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XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 06:48 PM
Probally will suck but they always come up with eyecandy.

<img src=http://www.freewebs.com/leadspitter/avg.txt>

The Flying Tigers
One of the greatest success stories of World War II began before the war officially began, with a group of poorly equipped American volunteer fighter pilots sent to defend China against the threatening Japanese Empire. The American Volunteer Group (AVG) was politically unpopular when training began in September of 1941, but within months the group gained worldwide renown as The Flying Tigers, a tight band of hard-living men who performed legendary feats in the skies.

The pilots of the AVG were incredibly successful at repelling Japanese air attacks at the beginning of World War II, when Allied triumphs were few and far between. Tales of their wild exploits, both in their shark-toothed P-40 Tomahawks and on the ground, became a source of inspiration for all of America.

The air combat record of the Flying Tigers has never been rivaled by a group of its size. In 10 weeks of air battles over Burma and Thailand, the 100 AVG pilots encountered over 1,000 enemy planes. They shot down 217 Japanese aircraft and heavily damaged 43 more, while losing only six pilots and 16 planes of their own. Their exceptional accomplishments were soon the basis for outlandish rumors, and tales spread of AVG pilots using the wings of their sturdy fighters to slice the wings off flimsy Japanese Zeros. At the time, the truth or falsehood of these stories was not as important as the inspiration they provided to the Allies.

The AVG was the brainchild of Claire L. Chennault, a retired Air Corps Major who served as a special advisor to the Chinese Air Force. Chennault had a remarkable understanding of the region, having served there since 1937, and he knew the importance of air superiority. The island nation of Japan was naturally resistant to direct attack, but its vital oceanic supply lines were vulnerable from the air. The Chinese, suffering from increasingly aggressive Japanese air raids, needed help to turn back Japan's offensives and put pressure on their supply lines.

Even before the United States declared war with Japan, Chennault convinced the U.S. to release some pilots from service so they could voluntarily join the "non-military" AVG. About 100 pilots and 200 ground crew were assembled. Pay ranged from $250 to $750 per month, but there was a rumored $500 bonus for every Japanese plane that was destroyed. The rumor turned out to be true.

Procuring warplanes at a time when virtually every nation was increasing their defenses proved difficult. The AVG settled for 100 older-model Curtiss-Wright P-40B Tomahawks, an order picked up from Great Britain, who bought newer planes instead. These sturdy Tomahawk aircraft were proven combat fighters, but they had no attachment points for bombs or extra fuel tanks, and the men of the AVG would be forced to build their own primitive gunsights.

The airfield facilities were even more basic. China used its ample labor force to build many airfields, but they were far from technologically advanced. Repairs were made outdoors in the buggy heat, and by flashlight at night. Parts were reused, repaired, and rebuilt again and again. Engines were hauled out of the planes using ropes slung from trees, and tail wheel tires were stuffed with rags when they could no longer be patched to hold air.

The Chinese also built a ragged network of telephones, telegraph wires, sirens and radios that formed a far-flung and surprisingly effective air raid network. These simple systems supported the most successful small combat air group in history.

Once assembled, the AVG gathered in a schoolhouse for intensive chalkboard training by Chennault himself. Each pilot received 72 hours of training in Japanese flight tactics and regional geography, followed by 60 hours of flight training. The Japanese flew nimble Zero fighters, and could not be approached with the same tactics used against German fighter pilots. This thorough understanding of the enemy's behavior, motivation, and weaknesses allowed the AVG to dominate the air from the start.

The Flying Tigers were not on the scene for long but their effective methods of curbing Japanese attacks would increase Allied morale and influence the course of the war in the Pacific. They disbanded at midnight on July 4, 1942, after shooting down five enemy planes on their last day. In total, The Flying Tigers were responsible for destroying about 450 Japanese planes in seven months time, losing only 12 of their own planes in combat.

http://www.eagames.com/official/moh_alliedassault/editorial.jsp?src=junenewsletter_01


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter



Message Edited on 06/26/0305:49PM by LeadSpitter_

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 06:48 PM
Probally will suck but they always come up with eyecandy.

<img src=http://www.freewebs.com/leadspitter/avg.txt>

The Flying Tigers
One of the greatest success stories of World War II began before the war officially began, with a group of poorly equipped American volunteer fighter pilots sent to defend China against the threatening Japanese Empire. The American Volunteer Group (AVG) was politically unpopular when training began in September of 1941, but within months the group gained worldwide renown as The Flying Tigers, a tight band of hard-living men who performed legendary feats in the skies.

The pilots of the AVG were incredibly successful at repelling Japanese air attacks at the beginning of World War II, when Allied triumphs were few and far between. Tales of their wild exploits, both in their shark-toothed P-40 Tomahawks and on the ground, became a source of inspiration for all of America.

The air combat record of the Flying Tigers has never been rivaled by a group of its size. In 10 weeks of air battles over Burma and Thailand, the 100 AVG pilots encountered over 1,000 enemy planes. They shot down 217 Japanese aircraft and heavily damaged 43 more, while losing only six pilots and 16 planes of their own. Their exceptional accomplishments were soon the basis for outlandish rumors, and tales spread of AVG pilots using the wings of their sturdy fighters to slice the wings off flimsy Japanese Zeros. At the time, the truth or falsehood of these stories was not as important as the inspiration they provided to the Allies.

The AVG was the brainchild of Claire L. Chennault, a retired Air Corps Major who served as a special advisor to the Chinese Air Force. Chennault had a remarkable understanding of the region, having served there since 1937, and he knew the importance of air superiority. The island nation of Japan was naturally resistant to direct attack, but its vital oceanic supply lines were vulnerable from the air. The Chinese, suffering from increasingly aggressive Japanese air raids, needed help to turn back Japan's offensives and put pressure on their supply lines.

Even before the United States declared war with Japan, Chennault convinced the U.S. to release some pilots from service so they could voluntarily join the "non-military" AVG. About 100 pilots and 200 ground crew were assembled. Pay ranged from $250 to $750 per month, but there was a rumored $500 bonus for every Japanese plane that was destroyed. The rumor turned out to be true.

Procuring warplanes at a time when virtually every nation was increasing their defenses proved difficult. The AVG settled for 100 older-model Curtiss-Wright P-40B Tomahawks, an order picked up from Great Britain, who bought newer planes instead. These sturdy Tomahawk aircraft were proven combat fighters, but they had no attachment points for bombs or extra fuel tanks, and the men of the AVG would be forced to build their own primitive gunsights.

The airfield facilities were even more basic. China used its ample labor force to build many airfields, but they were far from technologically advanced. Repairs were made outdoors in the buggy heat, and by flashlight at night. Parts were reused, repaired, and rebuilt again and again. Engines were hauled out of the planes using ropes slung from trees, and tail wheel tires were stuffed with rags when they could no longer be patched to hold air.

The Chinese also built a ragged network of telephones, telegraph wires, sirens and radios that formed a far-flung and surprisingly effective air raid network. These simple systems supported the most successful small combat air group in history.

Once assembled, the AVG gathered in a schoolhouse for intensive chalkboard training by Chennault himself. Each pilot received 72 hours of training in Japanese flight tactics and regional geography, followed by 60 hours of flight training. The Japanese flew nimble Zero fighters, and could not be approached with the same tactics used against German fighter pilots. This thorough understanding of the enemy's behavior, motivation, and weaknesses allowed the AVG to dominate the air from the start.

The Flying Tigers were not on the scene for long but their effective methods of curbing Japanese attacks would increase Allied morale and influence the course of the war in the Pacific. They disbanded at midnight on July 4, 1942, after shooting down five enemy planes on their last day. In total, The Flying Tigers were responsible for destroying about 450 Japanese planes in seven months time, losing only 12 of their own planes in combat.

http://www.eagames.com/official/moh_alliedassault/editorial.jsp?src=junenewsletter_01


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter



Message Edited on 06/26/0305:49PM by LeadSpitter_

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 06:51 PM
Not getting it.


<img src=http://www.Super-Guppy.Com/jg2899.jpg>
Executive Officer- I./JG28

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 06:57 PM
Don't know if I trust EA after Spearhead.

MOHAA was an excellent game and I LOVED it.
Then came the pathetic cash grab of Spearhead /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

We will see.

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</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 07:13 PM
nah spearhead was pretty good, you just need to download alot of maps, only think i didnt like was the german rpg rifle. I still play every now and then in [STRIPES] squad

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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 07:44 PM
Can you imagine a real Flying Tiger sim? How many flyable planes? What would you do with "it"? Dogfight against Zero. Oh the weeping and pulling of teeth. Won't last. Unless Oleg steals the idea, and adds I~16/I~15X (and a map). Early I~15s did pretty good early on, before the Claude's got there.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:10 PM
well...as long as those P40's dont blow up in mid air/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif for no reason i might give it a try..i too am a big MOHAA fan..

S!
CYRUS
MOHACES.ORG

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:24 PM
- Japanese flew nimble Zero fighters,

They certainly did, but not against the AVG at all if I remember correctly, who mostly fought Ki-27 Nates and Ki-43 Oscars.

OK, I know its only a press release. I will certainly look out for reviews of it when released as it is a fascinating subject.

-------------------------------------

"It should always be remembered.that air power was only an auxiliary on the eastern front. The air war moved forward and backward with the front. It was the Red Army, drawing on air power for artillery cover of greater accuracy and decisiveness than was possible from the ground, that drove the German armies across Central Europe".

Professor Richard Overy, The Air War 1939-1945

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:27 PM
Let's cross fingers and hope it'll be good. I'd just love to fly for the flying tigers!

Nic

http://nicolas10.freeservers.com/images/et.jpg


OK I -->[]

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:53 PM
AVG did fight against Zeros but the majority of aerial opposition they faced was from Type 96 and 97 fighters.
Can't judge this sim yet, but from EA its probably going to be silly, like The Sims.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:57 PM
Electronic Arts?

heh

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 09:05 PM
There was a time when EA actually made some very good flight sims. Most notably is the Janes Combat Simulation series. This includes greats such as Longbow, Longbow 2, World War 2 fighters, F-15, F-18 and others that I can't name off hand. I hope that EA returns to making flight sims so we have some choice as to what we play, instead of having to accept whatever Oleg decides to do.

----------------------------------------
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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

ShadowHawk__
06-26-2003, 09:19 PM
Since they canned Janes I wouldn't expect any good sims out of EA. Not to mention this seems to have some sort of tie with MOH, I don't see exactly what they're doing here.

"Tales of their wild exploits, both in their shark-toothed P-40 Tomahawks and on the ground, became a source of inspiration for all of America."

Now something tells me this isn't even going to be a flight sim...

-Death From Above

Message Edited on 06/26/0302:22PM by ShadowHawk__

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 09:27 PM
ShadowHawk__ wrote:
Not to mention this seems to have some sort of tie with MOH, -



That would be cool then we could straffe the poor suckers running around on the ground



"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman. It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. They were made to fly as wingman, instead."
Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann "Karaya One"

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 09:46 PM
OT, but speaking of Medal of Honor, I see a new expansion pack called Breakthrough in this months edition of PC Gamer!

"Never pet a burning dog."

P4 2.4 Ghz
1 Gig DDR 2100
PNY GF4 Ti4200 64 MB
SB Live! 5.1
Saitek X-45

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 10:19 PM
Actualy Guys,
With the 2 Japanese fighters being modeled for FB, because the Zero will enter FB in particular I started researching Pacific War History.
The Coops I am creating will be for individual Squad versus Squad Wars.
I will be creating a down load site so that the individual Squad members can pre down load the Skins for the Coops into their folders before the 2 Squads meet in combat.
That way when the 2 Squads meet Online to fight, they do not need skin down load turned on, as the Coop Mission they down load will automaticly select the skins from each players folders, and each player in the game will have the Historic Pacific Skin view in game, with out the in game lag associated with skin down load, even if the new FB patch improoves connectivity, why compromise that connectivity in an organised Squad versus Squad War ?

What I was looking for was a Historicaly accurate Aircraft Match ups, and then Maps already contained in FB, that had some characteristics of Areas in this theatre
Then I went looking for other aircraft types already in FB that if using Japanese or USA skins where close matches to aircraft used in the Pacific by either side.
I also then took into account other Aircraft being modeled for FB that also took part in the Pacific, and that also flew in this particular area

Here is the Work in progress so far,
The Kuban Map mountain ranges enable me to recreate the New Guinea Campaign in the South Pacfic in 1942.
Where the 75th Squadron RAAF ( Royal Australian Airforce) Flew in the face of Japanese Air Superiority to defend Port Moresby, from attack from Japanese Airbases at Lae on the other side of the Owen Stanley Ranges (Kuban Map) and from Rabaul on New Britain Island (out of Range so no need to imitate on map)
The Elite Tianan wing flying Zeros was based at Lae, and Saburo Sakai was with them.
The 75th Squadron RAAF was flying P40-E and was later relieved by the 8th Fighter Group 35th and 36th Squadrons flying P39s .
During the defence of Port Moresby it was a desperate fight where the 75th also attacked the Japanese Airbase at Lae as well as escorting USA Dauntless Dive Bombers, based at Morseby ( normaly from Carriers) to attack Lae as well.

Saburo Sakai in his post War Writings described these Battles to be some of the fiercest of the Pacific War, he also described the Allied pilots he fought against here as some of the Bravest men he ever encountered in Air Combat.
The Scenarios in Coop form will be down loadable from the Site I create when the Japanese Zero is released into FB most likely in the ADD on Oleg said he will compile with the new Staff he spoke of after the next bug fix patch is released.

Mean While here is a sneak preview of screen shots, bear in Mind most screen shots of work in progress where taken over the Owen Stanley Ranges of New Guinea being Simulated on the Kuban Map.
Link below

http://www.geocities.com/blackwulf1_2000/kg55.html




Message Edited on 06/26/0309:38PM by Artic_Wulf

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 10:27 PM
Also a huge dissapointment of EA games are that cheats are all over the place the first 3 days the games are out

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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:50 AM
That's because the cheats are "features". They actually have a whole bunch of them listed on the official site and how to use them. Oh well, its still fun. Even when the guy you're shooting at turns into a "land shark"

----------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:55 AM
Well, this AVG fan will have to see what exactly it is first. MOHAA is awesome and really fun, but can EA pull off a fun flight sim? I do doubt it though.

BV

<center>http://777AVG.com/sigs/sig01.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:57 AM
seems like ea has really been milking the wwii theme lately.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 05:36 AM
Well the first sentence is bullchit so how can the sim be any good?

"One of the greatest success stories of World War II began before the war officially began"

Errr wrong, AVG flew first combat sortie December 16 1941. something but they were in CBI theater by November.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 01:23 PM
I'd love a good Flying Tigers sim.

It would be the only other flight sim on my hard drive.

Oleg and 1C have definitly raised the bar in flight simming though.

As long as it's not a total arcade I think I'd buy it.

Of course what would be better would be an AVG add-on to IL-2FB. That would justify (sort of) modelling the Zero.



*****Only left handed people are in their right minds.*****

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 02:45 PM
Man, if this sim ends as good as Longbow 2 then they got my money.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 03:47 PM
Well guys, looking at the bigger picture, I for one am happy that another flight sim is being made. I hope it is pretty decent and I hope it does well...

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 03:55 PM
The text allone says a lot about what to expect from it:
- The AVG claimed 450 victories, but that exceeds the number of japanese aircraft in China around that time. Apparently they shot down around 100, which is still very good. Also the brits "sold" kills to them (the AVG recieved money for kills, so the british often told crash locations to the AVG and then got half of the kill money).
- They never fought against Zeroes. There were obsolete Ki-27 and and lightly armed Ki-43 army fighters, but no naval A6M Zero fighters. The AVG actually captured a Zero, which had crashed on a ferry flight and made it flyable again, but in combat it never faced that type.
Since EA is only repeating 50+ year old Propaganda which doesnt stand up to any research, it shows their interest in historically recreating that air combat....

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:00 PM
Fun to see the Su-2 with the blue camo, they look like Vultee Vengeance!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:02 PM
@Artic Wolf--very good idea indeed. I read Saburo Sakai's remarks about the battles over New Guinea too, it would be really great to recreate them.

<Center><img src=http://images.fotopic.net/?id=338437&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1><Center>

<Center>"I have no principles; I make Adaptability to all circumstances my Principle.<Center>
I have no tactics; I make Emptiness and Fullness my Tactics."<Center> <Center>Bushido<Center>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 06:23 PM
No, I need to see some screenies and features before I can judge anything. One should always be open for new things. Otherwise, Maddox wouldn't have hot the huge fangroup he now has if we all had sticked with the M$ sims.

Isn't it? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:28 PM
I agree with some of the former posts. If when they sunk Janes, their reputation as a serious flight sim producer, went down with it.

The same for for Hasblo scrapping Microprose.

Unfortunately, If someone told me Ubi was scrapping Mattox and Co. tomorrow, dis-belief wouldn't be the first thing I felt.

Nothing against 1C, I just know what game companies are like.

Friends don't let friends use MSSQL

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:47 PM
The reason all those game companies dumped flight sims is because they couldn't make enough money off of them. This isn't because the flight sim market is too small, it was because there got to be too much competition. In 2000, we had about a half a dozen new flight sims coming out. The supply was greater than the demand. This resulted in all except a few makers loosing money on some very large investments. But, the demand is now far greater than the supply. And many new companies like Ubisoft are rushing to take advantage of it. SSI seems to be the sole surviver of the old generation of flight sim makers, but new ones are popping up. There are 2 WW1 flight sims in the works, a night fighter sim, and of course Lock On by SSI (FB is part of SSI as well). The next few years will likely be good to flight simmers, and then we will probebly see flight sims go nearly extinct again.

I hope that this new EA "flight sim" is the start of a new simulation line for them. Even if it is an arcade game, if it does well it may make them consider bringing back Janes.

----------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

Message Edited on 06/27/0301:48PM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:01 PM
the last janes title was a catastrophy... attack squadron. although it was made by a different company than the previous janes titles. even though i believe the extent of janes hand in the making of the games is purely the name on the box, its quite an interesting...company? think tank? im not sure what youd call it...civilian intelligence agency? i know the military uses their info a lot, as does tom clancy.

www.janes.com (http://www.janes.com)

http://avg-pbs.freewebspace.com/pbssig1.jpg



Message Edited on 06/27/0303:03PM by PBS_DangerMouse

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 11:53 PM
If this is done correctly, it could be a lot of fun.

Imagine a FPS with state-of-art graphics, good FM & DM, good online code to support up to 64 players...

I think it might be a money maker, condiering how well EA has done with BF1942. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<CENTER>http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/p51_jaws.jpg</CENTER><CENTER><font size="+1"><div style="width:500;color:#FF2211;fontsize:11pt;filter:shado w Blur[color=red,strength=2)">Coming soon...</div></center></font><FONT color="#2B3038">[b]