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View Full Version : Reflex guard startup delay and chains



PepsiBeastin
05-15-2018, 09:31 PM
I feel like this needs to be looked at. From what I've heard assassins have a 100ms guard startup delay over other classes, which brings reactability down considerably. I know I'm blocking, my guard stick is even moving in the animation, yet my guard takes too long to switch after taking a hit so i just eat the next hit. With hitstun + the delayed guard, I feel like quick infinite chains have too much of an advantage over assassins. I'm constantly seeing conquerors stunlocking assassins with infinite lights, and I know the pain. Also I'm pretty sure from my experience that dodging has a slightly longer delay after taking a hit, like 150ms or something. So that basically puts deflecting out of quick light chains out of the question.

IBAPTIZEDGOD
05-16-2018, 02:04 AM
this statement.....

I believe is true....

or I'M trying to parry prematurely but i don't think that's what the problem is.

I think what it comes down to is that this game has two vastly different variations, one on PC and one on console. and the two are constantly fighting each other for balance.the Assassin on PC keeps getting parried, and the assassin on console keeps getting hit.

KotoKuraken
05-16-2018, 02:46 AM
I made a post about this just the other day and it never got huge attention. Literally the most bs spam that's easily blocked by anyone with a normal guard is super hard to block by reflex guard

Alustar.
05-16-2018, 03:46 AM
Block less, dodge more.

IBAPTIZEDGOD
05-16-2018, 04:02 AM
Block less, dodge more.

I believe the OP is referring to infinite combos, and I could be wrong but i think you cannot dodge them once you have been locked into it.

PepsiBeastin
05-16-2018, 04:04 AM
Block less, dodge more.

With Shinboi I ONLY dodge/deflect unless I'm fighting aramusha or kensei. It's borderline impossible to deflect out of spam combos such as conq/aramusha lights. I swear the actual dodge window has to be less than 50ms (Just to activate a dodge at all, not deflect). Also, do you know why kensei gets a free light after hitting a heavy on assassins? Is this every character or just reflex guard, because I'll be holding my damn thumbstick in the direction I see it coming from and nothing happens. I don't know if the hitstun + reflex guard delay just makes it impossible to block (like subsequent hits of zerker zone if you get hit with a single one).

KotoKuraken
05-16-2018, 04:13 AM
Block less, dodge more.

You can't dodge if you're getting hit by an infinite chain. If you can't block the attack, you more than surely cannot dodge it

PDXGorechild
05-16-2018, 12:28 PM
Block less, dodge more.


You can't dodge if you're getting hit by an infinite chain. If you can't block the attack, you more than surely cannot dodge it

@OP It does need looking at but listen to Alu. For the time being, dodging is superior on Assassins and much more fun imo. Plus you'll sometimes get accidental deflects. I only ever block when I'm trapped and facing multiple opponents on Assassins, or when I know the chain is too fast to dodge out of. Learning when you can and can't will up your game considerably.

Why block something when you can simply move out of the way?

Alustar.
05-16-2018, 12:56 PM
I can agree that hit stun recovery needs an adjustment for assassins. Aramusha was developed as an assassin killer. However, I feel that a hero who achieves this by manipulating the current hit stun to a point where your timing for regaining footing is limited is wrong. so much that you've got fractions of a second to recover or else you end up eating hits. I personally don't feel the answer was to introduce a hero that hits so fast in succession that most assassin players are left with only a couple options.
That being said, it's not like it's impossible to overcome these problems by changing your own tactics. As I've already mentioned blocking should not be your first response to an aggressor. And in the face of Musha, conquerer, and I guess Kensei? You should focus more on zoning and effective range. Stay just out of their effective range and you limit nearly every move they have. Wait for them to strike first or force them to use an obvious gap closer, then respond. Always be ready for dodge bait, as those lead to untechable GBs. Countering these characters are hard, yes. But that's the point, every hero has a hard counter in another hero. Learn your match ups, train against what troubles you and you can improve, because until they look into hit stun(which I highly doubt they ever will) failing to find a creative means around this is only going to lead to you becoming more upset.

Kelson27
05-16-2018, 02:43 PM
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/kd27/video/50624407

You can definitely get some deflects going through chains, but Ara is still a huge pain in the *** on console though. Iíve been banging on about this for a while now too, the delay into reflex guard should go. It doesnít make sense that a character based so much on reflex has a hard time reacting to things.

PepsiBeastin
05-16-2018, 04:00 PM
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/kd27/video/50624407

You can definitely get some deflects going through chains, but Ara is still a huge pain in the *** on console though. Iíve been banging on about this for a while now too, the delay into reflex guard should go. It doesnít make sense that a character based so much on reflex has a hard time reacting to things.

All training bot actions are delayed by 100ms, it isn't a good indicator. Also, the issue is deflecting in the combo after getting hit, not the first attack.

KitingFatKidsEZ
05-16-2018, 05:35 PM
Reflex guard literally disappears instantly if you get hit right after switching guard. Check out this video.

https://youtu.be/Y04LTYZZiNU?t=8m22s

PepsiBeastin
05-16-2018, 05:46 PM
Reflex guard literally disappears instantly if you get hit right after switching guard. Check out this video.

https://youtu.be/Y04LTYZZiNU?t=8m22s

I think that's just the assassin's 100ms guard startup. The accepted theory is that since deflect used to happen just by blocking right before an attack hits (in that 100ms window), when they removed this feature they never actually replaced it with normal guard, so now there's just a 100ms hole.

KitingFatKidsEZ
05-16-2018, 05:49 PM
I think that's just the assassin's 100ms guard startup. The accepted theory is that since deflect used to happen just by blocking right before an attack hits (in that 100ms window), when they removed this feature they never actually replaced it with normal guard, so now there's just a 100ms hole.

After he switches guard there is a period where the guard is moved but the indicator stays black << thats the delay. (very easy to see in the slowed down portions)

Then it becomes full -->guard switched
Then he gets hit and it instantly depletes

Kelson27
05-17-2018, 04:33 AM
All training bot actions are delayed by 100ms, it isn't a good indicator. Also, the issue is deflecting in the combo after getting hit, not the first attack.
You're kidding... What's the point then? Has this been expressed in patch notes or something? If that's the case then Ara is actually ridiculous.

KotoKuraken
05-17-2018, 06:08 AM
@OP It does need looking at but listen to Alu. For the time being, dodging is superior on Assassins and much more fun imo. Plus you'll sometimes get accidental deflects. I only ever block when I'm trapped and facing multiple opponents on Assassins, or when I know the chain is too fast to dodge out of. Learning when you can and can't will up your game considerably.

Why block something when you can simply move out of the way?

You can't dodge if you've already gotten hit. You cannot do it. You cannot dodge if you are already stunlocked by the attack, and dodging is limited more than blocking is. You. Can't. Dodge. When. You're. Stunlocked. By. Infinite. 500ms. Light. Chain.

Camemberto
05-17-2018, 08:19 AM
Guard switch delay must go. Period. It's dumb and makes no sense.

KotoKuraken
05-18-2018, 03:41 AM
If I put the input to block the attack, I shouldn't have to wait an additional 100ms to block that attack, especially with 3 heroes now having 400ms lights in their chains