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View Full Version : Here are some specs of the Hurc from The USAF Museum -nt



XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 08:18 PM
nt = No Text

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 08:18 PM
nt = No Text

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 08:19 PM
The Hawker Hurricane was one of the famous British fighters of WW II. The prototype was first flown in November 1935 and the first production aircraft made its initial flight in October 1937. Within a matter of weeks, Hurricanes were being delivered to their operational squadrons. By the time the war broke out in September 1939, the Royal Air Force (RAF) had taken delivery of about 500 Hurricanes as production continued.

The hurricane is probably best known for its performance during the Battle of Britain. When the battle commenced in July 1940, the RAF Fighter Command had but 527 Hurricanes and 321 Spitfires to counter the enemy's 2,700 aircraft. Yet, the RAF was able to maintain air superiority in the skies of Great Britain.

Hurricanes were built not only in Great Britain but also in Yugoslavia, before the German invasion, and in Canada during the 1940-1942 period. they were flown by pilots of many nations during the war. The Hawker Hurricane MKIIa on display is a Canadian built airframe painted to represent an aircraft of 71 Squadron, Royal Air Force, one of the three Eagle Squadrons of WW II. Americans in the RAF flew Hurricane MKIIa's with this unit from May to August 1941.

The Museum acquired this Hurricane MK IIa through an exchange with RRS Aviation of Hawkins, Texas, which also restored the aircraft.

SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 40 ft.
Length: 31 ft. 4 in.
Height: 13 ft.
Weight: 7,200 lbs. loaded
Armament: Eight .303-cal. Browning machine guns
Engine: Rolls-Royce Merlin XX of 1,260 hp.
Crew: One

PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 340 mph.
Cruising speed: 238 mph.
Range: 468 miles with internal fuel only; 1,090 miles with two 90 gal. ferry tanks
Service Ceiling: 35,000 ft.

USAF Museum Info --- Driving Directions

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 08:23 PM
I have written the museum to get a pic of the cocpit to end the flap and mixture battles as well I asked for some footage so we can all look at this plane in action.

2700 vs 850 something, any arguments now.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 11:44 PM
It'll be interesting to find out if this aircraft is an original Mk IIa or a converted Mk Ia.If it's an original Mk II a, I'd imagine that there will be no fuel mixture control (as shown in the Pilot's Notes Manual for the Mk II series).If it's a converted Mk I (though I don't think so as it's a Canadian built Hurricane) then it should still have it's fuel mixture control but it will be redundant.

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:05 AM
the Hurricane we have in FB doesnt have that much HorsePower ?

why not ?

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:05 AM
There is far more to British winning the Battle of Britain than numerical odds. To assume that because the British won while being outnumbered 3 to 1 and therefore the Hurricanes and Spits must be superior planes is to grossly over simplify the situation.

Consider if you will:

Approximately 90% of planes destroyed in all wars were shot down by surprise attacks that were not see at all or were seen too late to take evasive action against. (In air to air combat that is, ground attack missions or planes caught on the runway is another matter)

Surprise is obviously a key factor in air to air combat as long as the opponents are of roughly similiar performance. There were no planes so superior in those days that could win regardless of the circumstances, therefore even in a better plane a good pilot would try to bounce his target unseen to give himself the greatest chance of success. Surprise is integral to success in virtually any aspect of warfare.

Consider that the British were flying on their own turf in direct defense of their homeland. A lot was at stake and British pride and esprit de corp was very very strong...if they lost the airwar there was a strong common opinion they would have been invaded and conquered. In many ways they had no choice but to fight hard...and they did.

The British also had radar which allowed them to see the Luftwaffe coming long before they were over the channel...this removed a great deal of 'strategic' surprise for the Germans and allowed the British to prepare for the air attacks in advance. They were highly likely to have assumed better defensive positions before the Luftwaffe arrived, putting the Germans at somewhat of a disadvantage right from the start. When one eliminates the element of surprise, it's hard to overstate how valuable that is in combat...think for a second if you knew exactly what your enemy was going to do at all times...would it be difficult for you to defeat him? Probably not.

While radar was not perfect for the British, it certainly had a strong influence in their favor. I would never attempt to take away from the courage and heroism of those who fought in that Finest Hour, but that courage alone would not have been enough and I think a bit of research would confirm that. They needed everything they had. Thankfully they had it and did won.

Consider also that 80% or more of England was inaccessible to the primary German fighter of the day, the ME109 because of it's short range. Where do you think the RAF had most of their airfields? Outside the range of the ME109, meaning that bomber attacks on the airfields went in unescorted.

In retrospect daylight bombing raids without fighter escort clearly seldom achieved any success and the Luftwaffe suffered very high losses in this area. All the fighter to fighter combat not withstanding, if you cannot stop the enemy from deploying more equipment to the war, if you cannot stop them from using their airfields...it is likely that you cannot win and that is in many ways what happened during the BoB. The Germans ultimately failed to achieve air superiority.

Find out how many pure fighters the Luftwaffe deployed into combat and compare how many they lost with how many RAF fighters they shot down. Compare how many twin engine fighter bombers were deployed and how many of those they lost. Add in the number of pure bombers and stukas that they deployed and see how many of those were lost.

You may find that the Germans actually did quite well in fighter to fighter combat, but lost considerably more planes in total than the British did, in large part because the tactical situation did not favor the Luftwaffe.

You might also be surprised that having 2700 planes in the BoB did not mean that the Luftwaffe had 2700 fighters. Far from it in fact. The number is much closer to 800 than it is to 2700 I believe (anyone feel free to correct me on this point - or any other for that matter)

Depending on what you read (which is in part open to debate, thats the great thing about history), you might be surprised to learn that the Luftwaffe was in many ways regarded as completely unsuitable for a type of air campaign as the BoB...regarded as unsuitable because of the composition of it's aircraft's capabilities, it's original intended mission to provide direct support to the ground forces and it's actual experience in combat doing primarily that--and regarded as unsuitable by the Luftwaffe commanders themselves including Adolf Galland himself.

Take a minute to consider the larger picture...combat is rarely won on a large scale simply by having better equipment, there is far more to it than that. The best equipment in the world will not ensure victory if it's employed incorrectly, nor will even having all the odds stacked in your favor do it either if the will to fight is not there. It is a combination of many things and the BoB demonstrates that in many ways.



Just my .02 cents, for what it's worth.





TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:07 PM
Lets take a minute and get down to specs shall we.

The Hurrican in the patch and what the plane was in real life are two totally different planes. I'm not debating history just this crappy beta patch.

I'm debating that what they did to the Hurc in this patch is so far from reality that I think someone was tasting something before writing the code.

Oh ya the Germans had 2700 fighters for the brits to contend with, why do you think it so famous.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:53 PM
LastRights wrote:
- Lets take a minute and get down to specs shall we.
-
- The Hurrican in the patch and what the plane was in
- real life are two totally different planes. I'm not
- debating history just this crappy beta patch.
-
- I'm debating that what they did to the Hurc in this
- patch is so far from reality that I think someone
- was tasting something before writing the code.

Where are the specs? Assuming for a moment you are correct and the Hurricane is now not right at all...where are the specs (game VS established testing) in regards to things like climb rate, maximum speed, turning radius, turning time, roll rate, and so on and so forth. If you are right then we need (for argument and for getting the plane fixed) the comparison, data, and the ability to over and over show that something is wrong.

Otherwise, we're just using words and without statistical data we can't really do much of anything. I mean, we could have an argument all day "I think its right" "I think its wrong" and so on and so forth but it doesn't really prove much does it?

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:00 PM
Just making a point here is all...looking at a couple of statistics from a book does not mean the new flight model is wrong. It may not be right as I mentioned, but there appear to be other more effective ways to get the point across.


S!

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:12 PM
LastRights wrote:

-
- Oh ya the Germans had 2700 fighters for the brits to
- contend with, why do you think it so famous.
-

I believe this number is the overall amount of German AIRCRAFT, not fighters. I don't have the exact numbers of fighters in mind now, but it was somewhere around 800-1000. The rest were bombers and recon planes. However, still quite a lot to bring down, especially when you consider that it were actually the bombers which were the main targets. I agree debating the Hurricane performance on a bases of aircraft numbers in that battle is very simplistic. The BoB was not what you see in online DF servers...it was about coordination, tactics (with very poor ones on the German side for that matter), logistics etc. The individual a/c performance was one factor, but not the decisive one.



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