less rigid marking (read: Number) system

and and and ...


EDIT: Something like that ...

<div align=center>
http://home.arcor.de/csthor/bilder/bobjagdwaffeemblems.jpg
</div>

---------------------------
http://home.t-online.de/home/340045970094-0001/lwskins_banner_gross.jpg (http://www.lwskins.de.vu)
Historical Skins for Luftwaffe-Fighters

Message Edited on 10/07/0309:44AM by csThor

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:18 AM
I second Blade_X's request.

It's a relatively simple one but the option for moving cameras in Lock On's externals that act like a chase plane instead of a rock solid view is spot on.

More of that, please!

Oh, and dynamic weather that's better than FS9.

AND - an option for more washed out colours like the most basic of photoshop edits by Rogodin and co. Nothing too fancy, just a less "bright" world that looks more 1940s. That would be fantastic.

SSS

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:38 AM
There are two strange features of the FB engine - the
first is the rendition of forests/woods, and the second
is the general feel at 10,000m, which doesn't really
match what flying at 10,000m looks like. If those two
get sorted out, and it is possible to have cities with
a decent density of buildings without crippling a mid
range PC of 2005, then the ability to have FB level
graphics, but maxed out for a 2005 mid level PC would be
fine.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:43 AM
Primarily of course, apart from the 1940's washed out colours, I'd like a graphics engine that enables me to distinguish between Earl Grey and English Breakfast tea whilst resting between sorties in my Spitfire.

Cheers,

SSS

Cpt.LoneRanger
10-07-2003, 10:48 AM
It was allready said, the BoB engine will be able to display dogfights with 100+ aircraft. THAT is what I want /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Besides that, a system like it was seen in the Patches of B17 II - "TheMightyEighth", that can display victories and missions, perhaps even names on the plane. That would really be a little, but very nice detail.

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger


http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/SIG2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:24 PM
I actualy agree with Lunix - birds, such as the odd flight of ducks or flock of birds would add a 3D effect. Saw it once on a TV documentary descrbing Roman times and using great graphics. As the camera panned right, a flock of birds passed slightly below and to the left in the middle distance which really gave a convincing 3D effect. Seem to recall they also did that with the graphics in the Gladiator film - could be wrong.
Failing which, the facility to use a set of 3D glasses that would work properly. I've never tried any of the current commercial offerings as I gather they're not that good, but wouldn't 3D really bring all our games to life! It's an area that's not been fully explored and yet which at the cinema really looks great. Imagine that gut-wrenching feeling as you fly at ground level over a cliff or mountain and you look down to see the ground dropping away - trouble is we'd also need a handy supply of sick bags . . .

I'd also like to see clouds that we (and the enemy) could nip in and out of to hide from one another or from unexpected flak etc.

Also agree about crosswinds etc, and pouring rain that blurs the windscreen.

Of course all these are just bonuses. As long as the sim itself manages to look, perform and especially 'feel' right I shall be a happy puppy.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:52 PM
choxaway wrote:

- I'd also like to see clouds that we (and the enemy)
- could nip in and out of to hide from one another or
- from unexpected flak etc.

Another votes for clouds - with the AI being affected by them. Also, different types of cloud. I'd also like to see cockpits of distant planes twinkling with reflected sunlight - this would make it much easier to pick out planes below (and perhaps briefly raise gamma to get the impression of the glare). If there's a way to make planes more visible against the background that would be good too - I was chasing a Yak at about 50m, but as soon as I climbed I couldn't see him anymore, even though I knew roughly where he was.

Better immersion with ground crew, taxiing, mess (including enemy silhouette charts), etc.

Better briefings, including "you'll have an escort of...", "sqn XXX will be operating in the area...". "We've been grounded for 5 days due to severe weather...".

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:19 PM
I want smaller gun flames.

Getting sick of the flame throwers at the nose.



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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:29 PM
Correctly modelled cockpits when it comes to the view seen by the pilot. No more view with no armour glass installed.


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"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:58 PM
Realistic clouds - that move with the weather.

(Hint: The prevailing wind over southern England is from the South-West, or West-South-West).


Realistic landing fields.
Does anybody know how Biggin Hill was laid out in 1940?

Today one of the run-ways has a very distinct dip.


(Hint: Good quality digitised contour maps of England are available - sure he'd have to pay a licence fee, but ...)

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:30 PM
What I would really like to see, is a prober simulation of the bad teeth of the British pilots: Don't just let'em have a yellowish/brownish hue. Let them come loose, and maybe even rot during a campaign! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

cheers/slush

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:58 PM
I want to see in on the current IL-2 engine and out for Christmas http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm sure their ideas are better than mine so I will leave it to them.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:08 PM
I would also like to see realistic search lights, that light up passing clouds and so forth, that would be very neat. Ground crew has been mentioned but I really would like to see some real effort put into that. The rigger and fitter should be there, to talk to after missions as you examine battle damage. The armourer and his mate should be there, with realistic ammo loading (~3 mins per) and refueling.

The rigger and fitter should also help you get into the cockpit as you scramble and jump into a plane that the engine chap has already started, they should be either side of the cockpit and the guys should sit on the tail as you rev up.

Realistic repairs and resources should make it so that the rigger or fitter warns, and shows you, any potential problems with the engine and/or airframe - should make you concious of things that might go wrong.

/m





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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:30 PM
Ground crew. Better damage model. Better cockpits, the FW-190 A9 cockpit looks wonderful, but the P-47 cockpit par example could use some improvement.

BTW, are the developers really reading these forums?

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:33 PM
All of the above, plus (just to push the boundaries a little further):

Realistic grass/wheat fields rendered when you are within 50m of the surface (I understand this is already coded into FB but disabled for FPS reasons. Could this be enabled retrospectively by means of a small patch in 12 months time?)

Much more ground detail- dry stone walls and hedgerows to crash through, drainage ditches to make landings difficult. It's going to be hard to capture the look of the English countryside at low level with acceptable detail. England is/was intensively farmed so ploughed fields and different crop textures should abound- there should be comparitively few places you can make a successful wheels down landing- unlike the Russian steppes. There should also be more topography to stay faithful to the 'rolling' nature of the hills and dales- not just flat plains with coloured patches on them.

The pilot figures are still like cardboard cut outs in FB. The plane physics are pretty well done but you don't get the feeling that a real human being is involved when the pilot bails- they are too stiff and limited in their reactions to the effects of gravity and the slipstream. Some 'rag doll' physics would improve their tumbling. The running pilots lack fluidity and are still pretty roughly modelled in FB- there's something wrong about their shoulders. With a little more effort it should be possible to properly mimick the athletic motion of a man in a hurry.

I recently read an account of a German attack on RAF Hornchurch in 1940- several Spitfires which were already rolling and about to take off were hurled into the air by the shock waves of nearby bomb blasts and fell to ground a quarter of a mile away. The FB engine can't do this at the moment- throw planes from the ground as whole objects- but maybe its successor could.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:33 PM
I want bumpy ground - bump mapped ground, so that it looks like a stony field when it should. I also want people running around at airfields, millitary installations and at cities. I want better smoke and particle effects. I want the aiming sight glass to be refractive. I want Dynamic Weather.

http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg


"Come on in, I'll treat you right. I used to know your daddy."

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 04:10 PM
I agree with all of these:

1- Windsocks! what airfield doesn't have a windsock?

2- tpwer giving takeoff clearance (chewing up the wingleader's tail is such a pain in the arse- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

3- AI which can see through clouds... a whole new level of immersion!

4- exhaust glow (heat and trail)

5- propwash from a/c taking off ahead of you should give slight turbulence (minor rocking of your wings)

6- signs of "life": smoke from factories/homes, random city vehicle traffic, birds (with birdstrike risk), cows/deer...

7- more "pomp and circumstance" when awarded medals or getting a promotion (ie: brief animations of your pilot getting decorated). Also, more "personal" touches: when you hit a certain level you get an option to customize your paintjob (Red Baron style).

ohhhh, the wish list ccould go on and on! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 04:17 PM
squadron takeoffs would be fun /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

and also stead of the famous doggy fighting

maybe a wider game featuring ansons and such doin coast patrols

http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/tests/giantrobot/bender.jpg
Which Colossal Death Robot Are You? (http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/tests/giantrobot/)

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 04:30 PM
Wouldn't trim wheels/adjustments that move and have and have indicators so you can tell where they are set be neat? The next time you jump in, you could set up trim the way you like it before even leaving the ground. Better control in the cockpit in general would be nice as mentioned before. You could just lump that together with CEM so folks that don't want to mess with it wouldn't have to.

Having more dynamic weather would be nice as everyone has mentioned. Just imagine haveing to get a weather report and needing to take into consideration different wind directions due to the current weather pattern. I like the idea of being able to walk around and choose your crate too but thats alot of pain in the rear coding (I imagine) for just that. I would much rather have aircraft/weather features if there was a choice to be had.

The thought of it beeing possbile with this great line of sims gives me goose bumps.

It would be nice if we could keep this thread void of any bickering about FM's and such. If Oleg sees it, who knows, he might take some of these suggestions into consideration.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 05:37 PM
Cold_Gambler wrote:
[...]

8. WAAFs