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D3dicatedSrv3rz
06-03-2018, 01:54 AM
So is she getting re-re-balanced or is she just going to stay shafted until the cycle of balancing changes comes back around in season wheneverthef***?

Or are we just going to lie to ourselves that she is balanced when there are many more brand new orochi running around than there are PK's?

Alustar.
06-03-2018, 02:54 AM
I would love it if she got a bit of attention soon. I hate that she got nerfed into the ground on everything aside from what actually made her a problem.

BTTrinity
06-03-2018, 02:56 AM
Hopefully it doesnt take long, right now theres no reason to use PK over any other assassin. Whatever she does, another can do better

UnblockableMeta
06-03-2018, 03:38 AM
She would have gotten new chains like a certain assassin if her useless bleeds didnt prevent light attacks after heavies. im still confused why the bleeds are there anymore. The trade-off should be delayed damaged for increased damage but she doesnt even do more damage than her counterparts anymore

MarshalMoriarty
06-03-2018, 04:59 AM
I'm no friend of the PK and I'd be lying if I said I didn't greet her nerf with a mix of joy and satisfaction. But in the cold light of day, its obvious that a rework cannot and should not have the end result of making that character's players miserable.

I also feel like it was just about the worst way to kick off a season, by having 1 of only reworks be a major nerf to a popular character. Surely a new season would have been better served by bringing 2-3 characters up and if you must move people down, do it mid season and in a careful, measured way. Frankly, both S6 reworks were poor imo but PK had the worst of it for sure.

So yeah, as someone who honestly hates fighting PK with all my heart, even I would support them taking another try at this. Just get it right Ubi and do something that all parties can live with. It really doesn't feel anywhere near as good to glory in her downfall as I thought it would.

Tyrjo
06-03-2018, 07:17 AM
She's fine right now. Yes, there are better assassins or other heroes, but she's still not the worst hero. I hope she's not buffed.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
06-03-2018, 12:04 PM
She's fine right now. Yes, there are better assassins or other heroes, but she's still not the worst hero. I hope she's not buffed.

The worst hero of the cast, no. The worst hero of all those that have been 'reworked', there's no contest that she is.

The_B0G_
06-03-2018, 01:13 PM
Her dodge recovery time can still make her hard to hit/corner for vanguard and heavy classes, her damage took a small nerf, but a skilled PK is still hard to deal with, she can dodge entire combo chains with ease.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
06-03-2018, 01:48 PM
Her dodge recovery time can still make her hard to hit/corner for vanguard and heavy classes, her damage took a small nerf, but a skilled PK is still hard to deal with, she can dodge entire combo chains with ease.

Dodge recovery?
-So can every other assassin after hers was normalized pre-nerf :confused:...

'Damage took a small nerf'
-41% nerf on heavy openers, 33% nerf on deep gouge 25% nerf on first zone hit 24% nerf on light openers. Largest damage nerf orochi got was 20% on 2nd light in chain

'She can dodge entire combo chains'
-Who's chains?

MarshalMoriarty
06-03-2018, 01:53 PM
Her damage reduction was too steep to be called a 'slight' reduction IMO. I find her much easier these days and my Thick Blooded Warden in particular is having a grand old time. 'Stacked Bleeds you say? Bah!'

I think the biggest advantage is the new confidence I have against her. She just doesn't evoke the same 'Oh God, its a PK' response from me anymore. We spent so long having to cope against her outrageous speed and power, that it seems a million times easier now. Sure, she still has her old tricks but its not like we've been lacking for practice against her zoneing and dodging antics.

The actual nerfs plus the boost to player confidence when facing her and the frustration for PK players at having such a big shift after potentially 5 seasons adds up to a very punishing overall drop in her game IMO. And whilst my enmity for her is deep and abiding, it cannot be right for a rework to take so much and give so little. Quite apart from power levels, reworks need to make characters exciting to play and offer new moves and opportunities like the excellent Kensei and Conq reworks.

And her rework does nothing of the sort.

David_gorda
06-03-2018, 01:55 PM
Pk is still s tier even after rework and Definetly not need a buff but more nerfs. If you cant own People with a pk then you need to practice more and learn to play.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
06-03-2018, 02:04 PM
Pk is still s tier even after rework and Definetly not need a buff but more nerfs. If you cant own People with a pk then you need to practice more and learn to play.

Excuse me ma'am, your heavy bias is showing.

Vakris_One
06-03-2018, 02:04 PM
The worst hero of the cast, no. The worst hero of all those that have been 'reworked', there's no contest that she is.
Nobushi is still the worst out of all the "reworks". She's basically at Valkyrie's level except that Valk is still set for her rework whereas Nobushi is apparently done.

PK is still viable in my opinion, they just went too far with the damage nerfs. Her side dodge attack also needs a speed increase so she isn't the only assassin that can't beat a Highlander kick/caber toss.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
06-03-2018, 02:07 PM
Nobushi is still the worst out of all the "reworks". She's basically at Valkyrie's level except that Valk is still set for her rework whereas Nobushi is apparently done.

PK is still viable in my opinion, they just went too far with the damage nerfs.

True, i did forget they touched Nobu

The_B0G_
06-03-2018, 02:15 PM
Dodge recovery?
-So can every other assassin after hers was normalized pre-nerf :confused:...

'Damage took a small nerf'
-41% nerf on heavy openers, 33% nerf on deep gouge 25% nerf on first zone hit 24% nerf on light openers. Largest damage nerf orochi got was 20% on 2nd light in chain

'She can dodge entire combo chains'
-Who's chains?

I don't know the exact numbers but none of the other assassins do I see dodge as quickly or frequently as PK.

Using any heavy classes, or vanguards, her dodge recovery is fast enough to dodge entire combo chains.

She got nerfed because she was top tier since day one. They maybe could give her a very small damage buff, but I still see lots of PKs do well. Just because she isn't as good as before, doesn't mean she isn't balanced.

Arekonator
06-03-2018, 02:19 PM
Her damage was nerfed maybe a bit too much, but her original damage numbers were stupidly high.

Alustar.
06-03-2018, 02:49 PM
I don't know the exact numbers but none of the other assassins do I see dodge as quickly or frequently as PK.

Using any heavy classes, or vanguards, her dodge recovery is fast enough to dodge entire combo chains.

She got nerfed because she was top tier since day one. They maybe could give her a very small damage buff, but I still see lots of PKs do well. Just because she isn't as good as before, doesn't mean she isn't balanced.

Vakris just told you the exact numbers of her damage nerfs. If you don't believe him you can go look at the psych notes. She is now possibly the softest hitting assassin in the roster.

I play shaman now over peacekeeper and I have an easier time dodging in and out of attacks than I do on my peacekeeper. And when I fight other peacekeepers all they do is double lights and zone. It's worse more than it was before her "rework" and the only difference in her play is now after two lights they will cancel for a quick bleed. The only time I see them using any other tool in their kit is when it's undeniably safe to dodge strike or heavy.


Her damage reduction was too steep to be called a 'slight' reduction IMO. I find her much easier these days and my Thick Blooded Warden in particular is having a grand old time. 'Stacked Bleeds you say? Bah!'

I think the biggest advantage is the new confidence I have against her. She just doesn't evoke the same 'Oh God, its a PK' response from me anymore. We spent so long having to cope against her outrageous speed and power, that it seems a million times easier now. Sure, she still has her old tricks but its not like we've been lacking for practice against her zoneing and dodging antics.

The actual nerfs plus the boost to player confidence when facing her and the frustration for PK players at having such a big shift after potentially 5 seasons adds up to a very punishing overall drop in her game IMO. And whilst my enmity for her is deep and abiding, it cannot be right for a rework to take so much and give so little. Quite apart from power levels, reworks need to make characters exciting to play and offer new moves and opportunities like the excellent Kensei and Conq reworks.

And her rework does nothing of the sort.

I admire your ability to acknowledge a poor choice from a non objective stand point, thank you.

BabaJaga.
06-03-2018, 02:58 PM
I just started with PK and i have to say , i got really hard time doing any damage. In this time 90% everybody can counter Gb so doing just one light, coz 2nd will be blacked is just really not enough. ( you guys will say you have to learn faints and staff, i now haw to faint, my point is doing any damege.)


Ty and have nice day ubisoft.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
06-03-2018, 03:08 PM
I don't know the exact numbers but none of the other assassins do I see dodge as quickly or frequently as PK.

Using any heavy classes, or vanguards, her dodge recovery is fast enough to dodge entire combo chains.

She got nerfed because she was top tier since day one. They maybe could give her a very small damage buff, but I still see lots of PKs do well. Just because she isn't as good as before, doesn't mean she isn't balanced.

All Heroes

[Adjustment] Back Dodge
Normalized all characters’ back dodge movement to 1.75m
Normalized the Back Dodge length to be 1100ms (which can be cancelled at 800ms).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970
(was not hard to find the exact numbers)

her dodge recovery is average, check your bias

perhaps we dodge so often bc our counterattacks are lackluster

'lots of PK's doing well', really? in what bracket?? half the PK's i have faced are rematches that get demolished for underestimating the effort it takes to use her, the other half being at least double digit reps who have used her for a while.

'doesn't mean she isnt balanced'

The reworks are to shift the vanilla cast on par with the dlc heroes, namely shaman. Do you honestly believe PK is balanced against shaman or even orochi for that matter, one the new light spammer and the other a feint spammer???

The_B0G_
06-03-2018, 03:43 PM
Vakris just told you the exact numbers of her damage nerfs. If you don't believe him you can go look at the psych notes. She is now possibly the softest hitting assassin in the roster.

I play shaman now over peacekeeper and I have an easier time dodging in and out of attacks than I do on my peacekeeper. And when I fight other peacekeepers all they do is double lights and zone. It's worse more than it was before her "rework" and the only difference in her play is now after two lights they will cancel for a quick bleed. The only time I see them using any other tool in their kit is when it's undeniably safe to dodge strike or heavy.



I admire your ability to acknowledge a poor choice from a non objective stand point, thank you.

I was speaking about dodge recovery timing. Not damage numbers, I acknowledged her damage might have taken too big of a hit.

Alustar.
06-03-2018, 03:58 PM
I was speaking about dodge recovery timing. Not damage numbers, I acknowledged her damage might have taken too big of a hit.

You can find that on the psych notes too. If I recall correctly they bumped get recoveries across the board but about 100ms. Granted I don't think that really applies to get dodge strike recovery, but I definitely notice a difference in that, take a match against berserker for instance, it's not as viable to dodge around him to avoid a chain of hyper armored hits. Where as when I'm running shaman, I can chain together two to three dodges bank to back and typically get off a few deflects for my effort. (Though I don't use the follow up since it's not smart to trade those strikes with a good berserker.)

The_B0G_
06-03-2018, 04:10 PM
All Heroes

[Adjustment] Back Dodge
Normalized all characters’ back dodge movement to 1.75m
Normalized the Back Dodge length to be 1100ms (which can be cancelled at 800ms).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970
(was not hard to find the exact numbers)

her dodge recovery is average, check your bias

perhaps we dodge so often bc our counterattacks are lackluster

'lots of PK's doing well', really? in what bracket?? half the PK's i have faced are rematches that get demolished for underestimating the effort it takes to use her, the other half being at least double digit reps who have used her for a while.

'doesn't mean she isnt balanced'

The reworks are to shift the vanilla cast on par with the dlc heroes, namely shaman. Do you honestly believe PK is balanced against shaman or even orochi for that matter, one the new light spammer and the other a feint spammer???

Orochi definitely needs to be tuned down a bit, he's way too fast and better than pretty much every assassin now.

I have as much difficulty against shaman as I do PK so I don't think it's as far off as you're making it out to be, maybe your bias is showing...

Also I looked up dodge recoveries and the PK is the fastest out of all classes except shaman, they are equal. Back dodge was normalized across every class to combat people and those being mostly assassin's from constantly disengaging so that means nothing in this discussion.

At what bracket you ask? High enough to be fighting lvl 3 bots any time someone quits, you only fight lvl 3 bots in the top 10 or 5% I believe. No need to be so hostile in your replies.

Could she use a very small damage buff? For sure, but she is far from weak, she can be effective and competitive. It was a big nerf to her damage but it was too high before, thats probably why to most people who mained her she feels so weak now. Like I said though, that doesn't mean she's unbalanced.


https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6li63y/all_character_frame_data_excluding_dlc_characters/

BlowHard74728
06-03-2018, 04:30 PM
Pk's side dodge recover was and is still nerfed to 600ms.
Every other assasin has 500ms so yes pk is slower at dodging and getting out of combo moves.

She has the worst deflect game, and the worst damage output and nothing to open people up with if theyre competent enough to block her lights.

So how is she still considered on par with shaman or any other assasin?

Arekonator
06-03-2018, 04:34 PM
All assassins with sole exception of shaman got 600ms dodge recovery, so PK is now on their level.

BlowHard74728
06-03-2018, 04:39 PM
All assassins with sole exception of shaman got 600ms dodge recovery, so PK is now on their level.

Okay thank you I missed that part

The_B0G_
06-03-2018, 04:40 PM
Pk's side dodge recover was and is still nerfed to 600ms.
Every other assasin has 500ms so yes pk is slower at dodging and getting out of combo moves.

She has the worst deflect game, and the worst damage output and nothing to open people up with if theyre competent enough to block her lights.

So how is she still considered on par with shaman or any other hero?

Only the shaman has 500ms side dodge recovery. I wasn't aware PKs side dodge recovery was nerfed lately. A small damage buff would probably be all she needs though.

The more reworks that give characters 400ms light attacks, the more rebalancing on other classes will be needed. So they can either nerf those like Orochi and the Shaman, or continue to fiddle with the rest of the cast trying to find balance.

With so much hyper armor coming into the game, a lot of the deflects are becoming useless, not just PKs.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
06-03-2018, 04:43 PM
Orochi definitely needs to be tuned down a bit, he's way too fast and better than pretty much every assassin now.

I have as much difficulty against shaman as I do PK so I don't think it's as far off as you're making it out to be, maybe your bias is showing...

Also I looked up dodge recoveries and the PK is the fastest out of all classes except shaman, they are equal. Back dodge was normalized across every class to combat people and those being mostly assassin's from constantly disengaging so that means nothing in this discussion.

At what bracket you ask? High enough to be fighting lvl 3 bots any time someone quits, you only fight lvl 3 bots in the top 10 or 5% I believe. No need to be so hostile in your replies.

Could she use a very small damage buff? For sure, but she is far from weak, she can be effective and competitive. It was a big nerf to her damage but it was too high before, thats probably why to most people who mained her she feels so weak now. Like I said though, that doesn't mean she's unbalanced.


https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6li63y/all_character_frame_data_excluding_dlc_characters/

pretty sure those stats are outdated if it still says PK has a 17 damage light open and a 20 dmg zone first

The_B0G_
06-03-2018, 04:54 PM
pretty sure those stats are outdated if it still says PK has a 17 damage light open and a 20 dmg zone first

Yeah I was more or so looking at just the dodge recovery numbers, didn't realize they nerfed her side dodge recovery. That doesn't make sense to do, seeing as Shaman has 500 ms recovery still.

Alustar.
06-03-2018, 05:44 PM
The main issue I have with the changes to PK are that everything that was done only reinforces players to rely on her light spam and zone. And even those have been nerfed. Even the stabbing of bleed damage does little to mitigate the lose of her kit due to get dodge strikes and feints not being as reliable as they should.
As it has been stated before the reworks were intended to bring the vanilla roster up to the new standard set by the dlc heroes, and that is not the case with the peacekeeper.

UnblockableMeta
06-03-2018, 07:02 PM
The main issue I have with the changes to PK are that everything that was done only reinforces players to rely on her light spam and zone. And even those have been nerfed. Even the stabbing of bleed damage does little to mitigate the lose of her kit due to get dodge strikes and feints not being as reliable as they should.
As it has been stated before the reworks were intended to bring the vanilla roster up to the new standard set by the dlc heroes, and that is not the case with the peacekeeper.

They made a huge deal of stacking bleeds like it was going to matter so much. Sadly im still waiting for 2 GB triple stabs to stack. PK's feint game was a mix of recycled feints better used by the cast that first had them: Heavy-light feint, better on kensei and sooomuch better on shaman with the direction not locked, dodge cancels are better on everyone else that has them bc PK's cant be delayed (however slight) and can initiate a chain (as well as certain cast getting un-dodge-ables), GB cancel soft feints are really only effective at catching a lot of dodging opponents mainly due to someone getting out of an Unblock-able (Warden vortex, Shamans left, kensei's top etc. Why they thought this would be useful on PK and why it didnt even work outside of neutral originally is beyond me.

Alustar.
06-03-2018, 07:24 PM
Yeah the biggest problem I have with peacekeeper now and before was her dagger cancel, before it came from the same side as your initial heavy. They change it to now only come from top stance which is just as predictable.
It really seems like everything they did was to squelch the players opposed to her claiming she was OP. While I maintain that she was far from OP, that doesn't mean I didn't agree that aspects of her kit were problematic. But she didn't deserve this treatment, and I still have no reason to go back to her. I'd rather play shaman or even go so far as to learn to run orochi, because let's face it, his light chain is ridiculous. He's pretty much PK 2.0 with a three hit light chain and a zone that rivals the PK.

PanzerShrekonin
06-03-2018, 08:03 PM
Yea. Shes fine as she is. She does not need any attention at this time. There are FAR worse heroes that the current peacekeeper.

BabaJaga.
06-03-2018, 11:46 PM
She is not fine, and yes she need a lot of attantion.

KotoKuraken
06-04-2018, 01:08 AM
Yea. Shes fine as she is. She does not need any attention at this time. There are FAR worse heroes that the current peacekeeper.

You said this on previous threads, but still never gave any reason why. The thing is, Ubi made these changes to her out of the blue, they put her here instead of buffing those other heroes up.

They nerfed her damage down and got rid of her ridiculous recovery and distance, but they never gave her anything in return except a bug fix. Orochi is now just as fast as PK, with more damage, more tools, and a lower stamina cost. At this point, that makes PK an Orochi but weaker, with less tools, and also has to wait for her opponent to die even after applying lethal damage. Fights drag on way too long with PK

PanzerShrekonin
06-04-2018, 01:48 AM
You said this on previous threads, but still never gave any reason why. The thing is, Ubi made these changes to her out of the blue, they put her here instead of buffing those other heroes up.

They nerfed her damage down and got rid of her ridiculous recovery and distance, but they never gave her anything in return except a bug fix. Orochi is now just as fast as PK, with more damage, more tools, and a lower stamina cost. At this point, that makes PK an Orochi but weaker, with less tools, and also has to wait for her opponent to die even after applying lethal damage. Fights drag on way too long with PK

Im not saying Peacekeeper doesn't need to be touched up a bit more. HOWEVER, there are WAAAAAAY more people who need it more than she does. She's not terrible as she is now. Yea, shes alot worse than what she was, but what she was was broken.

Sure, Orochi and Shaman... actualyl even berserker, are much better than PK in my opinion, but thats because all three of them are in a REALLY good spot right now. HOWEVER.

I will say this again. She does not need to be a priority for the balance team in the near future. Most of the cast, even the DLC cast needs the help first.

Heres a list of what really needs the help:

Lawbringer, Warden, Centurion, ((Raider maybe? I dont think he needs that much of a rework honestly. )) Warlord, VALKAYRIE, Shugoki... Oh god Shuygoki needs it and Aramarsuha can use it. Edit: I forgot about the Nobu. Im not entirely sure she needs to be the priority either but she could probably use it more than Peacekeeper. Peacekeeper isn't terrible now. She's just not the stomper she was before.

All of these needs it more than Peacekeeper does right now. We honestly need to see the stats for Season 6((or 5?))) for PK's new stastitics for winning in duels.

I can post season 4 but it wont be 100% accurate of the current except for the non reworked characters.

Peacekeeper was top three in season 4. It was Shaman, PK and Lawbringer, though parry changes made lawbringer worse apparently???

BadBOO17
06-04-2018, 02:05 AM
Nope she balanced. We dont need every single assassin being god tier characters. Shes actually a step in the right direction of taking S tier characters and having them more inline with the rest of the characters. Shes a high B low A tier character what more could you want?

KotoKuraken
06-04-2018, 02:07 AM
Im not saying Peacekeeper doesn't need to be touched up a bit more. HOWEVER, there are WAAAAAAY more people who need it more than she does. She's not terrible as she is now. Yea, shes alot worse than what she was, but what she was was broken.

Sure, Orochi and Shaman... actualyl even berserker, are much better than PK in my opinion, but thats because all three of them are in a REALLY good spot right now. HOWEVER.

I will say this again. She does not need to be a priority for the balance team in the near future. Most of the cast, even the DLC cast needs the help first.

Heres a list of what really needs the help:

Lawbringer, Warden, Centurion, ((Raider maybe? I dont think he needs that much of a rework honestly. )) Warlord, VALKAYRIE, Shugoki... Oh god Shuygoki needs it and Aramarsuha can use it. Edit: I forgot about the Nobu. Im not entirely sure she needs to be the priority either but she could probably use it more than Peacekeeper. Peacekeeper isn't terrible now. She's just not the stomper she was before.

All of these needs it more than Peacekeeper does right now. We honestly need to see the stats for Season 6((or 5?))) for PK's new stastitics for winning in duels.

I can post season 4 but it wont be 100% accurate of the current except for the non reworked characters.

Peacekeeper was top three in season 4. It was Shaman, PK and Lawbringer, though parry changes made lawbringer worse apparently???

Peacekeeper was still top in Season 5, but that data chart isn't accurate for her this season. This season, she's probably much much lower. According to the duel data chart for Season 5, Valk and Nobushi would need the most attention (Valk and Nobu have damage and confirmation issues). Glad was also down there, but I think he would just need a few tweaks with his recoveries to get him back up. I believe they already confirmed they're working on Shugoki if I remember from Twitter correctly. A change for Lawbringer would definitely be nice, especially since they are teasing us with that polearm on the Season 6 logo.He didn't really get worse with the parry changes, it's just that new reworks and heroes are getting better utility, and Lawbringer relies on parries to deal his damage since his shove from neutral doesn't confirm anything and his shove on block is just there to be annoying and push people away menacingly.

I can agree with all of those heroes needing some sort of attention. But the thing is, nerfing a character and not following up with them to see how well the changes worked in meeting their intended goal is like giving someone a pie, scooping out all the filling to just leave the crust, and telling them it's still just as good.because they left a cherry in the empty shell.

PanzerShrekonin
06-04-2018, 02:11 AM
Peacekeeper was still top in Season 5, but that data chart isn't accurate for her this season. This season, she's probably much much lower. According to the duel data chart for Season 5, Valk and Nobushi would need the most attention (Valk and Nobu have damage and confirmation issues). Glad was also down there, but I think he would just need a few tweaks with his recoveries to get him back up. I believe they already confirmed they're working on Shugoki if I remember from Twitter correctly. A change for Lawbringer would definitely be nice, especially since they are teasing us with that polearm on the Season 6 logo.He didn't really get worse with the parry changes, it's just that new reworks and heroes are getting better utility, and Lawbringer relies on parries to deal his damage since his shove from neutral doesn't confirm anything and his shove on block is just there to be annoying and push people away menacingly.

I can agree with all of those heroes needing some sort of attention. But the thing is, nerfing a character and not following up with them to see how well the changes worked in meeting their intended goal is like giving someone a pie, scooping out all the filling to just leave the crust, and telling them it's still just as good.because they left a cherry in the empty shell.


Ok but its WAY too early to actually tell if PK REALLY needs to be buffed a bit. People are used to curbstomping the entire cast as peacekeeper that now they might have to work a bit harder for it. That's how I see it. I just looked at the Season 4 stats and she was number 1 actualyl, which was weird. I thought Shaman was but apparently PK was even better.

We need to wait. I am not saying PK doesn't need to be looked at, cause I dont play her. I refuse to play FOTM curbstompers. I prefer to play what I find cool.


But thats not the point. It's too early. PK just recently got changed. It's time for them to work on the others and then if PK IS in a bad spot, which I HIGHLY doubt, then they can give her some nudges. It's too early.

KotoKuraken
06-04-2018, 05:31 AM
Ok but its WAY too early to actually tell if PK REALLY needs to be buffed a bit. People are used to curbstomping the entire cast as peacekeeper that now they might have to work a bit harder for it. That's how I see it. I just looked at the Season 4 stats and she was number 1 actualyl, which was weird. I thought Shaman was but apparently PK was even better.

We need to wait. I am not saying PK doesn't need to be looked at, cause I dont play her. I refuse to play FOTM curbstompers. I prefer to play what I find cool.


But thats not the point. It's too early. PK just recently got changed. It's time for them to work on the others and then if PK IS in a bad spot, which I HIGHLY doubt, then they can give her some nudges. It's too early.

It's not too early to tell, it's already noticeable how much she is failing. The reasons why she was so OP was because her heavy + bleed combo did more damage than a Raider heavy, and she had a very recoverable backdodge with an insane amount of distance on it.

She got both of those taken away from her, being that she has no good way of getting out of trouble now and she has half the damage she used to have. She is labelled as a counter attack but has none of the countering tools. Orochi and Berserker both have light attacks that are as fast as her soft feints, which completely negates out her only "tool". Having bleed stack isn't something to boast about, because it's like dealing lethal damage, but you gotta wait a whole bunch of time before the last half of their health bar goes down, making you really work to kill the person you already killed.

Orochi has what she has, but with more damage and more tools. The whole reason why I started playing her was she was promised to be balanced and fun to play once the rework was put in place, so I picked her up for her upcoming QoL changes to make her less spammy and more fair. She's not balanced, she's severely lacking, to the point where she feels like a short-ranged Nobushi, except I don't have a kick, don't have a unique bleed mechanic, and don't have a proper counter dodge mechanic.

PanzerShrekonin
06-04-2018, 05:54 AM
It's not too early to tell, it's already noticeable how much she is failing. The reasons why she was so OP was because her heavy + bleed combo did more damage than a Raider heavy, and she had a very recoverable backdodge with an insane amount of distance on it.

She got both of those taken away from her, being that she has no good way of getting out of trouble now and she has half the damage she used to have. She is labelled as a counter attack but has none of the countering tools. Orochi and Berserker both have light attacks that are as fast as her soft feints, which completely negates out her only "tool". Having bleed stack isn't something to boast about, because it's like dealing lethal damage, but you gotta wait a whole bunch of time before the last half of their health bar goes down, making you really work to kill the person you already killed.

Orochi has what she has, but with more damage and more tools. The whole reason why I started playing her was she was promised to be balanced and fun to play once the rework was put in place, so I picked her up for her upcoming QoL changes to make her less spammy and more fair. She's not balanced, she's severely lacking, to the point where she feels like a short-ranged Nobushi, except I don't have a kick, don't have a unique bleed mechanic, and don't have a proper counter dodge mechanic.

Ok so... you think she is failing because she's not what you expected? It's way too early to tell how far she has fallen compared to her number 1 spot she's had since launch. And yes, she actualyl was better than the Shaman by two percent. Though this was Season 4. Parry changes and all that. PK is still top 3 regarldess.

I dont think she's dipped as far as you guys are claiming. I dont think she has even reached how bad Centurion has been since... well I dont know. Season 3?

I dont think she has even reached the below half the cast in terms of her ability. I don't doubt she's fallen out of the top three, but top five? I think shes up there still.

Berserker, Orochi, Shaman, PK and... Hell Conquerer I'd think. All of them are probably the top five here and now.

Sure, it may not be fun to play the PK now, but I dont think she's dropped as far as people here are claiming. But ive never once played PK outside of the story mode, so I don't know. All I know is. she was beyond unbalanced for over a year. She was unbalanced in Beta actually and it took them this long to "Fix" her. Honestly, I hgate the peacekeeper even now. She still has fast lights and I still struggle, though not as much as I used to. Thats for sure.



Again, too early to tell HOW FAR she has fallen. There are much more characters who need help who are still behind the current PK.

MarshalMoriarty
06-04-2018, 06:19 AM
I think the statement 'she may not be fun to play now , but...' should be more than enough to convey the problem. Their 2 stated goals were to rebalance her and make her a more rounded and satisfying character to play. But the above statement makes it clear they haven't done that.

So instead of moving onto other heroes and all the new joy and outrage those will cause, it would be better to finish the job with PK (and Orochi frankly, but that's for another thread). Get it done properly so both characters can be considered fun, viable and more or less acceptable to their players and opponents, or it will simply be unfinished business that will irritate and polarize until they finally do address it.

Its a needless distraction and when they get round to reworking Valk, Lawbro, Warden et al, I would prefer these PK issues to have been put to bed so they can concentrate on those tasks. One job (or set of jobs) at a time is the only sensible way to do it. Don't leave unfinished work, don't leave open wounds to fester etc.

KotoKuraken
06-04-2018, 06:45 AM
Ok so... you think she is failing because she's not what you expected? It's way too early to tell how far she has fallen compared to her number 1 spot she's had since launch. And yes, she actualyl was better than the Shaman by two percent. Though this was Season 4. Parry changes and all that. PK is still top 3 regarldess.

I dont think she's dipped as far as you guys are claiming. I dont think she has even reached how bad Centurion has been since... well I dont know. Season 3?

I dont think she has even reached the below half the cast in terms of her ability. I don't doubt she's fallen out of the top three, but top five? I think shes up there still.

Berserker, Orochi, Shaman, PK and... Hell Conquerer I'd think. All of them are probably the top five here and now.

Sure, it may not be fun to play the PK now, but I dont think she's dropped as far as people here are claiming. But ive never once played PK outside of the story mode, so I don't know. All I know is. she was beyond unbalanced for over a year. She was unbalanced in Beta actually and it took them this long to "Fix" her. Honestly, I hgate the peacekeeper even now. She still has fast lights and I still struggle, though not as much as I used to. Thats for sure.



Again, too early to tell HOW FAR she has fallen. There are much more characters who need help who are still behind the current PK.

Yes, I know she was number 1 in Season 4. But that's not now. She was #2 in Season 5. But that's not now.

I doubt very much that PK or Orochi are in the top 5 characters. Orochi's good, but he still sucks against the heroes he sucked against before except PK.

Was PK what I expected? Of course not; I expected her to be viable. She's not viable. Playing against her is a breeze, I haven't had a single problem with any PK since her rework. Playing as PK, it's a pain; it takes so long to kill someone, yet I'm able to easily kill PK with every other hero I've picked so far (Warden, Conq, Lawbro, Orochi, Shugoki)..

In order to really feel how bad she is, you'd have to play her yourself, try to learn her. Sure you can win with her, but you will definitely have to put in as much effort as pre-rework Orochi. And trust me, I know all about how bad pre-rework Orochi was.

PanzerShrekonin
06-04-2018, 07:22 AM
Yes, I know she was number 1 in Season 4. But that's not now. She was #2 in Season 5. But that's not now.

I doubt very much that PK or Orochi are in the top 5 characters. Orochi's good, but he still sucks against the heroes he sucked against before except PK.

Was PK what I expected? Of course not; I expected her to be viable. She's not viable. Playing against her is a breeze, I haven't had a single problem with any PK since her rework. Playing as PK, it's a pain; it takes so long to kill someone, yet I'm able to easily kill PK with every other hero I've picked so far (Warden, Conq, Lawbro, Orochi, Shugoki)..

In order to really feel how bad she is, you'd have to play her yourself, try to learn her. Sure you can win with her, but you will definitely have to put in as much effort as pre-rework Orochi. And trust me, I know all about how bad pre-rework Orochi was.

So basically, like most of the god damn cast? I know about putting my god damn work in. I played Prework Kensei, Centurion, Warden. I play Shugoki for Christs sake. I know about putting my work in. Why should she be a breeze to play like before?

It shouldn't be easy to play her.


However, we don't know what is top five, but there is no way PK dropped from number 2 to be worse than most of the cast. There is no god damn way shes worse than the Warden is. Look,l I dont want to play her. I despise her and everytime I see her, I actually play dirty. Granted, Shaman is also on that list that I play dirty against. When I play brawl, which is my favorite gamemode, I play it like most people do. Like 2 v 2 duels.

However, everyime I see a shaman or PK, I just play it like its a all out brawl. No forgiveness. The character enraged me for over a year. So i'm not looking forward to any buff to give her cause considering Ubisofts track record, they'd overbuff her and she'd be back to being the cancer. I actually started hating the people who played her and had 10+ reps in her because I had to wonder, what kind of person plays something so overpowered religiously.

PanzerShrekonin
06-04-2018, 07:24 AM
I think the statement 'she may not be fun to play now , but...' should be more than enough to convey the problem. Their 2 stated goals were to rebalance her and make her a more rounded and satisfying character to play. But the above statement makes it clear they haven't done that.

So instead of moving onto other heroes and all the new joy and outrage those will cause, it would be better to finish the job with PK (and Orochi frankly, but that's for another thread). Get it done properly so both characters can be considered fun, viable and more or less acceptable to their players and opponents, or it will simply be unfinished business that will irritate and polarize until they finally do address it.

Its a needless distraction and when they get round to reworking Valk, Lawbro, Warden et al, I would prefer these PK issues to have been put to bed so they can concentrate on those tasks. One job (or set of jobs) at a time is the only sensible way to do it. Don't leave unfinished work, don't leave open wounds to fester etc.

What would be satisfying? Like, what exactly would make her satisifying to play?

Like, I know what I want out of my favorite character, Centurion, but they wouldn't be able to do that. I want him sword and shiled cause roman empire. Duh.

I mean I can easily think of ways for his sword and fist to work out but im not a dev so nothing I say will even matter so I dont try.

But im curious what would make PK satisifying, cause her previous state was atrociously cancerous to fight against.

BadBOO17
06-04-2018, 06:33 PM
What would be satisfying? Like, what exactly would make her satisifying to play?

Like, I know what I want out of my favorite character, Centurion, but they wouldn't be able to do that. I want him sword and shiled cause roman empire. Duh.

I mean I can easily think of ways for his sword and fist to work out but im not a dev so nothing I say will even matter so I dont try.

But im curious what would make PK satisifying, cause her previous state was atrociously cancerous to fight against.

Pk users wont be satisfied until shes back to an S tier hero that can stomp everyone and everything they come across. Thats all that matters to them.

MarshalMoriarty
06-05-2018, 12:40 AM
Ubi themselves are the ones who stated this was their aim. They admitted that power wise, she was doing great already and as I've stated many times I'm definately no supporter of her staying how she was. But even though they said this and correctly identified that it was largely down to a very small element of her kit and her damage numbers, they then failed to achieve their aim of making her whole kit viable or making her less 1 note.

By not improving her kit, they essentially just left her to keep doing what she always does, but half as well. It might be great for her opponents (and at Rep 70 now, I use 12 of the 18 heroes fairly equally, but I've never used PK outside of that 1 Story mission so I'm definately an opponent here), its just bad design to nobble a character like this without giving something in trade to soften the blow.

They knew what they had to do (make her less cancerous but more multi faceted , more engaging to play with and against) and said as much when it was first unveiled. The problem is that they just *said* it and didn't *do* it.

KotoKuraken
06-05-2018, 06:33 AM
So basically, like most of the god damn cast? I know about putting my god damn work in. I played Prework Kensei, Centurion, Warden. I play Shugoki for Christs sake. I know about putting my work in. Why should she be a breeze to play like before?

It shouldn't be easy to play her.


However, we don't know what is top five, but there is no way PK dropped from number 2 to be worse than most of the cast. There is no god damn way shes worse than the Warden is. Look,l I dont want to play her. I despise her and everytime I see her, I actually play dirty. Granted, Shaman is also on that list that I play dirty against. When I play brawl, which is my favorite gamemode, I play it like most people do. Like 2 v 2 duels.

However, everyime I see a shaman or PK, I just play it like its a all out brawl. No forgiveness. The character enraged me for over a year. So i'm not looking forward to any buff to give her cause considering Ubisofts track record, they'd overbuff her and she'd be back to being the cancer. I actually started hating the people who played her and had 10+ reps in her because I had to wonder, what kind of person plays something so overpowered religiously.

She has no bash, unlike Warden who can guarantee 24-25 damage. She has no OOS game, unlike Warden, who can keep you OOS and punish you with bash and damage until he runs OOS. She has the same backdodge as everyone else, so she can easily get gb'd like everyone else. She has no unblockables, bashes, counters, or gimmicks that make her good.

I've been playing as Warden recently, he's not that hard to win with, he's actually got good damage output because he has good damage and a better bash than Lawbro (since he can cancel his bash into gb and confirm 24-25 damage) or Conq. (because again, more damage, and can cancel into a gb). I've been playing Valk before and after the PK rework, and even she can do more damage than PK, the only awkward thing with Valk is having to do 2 lights to get anywhere, but she can still outdamage PK. Nobushi is basically PK, but has a bash, and more range, and a counter tool, and has a unique bleed mechanic, as well as super quick side heavies.

I've played those heroes at the bottom, I've played them before and after PK's rework. I know how they feel. And they feel much stronger than PK right now