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Shahed_Kazi
08-12-2006, 10:55 PM
Hi All

I've started playing about a week ago. Played Red Storm Rising on the Commodore 64, 688, etc. SO basically a sub fan since I was a kid. But now that I'm all grown up (lol) I forgot a lot about sub warfare, so I'm going to be here now and again with some questions for the pros & news alike. Hope you can help.

I'm playing the GW mod which I installed on day 3. I'm now in my 7th patrol. I've sunk:

-1 Carrier
-1 Auxilliary Cruiser
-1 Fiji Cruiser
-1 Battleship, Nelson
-1 Destroyer
-1 Armed Trawler
-numerous C2,C3 types
-5-6 tankers

... for a total tonnage of 190k. 2 port attacks, Scapa Flow & Loch Ewe. I'm pretty content with the progress so far, still got some issues.

1. Torpedo Angles: Typically I miss 2-4 torpedoes in a patrol. It's mostly due to bad positioning. I end up hitting the target at a shallower than 45 degree angle, and the torp deflects on if it's magnetic, it blows a whle lot of water but does virtually nothing. Questions are

-are there any tutorials on how to position best ?
-what are the best angles ?
-how to achieve them ?
-Is magnetic better or impact ?
-Under what circumstances does the preference change ?
-How many toprs doe you use in GW per 5k i.e a 5k ship will sink in GW with how many torps on average (for you) ?
-The biggest issue I'm having is using too many torps to kill one freakin ship. Could anyone please give me some tips on how best to sink a ship in GW without having to use 3-4 torps each ?

2.I'd like to install Bunkerat's mod for more ship types.
-Does anyone know where I can find it ?
-Is it compatible with GW 1.1 ?

3.
-Does anyone know where to get a milkcow mod ?
-Is it compatible with GW 1.1 ?

4. Capital ships.
I killed the Nelson in port with 6 torps. I found it pretty heavy, whereas I've sunk a Large Cargo 7k+ with one magnetic under the keel at a 40 degree angle.
-Does anyone feel that things are too hard to sink in GW, requiring too many torps ?

5.
- Where can I find a comprehensive list of the damage model in GW ? I'd like to know where to hit for maximum damage.
-Is there a forum or a guide, help, specifically for GW ?
-Where can I find the renown per ship suk in GW ?

6.
The extended GW mod by Carpico (sp?). Is it compatible with GW 1.1 ?

7. Mines !
GW has a lot of random mines around the British coast.
-Is there any way to detect them rather than detecting them on impact ?
-Are these mines anti sub mines, surface, or both (i.e is it better to be surfaced to avoid hitting a mine?) ?

8.
-Do you usually engage escorts in a convoy given the choice not to?

9.
-If you do sink a lot of military ships will you end up running into fewer of them ? Can't stand destroyers, so annoying, so if you kill a lot of them will their numbers on sea be visibly reduced ?

Well that's all for now. Thanks in advance for the help !

Salute !

Shahed_Kazi
08-12-2006, 10:55 PM
Hi All

I've started playing about a week ago. Played Red Storm Rising on the Commodore 64, 688, etc. SO basically a sub fan since I was a kid. But now that I'm all grown up (lol) I forgot a lot about sub warfare, so I'm going to be here now and again with some questions for the pros & news alike. Hope you can help.

I'm playing the GW mod which I installed on day 3. I'm now in my 7th patrol. I've sunk:

-1 Carrier
-1 Auxilliary Cruiser
-1 Fiji Cruiser
-1 Battleship, Nelson
-1 Destroyer
-1 Armed Trawler
-numerous C2,C3 types
-5-6 tankers

... for a total tonnage of 190k. 2 port attacks, Scapa Flow & Loch Ewe. I'm pretty content with the progress so far, still got some issues.

1. Torpedo Angles: Typically I miss 2-4 torpedoes in a patrol. It's mostly due to bad positioning. I end up hitting the target at a shallower than 45 degree angle, and the torp deflects on if it's magnetic, it blows a whle lot of water but does virtually nothing. Questions are

-are there any tutorials on how to position best ?
-what are the best angles ?
-how to achieve them ?
-Is magnetic better or impact ?
-Under what circumstances does the preference change ?
-How many toprs doe you use in GW per 5k i.e a 5k ship will sink in GW with how many torps on average (for you) ?
-The biggest issue I'm having is using too many torps to kill one freakin ship. Could anyone please give me some tips on how best to sink a ship in GW without having to use 3-4 torps each ?

2.I'd like to install Bunkerat's mod for more ship types.
-Does anyone know where I can find it ?
-Is it compatible with GW 1.1 ?

3.
-Does anyone know where to get a milkcow mod ?
-Is it compatible with GW 1.1 ?

4. Capital ships.
I killed the Nelson in port with 6 torps. I found it pretty heavy, whereas I've sunk a Large Cargo 7k+ with one magnetic under the keel at a 40 degree angle.
-Does anyone feel that things are too hard to sink in GW, requiring too many torps ?

5.
- Where can I find a comprehensive list of the damage model in GW ? I'd like to know where to hit for maximum damage.
-Is there a forum or a guide, help, specifically for GW ?
-Where can I find the renown per ship suk in GW ?

6.
The extended GW mod by Carpico (sp?). Is it compatible with GW 1.1 ?

7. Mines !
GW has a lot of random mines around the British coast.
-Is there any way to detect them rather than detecting them on impact ?
-Are these mines anti sub mines, surface, or both (i.e is it better to be surfaced to avoid hitting a mine?) ?

8.
-Do you usually engage escorts in a convoy given the choice not to?

9.
-If you do sink a lot of military ships will you end up running into fewer of them ? Can't stand destroyers, so annoying, so if you kill a lot of them will their numbers on sea be visibly reduced ?

Well that's all for now. Thanks in advance for the help !

Salute !

tuddley3
08-13-2006, 12:07 AM
This is the second post in a week someone has mentioned the C64 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I remember Silent Service and Destroyer, I still have a C64 and still works with the 1541 disc drive.

As for your Q's, I'm still kinda new to the GW Mod, so I'm still learnig also. I've had to start my current patrol over about 3 times so far due to Warships in AN55. I cant seem to get the hang of them.

Anyway, feel free to ask any questions you like here, because there are alot of nice helpful Kaleuns on this site.

BR Ships http://files.filefront.com/shipszip/;5326564;;/fileinfo.html

I think Milk Mod is already included in GW.

Damage can be found in the Recognition Manual, it is more improved in GW, and has color coded section on ship to show Sweet Spots.

You mean Carotio? You can leave him a question in the Community Help forum, he visits every couple days.

Ali_109
08-13-2006, 01:15 AM
http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/
This should help with the mod q's
Also, i am no expert but GW is more realistic as far as the torps are concerned, I have found that your angle has to be much more precise and i also take into account which torp to use, speed, and the draft of the ship etc. The distance is also important, if you fire from 300 or less i find it just bounces off and hasn't got time to impact, i find i get a better impact approx 700-1000. If you search in the posts you will find loads of good info on this subject. Good Luck

AO1_AW_SW_USN
08-13-2006, 02:01 AM
First off, welcome aboard! I'll try to answer you questions in chronological order.


-are there any tutorials on how to position best?

You can get a lot of help from the pros here at the Official SH3 Forums. One on the best sources is the Online Community Manual found here: SH3 Community Manual (http://www.communitymanuals.com/shiii/index.php?title=Main_Page)


-what are the best angles?
-how to acheive them?

The best overall angle is when the impact point of the torpedo will hit its target as close to 90 degrees port or starboard as possible. The Navigation Map has tools that you can use such as a compass, ruler and various others that aids you in this task. They can help determine the course in which your sub should be positioned in so that you can achieve the 90 AOB for torpedo attacks.


-Is magnetic better or impact?

That depends on a number of factors. Are you running the "Dud Torpedoes" option in the realism settings? If so, then the game models all German torpedoes during that time and era. Historically, the Germans encountered disastrous results with their magnetic pistols... all due to a fault in their design. The pistols were overly sensitive to shock, and nothing creates more shock to a torpedo than when it's launched by compressed air in a torpedo tube. The result was premature detonations. As the war progressed, more and more U-boat skippers reported failed torpedoes and the issues was finally addressed and slowly corrected.

Impact pistols also had their problems as well. A series of "whiskers" prevented the impact pistols to detonate the main charge if the impact angle was less then 90 AOB on the target.

To get to my point, it all depends on your realism settings, the current year of your campaign (later in the war = better hit probability) and the Desktop Skipper's skill in conducting torpedo attacks.


-Under what circumstances does the preference change?

That ultimately depends on the tactical situation. You may want to run a torpedo under the shallow hull of a Small Merchant in order to nail that juicy T-3 Tanker while attacking a convoy. Or, you may want to run a "Down the Throat" shot on a pursuing Destroyer that's hot on your tail. Only experience will give you that 6th sense and the ability to make that kind of call on the fly.


-How many torps do you use in GW per 5k i.e a 5k ship will sink in GW with how many torps on average (for you)?
-The biggest issue I'm having is using too many torps to kill one freakin ship. Could anyone please give me some tips on how to sink a ship in GW without have to use 3-4 torps each?

That's the beauty of the NYGM addition to the GW mod. What the NYGM mod did was take away the stock "Hit Points" from all ships in the game. Instead the damage model relies on where and how you strike the target in order to eliminate it's positive buoyancy (ie: a ship's ability to stay afloat due to compartmentalization and the air contained within its spaces). I can take 8 torpedoes on a Small Merchant... but one shot to obliterate a Illustrious Class Aircraft Carrier. It is all random, and most of us love it because it keeps us guessing on how much damage it would take to sink a single target... just like it was in WWII!


2.I'd like to install Bunkerat's mod for more ship types.
-Does anyone know where I can find it?
-Is it compatiable with GW 1.1?

That's a question for Bunkerrat because I haven't looked into it... yet. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


3.
-Does anyone know where to get a milkcow mod ?
-Is it compatible with GW 1.1 ?

I haven't exploited the feature in GW myself. Once I run out of torps, I go back to base. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I stongly believe that a milkcow mod comes with GW 1.1.


4. Capital Ships.
I killed the Nelson in port with 6 torps. I found it pretty heavy, whereas I've sunk a Large Cargo 7k+ with one magnetic under the keel at a 40 degree angle.
-Does anyone feel that things are too hard to sink in GW. requiring too many torps?

As stated above, that's the beauty of the NYGM addition. The GW mod was aimed (in my opinion) to create more realism with a submarine simulation. The mod almost re-creates the random and unknown variables like it did with the German U-Boat commanders back in WWII. Personally, I did enjoy taking a IXC-40 and making two entire convoys disappear of the face of the map in the un-modded/stock version of the game. Was it fun?... for a time. Was it real? ... by all means, no. Geting over 100,000k per patrol by one U-Boat never happened in real life. So when it came time when I wanted realism in a simulation game, I looked to the GW mod.

The GW mod isn't for everyone. But if you want different kind of realism, there are other avenues that you can pursue like the IUB, or RUB mods that may (or may not) suit your playing style.


5.
- Where can I find a comprehensive list of the damage model in GW? I'd like to know where to hit of maximum damage.
-Is there a forum of a guide, help, specifically for GW?
-Where can I find the renown per ship suk in GW?

I'm not sure where to find a comprehensive list of the damage model in GW, but the Readme file that came with GW explains the NYGM addition to the GW.

The best help for GW is here in the Official SH3 forums. Most of the developers of the mod frequents this site and answers most questions regardning the GW mod and the add-ons associated with it.

To find the renown awarded for the type of ships sunk in SH3, refeer to the Community Manual.


6.
The extended GM mod by Carpico (sp?). Is it compatiable with GW 1.1?

I'm sorry, but I've been away from SH3 for quite sometime so I haven't yet heard of the Extended GW mod. I'm sure someone has and would assist you the best they can.


7. Mines!
GW has a lot of random mines around the British coast.
-Is there any way to detect them rather than detecting them on impact?
-Are these mines anti-sub mines, surface, or both (i.e is it better to be surfaced to avoid hitting a mine?)?

The best advice that I can give... and keep in mind that this is cheating... is to open your SH3 Mission Editor and print off the locations of the mines, using an available printer. Use this as a guide in and around enemy harbors and choke-points.

Mines are indiscriminate as far as a target is concerned. Surfaced, submerged... it doesn’t matter because it's instant catastrophe to any U-Boat. It's best to avoid areas suspected of being mined... period.


9.
-If you do sink a lot of military ships will you end up running into fewer of them? Can't understand destroyers, so annoying, so if you kill a lot of them will their numbers on sea be visibly reduced?

Unfortunatly, no. Just like it was in WWII, the might of the British and US industy caught up and surpassed the ammount of tonnage sunk by the Axis powers. So the game models this by spawning the same ship, patroling the same area of ocean for a set timeframe. For example: A lone V&W Destroyer can patrol BF13 from January 1941 until November 1944. So every time you start up a brand new patrol, that lone DD will be there, just like it was on your last patrol.

Sinking DD's, DE's, Corvettes ect. is pointless. Their numbers don't get reduced. You'll find out that in the later stages of the war it's quite the opposite.... their numbers increase with the introduction of dedicated "Hunter/Killer" Task Forces.



Hope that I've helped you to some degree. Good Luck and once again... welcome aboard, shipmate!

Carotio
08-13-2006, 02:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shahed_Kazi:
6.
The extended GW mod by Carpico (sp?). Is it compatible with GW 1.1 ?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's me, then maybe! I have heard of someone having trouble with the installable TGW1.1a and GW-UA1.14, so that's why I recommend using GW1.0

I built GW-UA as an add on for GW1.0. When the 1.1 update came out, I put it in my add on and patches, so you should use the original version, which is available at my site through RapidShare or at http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/

Shahed_Kazi
08-14-2006, 08:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tuddley3:
This is the second post in a week someone has mentioned the C64 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I remember Silent Service and Destroyer, I still have a C64 and still works with the 1541 disc drive.

As for your Q's, I'm still kinda new to the GW Mod, so I'm still learnig also. I've had to start my current patrol over about 3 times so far due to Warships in AN55. I cant seem to get the hang of them.

Anyway, feel free to ask any questions you like here, because there are alot of nice helpful Kaleuns on this site.

BR Ships http://files.filefront.com/shipszip/;5326564;;/fileinfo.html

I think Milk Mod is already included in GW.

Damage can be found in the Recognition Manual, it is more improved in GW, and has color coded section on ship to show Sweet Spots.

You mean Carotio? You can leave him a question in the Community Help forum, he visits every couple days. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ohh darn how could I forget Silent Service, such such an awesome game. Thanks a lot for the tips ! Specially the recog manual. Now I'm doing waaay better already averaging 2 torps per kill.

Shahed_Kazi
08-14-2006, 08:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ali_109:
http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/
This should help with the mod q's
Also, i am no expert but GW is more realistic as far as the torps are concerned, I have found that your angle has to be much more precise and i also take into account which torp to use, speed, and the draft of the ship etc. The distance is also important, if you fire from 300 or less i find it just bounces off and hasn't got time to impact, i find i get a better impact approx 700-1000. If you search in the posts you will find loads of good info on this subject. Good Luck </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeap, I've found the same. Angle is much more important in GW. I usually go close to 500 before firing but am trying to hit specific spots on the ship from further if I can.

Shahed_Kazi
08-14-2006, 08:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Carotio:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shahed_Kazi:
6.
The extended GW mod by Carpico (sp?). Is it compatible with GW 1.1 ?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's me, then maybe! I have heard of someone having trouble with the installable TGW1.1a and GW-UA1.14, so that's why I recommend using GW1.0

I built GW-UA as an add on for GW1.0. When the 1.1 update came out, I put it in my add on and patches, so you should use the original version, which is available at my site through RapidShare or at http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hij Carotio !

Denmark =&gt; awesome country. Had the pleasure of a visit last month.

ABout the mod. So I fresh install SH3 and your mod and yours has Milk Mod inc
Sorry got your name name wrong. I'm quite confused though with all the mods around. Here's what I'm looking for:

-Sh3 COmmander
-GW
-Maximum amount of skins/ships/ uniforms etc

Does yours have this included ? What does yours include actually ? In what way is it different from the GW ? Does it keep all of GW and add to it ?

Shahed_Kazi
08-15-2006, 10:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AO1_AW_SW_USN:
First off, welcome aboard! I'll try to answer you questions in chronological order.


-are there any tutorials on how to position best?

You can get a lot of help from the pros here at the Official SH3 Forums. One on the best sources is the Online Community Manual found here: SH3 Community Manual (http://www.communitymanuals.com/shiii/index.php?title=Main_Page)


-what are the best angles?
-how to acheive them?

The best overall angle is when the impact point of the torpedo will hit its target as close to 90 degrees port or starboard as possible. The Navigation Map has tools that you can use such as a compass, ruler and various others that aids you in this task. They can help determine the course in which your sub should be positioned in so that you can achieve the 90 AOB for torpedo attacks.


-Is magnetic better or impact?

That depends on a number of factors. Are you running the "Dud Torpedoes" option in the realism settings? If so, then the game models all German torpedoes during that time and era. Historically, the Germans encountered disastrous results with their magnetic pistols... all due to a fault in their design. The pistols were overly sensitive to shock, and nothing creates more shock to a torpedo than when it's launched by compressed air in a torpedo tube. The result was premature detonations. As the war progressed, more and more U-boat skippers reported failed torpedoes and the issues was finally addressed and slowly corrected.

Impact pistols also had their problems as well. A series of "whiskers" prevented the impact pistols to detonate the main charge if the impact angle was less then 90 AOB on the target.

To get to my point, it all depends on your realism settings, the current year of your campaign (later in the war = better hit probability) and the Desktop Skipper's skill in conducting torpedo attacks.


-Under what circumstances does the preference change?

That ultimately depends on the tactical situation. You may want to run a torpedo under the shallow hull of a Small Merchant in order to nail that juicy T-3 Tanker while attacking a convoy. Or, you may want to run a "Down the Throat" shot on a pursuing Destroyer that's hot on your tail. Only experience will give you that 6th sense and the ability to make that kind of call on the fly.


-How many torps do you use in GW per 5k i.e a 5k ship will sink in GW with how many torps on average (for you)?
-The biggest issue I'm having is using too many torps to kill one freakin ship. Could anyone please give me some tips on how to sink a ship in GW without have to use 3-4 torps each?

That's the beauty of the NYGM addition to the GW mod. What the NYGM mod did was take away the stock "Hit Points" from all ships in the game. Instead the damage model relies on where and how you strike the target in order to eliminate it's positive buoyancy (ie: a ship's ability to stay afloat due to compartmentalization and the air contained within its spaces). I can take 8 torpedoes on a Small Merchant... but one shot to obliterate a Illustrious Class Aircraft Carrier. It is all random, and most of us love it because it keeps us guessing on how much damage it would take to sink a single target... just like it was in WWII!


2.I'd like to install Bunkerat's mod for more ship types.
-Does anyone know where I can find it?
-Is it compatiable with GW 1.1?

That's a question for Bunkerrat because I haven't looked into it... yet. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


3.
-Does anyone know where to get a milkcow mod ?
-Is it compatible with GW 1.1 ?

I haven't exploited the feature in GW myself. Once I run out of torps, I go back to base. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I stongly believe that a milkcow mod comes with GW 1.1.


4. Capital Ships.
I killed the Nelson in port with 6 torps. I found it pretty heavy, whereas I've sunk a Large Cargo 7k+ with one magnetic under the keel at a 40 degree angle.
-Does anyone feel that things are too hard to sink in GW. requiring too many torps?

As stated above, that's the beauty of the NYGM addition. The GW mod was aimed (in my opinion) to create more realism with a submarine simulation. The mod almost re-creates the random and unknown variables like it did with the German U-Boat commanders back in WWII. Personally, I did enjoy taking a IXC-40 and making two entire convoys disappear of the face of the map in the un-modded/stock version of the game. Was it fun?... for a time. Was it real? ... by all means, no. Geting over 100,000k per patrol by one U-Boat never happened in real life. So when it came time when I wanted realism in a simulation game, I looked to the GW mod.

The GW mod isn't for everyone. But if you want different kind of realism, there are other avenues that you can pursue like the IUB, or RUB mods that may (or may not) suit your playing style.


5.
- Where can I find a comprehensive list of the damage model in GW? I'd like to know where to hit of maximum damage.
-Is there a forum of a guide, help, specifically for GW?
-Where can I find the renown per ship suk in GW?

I'm not sure where to find a comprehensive list of the damage model in GW, but the Readme file that came with GW explains the NYGM addition to the GW.

The best help for GW is here in the Official SH3 forums. Most of the developers of the mod frequents this site and answers most questions regardning the GW mod and the add-ons associated with it.

To find the renown awarded for the type of ships sunk in SH3, refeer to the Community Manual.


6.
The extended GM mod by Carpico (sp?). Is it compatiable with GW 1.1?

I'm sorry, but I've been away from SH3 for quite sometime so I haven't yet heard of the Extended GW mod. I'm sure someone has and would assist you the best they can.


7. Mines!
GW has a lot of random mines around the British coast.
-Is there any way to detect them rather than detecting them on impact?
-Are these mines anti-sub mines, surface, or both (i.e is it better to be surfaced to avoid hitting a mine?)?

The best advice that I can give... and keep in mind that this is cheating... is to open your SH3 Mission Editor and print off the locations of the mines, using an available printer. Use this as a guide in and around enemy harbors and choke-points.

Mines are indiscriminate as far as a target is concerned. Surfaced, submerged... it doesn’t matter because it's instant catastrophe to any U-Boat. It's best to avoid areas suspected of being mined... period.


9.
-If you do sink a lot of military ships will you end up running into fewer of them? Can't understand destroyers, so annoying, so if you kill a lot of them will their numbers on sea be visibly reduced?

Unfortunatly, no. Just like it was in WWII, the might of the British and US industy caught up and surpassed the ammount of tonnage sunk by the Axis powers. So the game models this by spawning the same ship, patroling the same area of ocean for a set timeframe. For example: A lone V&W Destroyer can patrol BF13 from January 1941 until November 1944. So every time you start up a brand new patrol, that lone DD will be there, just like it was on your last patrol.

Sinking DD's, DE's, Corvettes ect. is pointless. Their numbers don't get reduced. You'll find out that in the later stages of the war it's quite the opposite.... their numbers increase with the introduction of dedicated "Hunter/Killer" Task Forces.



Hope that I've helped you to some degree. Good Luck and once again... welcome aboard, shipmate! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WOW. Thanks a million for the very comprehensive reply. Really appricate it. I've figured our where to hit ships now so I'm averaging 1-2 torps per kill now. Almost always 90 degree surprise hits. Thanks to all the advice from you vets.


Salute !

Still have a couple (for anyone):

-How do I open the campaighn save to print off the mines in SH3 ? I would at least like to have some idea of which areas are mined.

-The MAN engine upgrade for the VIIB, worth 1,500 renown ?

-Tips for port raiders:
*Mines NW of Loch EWE, sub net running from NE to SW, NE of Loch Ewe, Nest entry point is 1.4 km from SE shore following a 130 degree course.
*Mines dead E of Southend, out in the far sea apparoach, subnet in the NW corner of Southend harbor.