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View Full Version : Riptide Is Super Safe



KotoKuraken
05-18-2018, 04:01 AM
I can't seem to punish Orochi's new Riptide. It's a super safe move that comes out super quick, and I can't get any damage in because he recovers too fast. He can use it to dodge out of anything and it doesn't seem like it can be dodged out of on reaction

Knight_Raime
05-18-2018, 04:06 AM
Deflect/parry timing on it is as soon as he starts coming back in at you. it's a 600ms light that is good at dodging but can be baited (if relied upon) for a chunk of damage on him since it's a light.

KotoKuraken
05-18-2018, 04:09 AM
Deflect/parry timing on it is as soon as he starts coming back in at you. it's a 600ms light that is good at dodging but can be baited (if relied upon) for a chunk of damage on him since it's a light.

The stat sheet says it's 600, but it's a lot faster than that when you're facing it
Edit: to clarify, that's how long it takes to initiate, but that's definitely not how long it actually shows up to your opponent at all

Vakris_One
05-18-2018, 04:12 AM
The stat sheet says it's 600, but it's a lot faster than that when you're facing it
True enough. In training mode against a bot it will be 600ms. Online in PvP it will be more like 500ms as we still don't have a decent lag comp in place.

Baturai
05-18-2018, 04:12 AM
Stop crying and put some effort. He has no unblockables.. And his offensive state is his actually his biggest weakness.

Knight_Raime
05-18-2018, 04:13 AM
The stat sheet says it's 600, but it's a lot faster than that when you're facing it
Edit: to clarify, that's how long it takes to initiate, but that's definitely not how long it actually shows up to your opponent at all

Doesn't feel faster to me. Then again i'm used to playing around with aggressive 600ms attacks (centurion) so.
either way my statement stands on when to parry/deflect. It's a good move that beats raw inputs like zones and bashes. But I wouldn't use it on anything that can be feinted.

KotoKuraken
05-18-2018, 04:19 AM
Stop crying and put some effort. He has no unblockables.. And his offensive state is his actually his biggest weakness.

We're not talking about that. We're talking about a move that can't be punished. We can talk about that in another topic thread

Vakris_One
05-18-2018, 04:20 AM
Stop crying and put some effort. He has no unblockables.. And his offensive state is his actually his biggest weakness.
My irony meter just went into orbit from this post. Baturai, the guy who has written a "delete this OP crap!" post for every character in the game that he does not play himself is telling someone to stop critiquing the character he mains. Oh, the hypocrissy is just too much!

ArchDukeInstinct
05-18-2018, 05:04 AM
Stop crying and put some effort. He has no unblockables.. And his offensive state is his actually his biggest weakness.

Neither did Peacekeeper when she was allegedly super duper OP.

KotoKuraken
05-18-2018, 05:37 AM
Basically what I'm thinking should be done, is to have a longer recovery window after a missed Riptide. I should be able to get a light or guardbreak or something for them just throwing it out there and missing

Howard_T_J
05-18-2018, 07:14 AM
We're not talking about that. We're talking about a move that can't be punished. We can talk about that in another topic thread

Just saying. Orochi Main here. It's a 50/50 of you attack while I'm doing it (light) you'll most likely knock me out of it into the drunken Orochi stumble

Charmzzz
05-18-2018, 07:24 AM
The indicators on Storm Rush and Riptide Strike show veeery late imo. Definitely not 600ms long, more like the whole animation is 600ms and the indicator shows up 300ms before he hits you. Should definitely be looked at imo.

Btw I want all this fancy stuff (attack stance switch on moves, undodgeable moves) on my PK, too! Orochi is, together with Zerker, the best Assassin now. Deals massively more Damage than (imo) the overnerfed PK.

Howard_T_J
05-18-2018, 08:05 AM
Orochi it's a badass now. Can almost trade blows with a zerk. But had to wait for an opening

Vrbas1
05-19-2018, 06:12 AM
Indicator shows up way too late. I block if lucky/guess right. Patch notes even say indicator comes out at 300ms.... WTF is that?

Should be a free GB or damage of some sort if blocked (like old warden zone). Period.

Specialkha
05-19-2018, 07:05 AM
The indicators on Storm Rush and Riptide Strike show veeery late imo. Definitely not 600ms long, more like the whole animation is 600ms and the indicator shows up 300ms before he hits you. Should definitely be looked at imo.

Btw I want all this fancy stuff (attack stance switch on moves, undodgeable moves) on my PK, too! Orochi is, together with Zerker, the best Assassin now. Deals massively more Damage than (imo) the overnerfed PK.

I do not mind it. PK has been over the top for more than a year. Time to feel the shaft a little now.

ANd if I recall the indicator are late on purpose.

Knight_Raime
05-19-2018, 08:42 AM
The indicators on Storm Rush and Riptide Strike show veeery late imo. Definitely not 600ms long, more like the whole animation is 600ms and the indicator shows up 300ms before he hits you. Should definitely be looked at imo.

Btw I want all this fancy stuff (attack stance switch on moves, undodgeable moves) on my PK, too! Orochi is, together with Zerker, the best Assassin now. Deals massively more Damage than (imo) the overnerfed PK.

Indicator seems normal on riptide to me. the delayed indicator on storm rush hits is done on purpose. It's to help storm rush not be as predictable as it could be. Considering they upped the run time to 600ms before the attack (was 400ms,) removed any guaranteed follow up damage, and you can't delay the storm rush input anymore it needs this help.

Pain-Seeker
05-19-2018, 10:33 AM
You guys are really horrible you know that ? I havent played the game for months , only came back for orochis rework . Now when i play against zerk,conq and kensei they seem super op but only because i dont know what they can that and the timings . So instead of whining on forums go to arena and practice . In the last to days i played orochi mostly and faced a lot of orochis as well from lvl 1 to prestige 20 and more . While riptide strike is a good counter its not super op as you claim it to be . Against any orochi who ties to spam it i get a free light parry every time . Out of neutral it never hits me . It cant be even compared to things like pk zone or shinobis light attks . Storm rush as well . First time an orochi pulled it off on me i was like wtf thats fast . 2 days later and storm rush out of neutral is useless . I can either interupt it or block it , even parry it if i know my oppenent usualy goes for one direction .

ChampionRuby50g
05-19-2018, 10:59 AM
True enough. In training mode against a bot it will be 600ms. Online in PvP it will be more like 500ms as we still don't have a decent lag comp in place.

Today I went into the Arena to train against the new Orochi, and in the arena I eventually was able to react and dsyart recognising patterns. Itís PVP it felt a lot quicker. Orochi got some good crack.

Playing_Mantis
05-19-2018, 11:04 AM
How about the Orochi has been **** tier for a year now. maybe just let him be good for a bit before *****ing about nerfs. give it a couple weeks to see if people can figure them out. if its truly too strong then it can be looked at later. I agree with the guy that says go practice. The time wasted on this post could have been a little more practice rather than trying to nerf every class that u don't play.

Rikuto01.tv
05-19-2018, 11:14 AM
We're not talking about that. We're talking about a move that can't be punished. We can talk about that in another topic thread

Except it can be punished.... with a parry/deflect.

People have done it to me plenty, which means the fault lies on you.

Sucks to hear that, I know, but working as intended. There are faster moves in this game that are harder to deal with so crack open a can of red bull and start honing those reactions. That's the kind of game this is.

Lord_Cherubi
05-19-2018, 01:45 PM
Rep 2 Orochi here

While i wouldnt say its OP by any means, if were being totally honest its pretty much the safest dodge attack out there :/

The old Riptide was a great tool when used correctly but missing it meant u would have to recover, giving the opponent enough time to properly punish you for your mistake.

Id say make the recovery time a bit longer and be done with it.

BananaBlighter
05-19-2018, 03:09 PM
Tbh I really liked the old riptide. If they had made it uninterruptible and maybe dodge back slight more (also make it immune to GB in the start-up), then it would've been perfect imo. It was so incredibly satisfying, and I loved how powerful it was. It was much faster than storm rush and so it was actually very useful in some situations (especially because you could be easily caught in the slow start-up of storm rush if you use it when you're right next to your opponent). The new animation looks incredibly ugly too, and the whole awesomeness factor of the move has disappeared.

Okita_Soji..
05-19-2018, 03:10 PM
As much as I didn't like the old riptide this one is meh. Sure its fast but I would have rather been able to hold or cancel the old one. It hits for 20 dam and now no execute. I miss the SR cancel to GB as well. He is fast and side lights are nice so i don't have to just try to get top lights all the time. It's new so I now have a tendency to use riptide a lot as not everyone is used to it. Btw rep 30 something with Orochi if it matters.

Vrbas1
05-20-2018, 06:20 AM
Except it can be punished.... with a parry/deflect.

OK, have fun parrying/deflecting a 300ms attack on 30fps console. What's it like to be God, can you tell me?

Playing_Mantis
05-20-2018, 10:51 AM
i don't think its any safer than dodge attacks. u can cancel it once u start it and all u need to do is feint bait it out.

Arekonator
05-20-2018, 10:55 AM
OK, have fun parrying/deflecting a 300ms attack on 30fps console. What's it like to be God, can you tell me?

Just hit him out of it during his run up.

RexXZ347
05-20-2018, 12:15 PM
Just hit him out of it during his run up.

yeah, only that he is 10 meters away that runs towards you while he can wait for your stamina to lose.

EvoX.
05-20-2018, 01:45 PM
Indicator comes out late. There's no way in hell this is the same thing as Shugoki's lights, it seems twice as fast.

Knight_Raime
05-20-2018, 05:38 PM
Just hit him out of it during his run up.

he can hard feint and deflect/parry instantly. if you want to light him out of it you have to wait till the 600ms run is done and he's starting to attack. Not as easy as you'd think.

Arekonator
05-20-2018, 07:34 PM
he can hard feint and deflect/parry instantly. if you want to light him out of it you have to wait till the 600ms run is done and he's starting to attack. Not as easy as you'd think.

Getting the proper timing down is stil easier than reacting to the 300ms indicator imo.

Knight_Raime
05-20-2018, 07:56 PM
Getting the proper timing down is stil easier than reacting to the 300ms indicator imo.

Maybe if someone overly uses the top SR. I can't really see someone managing that with left or right on a consistent basis.

Arekonator
05-20-2018, 08:13 PM
Maybe if someone overly uses the top SR. I can't really see someone managing that with left or right on a consistent basis.

You just want to launch it as close to the end of the run up as possible, so if they want to cancel and punish you, they have to do that by prediction, not reaction, Fastest SR attack is still "only" 500ms even when the indicator is hidden. Just throwing it out of in the last 150~ms of the run-up comfortably gives you enough time that your attack hits first while beinmg close enough to the end that your opponent cant react fast enough to cancel. Getting the timing for that sweetspot is relatively trivial practice, compared to reacting to the indicators.

Knight_Raime
05-20-2018, 09:21 PM
You just want to launch it as close to the end of the run up as possible, so if they want to cancel and punish you, they have to do that by prediction, not reaction, Fastest SR attack is still "only" 500ms even when the indicator is hidden. Just throwing it out of in the last 150~ms of the run-up comfortably gives you enough time that your attack hits first while beinmg close enough to the end that your opponent cant react fast enough to cancel. Getting the timing for that sweetspot is relatively trivial practice, compared to reacting to the indicators.

I'll believe it when I see it. I still don't see people stuffing shoulder bash, shamans pounce/wcr mix up, HL's caber toss mix up, and kensei's neutral top heavy mix up with lights often and it's more than doable on all of those.

KotoKuraken
05-21-2018, 02:26 AM
Just to push the idea how safe this move is...I can't even use PK's zone attack to punish it, because it hits me before my zone hits his riptide.

The fault is not entirely with me. Orochi can spam the crap out of this to punish anything, and not even PK's forward dash has enough range to catch him. The only way it can be punished is if Orochi is guardbroken or hit before he dodges, which isn't even a punish to the move itself but an attack made before Riptide was even used

KotoKuraken
05-22-2018, 03:22 PM
This is why I know Riptide is super safe.

Riptide is a light attack, that doesn't show its indicator until very late into the set. It's faster than PK's zone in execution. PK takes half her stam bar to do a 400ms 15 damage attack with virtually no range. Orochi spends very little stam to do an even faster 22 damage attack that has enough range to dodge out of all of Kensei's attacks and swipe in. And Orochi can recover fast enough from this attack to negate even the fastest of zone attacks. If Riptide is simply to deny aggressors, lower the damage. Lower it down to like 10-15 damage. Conq has one of the best zones that counters aggressors, and it only does 10 damage. There's no reason for this move that is purely for dissuading attackers to do more damage than a PK heavy

https://giant.gfycat.com/UnequaledVacantCanine.mp4

Arekonator
05-22-2018, 05:43 PM
How is this faster than PK?