PDA

View Full Version : Aramusha rebalance/rework



Kryltic
05-23-2018, 11:05 PM
So, I'm sure we can all agree that the Aramusha is probably the weakest DLC character and the one in the most need of help in terms of DLC (the Centurion needs something other than his stupid cutscene I know).

So what do you think that would work?
My thoughts:

Heavy finishers become unblockable and gain HA. This makes them far more threatening especially with his ability to feint them.

Create Light finishers which auto hit but inflict less damage and end his chain but must be the third attack in the chain (same way as the Nobushi). This means he can quickly inflict extra light damage but gives his opponent time to recover.

Remove both his infinite chains and create a new one where he can mix heavies and lights from any direction into any direction but it must be different to the last previous attack otherwise it becomes a finisher (hopefully this makes sense). As above, Light finishers are new and must be the third attack in a sequence.

Increase the Blade Blockade duration slightly, perhaps 100-200ms. Just to give it a little more wiggle room.

Uber wishlist: Give him a deflect where he kicks and stuns his opponent similar to Push Back Kick.

Rushing Wind and Sprint Attack count as the first hit in a chain

Befuddle creates an Unblockable attack but with decreased damage. Does not create a chain.

EvoX.
05-23-2018, 11:15 PM
Heavy finishers become unblockable and gain HA. This makes them far more threatening especially with his ability to feint them.

Now this would be one hell of a buff I wouldn't mind seeing in action, but it would be too much. Aramusha can get to his finishers with just a single move, you'd see those UB's literally every second.

Kryltic
05-23-2018, 11:21 PM
Now this would be one hell of a buff I wouldn't mind seeing in action, but it would be too much. Aramusha can get to his finishers with just a single move, you'd see those UB's literally every second.

But easy to dodge which is why I don't feel it would be too OP, as far as I'm aware they don't have much tracking. If I'm incorrect then a slight tracking decrease but I'm pretty sure it's minimal at best.

E1seNw0Lf
05-23-2018, 11:45 PM
All he needs is a way to break out of his generic and straight limited attack sequencing.
Something like:
* heavys need HA
* with a 2nd heavy in a row (no matter which guard direction) you can soft feint the heavy into a light of a different direction or into a gb
* his zone counts as a chain starter and the UB heavy should (additionally to his cancel) be soft feintable into a top light.
* Rushing Wind (Alternate) should be soft feintable into opposite sided heavy with HA (remember the 2nd heavy thing) or into a top light
* change the timing / time windows on Twin Vipers cancel and soft feint (meaning, it should be possible to delay the cancel / soft feint a little bit more)



Increase the Blade Blockade duraction slightly, perhaps 100-200ms. Just to give it a little more wiggle room.

Plz no. That would be a hell of a nerf - easier gb that is not tech-able.

Kryltic
05-24-2018, 12:16 AM
As far as I'm aware you can already soft feint his finishers into any direction bar the same one his finisher was in.

Why would the blade blockade duration be so bad? It doesn't last long at all.

BTTrinity
05-24-2018, 12:22 AM
So, I'm sure we can all agree that the Aramusha is probably the weakest DLC character and the one in the most need of help in terms of DLC (the Centurion needs something other than his stupid cutscene I know).

So what do you think that would work?
My thoughts:

Heavy finishers become unblockable and gain HA. This makes them far more threatening especially with his ability to feint them.

Create Light finishers which auto hit but inflict less damage and end his chain but must be the third attack in the chain (same way as the Nobushi). This means he can quickly inflict extra light damage but gives his opponent time to recover.

Remove both his infinite chains and create a new one where he can mix heavies and lights from any direction into any direction but it must be different to the last previous attack otherwise it becomes a finisher (hopefully this makes sense). As above, Light finishers are new and must be the third attack in a sequence.

Increase the Blade Blockade duraction slightly, perhaps 100-200ms. Just to give it a little more wiggle room.

Uber wishlist: Give him a deflect where he kicks and stuns his opponent similar to Push Back Kick.

Rushing Wind and Sprint Attack count as the first hit in a chain

Befuddle creates an Unblockable attack but with decreased damage. Does not create a chain.

-To much, as its way to easy for him to access finishers

-Probably not a bad idea with the light finishers.

-I think it would be better to just make his top heavy feint as fast as the others and (MAYBE) give his heavy-finisher-deadly-feints hyper armor

-Decrease Blade Blockade Duration would be kind of a nerf... I say just balance out its risk-reward factor.

-His forward dash attacks do count as the first hit in each chain, they can also be cancelled, the top has HA

-mixed feelings about befuddle buff

I'm going to let it be said, Ara is a strictly inferior version of Zerk and its painful to see. Zerk has way better mixups (Hyper armor, Unblockables, et cet) and his deflect is very good as well; Aras all guard is not considering it needs to block an attack in order to get any sort of value, and even then its "Value" doesnt even work 100% of the time.


List of things Id like to see done with Ara

- Fix bugs like being able to be GB'd before the first attack of the zone connects; not being able to throw an opponent when they're facing eachother when next to a wall, Ara CANNOT throw the person toward the wall but will instead throw behind him.

- Possibly a Top Heavy Finisher Deadly Feint Speed Increase to be on par with the rest of his feints

- Possibly give Top Heavy Deadly Feints HA

- Deadly Feint Applied to the startup of his zone attacks unblockable

- Give him the ability to cancel his heavy finishers into a dash attack

- Give him the ability to cancel heavy finishers into Blade Blockade

Now to balance out the risk reward factor of Blade Blockade

- Fury Unleashed guaranteed off all light attacks including zones 500 ms and faster.

- Possibly increase Ring The Bell to 18 damage from 15

Knight_Raime
05-24-2018, 01:51 AM
So, I'm sure we can all agree that the Aramusha is probably the weakest DLC character and the one in the most need of help in terms of DLC (the Centurion needs something other than his stupid cutscene I know).

So what do you think that would work?
My thoughts:

Heavy finishers become unblockable and gain HA. This makes them far more threatening especially with his ability to feint them.

Create Light finishers which auto hit but inflict less damage and end his chain but must be the third attack in the chain (same way as the Nobushi). This means he can quickly inflict extra light damage but gives his opponent time to recover.

Remove both his infinite chains and create a new one where he can mix heavies and lights from any direction into any direction but it must be different to the last previous attack otherwise it becomes a finisher (hopefully this makes sense). As above, Light finishers are new and must be the third attack in a sequence.

Increase the Blade Blockade duraction slightly, perhaps 100-200ms. Just to give it a little more wiggle room.

Uber wishlist: Give him a deflect where he kicks and stuns his opponent similar to Push Back Kick.

Rushing Wind and Sprint Attack count as the first hit in a chain

Befuddle creates an Unblockable attack but with decreased damage. Does not create a chain.

~No. Throwing unblockables in his chain would be madness. And HA wouldn't help him really outside of being attacked by multiple people.

~A chain finisher to end his infinite combo with some added effect is an interesting suggestion.

~ehhhh.

~Would increase the time a person could GB him and since he can't tech that it would be a p big nerf.

~Deflect doesn't fit because he's not an assassin.

~sure I guess.

~nah.

Xeith98zz
05-24-2018, 05:18 AM
Aslong as hes not a spammy **** anymore than the community and the dev team can do whatever the hell they want with aramusha lol

Kryltic
05-24-2018, 09:04 AM
As I said, the deflect was a pure wishlist idea and why I put he only gets a kick out of it rather than an attack.

Camemberto
05-24-2018, 09:31 AM
These suggestions are exactly what break the game even harder than it already is.

Giving everybody unblockables and hyper armor is a BAD idea, since those are exactly, what's wrong with this game in the first place.
Instead of changing everybody's offense to a point where the console version is literally unplayable, how about making fundamental changes to the defense in a way, that would benefit both the console- and the PC-version, so that the offense wouldn't need to become so unfair.

This is my suggestion:
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1883651-Defense-Overhaul

Kryltic
05-24-2018, 10:55 AM
Personally I don't see it as a problem as long as there's some predictability to it or if it doesn't result in an infinite loop.

The Aramusha suggestions are predictable as the finisher animation is fairly obvious and any feint must be done very early on and thus provide time to counter.

The guaranteed hit would be the third hit (or higher) in a chain and provide minimal damage. It would end the chain so the opponent can recover.

His attacks aren't so fast you cant block them so allowing them from any direction wont break him but it will allow him to actually try and open up turtles. At the minute you can basically just block up and laugh at the Aramusha.

Giving unblockables on heavy finishers, which are obvious and slow, reduces the risks of the attack somewhat, and makes them a little more appealing to use in 1vs1. The HA was because the attack has little to no tracking, a simple dodge counter this.


The defence meta is already a problem. I don't want to see it become even more so. I would rather see every character have a chance to turtle or go on the offensive in some way. Atm some characters can do only one or the other and not very well... And this is where the Aramusha is now.

RexXZ347
05-25-2018, 12:09 AM
I mean, berserker and aramusha have the same kit right? Spam light infinite chain mixing heavy finisher. So why is the berserker have hyper armor, unblockable, soft feints to any direction and deflect? I mean why is the community crying about aramusha and not on berserker? They have the same 400ms light chain. Only berserker have better move sets. Blade blockade is a high risk low reward move. You can parry the unblockable side and can block the top one. I want hyper armor on his infinite chain and unblockable on his heavy finisher. Blade blockade to be removed and change it with a deflect.

JadeBosson.
05-25-2018, 08:46 AM
*actually waiting/hoping for a musha nerf*

Specialkha
05-25-2018, 11:23 AM
These suggestions are exactly what break the game even harder than it already is.

Giving everybody unblockables and hyper armor is a BAD idea, since those are exactly, what's wrong with this game in the first place.
Instead of changing everybody's offense to a point where the console version is literally unplayable, how about making fundamental changes to the defense in a way, that would benefit both the console- and the PC-version, so that the offense wouldn't need to become so unfair.

This is my suggestion:
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1883651-Defense-Overhaul

How about you start to play on a monitor with wired controller and connection. Here you go, fixed the game for you.

Camemberto
05-25-2018, 11:49 AM
How about you start to play on a monitor with wired controller and connection. Here you go, fixed the game for you.

You're not serious, are you? What other fighting game requires you to buy new hardware, just because of how badly it's balanced for console? A wired controller doesn't suddenly give me godlike reflexes, that enable me to react to a 300ms attack, now does it? At least I am providing productive feedback.

EDIT: Don't tell me, there is no such thing as a 300ms attack. I KNOW that storm rush "takes" 600ms, but that won't help me, if I only get to see the indicator for 300ms.

Specialkha
05-25-2018, 11:55 AM
You're not serious, are you? What other fighting game requires you to buy new hardware, just because of how badly it's balanced for console? A wired controller doesn't suddenly give me godlike reflexes, that enable me to react to a 300ms attack, now does it? At least I am providing productive feedback.

EDIT: Don't tell me, there is no such thing as a 300ms attack. I KNOW that storm rush "takes" 600ms, but that won't help me, if I only get to see the indicator for 300ms.

If you do not have the reflexes to handle 300/400/500 ms attacks. Maybe it is time to move on to slower games. We can't stay at the top of our form forever.

Camemberto
05-25-2018, 12:08 PM
If you do not have the reflexes to handle 300/400/500 ms attacks. Maybe it is time to move on to slower games. We can't stay at the top of our form forever.

Do you play on PC or PS4? I'm not some old man. I am in my early 20s and I don't expect to have to be able to catch bullets with my teeth, just to be able to play a f*cking game.

Specialkha
05-25-2018, 12:23 PM
Do you play on PC or PS4? I'm not some old man. I am in my early 20s and I don't expect to have to be able to catch bullets with my teeth, just to be able to play a f*cking game.

I play on PC, and if you make the game slower, it will be unplayable as everything would be blocked/parried. And since it looks like there won't be a separate balance pass between pc and console, you know where that leads us.

And some ppl are able to parry/block that kind of stuff on console, so why not you?

On a sidenote, you chose to play on the inferior hardware, so why complain?

Camemberto
05-25-2018, 01:46 PM
I play on PC, and if you make the game slower, it will be unplayable as everything would be blocked/parried. And since it looks like there won't be a separate balance pass between pc and console, you know where that leads us.

And some ppl are able to parry/block that kind of stuff on console, so why not you?

On a sidenote, you chose to play on the inferior hardware, so why complain?

Dude, I made a threat about changes to the defense, that would benefit BOTH PC and console, without breaking one or the other, because of some major changes to parries and blocks.
Also how is the game not already unplayable on console?

You CAN block and parry them, IF you somehow manage to get psychic and input the parry before you see the attack, sure I don't see a problem with that.

What makes balance for the PC-version more important than balance for the console version? The console version has way more players, so if anything, that should be the deciding force.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure, there is a way to achieve balance on both systems, and TIMING is not the way to go, which is exactly, what Ubisoft uses to balance the game.

EDIT: Play some matches on the console... Then let's have a proper conversation.

Specialkha
05-25-2018, 02:06 PM
If I would be playing on console, I would use monitor, wired connection and controller, so the loss to PC would be minimal. It is your fault for not doing that, not the game's one.

Camemberto
05-25-2018, 03:13 PM
I have a wired connection, and noone in their right mind would find it OK to suggest buying 300 worth of new hardware just because of how broken this game is.

Also a new monitor won't make my PS4 produce 60fps and I sure as hell won't buy a PS4 pro for that matter.

Using a controller also makes a difference and that I won't be able to change.

This game in its current state is objectively unplayable on the console. The fact that despite everything that is posted in this forum, you still continue to argue in favor of this game makes me think that you are either an extremely competent troll or something I am not putting into words because it would be too offensive.

UbiJurassic
05-25-2018, 11:33 PM
There's definitely a good bit of brainstorming going on in here and I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts on improving Aramusha so far! I'll make sure to note all the feedback down. :)

Knight_Raime
05-26-2018, 12:58 AM
I have a wired connection, and noone in their right mind would find it OK to suggest buying 300€ worth of new hardware just because of how broken this game is.

Also a new monitor won't make my PS4 produce 60fps and I sure as hell won't buy a PS4 pro for that matter.

Using a controller also makes a difference and that I won't be able to change.

This game in its current state is objectively unplayable on the console. The fact that despite everything that is posted in this forum, you still continue to argue in favor of this game makes me think that you are either an extremely competent troll or something I am not putting into words because it would be too offensive.

Anyone who's serious about gaming will eventually seek to improve their setup. That's not exclusive to pc gamers.
A monitor is suggested because frames per second isn't what's making PC players gods at blocking/parrying. it's refresh rate. Refresh rate is how often the information on the screen is refreshed to show you new information. The better the refresh rate the more accurate information you have in real time. Serious gamers in the fighting genre don't settle for a monitor with over 5 refresh rate.

Frames per second is a weak argument because it doesn't give you double the time to react to something like people think. You just see more of said animation. Not to say that isn't helpful. But it's not going to be such a game breaking difference that you'll suddenly be able to react 10 times better than you were before. And really if we were talking about pc gaming seriously most pc gamers have 120fps or higher. 60fps isn't a big leap from 30 in a fighting game.

Most top tier competitive players are using an xbox one controller. Or just a controller of some kind. Not many mouse and keyboard. And serious fighters be them pc or console tend to buy arcade sticks. Which is a special controller meant for fighting games.

It's a good thing that you didn't state how you felt truly. Because someone screaming profanity while being this ignorant would just be embarrassing. also "objectively unplayable on console" is basically the definition of hyperbole. The game isn't the issue. Your capability as a player and your mindset as a person is. If you can't accept blame in some regard and try to improve as a player perhaps it's best if you just stopped playing for honor. it's clearly not fun for you. Especially if it's upsetting you enough that you'd come and be offensive to others on the internet simply because they don't agree with you.

RenegadeTX2000
05-26-2018, 03:28 AM
While all this happens... Who should get what, and arguments on why... I just use who works and just get my W and leave.

Kryltic
05-26-2018, 09:35 AM
Lets stick to the actual thread topic and not our gaming set ups! We want Ubi to listen the the thread and not lock it.

So, does anyone else have any ideas they would like to add?

RexXZ347
05-26-2018, 12:19 PM
Lets stick to the actual thread topic and not our gaming set ups! We want Ubi to listen the the thread and not lock it.

So, does anyone else have any ideas they would like to add?

yeah, buff aramusha.