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Noxx0s
12-18-2010, 03:42 PM
Basically all I've got in my bag right now is scissors, rolling scissors, snap rolling (super risky of course since it bleeds a ton of E instantly, but does usually give you a shot at the enemy or at the very least a few seconds of respite...), and spiral climbing/diving, and of course just running off if you're faster http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

What else should I know?

Also, I can't seem to get the hang of rolling around in the 190s at very low speeds (i.e. full flaps out)... anyone got tips on that?

Noxx0s
12-18-2010, 03:42 PM
Basically all I've got in my bag right now is scissors, rolling scissors, snap rolling (super risky of course since it bleeds a ton of E instantly, but does usually give you a shot at the enemy or at the very least a few seconds of respite...), and spiral climbing/diving, and of course just running off if you're faster http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

What else should I know?

Also, I can't seem to get the hang of rolling around in the 190s at very low speeds (i.e. full flaps out)... anyone got tips on that?

M_Gunz
12-18-2010, 05:00 PM
Barrel roll.

stalkervision
12-18-2010, 05:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Barrel roll. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


My favorite. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

RegRag1977
12-18-2010, 05:30 PM
Split-S can be useful too.

jarink
12-18-2010, 05:57 PM
Well, it really depends on what plane you're flying. Diving away in a P-47 isn't a bad choice, but doing it in a Zero will only get you hammered.

Noxx0s
12-18-2010, 06:30 PM
Welll ya obviously know barrel roll and split-s, was just wondering if anyone had anything "special". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
12-18-2010, 07:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Welll ya obviously know barrel roll and split-s, was just wondering if anyone had anything "special". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A well timed negative knife edge can be an effective tactic.

Also there is no getting the hang of low speed fighting in the FW190. Stay fast or die. The wing loading is too high and the snap stall too violent for any low speed fighting.

Phas3e
12-18-2010, 07:25 PM
as long as the server is 'cockpits on' I find a bunt followed by a quick pull up into a spiral climb generally always losses an enemy who doesnt hammer you with the first burst.

Noxx0s
12-18-2010, 09:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Welll ya obviously know barrel roll and split-s, was just wondering if anyone had anything "special". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A well timed negative knife edge can be an effective tactic.

Also there is no getting the hang of low speed fighting in the FW190. Stay fast or die. The wing loading is too high and the snap stall too violent for any low speed fighting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry could you elaborate? What's a negative knife edge?

VW-IceFire
12-18-2010, 10:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Welll ya obviously know barrel roll and split-s, was just wondering if anyone had anything "special". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A well timed negative knife edge can be an effective tactic.

Also there is no getting the hang of low speed fighting in the FW190. Stay fast or die. The wing loading is too high and the snap stall too violent for any low speed fighting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry could you elaborate? What's a negative knife edge? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Basically when you have an enemy on your tail you roll 90 degrees making it look like you're initiating a break turn. Instead of pulling back on the stick you push and use heavy counter rudder.

So instead of going down and to the side with the natural lift angle you go up or level and in the opposite direction slightly. It really can mess with a firing solution. Some humans can compensate... the AI is nearly totally fooled by such a move.

DKoor
12-19-2010, 01:30 AM
You know what... be FAST.
Extremely fast.

That way even if enemy is close within shooting range he will have extremely difficult job hitting you. He must be really good shooter to get you.

Put in a few barrel rolls and you will see that you will get away with it many times especially if you find some clouds nearby.

kimosabi79
12-19-2010, 04:15 AM
Bail out and live to fight another day. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

JtD
12-19-2010, 07:06 AM
Best defense is a good offense.

Sure there are many exceptions, but never get too focussed on defense to forget that if you shoot the other guy down, he can't harm you any more.

I had a great deal of good defense yesterday when I was out of ammo in my A6M and half a dozen enemies showed up high. I couldn't tell you what exactly I did if my life depended on it, but I somehow managed to get home undamaged.

stalkervision
12-19-2010, 08:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
You know what... be FAST.
Extremely fast.

That way even if enemy is close within shooting range he will have extremely difficult job hitting you. He must be really good shooter to get you.

Put in a few barrel rolls and you will see that you will get away with it many times especially if you find some clouds nearby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

fast is best.

Going into Storm of War if your flying the 109 e take this advice.

Zoom and Boom http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The 109 is king of the vertical compared to a spit if they have created the flight dynamics right.

we can hope.

VW-IceFire
12-19-2010, 08:41 AM
JtD has a good point. In some desperate situations my best tactic is to go for some quick snap shots followed by another defensive break. If you kill them good... if they are damaged good... if not keep fighting and maintain your overall situational awareness and advantage.

K_Freddie
12-19-2010, 12:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Also, I can't seem to get the hang of rolling around in the 190s at very low speeds (i.e. full flaps out)... anyone got tips on that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Use lots of rudder to enhance the roll, and also to stablise. You can also use the engine torque and propwash to good effect. For example - if you're slow with flaps down, turning hard right while applying full throttle will keep the FW hanging there, where as a P51 (and others) will drop out of the sky - their engines are a lot nastier at slow speeds. Not impossible, but a lot more difficult to control.

1) A gentle weave keeping a lookout on your 6, especially the high and low 6.
2) If possible try not to repeat the same moves - add variations

Xiolablu3
12-19-2010, 12:55 PM
Call your teamates for help, tell them your approx position and height then head for your lines as fast as you can.

JtD
12-19-2010, 12:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
2) If possible try not to repeat the same moves - add variations </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, that's a good point, too. If I happen to B'n'Z a well defending enemy and take time for a couple of passes, I can usually bag him in the third if he does the same maneuver all three times, no matter how good it is. I just point my plane at the spot where I'm expecting him to go, and if he indeed does, it is game over.

Old_Canuck
12-19-2010, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
You know what... be FAST.
Extremely fast.

That way even if enemy is close within shooting range he will have extremely difficult job hitting you. He must be really good shooter to get you.

Put in a few barrel rolls and you will see that you will get away with it many times especially if you find some clouds nearby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So true with a few tweaks depending on aircraft type. Offline (apart from scissors, rolls, etc.) the AI will often shy away if you zoom close to the ground. Human pilots online however are not so easily deterred. Notwithstanding, I've learned that the only way to avoid getting shot down online is to not spawn in. No matter how good you are there's a lot more out there who are better and even those who are not better can get lucky sometimes. So if you want to enjoy your time online you might as well get used to the fact that you're going to get bounced.

PhantomKira
12-19-2010, 06:10 PM
Engine/propeller torque is a noticeable factor in roll on real airplanes, especially ones with big engines and big props in combination, like the F4U and P-47. If your engine/propeller rotates clockwise when viewed from behind, you'll have a better roll rate when rolling to the right (with the torque) than you will when fighting it (to the left). In a defensive situation, knowing which way your engine turns may get you that extra split second to get out of the line of fire.

Check out Capt. Donald S. Brian's defensive escape maneuver starting at 0:40 History Channel: Dogfights P-51 Mustang Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIi_j-nZVHg&NR=1). Note the critical part engine torque plays in this maneuver. Also note that this takes you out of any chance of offensive action against that particular airplane, while leaving you extremely vulnerable at almost zero airspeed until you dive and get it back. To the overconfident pursuer, however, you'll appear to defy the laws of physics before simply disappearing aft and below. Never tried this myself.

Human nature is a major factor. When put in a split second decision situation, without directional bias, the tendency is to push the stick resulting in a left turn rather than pulling it, resulting in a right turn. They may hesitate to follow you going into a right turn just long enough for you to do something meaningful. I'm sure there are some lefty sim pilots out there that are an exception to this rule and I know for a fact that there are a few ambidextrous useable joysticks out there.

Negative G hurts, and while it's not a factor in simulation (other than redout) it still may catch the unwary by surprise. Rolling right, then shoving the nose under and going left instead of the anticipated pulling to go right, for example.

Finally, the best tactic is mutual support. Never fly alone, and trust and communicate with the guy you're flying with.

A good pair working as a team is very hard for an individual to beat. Maneuvers such as the Thatch Weave mutual defense will result in a very tough day for less than twice your number of opponents, even if you're flying an inferior airplane.

Ba5tard5word
12-19-2010, 07:43 PM
Jerk your rudder around a bunch while turning to stall and spin out. May result in crashing.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

M_Gunz
12-19-2010, 10:57 PM
Propwash hits harder than torque on these planes, especially at lower speeds. You can also cut power to take one set of forces away for another, remember that the tail and often wings are set to deal with propwash rather than the absence.

ROXunreal
12-20-2010, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Welll ya obviously know barrel roll and split-s, was just wondering if anyone had anything "special". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

when in a fast-rolling horribly-turning plane like the FW-190 at under 1000 meters, under attack, low on E and generally in a desparate situation, one trick saved my skin a few times: dive straight towards the deck and hope the guy on your 6 will fllow you, and hope his roll rate is worse than yours, if he is still following, start rolling trying to get your up-side of the plane facing opposite to the up-side of his plane, you can do this in a foke-wulf with relative ease. Continue to do this until you get too near to the ground, remember you're doing this in a more or less vertical dive all the time, at high speed, so be careful of blacking out from the rolling. When you get close to the ground, roll suddenly and pull up. If you did it right, and whith a dose of luck, the plane with a lower roll rate won't be able to follow and will have to pull up in the more or less opposite direction to avoid hitting the ground. This can buy a lot of precious time and put as much as 1.5-2km distance between you and your pursuer. I saved my butt a few times with this, especially useful if you're within your own lines and friendly pilots are nearby.

thefruitbat
12-20-2010, 09:40 AM
a slight diff to the above, i've found success by a tight spiral dive towards the deck and pulling out at the last minute, Its next to impossible for the following plane to be on the same vector as you after pullout, as they to have to get out because of the impending ground, and generally there will be at least 90 degrees (normally more) heading diff, which then gives you something to work with.

ROXunreal
12-20-2010, 10:22 AM
Yeah, probably more reliable than my example which is risky for blacking out and hitting the ground or being shot up, but if its is done right you get more distance http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Noxx0s
12-20-2010, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhantomKira:
Engine/propeller torque is a noticeable factor in roll on real airplanes, especially ones with big engines and big props in combination, like the F4U and P-47. If your engine/propeller rotates clockwise when viewed from behind, you'll have a better roll rate when rolling to the right (with the torque) than you will when fighting it (to the left). In a defensive situation, knowing which way your engine turns may get you that extra split second to get out of the line of fire.

Check out Capt. Donald S. Brian's defensive escape maneuver starting at 0:40 History Channel: Dogfights P-51 Mustang Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIi_j-nZVHg&NR=1). Note the critical part engine torque plays in this maneuver. Also note that this takes you out of any chance of offensive action against that particular airplane, while leaving you extremely vulnerable at almost zero airspeed until you dive and get it back. To the overconfident pursuer, however, you'll appear to defy the laws of physics before simply disappearing aft and below. Never tried this myself.

Human nature is a major factor. When put in a split second decision situation, without directional bias, the tendency is to push the stick resulting in a left turn rather than pulling it, resulting in a right turn. They may hesitate to follow you going into a right turn just long enough for you to do something meaningful. I'm sure there are some lefty sim pilots out there that are an exception to this rule and I know for a fact that there are a few ambidextrous useable joysticks out there.

Negative G hurts, and while it's not a factor in simulation (other than redout) it still may catch the unwary by surprise. Rolling right, then shoving the nose under and going left instead of the anticipated pulling to go right, for example.

Finally, the best tactic is mutual support. Never fly alone, and trust and communicate with the guy you're flying with.

A good pair working as a team is very hard for an individual to beat. Maneuvers such as the Thatch Weave mutual defense will result in a very tough day for less than twice your number of opponents, even if you're flying an inferior airplane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gotta say that's a pretty sick looking maneuver. You're soooo vulnerable for a couple seconds though.

Dumb question but what is propwash (and how does it affect stuff in IL-2... not asking about RL here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

Also, I take it you can tell torque by which direction your plane naturally goes towards, both on the ground and off?

K_Freddie
12-20-2010, 02:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Dumb question but what is propwash (and how does it affect stuff in IL-2... not asking about RL here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gunz will provide that answer.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Also, I take it you can tell torque by which direction your plane naturally goes towards, both on the ground and off? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The opposite rotational direction to what your propellor is rotating
eg: If your prop rotates clockwise, your torque will rotate the plane anti-clockwise, and visa versa.

K_Freddie
12-20-2010, 02:30 PM
From experience on servers...
The best position is in a FW with a P51 on your tail, at 50m altitude, slow and full flaps.

You can roll the FW 180 in a 'ticky' and pull up vertical so fast, that it presents an all lose situation for the P51.

If he tries to follow the roll, he just ploughs the field.
If he doesn't follow he overshoots ......

You can do the same with a P40-vs-Zero, with a lot more difficulty, but it can be done.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Noxx0s
12-20-2010, 02:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Dumb question but what is propwash (and how does it affect stuff in IL-2... not asking about RL here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gunz will provide that answer.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Also, I take it you can tell torque by which direction your plane naturally goes towards, both on the ground and off? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The opposite rotational direction to what your propellor is rotating
eg: If your prop rotates clockwise, your torque will rotate the plane anti-clockwise, and visa versa. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So.... to double check, the OPPOSITE of what I said? Torque is the opposite of the direction your plane "leans" towards?

K_Freddie
12-20-2010, 02:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Gotta say that's a pretty sick looking maneuver. You're soooo vulnerable for a couple seconds though.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd say that 'video' is a miss-presentation of the real thing
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

K_Freddie
12-20-2010, 02:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
So.... to double check, the OPPOSITE of what I said? Torque is the opposite of the direction your plane "leans" towards? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No No, forget the "lean towards" thingy.. it's just the opposite rotational direction of the propellor !

M_Gunz
12-20-2010, 05:03 PM
IL2 pretty much models these things the same as real since 4.02 including propwash which is what drives these single engine tail-dragger models to the side during takeoff roll especially before the tail comes up. It is torque but it is not torque due to gyroscopic action of the prop.

If I tap the rudder quick, I should get a small rise or drop of the nose -- that is the gyroscopic effect.

If I am flying slow at low power and jam on throttle, the plane wanting to roll over is 90+% due to propwash.

Most people including wartime pilots learned what to expect and what to do (or died, like a lot of late-war barely trained 190 pilots on getting bounced at low level) without getting near deep enough to tell the effects apart.

P-factor is stronger than gyro effects in these single-engine props. I've seen p-factor in prop flight sims back to the mid-90's though at the time I didn't know it.

Hey, I know! Every time something acts a bit like the plane is trying to twist, just call it prop torque! Do the same things all the time and most all the time it won't make much difference anyway.

PhantomKira
12-20-2010, 05:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Gotta say that's a pretty sick looking maneuver. You're soooo vulnerable for a couple seconds though.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd say that 'video' is a miss-presentation of the real thing
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, yeah, I'm sure it is. That's the problem with your grapics people being graphics people and not whatever-they're-trying-to-represent people. I've seen major mistakes, like the narrator talking about MiG-21s in Vietnam air combat while the graphics clearly depict MiG-19s. Somebody who didn't know quite enough got their airplanes mixed up, and no one else knew enough to fix it.

Another segment called MiG-17s "Farmers". That was the MiG-19, 17s were Frescos. NATO designations.

Of course, those sorts of programs are aimed at the general population, not people who know and care about the details.

Noxx0s
12-20-2010, 05:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
Gotta say that's a pretty sick looking maneuver. You're soooo vulnerable for a couple seconds though.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd say that 'video' is a miss-presentation of the real thing
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well just tried it out in-game... tricky, but it works... if you throw in a turn right before or something to throw his aim it gives you the second you need to do it.

Pretty tough though because each plane is different and your timing has to be spot on or you'll go into a spin.

Noxx0s
12-20-2010, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
So.... to double check, the OPPOSITE of what I said? Torque is the opposite of the direction your plane "leans" towards? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No No, forget the "lean towards" thingy.. it's just the opposite rotational direction of the propellor ! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>bleh still don't get it. I can't tell what direction my propellor is going lol it spins too fast... so how do I tell?

PhantomKira
12-20-2010, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IcyScythe:
I can't tell what direction my propellor is going lol it spins too fast... so how do I tell? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shut down (normally the "I" key), wait for the prop to stop, restart. Observe prop rotation direction at start.

M_Gunz
12-20-2010, 07:52 PM
You can find your propwash direction during that takeoff roll. It's what you rudder against. However, depending on your speed and power you may have to trim opposite -- In both IL2 and RL.

Here's the IRL situation. (http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/yaw.html)

You will need to go to the link to see Figure 8.2 below, might as well read it there. The wash is shown as a clockwise spiral that hits the tail on the left side after curling around under the plane. Note 3 below gets the assumption that the engine turns clockwise as seen from the pilot seat.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">8.4 Helical Propwash

One of the very first things that people find out about when they start learning to fly is that it takes right3 rudder (sometimes a lot of right rudder) to keep the airplane going straight at the beginning of the takeoff roll. The physics of the situation is portrayed4 in figure 8.2.
cork-rudder
Figure 8.2: Helical Propwash

It would be nice if the propeller would just take the air and throw it straight backwards, but it doesn’t. The propeller airfoil necessarily has some drag, so it drags the air in the direction of rotation to some extent. Therefore the slipstream follows a helical (corkscrew-like) trajectory, rotating as it flows back over the aircraft.

The next thing to notice is that on practically all aircraft, the vertical fin and rudder stick up, not down, projecting well above the centerline of the slipstream. That means the helical propwash will strike the left side of the tail, knocking it to the right, which makes the nose go to the left, which means you need right rudder to compensate.

You don’t notice the effect of the helical propwash in cruise, because the aircraft designers have anticipated the situation. The vertical fin and rudder have been installed at a slight angle, so they are aligned with the actual airflow, not with the axis of the aircraft.

In a high-airspeed, low-power situation (such as a power-off descent) the built-in compensation is more than you need, so you need to apply explicit left rudder (or dial in left-rudder trim) to undo the compensation and get the tail lined up with the actual airflow.

Conversely, in a high-power, low-airspeed situation (such as initial takeoff roll, or slow flight) the helix is extra-tightly wound, so you have to apply explicit right rudder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of more interest is WHY to know about these things:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This chapter discusses the yaw-wise motion of the airplane, which has to do with which way the airplane is pointing.1

Normally you want the aircraft to be pointing the same direction as it is going through the air. That is, you want the slip angle to be small. There are several reasons for this:

* Precision: If your objective is to turn to the left, it doesn’t make sense to let the maneuver begin with a big inadvertent yaw to the right.
* Efficiency: Slipping creates unnecessary drag.
* Comfort: Passengers really hate being sloshed from side to side. Maybe it doesn’t bother you, but it will bother your passengers. Also note that in many small aircraft, passengers are at a mechanical disadvantage because they are seated farther from the pivot point (the center of mass) than the pilots are. That means any given yaw angle produces more sideways displacement at the passengers’ location.
* Safety: Whereas if you stall in coordinated flight the nose will just drop straight ahead, if you manage to stall in sufficiently uncoordinated flight, you will get a spin (see chapter 18) or a snap roll (see chapter 11), which is much harder to recover from.

Maintaining zero slip angle while maneuvering requires coordinated use of the ailerons and rudder, so pilots speak of “zero slip angle” and “good coordination” almost interchangeably. (Situations that call for an intentional slip are discussed in section 11.3.)

This chapter considers, one by one, the various phenomena that affect the airplane’s yaw-wise motion. There are surprisingly many such phenomena, including the helical propwash, yaw-wise inertia, adverse yaw, P-factor, and gyroscopic precession — plus the stability and damping created by the vertical fin and rudder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But of course who wants to read all that stuff? Like, what's it for, a book report? Just do whatever you do and make something up to explain it all. So you might lose a fight, blame it on the FM! It's more FUN that way.

M2morris
12-20-2010, 08:14 PM
Last night I was in an F4U flying against 2 KI 43 aces.
Flying on realistic setting. I placed these AI planes as individuals.
In the first head on pass I managed to injure the one on the left and he went away smoking. I pulled up hard and found the other oscar had also pulled up. I put in flaps to landing setting and went to full power as we passed again firing at eachother missing. I was inverted and as he passed almost clipping me I pulled back on the stick and went into a split S going after him.
Maybe I did hit him, because he just flew in a gentile arc up to the left as I was diving down on him, I would think a 43 would be doing circles around me, but he was flying injured or suicidal. I put my flaps back up and dove at him, got on his six and began to shoot him up as he jigged violently trying to avoid me.

The next thing I know bullets are wizzing passed my cockpit.
It was the other Oscar I had 'thought' I had disabled in the head-on pass. He was on my six and shooting me up.
I chopped throttle, went to full flaps and put my corsair into a full slip.
Full left rudder and right ailerons.
He flew passed me and in front of my guns.
I had only a second to do it, but I shot him. A control surface or something fell off of his plane and he began to smoke. I throttled back up went flaps up and chased him. But before I could catch up he spiraled in, his shadow met his plane and he exploded on impact next to a river, the pieces bouncing and landing in the water. I never found that other oscar.
I limped my injured Corsair back to home.