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PolishRifle81
05-10-2018, 01:00 PM
So it sounds like for honor will be around for a while. Could there be a possibility of 60 fps on console, or for at least for the ps4 pro?

Alustar.
05-10-2018, 01:51 PM
Probably not anytime soon, that would require a major overhaul of the animations of all characters, and it really wouldn't yield much. In my opinion with the way it is, even with dedicated servers, there would be more lag and clipping issues that would ultimately negatively impact matches.

BTTrinity
05-10-2018, 02:04 PM
So it sounds like for honor will be around for a while. Could there be a possibility of 60 fps on console, or for at least for the ps4 pro?

Probably not going to happen, you cant just give 60fps to a select few people.


Probably not anytime soon, that would require a major overhaul of the animations of all characters, and it really wouldn't yield much. In my opinion with the way it is, even with dedicated servers, there would be more lag and clipping issues that would ultimately negatively impact matches.

Wot is this lmao, I feel like 0% of this comment is true (As someone whos kind of uneducated about these things) I REALLY dont see them NEEDING to overhaul animations just to unlock consoles to 60fps, what would the animations do at 60FPS that they dont do at 30FPS?

60fps introducing lag?

Alustar.
05-10-2018, 04:09 PM
Probably not going to happen, you cant just give 60fps to a select few people.



Wot is this lmao, I feel like 0% of this comment is true (As someone whos kind of uneducated about these things) I REALLY dont see them NEEDING to overhaul animations just to unlock consoles to 60fps, what would the animations do at 60FPS that they dont do at 30FPS?

60fps introducing lag?

It's because the animations are already a core part of the games assets. To my knowledge, when you animate, the specific segment is pre rendered and buffered at 30fps. Is not like you flip a switch or cuddle a line in the code as the file itself is set to that rate

Devils-_-legacy
05-10-2018, 04:29 PM
I think it would be more to do with the graphic engine there running on the console version but to change it i think it would be as simple as adjusting the calculations to support a variable frame rate? Similar to the pc version not that I don't totally agree with them changing it tho.

Jedioutcast88
05-10-2018, 06:18 PM
It's because the animations are already a core part of the games assets. To my knowledge, when you animate, the specific segment is pre rendered and buffered at 30fps. Is not like you flip a switch or cuddle a line in the code as the file itself is set to that rate

For honor is set to run better at 60fps. Every animation is adjusted at 60fps. Bringing it down to 30fps cause the game to have a slight delay of about 200ms. This makes certain animations seem choppy and what makes them look ďfastĒ. I play on both pc and PS4. Pc runs at a solid 60fps while PS4 is at 30fps, and I will say I have a far much easier time on PC because of that 60fps the I do on the console. I have the hardest time with character that have 500ms light attack animation and timing blocks and dodges on consoles. Pc that same character doesnít give me the same trouble.

Adjusting the graphic settings would do anything to the animation at all. Adjusting the graphic settings would just effect the quality of the game and how it looks. These setting that put details into a game giving it more of a realistic look like shadow, texture, and lighting. Also resolution can effect frames as well because thatís how clear an image is going to be. Nothing graphic wise would effect how the animation looks unless you are not running a game on the optimum settings.

Jedioutcast88
05-10-2018, 06:24 PM
I think it would be more to do with the graphic engine there running then i think it Would be as simple as just adjusting the calculations to support a variable frame rate? Similar to the pc version not that I don't totally agree with them changing it tho.

If anything they need to optimize the game better To run at 30fps that console is stuck with. They need to actually slow a lot of things down for console so things seem less choppy at 30fps. As much as I would like to see 60fps on console the graphics that make for honor have a realistic look would take a big hit and itís hard to say if that would be noticeable or not. Plus it has to be solid which might not be able to achieve with consoles. Maybe Latest Xbox can but PlayStation wonít until ps5.

Devils-_-legacy
05-10-2018, 06:31 PM
I don't experience any blunders in the game unless someone I have joined with has ping rate of over 70 otherwise it's stunning no stuttering since s3 in my experience and I also play on pc were it is 60fps so the animations are ok on pc?. assuming the graphics card in a ps4 can handle the load like it does on battlefield 4 can you explain why it couldn't?.

Jedioutcast88
05-10-2018, 07:26 PM
I don't experience any blunders in the game unless someone I have joined with has ping rate of over 70 otherwise it's stunning no stuttering since s3 in my experience and I also play on pc were it is 60fps so the animations are ok on pc?. assuming the graphics card in a ps4 can handle the load like it does on battlefield 4 can you explain why it couldn't?.

Were I see animations being lost might be players with high ping I have been seeing it a lot now more then before. On console i do find that the Indicator does not match up with attacks with certain characters. I have had a lot of moments that i was sure I had the timing yet I still get hit. I tested this by going back and forth in the training mode on PC and PS4 using the timing gauge and just testing multiple times on attacks and blocking and parrying them and saw were it was stopping and comparing my success rate with blocking/parrying. All tested with a PS4 controller and on a 32Ē tv. With that said I was able to rough estimate that there was a delay with what I saw and input from the controller roughly at 200ms. That might be too high but thatís where I would ballpark the delay to be at. There are a lot of attacks that are almost guaranteed on console compared to PC. You playing both versions you should see the difference between console and pc and know that this game handles and plays differently when comparing it from 60fps to 30fps. I would say season 3 was where this game was at its best with timing on console but with all the adjustments made and the dedicated servers it really has made this game harder to play on console compared to PC.

Devils-_-legacy
05-10-2018, 07:41 PM
It really depends on your opponents connection tbf the worse there internet is the more unpredictable the game becomes and harder to grab a parry. I'm more on console then pc as it has a higher player base but the attacks are the same speed ect on pc and console the only diffrence I see is there are more visual cues on pc then it's console counterparts. anything that's guaranteed on pc is still guaranteed on console.

Jedioutcast88
05-10-2018, 08:08 PM
It really depends on your opponents connection tbf the worse there internet is the more unpredictable the game becomes and harder to grab a parry. I'm more on console then pc as it has a higher player base but the attacks are the same speed ect on pc and console the only diffrence I see is there are more visual cues on pc then it's console counterparts. anything that's guaranteed on pc is still guaranteed on console.

Iím the same way but I play console because thatís were all my work is done. There are things I can agree with while others I still disagree with. Like the timing I agree they are both the same for PC and console but how they look at 60fps compared to 30fps makes the seem faster and harder to judge the timing on. Now if you take kensei swift attack to a top light attack follow up. On console testing this multiple times, I found that I could block the swift attack yet fail to block the follow up most of the time. On pc I was able to block both in coming attacks and even get a parry of th swift attack coming from a different guard stance. What makes it feel like there is a guarantee more so on console is that delay. I will agree that connection make this worse and in optimum situation it isnít has noticeable but I can still tell. I will also agree pc does have more visual cues but thatís because For Honor is optimized to run at 60fps.

PolishRifle81
05-10-2018, 08:20 PM
I have an older PC and has a a radeon 5700 graphics card. How would for honor run on that?

Jedioutcast88
05-10-2018, 10:37 PM
I have an older PC and has a a radeon 5700 graphics card. How would for honor run on that?

Off hand wouldnít know. Google ďcan my PC run itĒ from the site it will ask you to download something canít quite remember but it helps the website view your computer states. Find for honor once the test is complete it will tell you were your PC stands. There is also a site called ďthe game debateĒ which has something similar but you donít need to download it. Just find for honor and there should be something that says something along the lines of can my pc run it. Put in your specs of your computer and stuff, that should also let you know where you sit running it. Hopefully this helps.

Tyrjo
05-11-2018, 06:41 AM
If anything they need to optimize the game better To run at 30fps that console is stuck with. They need to actually slow a lot of things down for console so things seem less choppy at 30fps. As much as I would like to see 60fps on console the graphics that make for honor have a realistic look would take a big hit and itís hard to say if that would be noticeable or not. Plus it has to be solid which might not be able to achieve with consoles. Maybe Latest Xbox can but PlayStation wonít until ps5.

The PS4 Pro could easily render this game in 1080p 60FPS. The devs can do this if they really want to.

If this turned to reality, then if you really care about 60FPS, buy a Pro (or the xbox, whatever it's called), if you don't care, don't buy one. It would make the game a so much better experience.

Capoupacap
05-11-2018, 10:35 AM
Iím not an expert but wouldnít it bring a huge gap beetween owner of ps4 pro and Xbox X and the regular console?

Crossplatform would have been wonderfull

Tyrjo
05-11-2018, 11:56 AM
I’m not an expert but wouldn’t it bring a huge gap beetween owner of ps4 pro and Xbox X and the regular console?

Crossplatform would have been wonderfull

They can let the players on the basic console turn off graphical features if they like for improved frame rates. Kind of like it works on a PC.

Devils-_-legacy
05-11-2018, 02:39 PM
Tyro i dought They wouldn' make it 60 fps if the standard ps4 and xbox wouldn't handle it. havning half the console with 60 fps and the other 30fps would give any ps4 pro and the xbox version one hell of a advantage more

PolishRifle81
05-13-2018, 08:51 AM
PC players swear the FPS doesn't effect parrying and it's a more "L2p" issue. Sooooooo...

Tyrjo
05-13-2018, 10:51 AM
Let them cap the FPS to 30 then and have them try it. :)

Charmzzz
05-14-2018, 09:09 AM
For honor is set to run better at 60fps. Every animation is adjusted at 60fps. Bringing it down to 30fps cause the game to have a slight delay of about 200ms.

Oh god, no, that's so wrong. The difference is 33ms. That's it. You get 33ms less input lag when you switch from 30fps to 60fps. If you don't believe me, use google please. I explained this so many times here on the forums, tired of it...

Soldier_of_Dawn
05-20-2018, 03:28 AM
XB1X and PS4 Pro should have the option of running 1080p at 60FPS. Being able to log on to PC servers would be a bonus.

Jedioutcast88
05-20-2018, 08:43 AM
Oh god, no, that's so wrong. The difference is 33ms. That's it. You get 33ms less input lag when you switch from 30fps to 60fps. If you don't believe me, use google please. I explained this so many times here on the forums, tired of it...

I also went back and forth testing this out between PC running at 60fps and PS4 pro both using a PS4 controller in training mode with a level 2 kensei bot while I myself playing kensei with the timing gauge on. Both systems displayed was a 32Ē Visio tv. Going back and forth I test the following things and not only kept track of my success rate but where the line stopped in the green zone.
1. Blocking success rate and where it stops in the green zone
2. Parry success rate with lights and heavy and were it stopped in the green zone
3. Guard breaking counters success rate and where it stopped in the green zone.
4. Testing all of this with different, multiple attacks coming from different sides.
Now kensei even after rework is average speed on PC I found that not only was my success rate high the PS4 but also were the line had stopped in the green zone was between 1/3-1/2 different sooner on PC the PS4. You want to tell me thatís all because of 33ms, which is 0.033 of a second. That just that fraction of a second is the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Even going of a parry on a single heavy attack on PC my timing gauge would stop either at the start of the green zone or 1/2 way. PS4 I was looking at 1/2 or right at the end of the green zone for the timing gauge. There is 1 of kensei moves in particular I tested out and it was his swift strick with the follow up of either top light or opposite of the swift strike side light.
PC I was able to block both attacks. The second attack would always be be caught right at the end of the time gauge. while on PS4 that same attack I would take the second follow up attack almost every time. So please tell me how you ended up with 33ms?

Tyrjo
05-20-2018, 05:27 PM
Whether or not 33ms (or whatever the number is) is a lot in regards to parry, blocks or whatever you have to put it into relation to how close you would be to actually confirm the parry or block. It may sound like 33ms is nothing, but if you are >33ms to late with your input you lose.

It is very probable that many players are an inkling to late with all their inputs, that inkling is what matters.

Charmzzz
05-20-2018, 11:10 PM
So please tell me how you ended up with 33ms?

Google it yourself. There are plenty of frame-calculators. And explanations. I did not just say it is 33ms difference, it is mathematically proven.

Here is a nice graphic that shows input lag depending on Frames and Settings (Vsync off / on, Double Buffering, Triple Buffering - Window Mode, etc.):

http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/attachments/858240d1445945515-erklaerung-ueber-vsync-und-den-zusammenhang-zu-input-lag-und-bildstottern-bei-60-hz-und-120-144-hz-input_lag_vsync_60vs120.png

Jedioutcast88
05-21-2018, 01:33 AM
Google it yourself. There are plenty of frame-calculators. And explanations. I did not just say it is 33ms difference, it is mathematically proven.

Here is a nice graphic that shows input lag depending on Frames and Settings (Vsync off / on, Double Buffering, Triple Buffering - Window Mode, etc.):

http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/attachments/858240d1445945515-erklaerung-ueber-vsync-und-den-zusammenhang-zu-input-lag-und-bildstottern-bei-60-hz-und-120-144-hz-input_lag_vsync_60vs120.png

Well when there is a huge noticeable difference between how For Honor runs on console and how itís run on PC Iím gonna beg to differ on this. I can even pick up the studder when I run in for honor. I see the jerky animation. I can see missing animation from attacks. I donít think thatís just 33ms of a delay thatís cause from running this game at 30fps. If i took a game that everything was done at 30fps to look as smooth as possible then brought to 60fps yeah you would really tell much of a difference other then the games motion looks faster. Now if they adjusted the animation timings at 60fps and have it run at 30 FPS then you are going to see a bigger delay wouldnít you. At least thatís what one of the FPS calculators stated.

You have character on console that players complain they are too fast even against a bot in the training arena they are just as hard to handle. On PC these same character donít have this issue of being too fast. I have tested this out and played both training bot and real people on both pc and PS4 having a night and day difference in how I perform.

If I played any other game for example like overwatch, playing on console I run it at 30fps and on PC I run it on 60fps. Notice no really significant difference in how the game players or my performance between the 2 versions of the game. That I would believe has a 33ms difference in delay. Battlefield for same thing. I have multiple same titles for both pc and PS4 and the only really noticeable difference I have ever really seen was graphics being better. So you would think for honor would be no different, but there is a huge difference in Not just the games performance but I see a difference in my own. Any player that has switched from console to PC have had a better experience with the game and that would state this game needs to run at 60fps for the best experience. The only reason I donít jump to PC is because I have already spent many hours in this game already and donít feels like started pretty much from the start again. So please explain to me how For Honor has a 33ms delay between 30fps and 60fps.

Alustar.
05-21-2018, 03:13 AM
The better question is do you people not understand the inherent superiority of PC over console? Gaming Computers are built from the ground up to be more powerful than any console will ever be. You pay 400-500 for a console, what in your right mind makes you think that's going to be even comparable to the 700-1200(as a conservative estimate many rigs are twice that) a dedicated power user is going to spend on a good gaming rig?
It is not, and will never be, the raw FPS that is the problem. It's that a PC is and always will be superior. They have less input lag between user input into machine that communicates to the ISP that then send that information to another machine so that the other players can react.

CandleInTheDark
05-21-2018, 04:35 AM
It is very probable that many players are an inkling to late with all their inputs, that inkling is what matters.

That's a point but the point being made is that most of the delay comes from things within a player's control. People think of console as the fair gaming platform while PC is an arms race as to who has the better rig. It's not so fair on console either. Better TV, less lag, better net/not through a router, less lag. Wired controller, less lag, possibly better, elite or scuff controller more buttons less finger shifting.

Tldr: spend more money on console gaming and you have an advantage just like PC.

I have played For Honor on Xbox and PC (mid range, can do medium graphics and get 60fps most of the time if I push everything towards performance) and yes I have had more light parries, a program someone designed said I should get most lights and around 4-6 in 10 400ms lights, but there is much less display lag, I have a gaming mouse that can be wired but is also the only wireless mouse people will rate with wired (cost as much as the elite controller at that) and those are most of the difference. Pretty sure of this, certainly with the mouse, given I can use my Xbox remote wirelessly and I never got a light parry with that.

Charmzzz
05-21-2018, 06:30 PM
So please explain to me how For Honor has a 33ms delay between 30fps and 60fps.

I have explained it. I'm tired of people who just answer on logical and proven arguments with a "I don't believe you, explain me why!". I don't have to. I gave you the facts. Period.

Your experience on Console and PC is a thing I will comment on: I bet you played Console on your TV (huuuge ranges in refresh rates and input lag), your PC experience was on a Monitor, am I right? Have a look here:
https://displaylag.com/display-database/

30 FPS means a Frame is drawn every 66ms.
60 FPS means a Frame is drawn every 33ms.

The difference IS 33ms, that is the highest possible disadvantage you can get, but only IF your opponent starts his attack milliseconds after a Frame has been drawn on your Monitor / TV.