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lceUp
05-14-2018, 03:27 PM
Hey Devs
I believe that you have the PK rework all wrong. I'm coming from a slightly biased standpoint as PK has been my main since the beginning of the game but I think it's non sense that you increased her dodge recovery and nerfed all her damage. I mean when you put things into perspective, the shaman can headbutt you for a guaranteed interrupt, gets guard break immunity when ever she dodges do to her overly fast dodge heavy (thats as fast as a light attack), plus she can cancel her heavies into bleeds to any side she wants and gets health back using neck bite. It absolute bogus what you are doing to the PK in my opinion. You guys are making a formidable character even easier to kill by decreasing all her damage and increasing dodge recovery time. There are heros that are super OP (Berzerker, Highlander, Kensei, Shaman) and you choose to focus on the one hero that basically needs no work done? It just doesn't make sense to me guys. I think you need to bring some punishing aspects to a few of the OP characters listed above because currently that list of OP character above can spam certain abilities with very little risk and the fact that PK will seem even more punishable than ever is going to define the meta even further. I think PK should be able to cancel her bleed in any direction for starters and in terms of her damage output I ask that you PLEASE act with haste when you get the data in terms of the PKs overall performance because its going to be really ****ty if I have to wait an entire season in order to enjoy playing as my main again. I've supported your game from the beginning through thick and thin (lagged out of matches 100x), convinced a few of my buddies to actually buy the game and still play on a weekly basis. All i ask is you don't screw the pooch on what I believe to be one of the games most iconic characters. DO NOT make me wait an entire season to get your **** right on this topic PLEASE!!!

Sincerely
-A loyal warrior

KitingFatKidsEZ
05-14-2018, 07:38 PM
According to the stats PK had a HIGHER winrate in duels than PRE NERF! shaman.
https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-320343-16/state-of-balance-season-4-recap

Let that sink in for a moment.

The character was completely busted and i doubt the changes will be enough to make her more average as all the things that make her really broken are still there, they just do a little bit less damage.

58% winrate in a 1v1 fighting game is insane.

RenegadeTX2000
05-14-2018, 07:47 PM
According to the stats PK had a HIGHER winrate in duels than PRE NERF! shaman.
https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-320343-16/state-of-balance-season-4-recap

Let that sink in for a moment.

The character was completely busted and i doubt the changes will be enough to make her more average as all the things that make her really broken are still there, they just do a little bit less damage.

58% winrate in a 1v1 fighting game is insane.

I had a 60% win ratio with pre patch highlander. Now it's shot up to 74% win ratio after patch. But you are talking about everybody using that 1 character. Yeah I agree lol, she gets wins. Berserker is looking the same way now. Tools to fight anybody in the game. An obvious pick for any serious 1v1 player

KitingFatKidsEZ
05-14-2018, 07:51 PM
Berserker is looking the same way now. Tools to fight anybody in the game. An obvious pick for any serious 1v1 player

Yea i agree with bersker. Hes definitely better than most characters but he has some average matchups and some very easy matchups. The easy matchups in particular make serker pretty broken.

I can certainly see why the run of the mill pk would have trouble with the current berserker style.

Charmzzz
05-14-2018, 08:26 PM
Zerk and Conq are S-Tier now, PK will be maybe A-Tier after rework. I think all those damage tweaks are a bit too much combined, the rest is fine.

Knight_Raime
05-15-2018, 01:20 AM
Shaman's headbutt is dodgable on reaction and only lands against competent players if you trick them into it. A raw one will be met with a GB or worse everytime. And her heavy cancel into bleeds only works from a neutral heavy and it has incredibly short range. The only time this actually gets used is if you trick your opponent into a dodge so you can GB them and go for a heavy cancel into top bleed poke where it's 100% confirmed. Otherwise the heavy cancel into bleed never lands.

Every damage nerf PK got was well deserved. She had a stupidly high damage profile for being the safest hero in the game. Her dodge recovery now being 600ms practically changes nothing. as 600ms side dashes are fast enough to dodge and punish on reaction to most mix ups. 500ms let you escape certain things you really shouldn't be escaping. and it made her too safe. Her dagger cancel is usable now and she can now do both dagger cancel AND soft cancel into GB with heavy finishers now. Meaning she'll still keep the pressure up. She just isn't hitting you with a nuke everytime.

KotoKuraken
05-15-2018, 05:57 AM
Reason why PK was overpowered was because she had the longest backdodge in the game, and could spam it a lot. Both the frequency of the backdodge and the distance were severely reduced, which gets rid of her advantage entirely. Now what does she have? An easily parried bleed attack because it can only come from one direction, severely less damage than her carbon copy Viking counterpart, no bashes unlike her carbon copy Viking counterpart, and no healing, unlike the one hero in the game who can deal 50 damage and heal herself at the same time with no risk to her own health.

PK may have ruled Season 4, but she's most likely dropped down below Berserker, Kensei, Conq, and Gladiator

CandleInTheDark
05-15-2018, 09:12 AM
and no healing, unlike the one hero in the game who can deal 50 damage and heal herself at the same time with no risk to her own health.

I get it, people don't like Shaman, but seriously misinformation just makes people sound like they are crying over nothing and doesn't help their purpose any.

If people read the dodge they can hit her out of the attack if they are close enough, if they are further away they can dodge and land a guardbreak. Done the latter plenty of times on xbox and PC so no there is no console 30fps issue either. Sure she can trick you with cancels but then that is an issue of not being predictable and outplaying the opponent and that is no different to any other hard or soft feint or cancel.

Charmzzz
05-15-2018, 09:34 AM
Reason why PK was overpowered was because she had the longest backdodge in the game, and could spam it a lot. Both the frequency of the backdodge and the distance were severely reduced, which gets rid of her advantage entirely. Now what does she have? An easily parried bleed attack because it can only come from one direction, severely less damage than her carbon copy Viking counterpart, no bashes unlike her carbon copy Viking counterpart, and no healing, unlike the one hero in the game who can deal 50 damage and heal herself at the same time with no risk to her own health.

PK may have ruled Season 4, but she's most likely dropped down below Berserker, Kensei, Conq, and Gladiator

Hm, I'm not sure if you see how good her opening options are now. What you can do from neutral: Zone 400ms, Right Heavy - let it fly or soft-feint into GB or Top Dagger cancel. So, from neutral your opponent cannot just put his guard to his right and be almost completely safe anymore. Good turtles will still be very good against PK, cause she still lacks an UB opener...

lceUp
05-15-2018, 03:46 PM
What I see here is a lack of utility in comparison to her S tier counter parts. The nerf in damage will no doubt drag her down because it take even more hits to kill players now. Not only that but debuff resistance will negate all her new strengths. I mean think about PK match up against the lawbringer. Your going to have to hit this fool twice as many times as he hits you. Not only that but now that her dodge is worse PK is going to be even more punishable which pisses me off cuz you've got these berserkers and shamans running rampant with far less risk taken on any of there move set, ITS ****ING ********. I'm pretty disappointed that PK is getting the nerf in comparison to a characters that can dodge forwards and back at violent speeds, plus being practically immune to guard break on there dodge heavies. There was alot of other characters that needed a rework before PK, but well see how bad Ubi screws this up. Probably going to have to wait an entire season or two to return her to a place of true balance especially considering the fact that other characters are being buffed. But hey at least theres PUBG.

EvoX.
05-15-2018, 04:15 PM
Haha, you mean Stunning Tap 2.0? What a joke of a ''rework''.

RenegadeTX2000
05-15-2018, 08:53 PM
that stunning tap 2.0 is still better than Aramusha. lmao

EvoX.
05-15-2018, 09:24 PM
that stunning tap 2.0 is still better than Aramusha. lmao

You got me there.

Shavalen
05-15-2018, 09:52 PM
I think the nerfs to the Pk were heavily needed,as I also think the shammy is needing a nerf as well. Here is something I found to prove my point https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bk6y7jw2ujLrjm0Zzbb4aEZUV13gyGoy-IobrkfNgaY/edit#gid=0 I expect alot of fan boys to hate me for this,cause their Op Hero might not be so Godly after the patch. In essence the playing field has been leveled some.Adaptation might be the biggest ally you have now.

Shavalen
05-15-2018, 11:34 PM
I think I need to reword my post.I have nothing aginst PK's or the people who play them.I made this post after a hard day,so forgive my irritated rantings. The problem I have is when the Devs (no offence) make a character with little to no weaknesses. That's where my irritations lies.Just wanted to make that clear

HighWithEagle
05-16-2018, 01:09 AM
Keep crying pk mains your tears bring me join. It's kind of pathetic honestly, the pk has been god teir for 5 seasons in a row now and after one rework the pk player base is up in arms crying "unfair!" maybe you should have learned to play a hero that was cheap from the start?

KotoKuraken
05-16-2018, 02:12 AM
I get it, people don't like Shaman, but seriously misinformation just makes people sound like they are crying over nothing and doesn't help their purpose any.

If people read the dodge they can hit her out of the attack if they are close enough, if they are further away they can dodge and land a guardbreak. Done the latter plenty of times on xbox and PC so no there is no console 30fps issue either. Sure she can trick you with cancels but then that is an issue of not being predictable and outplaying the opponent and that is no different to any other hard or soft feint or cancel.

You have severely misinterpreted my point. Shugo does 40 damage to himself if he misses, then also gets punished. Shaman doesn't do damage to herself, even though hers is faster, does more damage, and can be spammed again and again if she misses, and she can do hers guaranteed on any guardbreak, which you literally cannot dodge if she does initiate it from a guardbreak throw.

CandleInTheDark
05-16-2018, 03:58 AM
You have severely misinterpreted my point. Shugo does 40 damage to himself if he misses, then also gets punished. Shaman doesn't do damage to herself, even though hers is faster, does more damage, and can be spammed again and again if she misses, and she can do hers guaranteed on any guardbreak, which you literally cannot dodge if she does initiate it from a guardbreak throw.

And again you are either forgetting things or exaggerating. Shugoki has access to demon's embrace at all times, that is what the speed and risk of damage counters, shaman has to get prerequisite bleed first which unless they have bleed teammates in 4v4 is harder, against good players, than most of the people making this argument pretend it is.

As for can go for it again and again and again, a simple sidestep dodge leaves them vulnerable to guardbreak before they get off the second and even if they don't get guardbroken (meaning their opponent has a learn to play issue quite honestly) they still have a stamina cost that prevents them looping it.

KotoKuraken
05-16-2018, 04:19 AM
And again you are either forgetting things or exaggerating. Shugoki has access to demon's embrace at all times, that is what the speed and risk of damage counters, shaman has to get prerequisite bleed first which unless they have bleed teammates in 4v4 is harder, against good players, than most of the people making this argument pretend it is.

As for can go for it again and again and again, a simple sidestep dodge leaves them vulnerable to guardbreak before they get off the second and even if they don't get guardbroken (meaning their opponent has a learn to play issue quite honestly) they still have a stamina cost that prevents them looping it.

I'm not forgetting anything, I listed out all the things and it's not exaggeration. Shugoki and Shaman both get punished if they miss, but Shugoki physically takes health damage if he misses before any punish begins. That brutally hurts him because he also takes more health damage when his hyperarmor is down, making his healthpool more like an assassin's when the hyperarmor is down. He can easily lose 3/4 of his health off of just one miss between his own self-punish and the enemy's punish. That's not an exaggeration either.

CandleInTheDark
05-16-2018, 05:54 AM
I'm not forgetting anything, I listed out all the things and it's not exaggeration. Shugoki and Shaman both get punished if they miss, but Shugoki physically takes health damage if he misses before any punish begins. That brutally hurts him because he also takes more health damage when his hyperarmor is down, making his healthpool more like an assassin's when the hyperarmor is down. He can easily lose 3/4 of his health off of just one miss between his own self-punish and the enemy's punish. That's not an exaggeration either.

The thing is people are requesting all the drawbacks of demon's embrace while not taking into mind the benefits predators mercy lack. When Shaman has the move available at all times and scaling damage up to and including a one hit ko or the opposite is true of shugoki in that he no longer has these that is when you talk about balancing them in the same way.

Charmzzz
05-16-2018, 08:31 AM
First, this thread is about PK and not Shaman or Shugoki iirc.
Second, you really compare Pred Mercy with Demon Embrace? Then you have to consider that Shugo can do this: play completely defensive, wait for Hyperarmor to refresh and get a GB through the opponents attack. Then wallsplat into Demon Embrace. That is what high tier Shugos do in Duel all the time. Shaman cannot do that to get Pred Mercy off. She needs the bleed first and then most people are prepared to dodge the followup.
Third, in ganking situations the Pred Mercy is far inferior than Demon Embrace because it gets interrupted by any attack. When the Shugo got you with another mate nearby, you are 100% dead.

CandleInTheDark
05-16-2018, 08:49 AM
First, this thread is about PK and not Shaman or Shugoki iirc.

Yeah sorry about that, the whole let's add shugoki penalties to a move without shugoki benefits is just one that has gone since pretty much the day season 4 dropped.