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KotoKuraken
05-16-2018, 11:10 PM
So the Peacekeeper rework entails

--nerfing down the damage of her light attacks, heavies, and zone
--slowing down her dodge attacks
--can only use her heavy into bleed cancel from one direction instead of being able to choose which side it comes out on, which will be highly predictable
--backdodge will be the exact same as everyone else

Now, some of these things were warranted, but not to the combined extent of this "rework". Sure she'll be able to stack bleeds, but you'd need to either land a bunch of bleed cancels or a heavy to stack those up.

Concerns
The sole reasons, as I understand it, as to why she was #1 was due to her backdodge getting her out of trouble and the amount of damage she can do.
However, with the damage and speed being removed from PK and having no great dodge properties, what tools does she have as a counter attacker? She doesn't have hyperarmor, bashes, unblockables, or a super damaging deflect either. I'm not saying I want any of that, it's great that she doesn't. The problem, though, is that she won't have any unique moveset to "counter" people with like Orochi did aside from the heavy into only top bleed.

Disclaimer
I don't play assassins at all (you can even check my profile about that), but as someone who plays Conq/Lawbro/Shugo, she's looking like she'll be easier to fight than pre-rework Orochi. Maybe we'll have to wait and see until after the rework, but I'm kinda concerned this character will be obliterated off the playlist with how few tools she will have.

Knight_Raime
05-16-2018, 11:33 PM
She's dropping to A tier. So no. She'll still be plenty fine.

KotoKuraken
05-16-2018, 11:37 PM
She's dropping to A tier. So no. She'll still be plenty fine.

Why do you think she'll still be A tier? She will have nothing special about her, aside from her heavy cancel into bleed. She is looking to especially have even less than Valk has but with less damage.

From how her kit is looking, she'll possibly sink into C tier

Knight_Raime
05-16-2018, 11:51 PM
Why do you think she'll still be A tier? She will have nothing special about her, aside from her heavy cancel into bleed. She is looking to especially have even less than Valk has but with less damage.

From how her kit is looking, she'll possibly sink into C tier

Because 600ms side dodges are still strong enough to avoid most mix ups and punish them. Because her light/delayed light is still 400ms and hard to defend against. and because her zone option select is still present. Not to mention her soft feint GB seems to be the best in the game of it's kind (it consistently grabs people in their start up frames of attacks better than other ones) and it's being buffed to be able to be used in her combos now instead of just from neutral.

C tier heros are reserved for heros with no strong tools and terrible match ups against S tier heros. The biggest change she received nerf wise was a nerf to her damage profile which hurts her max punishes.

KotoKuraken
05-17-2018, 12:07 AM
Because 600ms side dodges are still strong enough to avoid most mix ups and punish them. Because her light/delayed light is still 400ms and hard to defend against. and because her zone option select is still present. Not to mention her soft feint GB seems to be the best in the game of it's kind (it consistently grabs people in their start up frames of attacks better than other ones) and it's being buffed to be able to be used in her combos now instead of just from neutral.

C tier heros are reserved for heros with no strong tools and terrible match ups against S tier heros. The biggest change she received nerf wise was a nerf to her damage profile which hurts her max punishes.

She does still have option select, I'll give you that, but her side dodge attack won't have much damage at all and will be easily parried since she can't just delay it like Kensei can. Her soft feint is exactly like others though, there's not difference between hers, Centurions, or Shamans. They can all softfeint exactly the same.

As far as her lights attacks though, those will do half the damage Shinobi can already do and they are the same speed (Shinobi gets a guaranteed 2 lights upon landing the first) and her heavy + light bleed will also do roughly half of Shinobi's heavy + guaranteed light while also being the exact same speed.

If option select and a soft-feint into guardbreak are the only tools she has, she might be a slightly worse Centurion

UbiJurassic
05-17-2018, 12:27 AM
So the Peacekeeper rework entails

--nerfing down the damage of her light attacks, heavies, and zone
--slowing down her dodge attacks
--can only use her heavy into bleed cancel from one direction instead of being able to choose which side it comes out on, which will be highly predictable
--backdodge will be the exact same as everyone else

Now, some of these things were warranted, but not to the combined extent of this "rework". Sure she'll be able to stack bleeds, but you'd need to either land a bunch of bleed cancels or a heavy to stack those up.

Concerns
The sole reasons, as I understand it, as to why she was #1 was due to her backdodge getting her out of trouble and the amount of damage she can do.
However, with the damage and speed being removed from PK and having no great dodge properties, what tools does she have as a counter attacker? She doesn't have hyperarmor, bashes, unblockables, or a super damaging deflect either. I'm not saying I want any of that, it's great that she doesn't. The problem, though, is that she won't have any unique moveset to "counter" people with like Orochi did aside from the heavy into only top bleed.

Disclaimer
I don't play assassins at all (you can even check my profile about that), but as someone who plays Conq/Lawbro/Shugo, she's looking like she'll be easier to fight than pre-rework Orochi. Maybe we'll have to wait and see until after the rework, but I'm kinda concerned this character will be obliterated off the playlist with how few tools she will have.

PK's rework was actually brought up and discussed during a podcast held by some of the top players in For Honor on Twitch. If you're interested in hearing their thoughts on the rework, you can find it here. (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/258457926?t=01h14m43s) There's also a PK rework update (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-323301-16/season-6-fighter-update-peacekeeper)that was put out yesterday as well that's a interesting read.

Also as a point of clarification, while you technically could choose the direction of the dagger cancel, it wasn't very useful since the cancel would come from the same direction the attack was canceled from. With the changes to it, it provides an opportunity to cross-up your opponent by allowing it dagger cancel to come from a direction different from the attack you canceled from.

Knight_Raime
05-17-2018, 08:10 AM
She does still have option select, I'll give you that, but her side dodge attack won't have much damage at all and will be easily parried since she can't just delay it like Kensei can. Her soft feint is exactly like others though, there's not difference between hers, Centurions, or Shamans. They can all softfeint exactly the same.

As far as her lights attacks though, those will do half the damage Shinobi can already do and they are the same speed (Shinobi gets a guaranteed 2 lights upon landing the first) and her heavy + light bleed will also do roughly half of Shinobi's heavy + guaranteed light while also being the exact same speed.

If option select and a soft-feint into guardbreak are the only tools she has, she might be a slightly worse Centurion

Her option select is one of the strongest in the game because of how good her zone is. That's what her biggest thing going for her is.
She doesn't need to have a massive delay to her dash attack. It's still a good one to punish a raw bash and since bleed stacks now that's still damage she keeps ticking.
If you speak to lots of seasoned players with pk they will specifically note that her soft cancel into GB is more reliable at grabbing people in their vulnerability.

Shinobi's lights are strong damaging but that's really it. He has no offense. And people deal with his lights far easier than pk's lights.
She's still some what safe. and now has more flexible cancels. According to the way the current tier list is based on the competitive reddit there isn't anyway she'd drop to anything below A tier. In order for that to happen she'd have to lose her option select. Which will probably never happen. So she'd have to get bumped out of A tier by future reworks. I forsee warlord being bumped out by orochi. Not sure if anyone in A tier will move to S tier though. for now that seems to be only occupied by 3 people (pk now no longer in S tier.)

DrinkinMehStella
05-17-2018, 09:36 AM
Rather than assume this is a nerf which is does look like, lets wait a week to see how she fairs against the best of them with the changes, i'm sure if she is under performing then she will be buffed.

Kahnjul
05-17-2018, 10:23 AM
I really don't understand why she still have bleed without any use for it : except doing delayed damage, it doesn't bring any deepnees on her gameplay.
She really lacks something that will make her more than a fast boring spammer
I mean, applying bleed on a target simply make her suffer dmg (and attacks does that already) while Shaman and Nobu also use it with unique and cool mechanics
PK should really get rewarded for applying bleed or something like that, even if it comes with others nerfs.

Also, to be fair, when i see kensei, shaman or zerk in action i just want to throw her to garbage because she's so monodimensional. Sure she's effective, but effective doesn't mean fun

Charmzzz
05-17-2018, 10:48 AM
and it's being buffed to be able to be used in her combos now instead of just from neutral.


Oh nononono, no, just no. It is FIXED to work AGAIN like it did until September 2017 when they removed Timesnap... And now they sell it to us as a REWORK. Yes, I AM MAD about this...

Charmzzz
05-17-2018, 10:58 AM
PK's rework was actually brought up and discussed during a podcast held by some of the top players in For Honor on Twitch. If you're interested in hearing their thoughts on the rework, you can find it here. (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/258457926?t=01h14m43s) There's also a PK rework update (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-323301-16/season-6-fighter-update-peacekeeper)that was put out yesterday as well that's a interesting read.

Also as a point of clarification, while you technically could choose the direction of the dagger cancel, it wasn't very useful since the cancel would come from the same direction the attack was canceled from. With the changes to it, it provides an opportunity to cross-up your opponent by allowing it dagger cancel to come from a direction different from the attack you canceled from.

Still, compared to the Zerker, Conq and Kensei Rework it is pretty pathetic what is sold as a Rework on PK. Guaranteed attacks, high OOS pressure, unblockables from neutral, hyperarmor everywhere, 400ms lights after a heavy feint, you gave them ALL THIS. Even Orochi got more (undodgeables). And PK get's what? Simple BUGFIXES, stacking bleed and Stunning Tap in a worse form. The rest is pure nerf on almost EVERY damage she deals (Zone, Top Dodge Attack, EVERY heavy-bleed followup, Lights...).

Embarrassing and pathetic for a "Rework". My opinion.

Erhanninja
05-17-2018, 12:39 PM
I think PK needed to be nerfed long time ago. She is most cancerous hero in this game. She can go in and out of battle without any harm no way to catch her even OOS. I cant parry PK on console let alone block most of the time. I play as Nobushi long time and she is slow as hell. No way to block PK light attack spam. And I agree that they reworked Kensei too much and Zerk didnt even need rework with his soft feints

Alustar.
05-17-2018, 12:44 PM
I think PK needed to be nerfed long time ago. She is most cancerous hero in this game. She can go in and out of battle without any harm no way to catch her even OOS. I cant parry PK on console let alone block most of the time. I play as Nobushi long time and she is slow as hell. No way to block PK light attack spam. And I agree that they reworked Kensei too much and Zerk didnt even need rework with his soft feints

This just isn't factual. No one's arguing whether peacekeeper needed a nerf, but to say you can't block or parry her lights is incorrect. Players in my MMR block her lights very well and I personally know a few players that can reliably parry her light hits. Just because you can't, doesn't mean it's impossible.

Charmzzz
05-17-2018, 12:57 PM
I think PK needed to be nerfed long time ago. She is most cancerous hero in this game. She can go in and out of battle without any harm no way to catch her even OOS. I cant parry PK on console let alone block most of the time. I play as Nobushi long time and she is slow as hell. No way to block PK light attack spam. And I agree that they reworked Kensei too much and Zerk didnt even need rework with his soft feints

Holy that is so wrong. Back-Dodge was nerfed -> she cannot go in and out anymore like before. "Light Attack spam" - that's what e.g. Zerker can do alot better. If you cannot block a 500ms PK Light, what about 400ms Zerker Light?

BTTrinity
05-17-2018, 02:41 PM
I think PK needed to be nerfed long time ago. She is most cancerous hero in this game. She can go in and out of battle without any harm no way to catch her even OOS. I cant parry PK on console let alone block most of the time. I play as Nobushi long time and she is slow as hell. No way to block PK light attack spam. And I agree that they reworked Kensei too much and Zerk didnt even need rework with his soft feints

I also play as Nobushi, and blocking PK's attacks is my last issue..... Its when they foooookn turtle


Holy that is so wrong. Back-Dodge was nerfed -> she cannot go in and out anymore like before. "Light Attack spam" - that's what e.g. Zerker can do alot better. If you cannot block a 500ms PK Light, what about 400ms Zerker Light?

Havent really played in a while, but isnt Zerkers lights similar to Aramusha? (500ms from neutral, chaining into 400ms?)

Vakris_One
05-17-2018, 02:42 PM
Still, compared to the Zerker, Conq and Kensei Rework it is pretty pathetic what is sold as a Rework on PK. Guaranteed attacks, high OOS pressure, unblockables from neutral, hyperarmor everywhere, 400ms lights after a heavy feint, you gave them ALL THIS. Even Orochi got more (undodgeables). And PK get's what? Simple BUGFIXES, stacking bleed and Stunning Tap in a worse form. The rest is pure nerf on almost EVERY damage she deals (Zone, Top Dodge Attack, EVERY heavy-bleed followup, Lights...).

Embarrassing and pathetic for a "Rework". My opinion.
I will say that PK's "rework" isn't actually a rework when compared to Kensei, Conq, Orochi or even Zerk. At best what she got was a bug fix and a rebalance like what Highlander and Nobu got, not a rework. In my opinion they seriously could have given a genuine rework to someone else like Valk, Warden, Lawbro or Shugoki and still had PK as the rebalance and bug fix that it is.

We are only really getting one rework for the start of Season 6 and that is Orochi. PK shouldn't be called a rework because it's just not. They used up a rework slot for something that isn't a rework which feels a bit sh/tty considering there are at least 4 other vanilla heroes out there that need an actual genuine rework. Maybe 5 if you count Raider.

Charmzzz
05-17-2018, 02:46 PM
Havent really played in a while, but isnt Zerkers lights similar to Aramusha? (500ms from neutral, chaining into 400ms?)

True, and all you have to do is feint a heavy to get access to the 400ms Light (with HA!). If I could get than on PK, even without infinite chain... ;)

BTTrinity
05-17-2018, 02:48 PM
True, and all you have to do is feint a heavy to get access to the 400ms Light (with HA!). If I could get than on PK, even without infinite chain... ;)

xD I wish Ara can do that, even without the hyper armor....

KotoKuraken
05-17-2018, 02:49 PM
I also play as Nobushi, and blocking PK's attacks is my last issue..... Its when they foooookn turtle



Havent really played in a while, but isnt Zerkers lights similar to Aramusha? (500ms from neutral, chaining into 400ms?)

Zerker gets a 400ms light whenever he feints and on any and all light attacks in his heavy light chain, and they all come with hyperarmor. Aramusha gets a 400ms light on the top and 500ms light on the side in an infinite light chain (which makes it impossible for anyone with a reflex guard to block or dodge his infinite light chain once he lands at least one hit)

Charmzzz
05-17-2018, 02:57 PM
Zerker gets a 400ms light whenever he feints and on any and all light attacks in his heavy light chain, and they all come with hyperarmor. Aramusha gets a 400ms light on the top and 500ms light on the side in an infinite light chain (which makes it impossible for anyone with a reflex guard to block or dodge his infinite light chain once he lands at least one hit)

True except for the "impossible". I do that regularly.

BTTrinity
05-17-2018, 02:58 PM
Zerker gets a 400ms light whenever he feints and on any and all light attacks in his heavy light chain, and they all come with hyperarmor. Aramusha gets a 400ms light on the top and 500ms light on the side in an infinite light chain (which makes it impossible for anyone with a reflex guard to block or dodge his infinite light chain once he lands at least one hit)

Aramusha first has to hit you with a 500ms side light, in order for the 400ms top light to come out... Top light from neutral is still 500ms

Did the recent "Fix" to Ara vs. Reflex guard break something, or just not help?

I was able to block him with Assassins before the fix, tricky but got the hang of it after a long while

KotoKuraken
05-17-2018, 03:05 PM
True except for the "impossible". I do that regularly.

I see you haven't faced him with more than 50+ latency then

Alustar.
05-17-2018, 04:11 PM
I see you haven't faced him with more than 50+ latency then

That's not proof of it being impossible... Wow

Vakris_One
05-17-2018, 04:38 PM
I see you haven't faced him with more than 50+ latency then
Latency isn't used to balance the characters around though nor should it be. At 50+ latency pretty much any character's lights can become a nightmare so you're not really making a valid point about Aramusha being "impossible" from a character design and balance standpoint.

Within normal gameplay parameters everyone can block him regardless of reflex guard or no. Orochi in particular eats Aramusha for breakfast with his Riptide strike even if he gets caught in Ara's light combo. In fact riptide completely bypasses the majority of what Aramusha is built around.

Knight_Raime
05-17-2018, 05:24 PM
I really don't understand why she still have bleed without any use for it : except doing delayed damage, it doesn't bring any deepnees on her gameplay.
She really lacks something that will make her more than a fast boring spammer
I mean, applying bleed on a target simply make her suffer dmg (and attacks does that already) while Shaman and Nobu also use it with unique and cool mechanics
PK should really get rewarded for applying bleed or something like that, even if it comes with others nerfs.

Also, to be fair, when i see kensei, shaman or zerk in action i just want to throw her to garbage because she's so monodimensional. Sure she's effective, but effective doesn't mean fun


Bleed lets her kill with chip damage. It's not unique to her. But imo of the 3 heros that can apply bleed without feats she can apply it the easiest. Which means yes while you have to widdle someone down now with less damage always blocking against pk isn't going to be a safe option since she can just keep bleed up for the entire fight.


Oh nononono, no, just no. It is FIXED to work AGAIN like it did until September 2017 when they removed Timesnap... And now they sell it to us as a REWORK. Yes, I AM MAD about this...

I'm aware. we've been over this. There really isn't a point in clarifying that. Wether or not she's had it before it's something she didn't have for a long time and now it's back so in my eyes it's a buff. Not invalidating your feelings. Just stating I don't see the point in telling me something we both know I already knew.

Knight_Raime
05-17-2018, 05:28 PM
I see you haven't faced him with more than 50+ latency then

That's not how latency works. To figure out the latency in the match you add the ping of both yours and the opponents together. While it's possible for you to get 50 latency between you and your opponent I doubt that's the norm for you because that would mean everyone you vs regularly is near you. Like real close.

Also as a frame of reference 50 latency isn't a big deal. 120 latency or less is considered the intended experience for majority of online gaming. Though you can still play up to 140 and things would be fine. it's once you start getting past that into 150 and above where the match is getting messy.

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2018, 07:08 PM
The sole reasons, as I understand it, as to why she was #1 was due to her backdodge getting her out of trouble and the amount of damage she can do.
However, with the damage and speed being removed from PK and having no great dodge properties, what tools does she have as a counter attacker?

That is the issue I have with the rework and the changes she has had since day one. She was carded as a counter attacker, that was part of the attraction of her to me other than the weapons but she has had everything counter attacking nerfed in favour of keeping her lights fast. They even said at the reveal that the changes were supposed to enable her to be a persistent threat, they might as well change counter attacker to harasser.

UbiJurassic
05-17-2018, 09:49 PM
Still, compared to the Zerker, Conq and Kensei Rework it is pretty pathetic what is sold as a Rework on PK. Guaranteed attacks, high OOS pressure, unblockables from neutral, hyperarmor everywhere, 400ms lights after a heavy feint, you gave them ALL THIS. Even Orochi got more (undodgeables). And PK get's what? Simple BUGFIXES, stacking bleed and Stunning Tap in a worse form. The rest is pure nerf on almost EVERY damage she deals (Zone, Top Dodge Attack, EVERY heavy-bleed followup, Lights...).

Embarrassing and pathetic for a "Rework". My opinion.

The term "rework" certainly does carry a lot of weight in terms of expectations, and perhaps may not have been the best use of the term. With many of the reworks, we've taken heroes that were underperforming and added to them in order to bring them up to speed with the rest of the roster. However, with the PK rework it was a very different story. PK was already a hero that overperformed and was considered a highly competitive pick among the majority of players. In turn, this rework was fundamentally different in that it was less about bringing her up to speed by giving her more tools to compete with the rest of the roster. Instead, it was more about normalizing her overpowering aspects, while fine-tuning the options she has to best utilize her playstyle.

Alustar.
05-17-2018, 11:26 PM
The term "rework" certainly does carry a lot of weight in terms of expectations, and perhaps may not have been the best use of the term. With many of the reworks, we've taken heroes that were underperforming and added to them in order to bring them up to speed with the rest of the roster. However, with the PK rework it was a very different story. PK was already a hero that overperformed and was considered a highly competitive pick among the majority of players. In turn, this rework was fundamentally different in that it was less about bringing her up to speed by giving her more tools to compete with the rest of the roster. Instead, it was more about normalizing her overpowering aspects, while fine-tuning the options she has to best utilize her playstyle.

(Bear in mind, this post isn't directed at you specifically, I'm angry with the dev team, so feel free to let them have this message in its entirety. I've got much love for you Jurassic, you've always been an Awesome mod!)

Except that all the devs did was nerf her power and mobility output and fix bugs. Then never added anything to compensate for the changes made. I've been saying since the release of season 2 that the vanilla roster would need to be reworked. A few characters have been, others have gotten "balance passes" (as if that term is supposed to makes us feel better).
The biggest problems peacekeeper had were created by the devs in the first place, and as Candle had already mentioned, rather than retool her on a way that is both balanced and fits her paradigm of play, they chose to ignore all evidence and muck up the whole deal.

UbiJurassic
05-17-2018, 11:40 PM
(Bear in mind, this post isn't directed at you specifically, I'm angry with the dev team, so feel free to let them have this message in its entirety. I've got much love for you Jurassic, you've always been an Awesome mod!)

Except that all the devs did was nerf her power and mobility output and fix bugs. Then never added anything to compensate for the changes made. I've been saying since the release of season 2 that the vanilla roster would need to be reworked. A few characters have been, others have gotten "balance passes" (as if that term is supposed to makes us feel better).
The biggest problems peacekeeper had were created by the devs in the first place, and as Candle had already mentioned, rather than retool her on a way that is both balanced and fits her paradigm of play, they chose to ignore all evidence and muck up the whole deal.

Totally appreciate the love alustar! :)

Whether or not PK will still remain a competitive pick and if these changes were the right direction for her still remains to be seen. As with all balance updates, we'll be looking to hear feedback from everyone about the new changes and we'll be looking at her data coming from Season 6. FredEx has made a feedback thread for Peacekeeper (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1881982-Season-6-Peacekeeper-Feedback) (and for Orochi (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1881981-Season-6-Orochi-Feedback)) so we can best collect the feedback of players into one collective thread. Give the changes a bit of time, as these changes will likely make people have to change up their long established playstyle with her a bit. As a PK player myself, I'll definitely need to invest some time to figure out how best to utilize her as well.

CandleInTheDark
05-18-2018, 01:50 AM
Totally appreciate the love alustar! :)

Whether or not PK will still remain a competitive pick and if these changes were the right direction for her still remains to be seen. As with all balance updates, we'll be looking to hear feedback from everyone about the new changes and we'll be looking at her data coming from Season 6. FredEx has made a feedback thread for Peacekeeper (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1881982-Season-6-Peacekeeper-Feedback) (and for Orochi (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1881981-Season-6-Orochi-Feedback)) so we can best collect the feedback of players into one collective thread. Give the changes a bit of time, as these changes will likely make people have to change up their long established playstyle with her a bit. As a PK player myself, I'll definitely need to invest some time to figure out how best to utilize her as well.

As with Alustar this is not personally at you, the thing is that someone who can stand toe to toe with their opponents and trade with them because they have the fastest attacks just is not a counter attacker. Over the past year nearly everything that involves her being reactive and fitting in with her paradigm has been nerfed on favour of keeping her 500-400 light-lights and 400 zone (which were what drove her toxic reputation to begin with) and now I need to get to the finisher to get to what was given to her in this update I have to throw those lights in order to get the mind game going.

Peacekeeper started as and has gradually become more someone who might as well be called an harasser only berserker does it better and she gets less and less reward from being reactive. Other than that Valkyrie is probably the most badass character on the roster the fact that she has tools to react to her opponent and go into her damage from that is a good part of why I am working on her first now I have moved to another platform and is the character I will likely spend most time on while I can't bring myself to use peacekeeper, who was my original main, as my go to assassin let alone for her own benefit.

HazelrahFirefly
05-18-2018, 02:38 AM
I side with Candle on this one. It actually feels a bit like playing Valk now. A ton of work to get anywhere and with little reward. I feel like I dont even have a main anymore (felt like this for two seasons actually, and it is hollowing).

I'm now even more scared of what might become of the Valkyrie. What if I dislike her rework too? Orochi and PK are gone, I only have Valk, HL, and Shaman left, and I'm already bored of Shaman.

Kahnjul
05-18-2018, 05:14 AM
The peacekeeper feels like a mosquite
a weak mosquito

okay something had to be done with her values but 20 dmg ? For a heavy ?! What kind of sick joke is that, don't tell me assassin's musn't have high damage : 35 heavy for a orochi, 35/50 for his deflect ! ad these moves aren't even that hard to do, plus they have a ****ton of fast attacks tat does over 20 dmg, and can chain really easily

i just can't see the end of my opponent's health, her values are so miserable and the nerf went on everything : heavyes, lights, bleed after heavy (i'm not sure about the rest) and it's combined with the massive dodge nerf

now her best option is deflect for a decent 30~35 dmg i guess, or gb + triple stab : but these aren't enough now, these two moves capitalize a lot on opponent's mistakes

How did this happen ? I understand the direction of the PK but her values are in no way correct, or at least, she need one attack that can actually be a threat for something else than raw speed.

In one word : Orochi became the pre-nerf pk (like, for real this is stupid, it's so obvious) and she is just frustrating to play at an insane level : no fun comes from struggling to obtain a half damaged ennemy and being crushed by a ****ing 40 dmg fast attack

KotoKuraken
05-18-2018, 05:29 AM
Orochi is the new PK. He's got the exact same speed as her (aside from the zone), except he's also got a double light. He also does more damage than all of PK's moveset; His lights, dash attacks, heavies, and zone all do more damage than PK.

On top of that, both of his deflect options outdamage her deflect. HIs basic light deflect outdamages her bleed deflect, and he's even got a heavy deflect for more damage as well.Heck, a single Orochi light attack does more than her dodge heavy does

He's got everything PK has, but more.

Can we have a re-rework of PK? She's now worse than Valk is with her complete lack of tools and damage

Siegfried-Z
05-18-2018, 09:02 AM
Pk is now broken so no nerf for him i gess.. just the bleeds stack are nice but the overall dmg are low except bleeds now.

And no really more opener as this new Dagger feitn is not even as good as the Sham one.

Orochi is now an unstopable lights no skills spam Char now BTW...