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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 10:38 AM
Now I've got your attention, try this simple experiment.

Install two copies of FB - one patched (final) one not.
Set up QMB game, you in a 109 against any other aircraft.
Observe the poor climb performance, poor low - medium speed turning - rapid overheating.

Repeat same in unpatched version.... aaagh, thats better, you can actually catch up to your opponent, low - medium speed turning is predictable and as documented, you can run on full throttle for more than 30 seconds.

All I ask is that you believe the evidence of your own senses.

Lots of luv, flappy.

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 10:38 AM
Now I've got your attention, try this simple experiment.

Install two copies of FB - one patched (final) one not.
Set up QMB game, you in a 109 against any other aircraft.
Observe the poor climb performance, poor low - medium speed turning - rapid overheating.

Repeat same in unpatched version.... aaagh, thats better, you can actually catch up to your opponent, low - medium speed turning is predictable and as documented, you can run on full throttle for more than 30 seconds.

All I ask is that you believe the evidence of your own senses.

Lots of luv, flappy.

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

fluke39
09-16-2003, 10:57 AM
try this experiment


install a copy of FB patched version do a QMB -you in whatever plane you want from the list of about 100 and your enemy in any other plane

notice the beautiful clouds and sunset - notice the 99% Accurate flight model for what ever plane your in. notice the incredible water and detailed accurate cockpits - the engine noise and gun sounds.
notice the incredibly historically accurate versions of each plane and amazing skins.when you get hit note the incredible detailed Damage models and the almost unique damage efects to your engine, propellor governor, fuel tanks, control cables etc etc.
take note of the enjoyment and immersion you get from flying

now install say another leading flight sim - say CFS3

notice how Shyte it is.

experiment over.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:06 AM
Well I'm not saying it should be changed because I've never flown a BF-109. Unless you count a semi-scale R/C model http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Pre-patch I liked it, post patch I would rather fly a bomber.

Thats the honest truth I don't know about climb or speed as I never flew it that much, but just the turning is bad now. I've tried dropping flaps, and everything I can and the bugger either makes a huge turn like a B-17 (exaggeration) or does the mush stall dance.

It's still flyable I guess for those who are dedicated to figure out how to fly it with success.

Then again I'm a poor shot when not chopping their tail off with my propeller so it's all turn and burn for me.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:07 AM
fluke39 wrote:
- try this experiment
-
-
- install a copy of FB patched version do a QMB -you
- in whatever plane you want from the list of about
- 100 and your enemy in any other plane
-
- notice the beautiful clouds and sunset - notice the
- 99% Accurate flight model for what ever plane your
- in. notice the incredible water and detailed
- accurate cockpits - the engine noise and gun sounds.
- notice the incredibly historically accurate versions
- of each plane and amazing skins.when you get hit
- note the incredible detailed Damage models and the
- almost unique damage efects to your engine,
- propellor governor, fuel tanks, control cables etc
- etc.
- take note of the enjoyment and immersion you get
- from flying
-
- now install say another leading flight sim - say
- CFS3
-
- notice how Shyte it is.
-
- experiment over.


Haven't tried the first experiment yet, but I'm with you fluke.
Cheers!

<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.jpg"


Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:48 AM
fluke39 wrote:
- try this experiment
-
-
- install a copy of FB patched version do a QMB -you
- in whatever plane you want from the list of about
- 100 and your enemy in any other plane
-
- notice the beautiful clouds and sunset - notice the
- 99% Accurate flight model for what ever plane your
- in. notice the incredible water and detailed
- accurate cockpits - the engine noise and gun sounds.
- notice the incredibly historically accurate versions
- of each plane and amazing skins.when you get hit
- note the incredible detailed Damage models and the
- almost unique damage efects to your engine,
- propellor governor, fuel tanks, control cables etc
- etc.
- take note of the enjoyment and immersion you get
- from flying
-
- now install say another leading flight sim - say
- CFS3
-
- notice how Shyte it is.
-
- experiment over.
-

Amen. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif




<center>
http://blankgiro.freewebspace.com/IL2/soapy112th.jpg
</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:51 AM
flapbuster wrote:
- Now I've got your attention, try this simple
- experiment.
-
- Install two copies of FB - one patched (final) one
- not.
- Set up QMB game, you in a 109 against any other
- aircraft.
- Observe the poor climb performance, poor low -
- medium speed turning - rapid overheating.
-
- Repeat same in unpatched version.... aaagh, thats
- better, you can actually catch up to your opponent,
- low - medium speed turning is predictable and as
- documented, you can run on full throttle for more
- than 30 seconds.
-
- All I ask is that you believe the evidence of your
- own senses.
-
- Lots of luv, flappy.
-
- Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement
- the pith of which is lost in repetition.

These are the wonderful "realistic" flight models, which Oleg gives us.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:11 PM
I put off installing the patch because I wanted it to be fixed. I finally installed it a couple of days ago. Don't like it.,The 109 has had it's balls cut plumb off.
Also I still don't see why the Russians ever developed ant other Airplane after the I-16. That thing could have been used in Viet-Nam. What a joke.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:38 PM
I don't see why they could not have kept the game more or less like it was in the IL2, but add the bombers, more aicraft and better graphics.

I have played nealy all Microsoft simulators excluding
'Flight sim 95' and 'CFS3' and after getting used to 'Flight sim 98' you could easily play all the others.

In IL2 you had to add trim on take off but this was corrected in IL2 FB, giving you a much better launch.

But the problems I have with FB are. Has any one noticed how you can do airobatics in bombers? loops rolles any thing. Maybe even a Hammer-head in a HE111 lol.
If in every patch all kinds of strange things are going to happen to aircraft. Aircraft getting faster and slower, better turn rates and climb rates. I don't think I will be uninstalling IL2 right now (^_^)v

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:26 PM
This is a HE111 in a roll part of some aerobatics I did a minute ago offline full realism

http://community.webshots.com/s/image7/3/82/53/90638253bcAHcR_ph.jpg


HE111 in the top of a roll
http://community.webshots.com/s/image7/3/79/93/90637993QRKKMo_ph.jpg


A closer view, notice the audinances! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://community.webshots.com/s/image7/3/80/90/90638090SVuOTI_ph.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:27 PM
I would also like to add I did not stall once /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Message Edited on 09/16/0312:32PM by HD_Erik30023

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 03:30 PM
I don't know anything about flight physics, well I don't remember half what I read anyway, but I assume that in the game the AI are consistent, not accurate prtrayals of real men but at least we can assume they react more predictably.

So they should be a good test of each aeroplane types capability?

In real life the advantage goes to the man/woman with the height advantage, so you want an aeroplane that can play to that advantage, not some fast climbing thing that hits the glass ceiling at 5000m and does'nt store/release huge amounts of energy.


If I set up a QM and go head to head flying a 109, P47 or FW190, then I have to work my rear off to buy time to gain some energy. The 109 still has all the advantage.

Once I have that height advantage I don't have a care in the world, I will live and somebody else will probobly die.

The whole thrust of good fighter management was to be in the combat zone with a lot of energy to start with, assuming you have radar etc to help you do that.

The I16 and I153 are great at defence below 2000m but they're meat on the table if you encounter them at Bf109/P47 operational altitudes.

Sorry for stating the obvious, I don't think the Ishak would have had any role post war.




Message Edited on 09/16/0302:31PM by Oboe

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 04:13 PM
Unfortunately, IA pilots in FB are poor using energy tactics. Even if they're good, they prefer to use turning tactics even if their planes are not well suited for this. As a consequence they don't do their best in fast BnZ aircrafts, although they can be a match.

So, it's difficult to judge aircraft by the way IA use them. The best way is to try each of them myself using different tactics against the same IA plane, and decide what's the best one to front it. I repeat the operation with different enemies, and I have a proper vision of each aircraft advantages and setbacks. But I don't sit to watch the IA. They do weird things often.


- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 04:20 PM
Bah!! the Me-109 is fine in the patched version, it's not as hyper-deadly as modelled in the pre-patched version, but it's still easy to fly and kill in. All you need is patience altitude and energy, maneuveur into position and win the fight, though i admit at low level against I16's it seem's more difficult then it should be! The cannon on the Me-109 is the killer still and the machine guns are simple filler, the only time you score a kill with MG's is to spray the enemy canopy or engine and hope for a hit.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 04:30 PM
fluke39 wrote:
- try this experiment
-
-
- install a copy of FB patched version do a QMB -you
- in whatever plane you want from the list of about
- 100 and your enemy in any other plane
-
- notice the beautiful clouds and sunset - notice the
- 99% Accurate flight model for what ever plane your
- in. notice the incredible water and detailed
- accurate cockpits - the engine noise and gun sounds.
- notice the incredibly historically accurate versions
- of each plane and amazing skins.when you get hit
- note the incredible detailed Damage models and the
- almost unique damage efects to your engine,
- propellor governor, fuel tanks, control cables etc
- etc.
- take note of the enjoyment and immersion you get
- from flying
-
- now install say another leading flight sim - say
- CFS3



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Very well put, Kamerade...

The only game I would rather fly than FB is Aces of the Pacific, and even then I'd still come back to FB from time to time /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- notice how Shyte it is.
-
- experiment over.
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- <center><img
- src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flu
- kelogo.jpg>
-

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:22 PM
DuxCorven, Sorry I did'nt mean to say to judge aircraft by the way Ai use them, that would be silly I know.

I meant that if you take different aircraft one by one against an AI ace who always flys the same type, you can test each type against him.

I feel the 109 still has the edge year by year so long as you are patient and work for an altitude advantage.

The way most people experience the game, ie QMG, a very unlikely scenario in real life, then the 109 is denied all the advantage it would have if flown according to the training and procedure of a real Luftwaffe pilot.

Conversly the I16/I153 have an advantage that they would never have been allowed in real life.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:27 PM
Fluke,

Very good response. Thank you for putting so many folk's thoughts into words. IL-2 is flippin' great.

Falcon

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_euro_us_02.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:32 PM
Whoever says that 109`s suck, has no clue how to fly them. Just my impression /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:49 PM
Oboe wrote:


- Once I have that height advantage I don't have a
- care in the world, I will live and somebody else
- will probobly die.


I actually have the exact opposite mentality.
I always try and fight right on the deck, or lure
the enemy AI down to less that 1000 m

At low level, in a La5, or better yet an I 16,
I feel safe, and confident. I practice low level
flying almost exclusively, and am quite good
at it. (The sim Tornado made me love low level
flying)
Having the ground soo close has a way of keeping
everyone honest, or catch hill disease as a result

That, and it makes it easier to see enemy fighters
approaching !


Al

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:52 PM
fluke39 wrote:
- try this experiment

- now install say another leading flight sim - say
- CFS3
-
- notice how Shyte it is.
-


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


LoL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Al

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 06:01 PM
well said fluke /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<p align="center">
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Unofficial IL-2 Community FAQ</font></A>

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 06:02 PM
I fly 109s alot and I don't have any problems with overheating. Basically I fly at 85% throttle until I have gained enough altitude then I cut back to 75-80%. I only use 90% throttle to gain an advantage and only use the boost and about 102-105% in emergencies where I need the power NOW. I only use 110% if I am in a VERY bad position and need to run. I don't use 110% in a climb since that is just too much power at too slow of an airspeed, the engine just can't cool itself.

Using these power settings I have yet to overheat more than once or twice. The key is to be able to fly the plane well enough that you don't need to run at max power for extended periods of time. In fact I would say that you should not run the engine above 90% for more than a few minutes, it just heats up the engine and doesn't give you much time for max power application.

_____________________________________

When does a game end being a game and become a simulator? Interesting questions to ponder while waiting, from Aces-High.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:21 PM
My point exactly AH, very well put!

V!

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:32 PM
Oboe wrote:
-
- The way most people experience the game, ie QMG, a
- very unlikely scenario in real life, then the 109 is
- denied all the advantage it would have if flown
- according to the training and procedure of a real
- Luftwaffe pilot.
-
- Conversly the I16/I153 have an advantage that they
- would never have been allowed in real life.

You're right. A 109 pilot always must try to obtain a clear energy advantage, but the start positions in QMB make this nearly imposible. I find the FB 109 it's a worthy plane when used the proper way. If it loses its advantage it still can disengage combat and fly home. The fault is that, contrary to RL, people insist on winning the combat, even if the advantage has disappeared. In real life, failed dive attacks used to continue on a disengage. It was not a sim, and those guys wanted to win, but also to stay alive. Bf 109 is not always the winning plane, it's just the one that can choose the moment and circumstances of the fight.

BTW, Oboe, what's your favourite music instrument? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:49 PM
You're all missing the point!
Which flight model is correct?

Oh and all you UBI-Comissars out there, crazyivan & co. dont just say I'm crap, stupid newbie whatever, try commenting on the issue raised, just for once. Are you people on the payroll of Ubisoft ? or maybe you would like to be.

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:27 PM
DuxCorvan wrote:
- Oboe wrote:
--
-- The way most people experience the game, ie QMG, a
-- very unlikely scenario in real life, then the 109 is
-- denied all the advantage it would have if flown
-- according to the training and procedure of a real
-- Luftwaffe pilot.
--
-- Conversly the I16/I153 have an advantage that they
-- would never have been allowed in real life.
-
- You're right. A 109 pilot always must try to obtain
- a clear energy advantage, but the start positions in
- QMB make this nearly imposible. I find the FB 109
- it's a worthy plane when used the proper way. If it
- loses its advantage it still can disengage combat
- and fly home. The fault is that, contrary to RL,
- people insist on winning the combat, even if the
- advantage has disappeared. In real life, failed dive
- attacks used to continue on a disengage. It was not
- a sim, and those guys wanted to win, but also to
- stay alive. Bf 109 is not always the winning plane,
- it's just the one that can choose the moment and
- circumstances of the fight.


Agreed. In the 109 you can out climb, out dive, out accelerate, out zoom an I-16. Nobody in RL would have stuck around at low alt. and turned with an I-16. And anybody who was smart flying an I-16 would have tried to get outta there as fast as the little beastie could move them after the first 109 pass on them. If the 109 flyer was at a disadvantage he'd just leave.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:30 PM
flapbuster wrote:
- You're all missing the point!
- Which flight model is correct?
-


Both and no one at the same time. Who knows? The only important thing is how can you do the best with the one you have now. That's what WW2 pilots did. They couldn't choose the plane. If the FM was "undermodeled" they had to put with it.

Maybe you're right and FB 109 isn't able to do the same things the real 109 did, but nobody can recreate reality and all events involved entirely. We can only imagine that it was like this and try to beat the odds. And it can be done. But, you can lose many times. Maybe that's what you cannot stand...

I wish I was in the payroll of UBI. It seems by far a better job than mine. I have to content myself with PLAYING. You should try PLAYING, too. It's quite fun. You take it too seriously, lad. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:34 PM
flapbuster wrote:
- You're all missing the point!
- Which flight model is correct?
-
- Oh and all you UBI-Comissars out there, crazyivan &
- co. dont just say I'm crap, stupid newbie whatever,
- try commenting on the issue raised, just for once.
- Are you people on the payroll of Ubisoft ? or maybe
- you would like to be.
-
- Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement
- the pith of which is lost in repetition.

UBI Commisars? LOL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
No, i am not on payroll and no, i don`t call you a newbie either... all i said that whoever thinks that 109`s are crap has no experiance(no clue how to fly it...) in it, that`s all. And why i am saying it... that`s pretty simple... me = 109 jock since IL2 demo..thru good and bad times. I guess that would give me some kind of right to say that they are not crap, whadda u say?

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:41 PM
I have never said the 109 is crap! I'm pointing out the glaring differences in pre and post patch FM. This game sells itself on being realistic/accurate yet the flight models change constantly.Believe it or no I'm a fan, but I think Ubisoft are in danger of ruining there own product with judged fixes to something that wasn't really broken.
and I'm not a lad, I'm 45 years old with an aviation background ( navy helicopters ) so cut the patronisation crap!

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:56 PM
But if you noticed, i never mentioned your name sir. I said anyone who says that they are crap. If you look thru replies, you will see who i meant.

V!

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 09:43 PM
fluke39 wrote:
- try this experiment
-
-
- install a copy of FB patched version do a QMB -you
- in whatever plane you want from the list of about
- 100 and your enemy in any other plane
-
- notice the beautiful clouds and sunset - notice the
- 99% Accurate flight model for what ever plane your
- in. notice the incredible water and detailed
- accurate cockpits - the engine noise and gun sounds.
- notice the incredibly historically accurate versions
- of each plane and amazing skins.when you get hit
- note the incredible detailed Damage models and the
- almost unique damage efects to your engine,
- propellor governor, fuel tanks, control cables etc
- etc.
- take note of the enjoyment and immersion you get
- from flying
-
- now install say another leading flight sim - say
- CFS3
- notice how Shyte it is.
================================================== =====

Yep Just did that and thank MS CFS is a way to go.
1.The Bf 109 almost NEVER overheated in realirry
and overheat is not stated by anyone who flew it.

2." The FW 190 was the most plaeasent plane to fly....
Friendly, fast, very agile plane..."
Words and or meanings of LW pilots who flew it in combat
i.e.Otto Stammberger,Bernhadt Ellwanger,Arthur G√¬§rtner..

Jonny Johnson and Douglas Bader said about the FW a3
" It could out turn, out climb, out roll the spitfire MKV"

CFS 3 is a very balanced sim concerning how opposite planes fly.My opinion is to try it and get the point of flying missions and do them succesful.Not just dogfighting
like a sport because aircombat was not about that,noe it will ever be.
(Plus you get great free addons almost every week)




Message Edited on 09/16/0310:46PM by amagnum

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 10:20 PM
Flapbuster is basicaly showing that the 109 fm has changed yet again and for the worst, weather the 109 can be flown without overheating at x amount of rad setting and x amount of throttle is totaly irrelevant because at the end of the day if one shouldn't have to do this then it should be fixed.

Crazy Ivan you suprise me that in just about all the 109 complaint threads you always say something about the way people fly it compared to how they should fly it to stop it overheating but nothing about that its wrong, if its your main ride dont you want it fixing like the rest of us? as most of the bugs have a negative effect on its capability. If you get good results in the thing now as im sure you do then you should do even better if it gets fixed.

At the moment the 109 overheating problem is a joke like the other bugs which are rendering it and other non VVS AC incapable of performing as they should.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 10:52 PM
johno__UK wrote:
- Crazy Ivan you suprise me that in just about all
- the 109 complaint threads you always say something
- about the way people fly it compared to how they
- should fly it to stop it overheating but nothing
- about that its wrong, if its your main ride dont you
- want it fixing like the rest of us? as most of the
- bugs have a negative effect on its capability. If
- you get good results in the thing now as im sure you
- do then you should do even better if it gets fixed.
-
-
- At the moment the 109 overheating problem is a joke
- like the other bugs which are rendering it and other
- non VVS AC incapable of performing as they should.
-

Ok, allow me to explain myself. If you flew 109`s since IL2 original i am sure you aware of overheating issue, it was always there... remember how many patches were added to IL2? Remember G6/AS discussions? Overheating in 109`s and SL speed was always subject to heated discussions along with climb rate and mk108...etc. And while all this was going on... people kept flying their favorite birds and learning them. FB comes around...whas 109 that different from original? No, but there was 105% throttle bug that allow continues flying with WEP on and outrunning/outclimbing anything. What a great feature! Guess what, i never used that for simple reason, it was a matter of time before it would be fixed. Didn`t want to get use to it and get off my normal routine.
I had no intentions to slam original poster and never did. I only commented on people who thinks that 109`s are crap and have no chance against VVS etc... That`s just plain BS and you know it.
I can`t believe that people actually didn`t see that VVS uberplanes took a serious downgrade. Yak3 is nowhere to be found nowdays, so is La7. 109`s have better chance to survive then ever...and even better chance to kill...1-2 rounds from MK and most of VVS fighters will either blow up or fall apart. Needless to say that only none of the VVS planes are able to sustain dive speed of 109`s. Escaping is a piece of cake nowdays. I find the only plane that can cause real problem...and it`s not even russian.. P-39N1 and everyone knows it. Freshly baked UFO of eastern front lol.

Bottom line is.. i flew it, i fly it and will fly it either it fixed or not.. but i can tell you once thing for sure, you wont find me on the deck turnfighting Yaks or P-39`s @110% throttle. Flying 109 is a game of patience, always was and will be...at least for me. I got so many thoughts...maybe whatever i wrote doesn`t make any sence lol.

Respecfully,




Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 01:05 AM
DuxCorven,

I'm not actually all that keen on oboes except as part of a big orchestra.

Favorite instrument is harpsichord, I can bang on about the virtues of the harpsichord for hours, especially early italian ones.

My Oboe is a British electronic device fitted to bombers during the war, had to think of something quick when my old name got banned by mistake, still fuming about that, and nobody had the decency to tell me what happened either!!!