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View Full Version : Gear score and single pick



CandleInTheDark
05-11-2018, 08:37 AM
In some cases, I get why gear stats are in PVP, like take the Division, their single player and multiplayer is seamless, doesn't make it any better for the poor so and so that gets matchmaked with groups whose gear is 150 higher than his and gets kicked from group or the one that solos and runs into that group, but it is the way it is. But in a game like For Honor where there is not that integration, I do not believe that an advantage for having played the game or the character in use longer than the opponent is a good thing. Cosmetically, sure, give players more options for that commitment and time, not a problem at all with that, but while the devs have lowered top gear attack and defense, it is an issue of their own making. Pulling a number out of the air here but if I, in top gear, need two hits less to kill Mr Joined In The Free Weekend wearing grey gear and I can survive two more hits from him, that is four hits total. Then when you take into consideration refined gear that feels like a stealth tier raise, right now I don't care about refined gear but if they keep adding levels to it then people are going to need to start caring and by that time it will be rep 11 or 12 per character. I have heard arguments before that some characters are so weak they need the advantage from the gear but gear should not be used as a balancing tool especially when it comes to fighting less experienced players.

This ties in with something that players bring up every couple months or so, single pick. As it stands with matchmaking before character selection that is not a thing that is in any way fair on people coming new into the game. Because not only are they at the very least seven reps behind others but they are then expected to do it four times in order to guarantee their character, which by the by means that either they will spend four times longer getting four into that gear tier at the same time or as soon as they finish one they are going to be handicapped again and have to start again from the bottom. The devs are adding things that help with xp and the news of a whole week of double xp is great to hear but it feels like the longer the game goes on the less friendly it is to new people who are already going to have to build PvP skills and the more unfriendly to new players suggestions like this get. Even if gear score were not a thing, we would be hindering new players by making them have to race to get their preferred and perhaps only hero they have experience in at a time that they are already disadvantaged just for not having the in game experience.

Personally what I would like to see is rep levels only making a cosmetic difference (and devs have said that they don't want gear to be as much a factor as it has been, if it is no difference that fixes the issue) and character selection before matchmaking, this is a lot more feasible than it used to be now that the stability is in. Speaking on a personal level if I wanted to play orochi right after the rework or a new character on launch day I would not mind waiting an extra couple of minutes for a game to open up because I know I will get through my matches when I get them. It would impact groups who want to use say four lawbringers in PvP but outside of that it would be a fair way of putting in a feature people are requesting without hindering the choice of others. As an added option, if and when the player base supports it, it could even be split in such a way that each team has a vanguard, a heavy, an assassin and a hybrid to make the teams balanced, though that might be one step too far for groups, but certainly a pug team might find help in covering all the bases like this and it would help people interested in learning one role whether dps or tank.

SpaceJim12
05-11-2018, 09:55 AM
I believe devs just not sure that cosmetics will be enough reward to leveling character. And change numbers a lot easier, than add new visuals for progress, not steel.
While for me new visual blade is a better stimulus to progress, I think in For Honor a lot players just don't care about actual look, but really care about how strong they want to be. I hope a little number of refined geared guys around matches means player now less intrested in gear stats. But skeptic inside me sure that happend because refind just simply do not worth it.

I personaly prefer to try different characters, so I see a lot situations when gear stats could be a problem. Let's say, as Shinobi I could use all my skills in a fight, but when I (23 gear) play agains enemy (180 gear) a single mistake enough to loose all health in couple lucky hits. While I successfully attack again and again deal almost zero dmg.
All this remind me funny story, that happens...I believe in season 2.
I tried PK this days, and than met LB, that have full gear (130, If I correct). I mssed first top light, than start to attack, almost took 3/4 of his health bar, but then some texture glitch and I got top heavy that instantly killed me.
And he made some ignorance insult in the chat, so I answered like "It's just gear, that's why you killed me". And than I got most funny and unlogic dialogue in FH!
me: "It's just gear, that's why you killed me"
LB: "Gear means nothing in this game"
me: "But you killed me with a single heavy"
LB: "Of course! I got full dmg bonus in my gear!"

Illyrian_King
05-11-2018, 02:53 PM
To be honest, I think that gear is to weak at the moment.

I like having my progress linked to my strength (not counting my increasing skill), and cosmetics wouldn't really suffice to me. Even regarding of how "many" armour skins per Hero we have :p

It is authentic that the effectivness of gear can vary a whole lot, and I don't want my royal golden halberd be like a usual halberd.

But the devs are actually reducing the stat system even more to make it more newby-friendly.

I am clearly against this trend, but I can't change a thing.

Planetus-
05-11-2018, 03:37 PM
To be honest, I think that gear is to weak at the moment.

I like having my progress linked to my strength (not counting my increasing skill), and cosmetics wouldn't really suffice to me. Even regarding of how "many" armour skins per Hero we have :p

It is authentic that the effectivness of gear can vary a whole lot, and I don't want my royal golden halberd be like a usual halberd.

But the devs are actually reducing the stat system even more to make it more newby-friendly.

I am clearly against this trend, but I can't change a thing.


Good, gear shouldn't be a major factor unless there is a consistent way to matchmake players with similar gear scores together, you want the games player base to grow and survive, right? It won't grow if you're going around 2 hitting everyone in grey gear that by all rights you shouldn't be matched against.

Stat altering gear should stay in MMOs and out of small scale brawler/fighting action games.

Devils-_-legacy
05-11-2018, 03:37 PM
I wouldn't mind if they introduced a single pick mode in dominon I currently have 10 180 heros that I don't use would give me a reason to pick them back up and of they take gear score away them we need real new weapons not just reskins.
Unless your on pc no need to worry about player base console have a massive player Base to the point I can find a game in 60 secs or so rather then the 5 min wait in s1

SpaceJim12
05-11-2018, 04:07 PM
I wouldn't mind if they introduced a single pick mode in dominon I currently have 10 180 heros that I don't use

"Don't use" and "180 heroes", which can't compare proper in my head. =)
I have only two 180 gear stat hero, and my overall rep is 73.

Devils-_-legacy
05-11-2018, 04:09 PM
I get them to around rep ten and drop them lol I'm rep 107 I think it's because there nothing good to unlock beyond rep 10

HazelrahFirefly
05-12-2018, 02:51 AM
To be fair.... gear doesn't actually matter that much. It didn't matter much before the S5 nerf and it matters even less now. It seems like it does but, outside of sabotaging yourself with purposefully terrible stats that dont fit your playstyle preference, it's going to be a difference of one hit for a kill or to be killed.

mrmistark
05-12-2018, 04:14 AM
You all know I rant over this one specific gear stat quite a bit so those of you who have seen this rant before bare with me and sorry in advance for continually bringing it up.

You want to make gear stats matter but not be an instant kill so new players can catch up slightly? Take away defense penetration as a stat. The problem and reason that you need to be super careful to not get 2-3 shot killed is that we have a SINGLE stat that negates 3 fully maxed defense stats. We have an attack stat already, but in the name of trying to ďfixĒ the turtle meta devs implemented this stat as a bandaid thinking to fix defensive passive play we need to get rid of defense. Long story short, this single stat negates everyoneís defense stats to be the base stat. This game is very equal opposite force, just look at the advanced Rock Paper Scissors fighting system and youíll understand what I mean. The problem here is that (attack -> defense) isnít a thing like it used to be. Itís (attack + defense penetration -> defense). The proportions are superiority off kilter.

Defense has become obsolete because of this. No wonder why everyone gets two shotted even more than ever before is before even with lowest gear youíd still have SOME added defense. Since the gear revamp even with maxed gear it can all be negated with one stat, and no mediator for the added attack boosts from feats and fully maxed gear stats. Same thing goes for revenge attack. If revenge is supposed to be to give yourself a chance to get away or tank through until your teammates come, why do we have more offensive and aggressive properties for revenge than defensive? Why can a Highlander and Shugoki one shot someone in revenge mode? Itís defense penetration making defense obsolete and negating the only mediator between the character and the added damage that is attack stats, feats, and revenge boosts. Then you look at defense as a whole: we have 3 defense stats that all can be negated by one stat so essentially to be able to have more survivability in a fight we HAVE to get revenge or a feat that aids us, and the feats for defense vs offense are again severely disproportional. We have all these tools to make killing easier but no tools to combat this.

One stat is ruining what gear stats could be. Look at every single gear guide on YouTube. When they talk about armor, itís always the same comment: just go for defense as close 0 but not lower than. Doing so also does the complete opposite of what the change of gear stats was said to be designed to do: create hard decisions. For some characters there are very slight changes but in general itís all stam for arms, exhaustion recovery with defense secondary for helm and revenge defense coupled with defense secondary just to stay above 0. The only other true variation Iíve seen is helm: exhaustion with debuff secondary and to even out defense putting stam cost reduction with defense as secondary.

The stat just has no place in this game and Iím surprised that it isnít a concern like it should be. I guess maybe 2 shotting someone, especially if you get a good run must make people feel pretty good about themselves and maybe thatís why it hasnít been brought up much or addressed on a more serious scale.

Rant over, thanks for sticking with it.

UbiJurassic
05-13-2018, 01:28 AM
Thanks for sharing the feedback and suggestions Candle and everyone else for their additional feedback regarding Candle's post. I'll certainly make sure this thread is sent along to the team. :)