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View Full Version : A second look at Warden (rework)



Knight_Raime
05-15-2018, 01:44 AM
So i've made a big transition in play style and mind set through season 5 which has landed me playing some of the "lesser" heros lately like warden. I originally did a huge thread about giving small tweaks to every hero in the game. But i've changed my mind. Those changes for some heros are either not the right ones or are not enough. So i'm going back and giving proper rework right ups for heros again. I can't guarantee this will be a regular thing or if I do more when the next one will come. I'll play it by ear. I've decided to address Warden because i've basically fallen in love with the character. (plus he's quite popular.) I can't guarantee that my changes are the right ones or if he will need more. But i'm fairly confident in my choices. So lets get in:

~Remove warden stumble when whiffing a GB into OOS.
~Side lights are now 500ms from neutral.
~Fully charged bash time is currently 1200ms. It's been reduced to 800-900ms.
~Top heavy finisher is now unblockable and has armor.
~New soft feint for Warden. it's a half sworded stab that ignores all armor. It can only come from the left or right side. is canceled into from any side heavy or his shoulder bash. the bash cancel is 300ms or sooner into the bash. Which is the current cancel window for his soft feint into GB. It's a light attack that does 10-12 damage. And the input is a light. it's 500ms.

Now for explaining. The whiff is just un needed. it like valks stumble serve no purpose and only hurts the kit. 500ms side lights to bring wardens options up to date a little bit. You can go top light for the attempted crushing counter or side light for a bit more damage. Both will have purpose. But I decided against making the side lights in combo 500ms to avoid some escaping issues with the bash light loop. I'm unsure if an issue would arise but i'd rather play it safe.

The faster charged bash is for multiple reasons. It gives more use to the attack. it means people might go for that max punish more often. It makes it a bit safer and gets you armor sooner without really changing up the move timing itself. Bash would still be really easy to punish if over used as it's recovery on whiff especially when charged fully is really bad. (currently 800ms on fully charged whiff. free gb for everyone basically.) Essentially this one small change makes the move a lot more usable without making it an immediate balance problem.

Top heavy finisher being buffed in such action is to enhance the games already played with wardens top guard. Players who are familiar with this will not suddenly be crushed by the new changes. Same situation happened with zerkers buff. No armor on sides because I don't want to turn warden into a trading machine. It would just step on the toes of other heros to me.

This new soft feint is what puts Warden on the map. As reworks have added in more armor on kits and i've no doubt future reworks will add more armor some where. It means warden won't be harassed by armor spam anymore. Giving it 2 places to soft feint from is so he's got options. Restricting it to side heavies is to keep it managable since top stance has it's own mix up games. and not making it omni directional cancel is to not stop on shaman's toes. This also fits Warden thematically as half swording is a technique in which to combat foes in armor. The stun itself would be equivalent to Gladiators toe poke. Meaning it makes the person stumble and resets the fight to neutral.

I'm sure 500ms might not be fast enough. Or that bringing down the full charge time to 800ms might be too far. I'll let people who are more familiar with match ups inform me. But I think overall this is a good rework for Warden.

IBAPTIZEDGOD
05-16-2018, 12:23 AM
the purpose of the charged bash is to punish characters who A. dash to early or B. dash attack, (or at least that is how I use it) I'm not sure that making it faster would help, in fact it might make it too fast and cause you to bash before your opponent has finished their early reaction to the SB, everything else sounds great.

SpaceJim12
05-16-2018, 03:02 PM
Thing that Warden should get for sure is counter attack similar with HL counters. I mean, Highlander as character just get this mechanic from Warden, but modifaed to better state. So Warden should be able to counter from any direction, with the same input as HL have. This is not even a rework, it's just improvment for mechanic.

Knight_Raime
05-16-2018, 11:43 PM
the purpose of the charged bash is to punish characters who A. dash to early or B. dash attack, (or at least that is how I use it) I'm not sure that making it faster would help, in fact it might make it too fast and cause you to bash before your opponent has finished their early reaction to the SB, everything else sounds great.

If that was it's intended design it's doing a poor job because it has basically no tracking what so ever and the time it takes to charge gives someone plenty of time to escape since the warden is stuck to the bash 300ms after starting it.


Thing that Warden should get for sure is counter attack similar with HL counters. I mean, Highlander as character just get this mechanic from Warden, but modifaed to better state. So Warden should be able to counter from any direction, with the same input as HL have. This is not even a rework, it's just improvment for mechanic.

I don't want that for warden. Highlander needs it because his defensive stances offense is poor and he needs a bump of help in order to get going. Warden doesn't need that because he's short and sweet and has decent offense regardless of how he's playing.