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Nokhchalla
05-13-2018, 09:53 PM
I dont understand what the hell the devs are thinking with this ******ed POS character?!

She can continously use that jump attack to regenerate her HP and her GB throws are 50 meters too? Not to mention her tracking is another 50 meters as well.

This POS character should never have been introduced in this game, it should be deleted.

Charmzzz
05-14-2018, 08:23 AM
I dont understand what the hell the devs are thinking with this ******ed POS character?!

She can continously use that jump attack to regenerate her HP and her GB throws are 50 meters too? Not to mention her tracking is another 50 meters as well.

This POS character should never have been introduced in this game, it should be deleted.

Ok, some true Infos on Shaman, not your biased nonsense:

- Shaman only regenerates (very small) HP if you are bleeding and she hits you. Do apply bleed she has to do a Deflect on you or work very hard to get it...
- Jump Attack can be dodge / parried
- GB throw is mediocre, it is not comparable to Warlord GB throw, Raider Stampede or Lawbringer Impale. Yes, with the jump followup you will be pushed pretty far. Still, nothing compared to the guys I mentioned.
- Tracking does not have any "distance" check. Tracking only works on startup of any move, if you get hit you dodged too early. Fact.
- You have problems with a Character, so it should be deleted? Sounds pretty childish.

Camemberto
05-14-2018, 10:35 AM
Ok, some true Infos on Shaman, not your biased nonsense:

- Shaman only regenerates (very small) HP if you are bleeding and she hits you. Do apply bleed she has to do a Deflect on you or work very hard to get it...
- Jump Attack can be dodge / parried
- GB throw is mediocre, it is not comparable to Warlord GB throw, Raider Stampede or Lawbringer Impale. Yes, with the jump followup you will be pushed pretty far. Still, nothing compared to the guys I mentioned.
- Tracking does not have any "distance" check. Tracking only works on startup of any move, if you get hit you dodged too early. Fact.
- You have problems with a Character, so it should be deleted? Sounds pretty childish.

- very hard is a gross overstatement. She can softfeint almost every heavy attack into a bleed stab, which are incredibly fast too... So applying bleed is really easy.
- CAN doesn't mean it isn't very very hard to do, because of how fast it comes out and on any direction too... should only come on top IMO.
- mediocre, are you kidding? You compared her to two very heavy characters, of course it's going to be lower than those. It's WAY out of control for an assassin type character. MUST be nerfed, no doubt about it.
-
- a LOT of people have problems with her. She does need attention.

DrinkinMyStella
05-14-2018, 10:47 AM
I do struggle against shaman, More about her super fast attacks and her soft feints into GB and bleed, you can't beat em join em :)

Nokhchalla
05-14-2018, 11:09 AM
Ok, some true Infos on Shaman, not your biased nonsense:

- Shaman only regenerates (very small) HP if you are bleeding and she hits you. Do apply bleed she has to do a Deflect on you or work very hard to get it...
- Jump Attack can be dodge / parried
- GB throw is mediocre, it is not comparable to Warlord GB throw, Raider Stampede or Lawbringer Impale. Yes, with the jump followup you will be pushed pretty far. Still, nothing compared to the guys I mentioned.
- Tracking does not have any "distance" check. Tracking only works on startup of any move, if you get hit you dodged too early. Fact.
- You have problems with a Character, so it should be deleted? Sounds pretty childish.

Ah who would have thought, the assassin lover obviously had to show up.

- I dont care how much HP she regenerates (which is alot btw), but what is this anyway? Why is there an attack that regenerates ones HP in this game? All other characters have a feat to do that and this one can spam this attack over and over smh.

- Jump attack can indeed be dodged lol, who knew right? That's not the problem though, the problem is you can only dodge it if you see her dashing backwards, if she is just about to move forward and you press space there's a half second delay and you wont be able to dodge, but since you dont play anything other than your fast PK I guess you are clueless in that regard.

- GB throw is mediocre, are you insane? Raiders stampede and LB impale are not GB throws, they are attacks (even though Raider can GB stampede, that doesnt count) and Shamans throw is stronger than both of those characters.

- Tracking attacks on ALL characters are too far, should be reduced. Tired of seeing these characters fly 50 meters and still hit you. It doesnt have anything to do with dodge because even if you do dodge/roll you will get hit by Kensei, Shaman and PK again if you try to run. Fact.

- I along with the rest of the community have a problem with this POS character and I guarantee you over 50% of the community would vote for a delete of this character if Ubisoft ever did a poll. So yea, sounds pretty childish aye?

HazelrahFirefly
05-14-2018, 11:34 AM
Aye, does sound childish. I get it though, reminds me of my complaints against the Aramusha.

You admit that if you dodge too early you get hit by the Shaman (among others)... well, come on man, that's on you obviously.

The Shaman barely heals from her bleed sponging, and the bite has to be done immediately for any worthwhile gain.


I'm actually with you on the tracking, though for different reasons. I dont like tracking in videogame in general, fighting games especially. You either do the work to score the hit or you miss. The automatic-hits are rampant in this game and I hate it.

Arekonator
05-14-2018, 11:40 AM
The combined throw + headbutt is more distance than WL throw and thats simply too much. I agree on that one.

Charmzzz
05-14-2018, 11:48 AM
I can beat Shamans on my Warden (not playing Assassins only...). This Thread is almost the same as the "Gladiator OP - no effort to win" from someone else. What did I do? I played about 10 Duels vs him on Gladiator. He won 2 Rounds in all those Matches, although he said that Gladiator Zone is so OP that he wins 90% of his Duels...

- Predator's Mercy heals for 20 HP, hits are what, 3 HP per hit heal? Could be 10% or something like that, so even less on Light hits...
- Top Dodge Heavy attacks are 700,600 and 500ms depending on the attack stance. If you cannot react on those attacks, well, every other 500ms attack is impossible to block for you, too?
- GB throw is really mediocre. Followed up by Predator's Hunger it becomes a "good" throw. Still not the best in game.
- Tracking is fine, you just have to time your dodge. If you have problems with Tracking, how about Highlander Caber Toss which is probably the hardest move to dodge and guarantees a Heavy?
- I can reliably dodge all your mentioned "Tracking" dodge-attacks. If you dodge too early, your fault. There are some "undodgeable" moves like Zerker dodge-side-attack, but those you mentioned are not.

So you assume that 50% of the community have a problem with Shaman. Evidence? Nah, only a biased nonsense argument. Shaman is really not S-Tier, never was. Have a look what Zerker and Conq can do atm...

IAmOddGirl
05-14-2018, 12:20 PM
It's a really fun fight on my Lawbringer vs Shamans who actually know what they are doing. I don't see the problem there. If you duel someone and its freaking neck and neck rounds that isnt unbalanced that's a RUSH!!! Sure if you mess up and take punishment it sucks, but just because you got a good chunk of health taken away doesn't mean forget everything you know about defense and curl up into the fetal position and load up the forums to give shamans a dressing down.

All in all..
If you put as much time and effort into working on winning as you do into thinking about losing, You'd already have a champion's heart.

Alustar.
05-14-2018, 12:35 PM
Shaman can be dealt with rather easily by practicing against her mix ups and timings. I know this is by far a completely foreign concept to players like yourself, who would much rather whine on the forums about whatever it is that upset them, rather than learn why you fell victim in the first place.
Your arguments are wildly off base, for starters, shaman CANNOT repeatedly use predators mercy. She can only use it once, then the bleed that enablea her blood trance is consumed. Secondly her throw distance has been nerfed, so really you are just regurgitating complaints that are months old at best. Maybe instead of complaining, you could ask for help from someone who runs shaman frequently? Wait, never mind, that would imply your game play needs assistance, and I forgot I'm talking to the highest ranked MMR player that's won every duel/tourney he's ever been in since for honor was released 7 years ago. XD

Kryltic
05-14-2018, 12:44 PM
The only real issues with her are:

Her insane range for throwing people. Its way too high for an assassin and needs bringing down a lot, or at least don't allow it to ledge (personally I'd rather see the distance reduced).

When she jumps on you, there is no health penalty on a miss. Admittedly I'm is comparing it to Demons Embrace which, in reality shouldn't have a health penalty either.

IIRC she can soft feint any (or at least most) attacks in the bleed hit and thats in any direction. It should just be a top hit only attack like the soon to be reworked Peacekeepers dagger.

Charmzzz
05-14-2018, 01:01 PM
IIRC she can soft feint any (or at least most) attacks in the bleed hit and thats in any direction. It should just be a top hit only attack like the soon to be reworked Peacekeepers dagger.

No, you cannot do that. Here are all her Cancels:

Cancels - Predator's Hunger, Predator's Mercy, and Wild Cat's Rage can be canceled with B (XB1), E (PC) and O (PS4).
Guard Break Cancel - Heavy Attacks can be Cancelled into a Guard Break by pressing X (XB1), MMB (PC) and ⬜ (PS4).
Dodge Cancel - Heavy Finisher can be Cancelled with Dodge by pressing A (XB1), Space (PC) and X (PS4).
Mountain Lion's Power - Finish any Chain with Left Heavy for an Unblockable Attack.
Good Blood Omen - Blood Omen starts with two Light Attacks. If you hit with the first Light, perform the second Light in the same stance to make it strike faster.
Throw Shortcuts - Throw can shortcut to Wild Cat's Rage with RT (XB1), RMB (PC) and R2 (PS4), Throw can shortcut into Predator's Hunger with X (XB1), MMB (PC) and ⬜ (PS4). In Blood Trance, Throw can shortcut into Predator's Mercy with X (XB1), MMB (PC) and ⬜ (PS4).
Zone Attack Cancels - Can be Cancelled with B (XB1), E (PC) and O (PS4) after the second strike. Can be Cancelled into Raven's Bile after the second strike.


She has three bleed attacks:

Raven's Claw (After Chain)
Raven's Bile (During a Heavy Opener or Zone Attack)
Raven's Beak (Deflect)

When I face Shamans they rarely get me bleeding. And if I EXPECT her to use Predator's Mercy very soon, so I prepare to dodge and punish...

BTTrinity
05-14-2018, 01:27 PM
As I hate her design more than anything in this game, and would love if she got removed... We all know this isnt going to happen....

Honestly at this point the main issues I have with her is that her throw distance is off the charts for an assassin, and her run speed.

Her throw range needs to literally be halved if her headbutt is guaranteed afterwards... Even after her nerfs she still has the best gap closer, the best hp, the best survivability, best CC.... like rly? Why make these things blatantly better then the rest of the assassins.

Usually when theres a jack of all trades, its master of none... but in shamans case we have a jack of all trades, master of all

SlickCriminal27
05-14-2018, 01:27 PM
shaman can be dealt with rather easily by practicing against her mix ups and timings. I know this is by far a completely foreign concept to players like yourself, who would much rather whine on the forums about whatever it is that upset them, rather than learn why you fell victim in the first place.
Your arguments are wildly off base, for starters, shaman cannot repeatedly use predators mercy. She can only use it once, then the bleed that enablea her blood trance is consumed. Secondly her throw distance has been nerfed, so really you are just regurgitating complaints that are months old at best. Maybe instead of complaining, you could ask for help from someone who runs shaman frequently? Wait, never mind, that would imply your game play needs assistance, and i forgot i'm talking to the highest ranked mmr player that's won every duel/tourney he's ever been in since for honor was released 7 years ago. Xd

lol

Charmzzz
05-14-2018, 01:33 PM
As I hate her design more than anything in this game, and would love if she got removed... We all know this isnt going to happen....

Honestly at this point the only real issue I have with her is that her throw distance is off the charts for an assassin.

Her throw range needs to literally be halved if her headbutt is guaranteed afterwards... Even after her nerfs she still has the best gap closer, the best hp, the best survivability, best CC.... like rly? Why make these things blatantly better then the rest of the assassins.

Usually when theres a jack of all trades, its master of none... but in shamans case we have a jack of all trades, master of all

Huh? 120 HP, standard for Assassins. Best Gap Closer, I agree, her Top Dodge Attack is the best in the game atm. Best Surviveability? Cause her minimal heal or what? Dont agree there. Any static guard champ with lots of hyperarmor has better surviveablitity than her. Best CC? What? No! Lawbringer, Valk, Gladiator, Centurion, Raider, Shinobi, Shugoki to name a few are comparable or even better when it comes to CC.

Nokhchalla
05-14-2018, 01:37 PM
Shaman can be dealt with rather easily by practicing against her mix ups and timings. I know this is by far a completely foreign concept to players like yourself, who would much rather whine on the forums about whatever it is that upset them, rather than learn why you fell victim in the first place.
Your arguments are wildly off base, for starters, shaman CANNOT repeatedly use predators mercy. She can only use it once, then the bleed that enablea her blood trance is consumed. Secondly her throw distance has been nerfed, so really you are just regurgitating complaints that are months old at best. Maybe instead of complaining, you could ask for help from someone who runs shaman frequently? Wait, never mind, that would imply your game play needs assistance, and I forgot I'm talking to the highest ranked MMR player that's won every duel/tourney he's ever been in since for honor was released 7 years ago. XD

And here ladies and gentleman we have the PK's little weasel friend always ready to back him up when the truth has been spitten.

What other characters have you seen me "whine" about on the forums except for Shaman? None. Besides im not whining, im spitting the truth little Shaman main, I know it hurts, but Shaman is still OP.

My arguments are wildly on point actually, for veterans, Shamans predators mercy should be nerfed, just yesterday I was dealt 65 damage on my LB's FULL DEFENSE build, can you imagine that? 65 damage on a full defense build how pathetic is that?. And yea I've tested it with a Shaman friend.

Secondly, her throw hasnt been nerfed enough, it is too powerful for an assassin, the fact that you dont want to admit your little golden child is OP already confirms that your brain needs a little upgrade.

So yea, you should change your profile picture to "My cause is lost" cause that's exactly what it is.

SlickCriminal27
05-14-2018, 01:44 PM
And here ladies and gentleman we have the PK's little weasel friend always ready to back him up when the truth has been spitten.

What other characters have you seen me "whine" about on the forums except for Shaman? None. Besides im not whining, im spitting the truth little Shaman main, I know it hurts, but Shaman is still OP.

My arguments are wildly on point actually, for veterans, Shamans predators mercy should be nerfed, just yesterday I was dealt 65 damage on my LB's FULL DEFENSE build, can you imagine that? 65 damage on a full defense build how pathetic is that?. And yea I've tested it with a Shaman friend.

Secondly, her throw hasnt been nerfed enough, it is too powerful for an assassin, the fact that you dont want to admit your little golden child is OP already confirms that your brain needs a little upgrade.

So yea, you should change your profile picture to "My cause is lost" cause that's exactly what it is.

damn you rekted him with this one hahahahahhahah

Devils-_-legacy
05-14-2018, 01:52 PM
The only thing I can agree with is her throw plus bash it goes further then warlords that is bs and her leap attack when there locked on and your out of range she runs half the map and catches up in seconds( i fought they got rid of this?) other then that she's strong but everything she has can be punished to some degree imo

Alustar.
05-14-2018, 01:56 PM
Do you kids even know what "OP"actually means in context? Or is that just another term you throw around because you think having said it validates your claims.
The only thing you are "spitting" is the same tired excuses of every other player that has refused to learn to adapt to s movers move set that is not only highly predictable, but incredibly punishable by competent players. If shaman are truly overpowered, there would be no way any player not using a shaman could win. But that's not the case, most of the veteran players here have given accurate feedback on how to properly counter her, but you refuse to listen, and instead want to go on some butt hurt tirade about how the shaman needs to be removed. That kind of stance is exactly why you will continue to have problems with her, because you lack the calm demeanor to accept your own faults and learn to adapt.

BTTrinity
05-14-2018, 01:59 PM
Huh? 120 HP, standard for Assassins. Best Gap Closer, I agree, her Top Dodge Attack is the best in the game atm. Best Surviveability? Cause her minimal heal or what? Dont agree there. Any static guard champ with lots of hyperarmor has better surviveablitity than her. Best CC? What? No! Lawbringer, Valk, Gladiator, Centurion, Raider, Shinobi, Shugoki to name a few are comparable or even better when it comes to CC.

I did say out of assassins more than once (In case you dont understand, Im comparing her abilities to the other assassins)

Her lunge attack is the best in the game, period. Its just as fast as PK's lunge who's always comes from top, but on top of making it the quickest we also give it the ability to come from any direction.

Yes, standard HP (Which happens to be the highest) when combo'd with her "Minimal heal" gives her the best survivability and HP

The ONLY ONES that you named out of those with better CC than Shaman is Raider, LB, and Shinobi (But as previously stated about 5 times, im trying to compare her to assassins) and their CC is only "Better" when they're all in 4v4's. In 1v1's Shamans CC ****s on everyone you just named.

The reason Im comparing her to assassins is, whatever another assassin does... Shaman does just as good, if not better, with twice as much ease.

Devils-_-legacy
05-14-2018, 01:59 PM
She's stronger then she should be as a Jack of all trades

Arekonator
05-14-2018, 02:02 PM
Calling better ledging ability than WL "mediocre" is being dishonest at best.

Charmzzz
05-14-2018, 02:08 PM
Calling better ledging ability than WL "mediocre" is being dishonest at best.

You have actual measures of distance traveled in comparison? I don't. But it feels like they are on par at best, imo WL travels further. And not as far as Impale or Stampede.

To the other guys: you DO know that Zerker and Conq are the best heroes atm? Kensei and Highlander are close together with PK, then, after a big gap, comes the Shaman. I don't play Shaman btw, sometimes I get pwned by one, but that happens with every Character as long as the guy playing him knows what he is doing.

If Shaman is as strong as you say, come face me in a Duel. You pick Shaman, I pick Warden / Gladiator / PK, you decide.

Nokhchalla
05-14-2018, 02:09 PM
Do you kids even know what "OP"actually means in context? Or is that just another term you throw around because you think having said it validates your claims.
The only thing you are "spitting" is the same tired excuses of every other player that has refused to learn to adapt to s movers move set that is not only highly predictable, but incredibly punishable by competent players. If shaman are truly overpowered, there would be no way any player not using a shaman could win. But that's not the case, most of the veteran players here have given accurate feedback on how to properly counter her, but you refuse to listen, and instead want to go on some butt hurt tirade about how the shaman needs to be removed. That kind of stance is exactly why you will continue to have problems with her, because you lack the calm demeanor to accept your own faults and learn to adapt.

Hmm what OP actually means? Hm let me guess, Ostrich Power?

The fact that these "tired excuses" keep coming up again and again should tell you something, now ofcourse for a Shaman main like you I understand you dont want her nerfed. But that is what she needs.

Most of the veteran players here agree with me on most points, the ******** with Shaman is the fact that her damage is so high for being so fast, has insane GB throw and that jumping HP regenerating ******** attack that no other character has.

You suddenly shifted your tone towards me and now started talking about "calm demeanor" haha nice one.

EvoX.
05-14-2018, 02:11 PM
Calling Shaman overpowered in mid 2018, seriously?

Try going OOS against a Conqueror or beating the feint game of a great Zerker. Shaman is nothing compared to those two.

Nokhchalla
05-14-2018, 02:13 PM
Calling Shaman overpowered in mid 2018, seriously?

Try going OOS against a Conqueror or beating the feint game of a great Zerker. Shaman is nothing compared to those two.

OOS against a Conq is indeed messy, but I've never really had a problem with Zerker or Conq.

BTTrinity
05-14-2018, 02:13 PM
Calling Shaman overpowered in mid 2018, seriously?

Try going OOS against a Conqueror or beating the feint game of a great Zerker. Shaman is nothing compared to those two.

Thats your opinion, I have far less issues with those two than I do with Shaman when it actually comes down to it.

EvoX.
05-14-2018, 02:15 PM
Thats your opinion, I have far less issues with those two than I do with Shaman when it actually comes down to it.

You having more issues with Shaman than the top 2 heroes doesn't mean she's overpowered...

BTTrinity
05-14-2018, 02:18 PM
You having more issues with Shaman than the top 2 heroes doesn't mean she's overpowered...

Nope, but having blatantly better (Almost) everything compared to her class-type does.

Charmzzz
05-14-2018, 02:21 PM
Calling Shaman overpowered in mid 2018, seriously?

Try going OOS against a Conqueror or beating the feint game of a great Zerker. Shaman is nothing compared to those two.

This, thanks... I guess they never met someone who knows how to use those 2 Heroes well.

EvoX.
05-14-2018, 02:22 PM
Nope, but having blatantly better (Almost) everything compared to her class-type does.

It was already said on stream that she's supposed to be the jack of all trades. Also, the original cast is getting reworked, Conq, Zerk and Kensei are already better than her in most ways. Highlander didn't even get reworked and also jumped above her. Orochi seems like he'll be an extreme speedster, so boom - Shaman will be worse than him in speed and agility. PK will still be PK, mostly.

So if all the rest of the reworks are the same, you don't really have a point.

Arekonator
05-14-2018, 02:23 PM
You have actual measures of distance traveled in comparison? I don't. But it feels like they are on par at best, imo WL travels further. And not as far as Impale or Stampede.
I dont, but i recall someone providing it somewhere. IIRC Warlord travels further on forward throw, but shaman pushes you further inevery other direction.
And and while its indeed shorter than impale or stampe, its also omnidirectional + gets bonus chance to ledge if victim gets stuck on edge of railing or something similar.

The core of my issue is, those characters are build around moving you around, its their gimmick. While she gets comparable ability as a "bonus", "just because"

BTTrinity
05-14-2018, 02:36 PM
This, thanks... I guess they never met someone who knows how to use those 2 Heroes well.

And you never met someone who knows who to use Shaman well..

See how that works? It doesnt, it just means I have an easier time reacting to those two than I do with a character that you have an easier time with. (people are different, who would have thought?)


It was already said on stream that she's supposed to be the jack of all trades. Also, the original cast is getting reworked, Conq, Zerk and Kensei are already better than her in most ways. Highlander didn't even get reworked and also jumped above her. Orochi seems like he'll be an extreme speedster, so boom - Shaman will be worse than him in speed and agility. PK will still be PK, mostly.

So if all the rest of the reworks are the same, you don't really have a point.

Usually Jack of all trades means master of none, (Definitely not the case with her) Arekonator said it very well with "those characters are build around moving you around, its their gimmick. While she gets comparable ability as a "bonus" this applies to far more than just her ability to move you around.

Also, Orochi's gap closers are 500ms and above (Up to 700ms) so hes definitely not faster

How about the part where she keeps up with super-sprinting shinobi with ease? The bish shouldnt be faster than his regular sprint, let alone keeping up with his Super Sprint.

Charmzzz
05-14-2018, 02:44 PM
And you never met someone who knows who to use Shaman well..

See how that works? It doesnt, it just means I have an easier time reacting to those two than I do with a character that you have an easier time with. (people are different, who would have thought?)



Usually Jack of all trades means master of none, (Definitely not the case with her) Arekonator said it very well with "those characters are build around moving you around, its their gimmick. While she gets comparable ability as a "bonus" this applies to far more than just her ability to move you around.

Also, Orochi's gap closers are 500ms and above (Up to 700ms) so hes definitely not faster

How about the part where she keeps up with super-sprinting shinobi with ease? The bish shouldnt be faster than his regular sprint, let alone keeping up with his Super Sprint.

Gap Closers will be equal on Orochi and Shaman after the Oro Rework, so that is one argument gone by telling she has "the best gap closers".

Sprint Speed on Shaman is slower than PK or, maybe, as fast as PK, who has the fastest standard sprint. Shaman definitely cannot keep up with Shinobi super sprint.

BTTrinity
05-14-2018, 02:53 PM
Gap Closers will be equal on Orochi and Shaman after the Oro Rework, so that is one argument gone by telling she has "the best gap closers".

Sprint Speed on Shaman is slower than PK or, maybe, as fast as PK, who has the fastest standard sprint. Shaman definitely cannot keep up with Shinobi super sprint.

Shamans gap closer is 400-600ms - Orochi's is 500-700ms - No my argument is not gone.

Shinobi sprint speed raw estimate: 10.18 km/h
Shinobi Supersprint speed raw estimate: 10.69 km/h
Shaman sprint speed raw estimate: 9.47 km/h

She's definitely not gonna fall behind him any time soon, thats for sure.

Charmzzz
05-14-2018, 02:59 PM
Shamans gap closer is 400-600ms - Orochi's is 500-700ms - No my argument is not gone.

Shinobi sprint speed raw estimate: 10.18 km/h
Shinobi Supersprint speed raw estimate: 10.69 km/h
Shaman sprint speed raw estimate: 9.47 km/h

She's definitely not gonna fall behind him any time soon, thats for sure.

Shaman Forward Dodge Attack is 500 - 700ms, same as Orochi. Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970

Forward Dodge Top Heavy: 700ms
Forward Dodge Left Heavy: 600ms
Forward Dodge Right Heavy: 500ms

Shaman having the same speed is wrong, too. She won't catch him, that's what it's all about.

BTTrinity
05-14-2018, 03:15 PM
Shaman Forward Dodge Attack is 500 - 700ms, same as Orochi. Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970

Forward Dodge Top Heavy: 700ms
Forward Dodge Left Heavy: 600ms
Forward Dodge Right Heavy: 500ms

Shaman having the same speed is wrong, too. She won't catch him, that's what it's all about.

Fair enough, I forget where my info came from (watched a video that Fady sent me a LONG time back and remember being really upset about a 400ms gap closer, maybe that was the WCR bug)

With the tracking of her gap closer she easily does catch him though, theres been a few posts about it since shes been released

HazelrahFirefly
05-14-2018, 03:39 PM
This is all so stupid.

Difficulty is subjective. That's it.

I don't have a problem with Shamans at all. I do have a problem with Aramusha, a hero that most laugh off. 19/20 times I dont even get to play against Ara. I see him like some of you see Shaman.

I dont even have Shaman in my top 5 or maybe even 10 opponents. Why? Because difficulty is subjective. Yes, Shaman may feel OP for the rest of your FH days, the same as I believe Aramusha will for me. That's how it works.

Devils-_-legacy
05-14-2018, 04:14 PM
Difficulties may be subjective but the aspects of her kits isn't but my only issue is really her throw + bash as assassin i cant see why her ledge potential is so amazing

lceUp
05-14-2018, 04:25 PM
Biggest issue with this character is her dodge attack. Every other assassin can be caught out of there dodge attack with a guard break. Shaman and berserker (occasionally) are immune to guard break as soon as they enter their dodge. It's pretty bogus and allows the users to spam this attack with very little risk. Forget parrying it btw it comes out as fast a light attack and does heavy damage. This is the biggest flaw with this character imo. Tweek this and she will be balanced.

DrinkinMyStella
05-14-2018, 04:29 PM
...And this ladies and gentleman is why for honor is known as the most toxic cancerous community, look at how a thread turns, the OP mentioned his problems with shaman which is perfectly fine, then a constructive debate starts, then insults start flying!! Where the hell is the moderation to keep things on a civil level.

HazelrahFirefly
05-14-2018, 04:37 PM
Biggest issue with this character is her dodge attack. Every other assassin can be caught out of there dodge attack with a guard break. Shaman and berserker (occasionally) are immune to guard break as soon as they enter their dodge. It's pretty bogus and allows the users to spam this attack with very little risk. Forget parrying it btw it comes out as fast a light attack and does heavy damage. This is the biggest flaw with this character imo. Tweek this and she will be balanced.

Interesting because, I have a far, FAR, harder time catching the PK, Zerk, and even Kensei during their dodge attacks. Shaman is easy to grab by comparison.

Difficulty is subjective.

Lord_Cherubi
05-14-2018, 05:50 PM
The thing about shaman is that she has the complete kit. UB attacks, dodge attacks, decent throws and the feint stab (which is a pretty cheesy way to apply a bleed if u ask me).

If every other hero would get the same amount of love from the devs than she clearly has gotten the game would be much healthier experience.

I myself dont have huge issues fighting shamans 1v1 besides the left UB heavy (that and the charged Cent heavy UB i can never parry).

She is just a pain in the *** in teamfights lol

Knight_Raime
05-15-2018, 01:22 AM
This is an L2P issue my dude. She has the most viable kit in the game compared to every other hero yes. But she also is hard punished for making the proper read on her by basically everyone in the cast. She's fine.

Camemberto
05-15-2018, 08:14 AM
I don't understand how saying "Zerk and Conq are even worse, so Shaman must be fine" is even an argument in your opinion...

Shaman is Objectively stronger than almost all the other characters in the game. Having Ubisoft add or rework other characters, that are even more cheesy, doesn't fix her in any way.

Also saying her throw is now OK, just because it has been nerfed once is such a stupid thing to say.
It's like adding mandatory microtransactions into a game and then stop complaining, because the price has been nerfed to only cost you HALF a fortune.

Charmzzz
05-15-2018, 09:15 AM
Oh Camemberto, your way of saying it is definitely not what I (or others) wanted to show. Let me put it this way: how can Shaman be massively OP and a problem if there are at least 3 other Characters with better, more viable movesets?

When somebody says "Shaman is a problem", then uses wrong Informations to underline his argument, it's just nonsense. Give me any Character and I can let him look like he is super-OP, ezpz...

Shaman is, imo, very balanced and every Character should have a comparable kit. Zerk, Conq and Highlander are a little bit too high, others are a little bit too low compared to Shaman. I say: "nerf/buff others to be on par with Shaman".

DrinkinMyStella
05-15-2018, 09:45 AM
IMO shaman is too fast or at least it seems that way, she throws attacks that just seem to be hard to react to, its like her UB changes its speed throughout the movement, its starts slowly then goes a lot faster which it hard to judge when to parry, and she can also soft feint too close to the point of contract, many heroes have been nerfed for this, warden SB 50/50 into GB got nerfed, Cent soft feint into GB got nerfed and now they are much more predictable when the soft feint will come, where as shaman, can soft feint into GB or into bleed at the very last min, so baiting it much easy than other heroes. I just think her soft feint delay shouldn't be as close to the point of contact so for example if her UB is 700ms then you should only be able to soft feint before 300ms instead of what feels like 100ms, Dont quote me on those figures its just an example.

Charmzzz
05-15-2018, 10:03 AM
Shaman UB Heavy Chain Finisher is 1100ms and soft-feintable within the first 200 - 400ms. This attack NEVER lands on me anymore when in a 1v1. I trained myself to be patient and wait until the indicator flashes, then parry. Everything before will be a free GB for her.

Edit: Wait, I think it is also countered by any 500ms attack, isn't it? Even with stagger you should have enough time to hit a Light (which she cannot soft-feint GB). :confused:

DrinkinMyStella
05-15-2018, 10:11 AM
Shaman UB Heavy Chain Finisher is 1100ms and soft-feintable within the first 200 - 400ms. This attack NEVER lands on me anymore when in a 1v1. I trained myself to be patient and wait until the indicator flashes, then parry. Everything before will be a free GB for her.

Edit: Wait, I think it is also countered by any 500ms attack, isn't it? Even with stagger you should have enough time to hit a Light (which she cannot soft-feint GB). :confused:

It feels like she can soft feint much quicker, maybe its her animation idk but thats what catches me out. I've been using my zerker and once a shaman gets going, I find it hard to interrupt her, i desperately try to dodge of roll out the way so I can start a chain but she seems to be too aggressive and interrupts my attacks first. I had a lot of time off and missed all of season 5 and the end of season 4 so admittedly I have not had much experience against a shaman so that could be why I find her a struggle. I think I need to play her and rep her up to really get a feel on how to counter her.

Charmzzz
05-15-2018, 10:37 AM
It feels like she can soft feint much quicker, maybe its her animation idk but thats what catches me out. I've been using my zerker and once a shaman gets going, I find it hard to interrupt her, i desperately try to dodge of roll out the way so I can start a chain but she seems to be too aggressive and interrupts my attacks first. I had a lot of time off and missed all of season 5 and the end of season 4 so admittedly I have not had much experience against a shaman so that could be why I find her a struggle. I think I need to play her and rep her up to really get a feel on how to counter her.

You are Zerker and you get interrupted? You are doing it wrong, sorry Bro. ;)

Here is what you do: feint a heavy and use your hyperarmored 400ms light followup to fck everybody up...

DrinkinMyStella
05-15-2018, 12:09 PM
You are Zerker and you get interrupted? You are doing it wrong, sorry Bro. ;)

Here is what you do: feint a heavy and use your hyperarmored 400ms light followup to fck everybody up...

lol dw im not a complete scrub with my zerker :cool: yeah I always start a chain to before im in range to get the HA going and its fine once I start a chain, I take full advantage of his heavy feints HA but if a shaman has already engaged me when I was unexpected then I find it hard to get out of her attacks to be able to start my chain.

HazelrahFirefly
05-15-2018, 12:21 PM
If a Shaman starts her UB than throw out a side light.

Not saying it will be 100% gauranteed, that depends on the skill of the Shaman player.

HazelrahFirefly
05-15-2018, 12:24 PM
I don't understand how saying "Zerk and Conq are even worse, so Shaman must be fine" is even an argument in your opinion...

Unless I am mistaken you obviously are directing this comment at me?

Not even remotely what I said. Don't try and twist my words.

PDXGorechild
05-15-2018, 01:03 PM
And here ladies and gentleman we have the PK's little weasel friend always ready to back him up when the truth has been spitten.

What other characters have you seen me "whine" about on the forums except for Shaman? None. Besides im not whining, im spitting the truth little Shaman main, I know it hurts, but Shaman is still OP.

My arguments are wildly on point actually, for veterans, Shamans predators mercy should be nerfed, just yesterday I was dealt 65 damage on my LB's FULL DEFENSE build, can you imagine that? 65 damage on a full defense build how pathetic is that?. And yea I've tested it with a Shaman friend.

Secondly, her throw hasnt been nerfed enough, it is too powerful for an assassin, the fact that you dont want to admit your little golden child is OP already confirms that your brain needs a little upgrade.

So yea, you should change your profile picture to "My cause is lost" cause that's exactly what it is.

The difference between these two people and you is that they offer consistent, constructive and well thought out advice about the game, generally without p*ssing people off. They're also both experienced and good players from what I know. I've played with one of them. Never once have either made a "Wahhhhh I want this class Nerfed" thread as far as I know, so i'd rather take their word than yours.


As I hate her design more than anything in this game, and would love if she got removed... We all know this isnt going to happen....

Honestly at this point the main issues I have with her is that her throw distance is off the charts for an assassin, and her run speed.

Her throw range needs to literally be halved if her headbutt is guaranteed afterwards... Even after her nerfs she still has the best gap closer, the best hp, the best survivability, best CC.... like rly? Why make these things blatantly better then the rest of the assassins.

Usually when theres a jack of all trades, its master of none... but in shamans case we have a jack of all trades, master of all

I don't agree. She is a well rounded class with plenty of options and a viable kit, yeah. But no moves that are obviously overpowered. Much like the Gladiator, I believe this class should be the benchmark to which all the other classes should be reworked to. The only change I would perhaps make to Shaman is reducing her HP to 110 like the Shinobi, considering her mobility and "Jack of all trades" style.


It feels like she can soft feint much quicker, maybe its her animation idk but thats what catches me out. I've been using my zerker and once a shaman gets going, I find it hard to interrupt her, i desperately try to dodge of roll out the way so I can start a chain but she seems to be too aggressive and interrupts my attacks first. I had a lot of time off and missed all of season 5 and the end of season 4 so admittedly I have not had much experience against a shaman so that could be why I find her a struggle. I think I need to play her and rep her up to really get a feel on how to counter her.

People find it hard to counter Zerker once he "Gets going" as well. That's kinda the point of the class. Let one corner you and get in full flow and you're meant to suffer. You need to control the space, predict the feints and shut them down before they "Get going".

Personally I love seeing a Shaman whilst playing Berserker. I churn most of them up. Sure the very skilled ones are a challenge, but as said before, so is any class in the right hands...

Nokhchalla
05-15-2018, 01:18 PM
The difference between these two people and you is that they offer consistent, constructive and well thought out advice about the game, generally without p*ssing people off. They're also both experienced and good players from what I know. I've played with one of them. Never once have either made a "Wahhhhh I want this class Nerfed" thread as far as I know, so i'd rather take their word than yours.

And where exactly did I piss people off? You can go ahead and tell that to alustar24 since he's always the instigator.

This is not a "Wahh nerf this class" thread, my points are valid points as you can clearly see and you yourself know. Shaman needs further nerfing or the devs need to rework the original heroes faster.

Alustar.
05-15-2018, 01:22 PM
...And this ladies and gentleman is why for honor is known as the most toxic cancerous community, look at how a thread turns, the OP mentioned his problems with shaman which is perfectly fine, then a constructive debate starts, then insults start flying!! Where the hell is the moderation to keep things on a civil level.

Actually, if you go back and look at the transcript of the entire thread, the OP was the one who started throwing out wild, baseless insults at anyone who didn't agree with his sentiment. Particularly at myself and Charmzzz.
Oh look, I provided quotes! :D


Ah who would have thought, the assassin lover obviously had to show up.

- I dont care how much HP she regenerates (which is alot btw), but what is this anyway? Why is there an attack that regenerates ones HP in this game? All other characters have a feat to do that and this one can spam this attack over and over smh.

- Jump attack can indeed be dodged lol, who knew right? That's not the problem though, the problem is you can only dodge it if you see her dashing backwards, if she is just about to move forward and you press space there's a half second delay and you wont be able to dodge, but since you dont play anything other than your fast PK I guess you are clueless in that regard.

- GB throw is mediocre, are you insane? Raiders stampede and LB impale are not GB throws, they are attacks (even though Raider can GB stampede, that doesnt count) and Shamans throw is stronger than both of those characters.

- Tracking attacks on ALL characters are too far, should be reduced. Tired of seeing these characters fly 50 meters and still hit you. It doesnt have anything to do with dodge because even if you do dodge/roll you will get hit by Kensei, Shaman and PK again if you try to run. Fact.

- I along with the rest of the community have a problem with this POS character and I guarantee you over 50% of the community would vote for a delete of this character if Ubisoft ever did a poll. So yea, sounds pretty childish aye?


And here ladies and gentleman we have the PK's little weasel friend always ready to back him up when the truth has been spitten.

What other characters have you seen me "whine" about on the forums except for Shaman? None. Besides im not whining, im spitting the truth little Shaman main, I know it hurts, but Shaman is still OP.

My arguments are wildly on point actually, for veterans, Shamans predators mercy should be nerfed, just yesterday I was dealt 65 damage on my LB's FULL DEFENSE build, can you imagine that? 65 damage on a full defense build how pathetic is that?. And yea I've tested it with a Shaman friend.

Secondly, her throw hasnt been nerfed enough, it is too powerful for an assassin, the fact that you dont want to admit your little golden child is OP already confirms that your brain needs a little upgrade.

So yea, you should change your profile picture to "My cause is lost" cause that's exactly what it is.

The problem with these types of comments is they undermine the community due to an inability to admit ones own faults. The OP displays a very blind hatred for anything that contradicts his own views. The real problem with this community is that you can't have a logical discourse with the majority of casual posters here with out it devolving to them assuming they are beyond the need to improve. All of the veteran players like myself are rather humble, in that we know our place in the games competitive hierarchy and none of us have ever claimed to be beyond the need to practice and learn to counter what wrecks us. I know for a fact I've disagreed on several points with each of them, Raime, Vakris, Charmzzz, Candle, Fady and Gore, but that doesn't mean that we devolve to base name calling or the like. And anytime we have issues we lean on each other to grow and develop our play styles.

Nokhchalla
05-15-2018, 01:30 PM
Actually, if you go back and look at the transcript of the entire thread, the OP was the one who started throwing out wild, baseless insults at anyone who didn't agree with his sentiment. Particularly at myself and Charmzzz.
Oh look, I provided quotes! :D

The problem with these types of comments is they undermine the community due to an inability to admit ones own faults. The OP displays a very blind hatred for anything that contradicts his own views. The real problem with this community is that you can't have a logical discourse with the majority of casual posters here with out it devolving to them assuming they are beyond the need to improve. All of the veteran players like myself are rather humble, in that we know our place in the games competitive hierarchy and none of us have ever claimed to be beyond the need to practice and learn to counter what wrecks us. I know for a fact I've disagreed on several points with each of them, Raime, Vakris, Charmzzz, Candle, Fady and Gore, but that doesn't mean that we devolve to base name calling or the like. And anytime we have issues we lean on each other to grow and develop our play styles.

You are pretty good at trying to win people over to your side arent you hahaha, did you perhaps forget about the first post of yours directed towards me? Yea, that is the reason I threw insults especially towards you, since it's not the first time you have done that.

Alustar.
05-15-2018, 01:48 PM
And where exactly did I piss people off? You can go ahead and tell that to alustar24 since he's always the instigator.

This is not a "Wahh nerf this class" thread, my points are valid points as you can clearly see and you yourself know. Shaman needs further nerfing or the devs need to rework the original heroes faster.


I dont understand what the hell the devs are thinking with this ******ed POS character?!

She can continously use that jump attack to regenerate her HP and her GB throws are 50 meters too? Not to mention her tracking is another 50 meters as well.

This POS character should never have been introduced in this game, it should be deleted.

This isn't a what kind of thread, now?

Alustar.
05-15-2018, 01:49 PM
I dont understand what the hell the devs are thinking with this ******ed POS character?!

She can continously use that jump attack to regenerate her HP and her GB throws are 50 meters too? Not to mention her tracking is another 50 meters as well.

This POS character should never have been introduced in this game, it should be deleted.


You are pretty good at trying to win people over to your side arent you hahaha, did you perhaps forget about the first post of yours directed towards me? Yea, that is the reason I threw insults especially towards you, since it's not the first time you have done that.

What, because I told you that you needed to practice? Sure ok. That was my bad, I forgot your the highest ranking player on for honor. XD

Charmzzz
05-15-2018, 02:29 PM
Please OP, go to the competitive reddit of For Honor and see what real pro-players think about it. Not one of us is playing tournaments. Some are higher ranked (I think Vakris and me are Top 5% on PC - Europe, don't know the rest) but the majority are casual players.

So, if you don't want to listen to our arguments, go here and get some feedback of even better players: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/

And please tell us, I really want to see the comments.

Nokhchalla
05-15-2018, 02:33 PM
What, because I told you that you needed to practice? Sure ok. That was my bad, I forgot your the highest ranking player on for honor. XD

So you think you are something now cause you are the highest ranking player? HAHAHA and by exactly what are you the highest ranking player? Kills? If that's so, I suppose your playtime would be close to 100 days or something, nothing groundbreaking about that lol, anyone can achieve that by playing for as long as you.

My points about Shaman are still valid though, yet here you are trying to twist the convo into who is the highest ranking player and how great you are. How pathetic.

DrinkinMyStella
05-15-2018, 02:38 PM
People find it hard to counter Zerker once he "Gets going" as well. That's kinda the point of the class. Let one corner you and get in full flow and you're meant to suffer. You need to control the space, predict the feints and shut them down before they "Get going".

Personally I love seeing a Shaman whilst playing Berserker. I churn most of them up. Sure the very skilled ones are a challenge, but as said before, so is any class in the right hands...

ah I didn't think about it like that, people most likely think the same about me when im playing zerker, I mentioned on another post that I stopped playing all throughout S5 and the end of S4 so I think I just need more experience against her or I may start using her to understand her moveset and mixups.

Charmzzz
05-15-2018, 02:45 PM
So you think you are something now cause you are the highest ranking player? HAHAHA and by exactly what are you the highest ranking player? Kills? If that's so, I suppose your playtime would be close to 100 days or something, nothing groundbreaking about that lol, anyone can achieve that by playing for as long as you.

My points about Shaman are still valid though, yet here you are trying to twist the convo into who is the highest ranking player and how great you are. How pathetic.

Holy, that was embarassing. For you. :D

Please, read his post again. And edit yours. Btw your points on Shaman won't become globally valid if you say they are valid.

Charmzzz
05-15-2018, 02:49 PM
@DarkManChe: Looked up your profile on FH-Tracker. Not bad, but playing Lawbringer ONLY (<1 hour on other Characters combined) and then come to the Forum to complain about a class that is basically paper vs your rock, is, well, I won't end this sentence...

Nokhchalla
05-15-2018, 02:56 PM
Holy, that was embarassing. For you. :D

Please, read his post again. And edit yours. Btw your points on Shaman won't become globally valid if you say they are valid.

Im not going to edit anything, let him explain. As i also said earlier I've played alot against lvl 3 Shaman bots for practice and a friend of mine as well, so I wouldnt exactly call it "rock vs paper".

Getting embarassed over a video game? Come on dude...

PDXGorechild
05-15-2018, 03:23 PM
ah I didn't think about it like that, people most likely think the same about me when im playing zerker, I mentioned on another post that I stopped playing all throughout S5 and the end of S4 so I think I just need more experience against her or I may start using her to understand her moveset and mixups.

Yeah most people will dude, especially now. Zerk is admittedly very hard to defend against since the rework if the player knows how to feint well and makes himself unpredictable. I see him as Scissors to the Shamans paper. Get to know how she works and you should steamroll most of them. I played her to prestige 1 to get a feel for it.


And where exactly did I piss people off? You can go ahead and tell that to alustar24 since he's always the instigator.

This is not a "Wahh nerf this class" thread, my points are valid points as you can clearly see and you yourself know. Shaman needs further nerfing or the devs need to rework the original heroes faster.

I'm not here to argue, it's boring.

Bottom line is the dev's said they wanted to bring older classes up to the standard of the newer classes, most of which pro and average players alike have said are well-rounded, viable and fun to play. I agree with this notion. Bringing up Gladiator, Shaman and Highlander again as examples. Zerk and Conq are now up there with them or higher. Hopefully Orochi and PK will be a similar level as of Thursday this week. Kensei is now in a pretty good place. This only leaves a few others in dire need of attention like Valkyrie, Shugoki and even Centurion. Personally i'd rather wait longer and Ubisoft do a proper job, rather than rushing the reworks and spewing out a load of crap that nobody likes. Likewise i'd rather wait for every class to be reworked up to the standard of the better ones than have the better ones smashed with the nerf bat when they're actually fine, if you learn their moveset and how to react to it.

Anyway if you're that confident Shaman truly is overpowered, take up Charmzz' offer and play Shaman against him playing any of those other classes.

Do make sure you record and upload it too ;)

Charmzzz
05-15-2018, 03:25 PM
Im not going to edit anything, let him explain. As i also said earlier I've played alot against lvl 3 Shaman bots for practice and a friend of mine as well, so I wouldnt exactly call it "rock vs paper".

Getting embarassed over a video game? Come on dude...

No, embarassing that you completely missed what he said in the text. He never said that he is a high ranked player. He said that YOU sound like someone claiming that he is a high ranked FH player and knows everything... You got it now?

It is exactly rock vs paper because Lawbringer is designed as a defensive turtle, just an example: the shove-on-block-mechanic. Shaman especially was designed to crack turtles. So, you are complaining that your "counter" is very good against you.

Btw Lawbringer was only 1% behind Shaman in Duel-Winrate (and Number 3 overall) in Season 4, concerning the Top 2.5% of players: https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-320343-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32

Oh and Lawbringer has the highest Winrate of ALL Characters in Dominion with an exceptional 54.1%.

Oh, and btw Lawbringer will receive nerfs:

We don’t think Lawbringer is too strong in 1v1. His current ranking is mainly due to the annoyance of shove on block that paired with his high health pool and a lot of patience can lead to a slow but sure win. We are looking at this ability and also as you’ll see below is performance in 4v4.
Lawbringer’s main strength are his set of bomb Feats and his Impale move. We are looking at Impale and the different situations where it can be guaranteed. This move when successfully executed often lead to a player kill in a 1vN situation.

Alustar.
05-15-2018, 03:40 PM
So you think you are something now cause you are the highest ranking player? HAHAHA and by exactly what are you the highest ranking player? Kills? If that's so, I suppose your playtime would be close to 100 days or something, nothing groundbreaking about that lol, anyone can achieve that by playing for as long as you.

My points about Shaman are still valid though, yet here you are trying to twist the convo into who is the highest ranking player and how great you are. How pathetic.

If you can point out anywhere in my entire posting history where I've claimed to be a top player, I'll leave the forums on the spot.
The fact is I've never claimed that. In fact by my own admission I'm below average at best. I know first hand I've fueled two players from these forums, Fadey and Gorechild, both of which wrecked me. I maybe won one duel against Fadey, none against Gorechild. and that wasn't using my shaman, it was my PK. The closest I've ever come to varying Gore was with PK, simply because her fast double lights and superior zone option are better than anything in shamans entire kit.

Your points against shaman aren't valid, they aren't facts. They are opinions. If you aren't willing to take the advice given, you will never adapt and advance your own play style.

PDXGorechild
05-15-2018, 03:54 PM
If you can point out anywhere in my entire posting history where I've claimed to be a top player, I'll leave the forums on the spot.
The fact is I've never claimed that. In fact by my own admission I'm below average at best. I know first hand I've fueled two players from these forums, Fadey and Gorechild, both of which wrecked me. I maybe won one duel against Fadey, none against Gorechild. and that wasn't using my shaman, it was my PK. The closest I've ever come to varying Gore was with PK, simply because her fast double lights and superior zone option are better than anything in shamans entire kit.

Your points against shaman aren't valid, they aren't facts. They are opinions. If you aren't willing to take the advice given, you will never adapt and advance your own play style.

You are humble, maybe too much :o

Is Fady still about? Don't think I ever got around to duelling him.

Shame we're all cross platform really, i'd be so up for an organised forum 4v4!

See DarkManChe, we're all quite agreeable folk. Leave your ego at the door and try to learn. It's the only way forward mate ;)

SpaceJim12
05-15-2018, 03:57 PM
Well, you must clearly understand difference between duels and 4v4 mods.

First things first, everything that Shaman do can be counter. In perfect conditions of the duels, where are only you and your opponent, Shaman even can be weak.
The situation could change fast in 4v4 mods. There are a lot reasons for it, like good gear stats, Xv1 situation etc.


I dont care how much HP she regenerates (which is alot btw), but what is this anyway? Why is there an attack that regenerates ones HP in this game? All other characters have a feat to do that and this one can spam this attack over and over smh.

I do not see any Shaman that could "just spam" attacks to regenerate health. I mean, if you play on char like Highlander you even don't care what she doing there, under your feet. Your single heavy with HA could make 10 times bigger dmg, that Shaman could heal spaming at the same time.
So this "cool thing" never helps in any gamemode.


Jump Attack can be dodge / parried

Agree on that. While it's annoying in 1vX fights, it's not a Shaman thing. PK top jump attack and Glad top jump fust enough to be spamed in gunks successfuly.


Tracking is fine, you just have to time your dodge. If you have problems with Tracking, how about Highlander Caber Toss which is probably the hardest move to dodge and guarantees a Heavy?

The real problem here are latency. You could successfuly dodged from every Shaman's head bush and than meet one, that had different timing for this dodge.
The most problems with tracking that I can see now it's, obviously Caber Toss, that looks stupid even in animations and Valky shield bush after full block stance.
The only thing that makes Shaman headbutt really hard to react is that easier input to instantly second try. So if two Shaman will spam this move you could be compleatly helpless. But still have sense only in 4v4 mods.



So, in conclusion, if you have problems with Shaman in duels, you just need practice. If you refered to some exact troubles with her in 4v4 mods, some situation just need teamwork or good turtling before help could arrive. That's all.

Nokhchalla
05-15-2018, 04:01 PM
No, embarassing that you completely missed what he said in the text. He never said that he is a high ranked player. He said that YOU sound like someone claiming that he is a high ranked FH player and knows everything... You got it now?

It is exactly rock vs paper because Lawbringer is designed as a defensive turtle, just an example: the shove-on-block-mechanic. Shaman especially was designed to crack turtles. So, you are complaining that your "counter" is very good against you.

Btw Lawbringer was only 1% behind Shaman in Duel-Winrate (and Number 3 overall) in Season 4, concerning the Top 2.5% of players: https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-320343-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32

Oh and Lawbringer has the highest Winrate of ALL Characters in Dominion with an exceptional 54.1%.

Oh, and btw Lawbringer will receive nerfs:

We don’t think Lawbringer is too strong in 1v1. His current ranking is mainly due to the annoyance of shove on block that paired with his high health pool and a lot of patience can lead to a slow but sure win. We are looking at this ability and also as you’ll see below is performance in 4v4.
Lawbringer’s main strength are his set of bomb Feats and his Impale move. We are looking at Impale and the different situations where it can be guaranteed. This move when successfully executed often lead to a player kill in a 1vN situation.

I'm not exactly sure I would trust that hero chart anymore, it's from season 4 afterall. But why all the talk about Lawbringer? How do you know LB will receive nerfs? Sounds like you are part of the dev team with the "We"

EDIT: Ah nvm, I saw where you got it from.

Alustar.
05-15-2018, 04:12 PM
You are humble, maybe too much :o

Is Fady still about? Don't think I ever got around to duelling him.

Shame we're all cross platform really, i'd be so up for an organised forum 4v4!

See DarkManChe, we're all quite agreeable folk. Leave your ego at the door and try to learn. It's the only way forward mate ;)

Man I'd love to have a good organized 4v4! **** would be cash!

Arekonator
05-15-2018, 04:20 PM
Lets just nerf the throw+bash distance and be done with it?

Charmzzz
05-15-2018, 05:05 PM
Lets just nerf the throw+bash distance and be done with it?

I agree with that. But I dont think it makes her OP in any way, I cant even remember the last time I got ledged by a Shaman. It is mostly Lawbringers, Raiders and Warlords who do that to me. ^^

HazelrahFirefly
05-15-2018, 05:23 PM
95% of my being ledged is by Warlords lol

Btw, you guys ever face a competent Nobushi when playing Shaman? It's an absolute a** ra***g for the Shaman.

SpaceJim12
05-15-2018, 05:37 PM
Btw, you guys ever face a competent Nobushi when playing Shaman? It's an absolute a** ra***g for the Shaman.

It's a metter of distance, I believe.
Btw I see a lot of good Nobushis on PC more often now. Can't say why.

IAmOddGirl
05-15-2018, 07:40 PM
Having trouble vs Shamans on your Lawbringer? I'm actually offended. I'll grant you she can be a squirmy one when used by a good player, but I've only ever had trouble with her on my Gladiator.
On my Raider she is a joke and on my Lawbringer she's a pathetic rag doll for Big Sexy to play with.

Alustar.
05-15-2018, 08:38 PM
Having trouble vs Shamans on your Lawbringer? I'm actually offended. I'll grant you she can be a squirmy one when used by a good player, but I've only ever had trouble with her on my Gladiator.
On my Raider she is a joke and on my Lawbringer she's a pathetic rag doll for Big Sexy to play with.

This tickled my pickle in all the right ways. :D

MafiaRider
05-15-2018, 08:46 PM
Having trouble vs Shamans on your Lawbringer? I'm actually offended. I'll grant you she can be a squirmy one when used by a good player, but I've only ever had trouble with her on my Gladiator.
On my Raider she is a joke and on my Lawbringer she's a pathetic rag doll for Big Sexy to play with.

As a Gladiator main im offended you have problems with Shaman. Spam toe stab and she done, it goes both ways. You might have problems with characters the OP doesn't have problems with, as in Conq and Zerker.

Arekonator
05-15-2018, 09:04 PM
I agree with that. But I dont think it makes her OP in any way, I cant even remember the last time I got ledged by a Shaman. It is mostly Lawbringers, Raiders and Warlords who do that to me. ^^

No, it doesnt make her broken or anything, its just it makes her stronger than she should be in place where it doesnt make sense for her to be, both thematicaly and balance wise compared to another characters.

HazelrahFirefly
05-15-2018, 09:09 PM
As someone who's best bud mains LB, I'm offended that anything having to do with him would be called sexy.

Pardon me, I need to go vomit.

IAmOddGirl
05-15-2018, 09:32 PM
As someone who's best bud mains LB, I'm offended that anything having to do with him would be called sexy.

Pardon me, I need to go vomit.

He's a big obviously strong guy in full steel armor..I've always visualized The most recent actor who plays The Mountain in Game of Throne and is the world's strongest man..so yeah..lol very appealing to me.

ChampionRuby50g
05-15-2018, 09:38 PM
Why do I always miss all the good threads because Iím sleeping :(

To be fair, Lawbringer can easily take down Shaman if you play right. Utilise your parry and block shove and you can wear her down with the pure defensive advantage.


I also imagine LB has quite a dashing head of hair under that helmet, with a smile that would send the Peacekeepers crazy.

IAmOddGirl
05-15-2018, 09:50 PM
Have to,,,Just look at that

https://imgur.com/a/domfNkp

Xinlyfenne
05-15-2018, 10:06 PM
Just lower the throw distance and only confirm the pounce on a wall like Shugoki. Also I think she needs a light attack boost, say 12 and 8 instead of the 10 and 5 she has now.

Alustar.
05-16-2018, 12:40 AM
Have to,,,Just look at that

https://imgur.com/a/domfNkp


I suddenly feel less of a man after having seen that. BRB I'm going to do a bunch of squats and push ups.

IBAPTIZEDGOD
05-16-2018, 12:43 AM
I don't find her unbeatable, but she is not very fun to fight against, i would prefer that all dashing attacks were light attacks. nuff said.

Erhanninja
05-17-2018, 01:06 PM
I think devs were high making this hero or they were under heavy pressure from management to boost the sales from newcomers. First she came decimated everybody with her out of game and physics moves. I wish they removed her from the game. Soft feints bloody cancel anything into anything. Jump attacks across the map from any direction. Her side dodge attack she just turn arounds herself but avoids all the attacks even zones. She has best feats of all heroes and factions. She has massive throw distance. If she GBs me and throws I shoul recover. But this is the only hero I wait like an idiot so she can headbutt me to ledge. I screamed here for months thi is against mechanics of this game devs and reps ignored. Same with her bite. God forbid she catches you from behind. I lose half of my health with bleed on top before I coupd turn around. How can she have UB with a small hatchet same as Shugoki massive weapon? Devs made so many mistakes with this hero. If they cant win they just switch to Shaman. If they cant win as Shaman or low health they just run cant even catch them OOS cos she has ridicilious sprint speed. I hate fighting against Shaman. Its boring character superiority nothing else.

Charmzzz
05-17-2018, 01:21 PM
I think devs were high making this hero or they were under heavy pressure from management to boost the sales from newcomers. First she came decimated everybody with her out of game and physics moves. I wish they removed her from the game. Soft feints bloody cancel anything into anything. Jump attacks across the map from any direction. Her side dodge attack she just turn arounds herself but avoids all the attacks even zones. She has best feats of all heroes and factions. She has massive throw distance. If she GBs me and throws I shoul recover. But this is the only hero I wait like an idiot so she can headbutt me to ledge. I screamed here for months thi is against mechanics of this game devs and reps ignored. Same with her bite. God forbid she catches you from behind. I lose half of my health with bleed on top before I coupd turn around. How can she have UB with a small hatchet same as Shugoki massive weapon? Devs made so many mistakes with this hero. If they cant win they just switch to Shaman. If they cant win as Shaman or low health they just run cant even catch them OOS cos she has ridicilious sprint speed. I hate fighting against Shaman. Its boring character superiority nothing else.

I don't want to be rude, but concerning your FH Tracker Profile you definitely lack experience in this game... Shaman is a Noob-Stomper, tbh a better one than Centurion. Still, everything she does can be countered and punished if you know how.

TestO...
05-17-2018, 01:38 PM
same ppl always defending shaman.. it needs nerf and thats it..

bannex19
05-17-2018, 02:25 PM
I just want them to nerf her stupid screaming.

Arekonator
05-17-2018, 02:47 PM
I just want them to nerf her stupid screaming.

And nerf cent screaming too while they are at it.