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RavenousDVH
05-10-2018, 05:12 AM
The difference between AI matches and PVP matches is so disgustingly different that I donít even understand the point of the AI system. It does not prepare you at all for pvp. I will be at the top of the scoreboard for like 16 straight games in AI, so I figure, ok Iím ready for pVp. This is not the case. I will be at the bottom for 16 games in pvp. There is zero knowledge carryover from one mode to the other. There should not be a massive gulf between the two modes. AI mode teaches you nothing and sets you up for pure frustration when you go to pvp. The bots need to be harder - at least on lvl 2 in order to prepare you for actual combat.

The Matchmaking too is severely broken. Itís either using the wrong criteria for deciding a players skill or itís just flat out lying. It will say Iím on par with my enemies and then Iíll get put against people who can destroy you without you even landing a single blow. Thatís not the same skill level. How is the matchmaking decided? What criteria are they using? Iím never put with people my own skill level. Never. So g@#dam frustrating.

As for the changes to the characters, Itís an F-ing mess. They are all either underpowered or laughably OP.

Aramusha - is severely overpowered with the ability to launch 25 unblockable hits in rapid succession. Youíre stun locked for about 15 seconds and then dead. Without even being able to land a blow.

The Conqueror - who used to be a steady choice is now useless in pvp. Even more slow and cumbersome, than before and they removed any and all defense. By the time his hits can even come near connecting youíve been hit like 5 times by your opponent. And whatís the point of being able to knock someone down if thereís a 5 second delay penalty for your follow up hit?

The Peacekeeper has been severely handicapped as well. Less attack damage and more damage taken. Sheís useles now.

The Centurian, like Aramusha can deliver 15 consecutive unblbockable/unavoidable hits and stun lock you till youíre a bloody puddle.

Shinobi - Same.
Stun lock, dead, Repeat.

This game was fun but now itís utter frustration with unbalanced characters. Iíve trained with each. It doesnít help. I used to be able to hold my own. Now it feels like a completely different game.

Mia.Nora
05-10-2018, 05:34 AM
Welcome to For Honor, it will be mostly borefest vs AI and it will be a huge against the hill frustration in PvP.

vs AI; as you have mentioned puts you against lvl 2 bots, which never CGB. never feint, almost never GB and most importantly never mixup. Beating one is just a chore and you learn nothing from doing so. lvl 3 bots are only put against you if you go into PvP and start doing so well to the point you don't actually need to practice against a lvl3 bot anymore anyway. There is absolutely no way of increasing bot difficulty aside from custom matches which give no steel or XP.

vs Players; matchmaking is the worst I have ever seen in any online game. And moreover it allows 4 man premade teams of 1 year+ hardcore experience to go against 3 newbies + a bot. Those premades always roam as deathsquad ganking you then emote spamming and teabagging on your corpse.

This has always been the case for both vs AI situation as well as matchmaking with For Honor. Don't expect a change. If you want to stick around you need to patiently keep getting wiped the floor with until you can start to slowly get better. It wont be easy and it will be frustrating, but this is the only curve of learning there is unless you want to spend all your time in arena getting no steel/xp for your time for the next few weeks..

As for character balance, you are wrong on the things you complained but this is the major issue with for honor. you can not actually learn from your defeats unless you are good enough to know what you could have done differently in the first place.

Tyrjo
05-10-2018, 07:04 AM
As for character balance, you are wrong on the things you complained but this is the major issue with for honor. you can not actually learn from your defeats unless you are good enough to know what you could have done differently in the first place.

This. For Honor has a steep learning curve. Heroes you may feel are powerful/weak when you are new, may not be when you have figured out how to counter/play them.

PDXGorechild
05-10-2018, 10:42 AM
@OP Your problem lies in the fact that Bots will always follow predictable patterns. Not so much at first, but it only takes 10 mins of 1v1 with a bot in arena to get a feel for what they'll do. Good players will surprise you, and this is pretty much the same as with any game. The only use there is in fighting bots is to learn the basic mechanics of the game, and to get a feel for what it's like to be on the receiving end of a classes moveset as well as learning your own classes. Past this is will not prepare you for the way players behave.

There is a steep learning curve, but I recommend you stick at it. This game was frustrating for all players at first but it really is worth the time invested. You need to build up class and game knowledge, reaction times and muscle memory in abundance to be noticeably good. It's gonna take some grinding out to get there.


Matchmaking is supposedly based on K/D and win ratio's but I agree that it seems sketchy sometimes. Part of the problem is that there aren't a huge amount of players playing on any one platform.

Just to quickly skim over the classes you're having trouble with -

Centurion - Learn to parry and avoid getting stuck in his stunlock combo. He's frustrating for me too, I hate him, and have for almost a year.

Aramusha - Everybody, especially Assassins, has trouble with him to start with. Even now I can f*ck up and let him lightspam me to death. But be aware of the moveset - he doesn't have many unblockables and his light combo goes side > top > side > top forever, so just block top as soon as you notice. Unless he's good at feinting it should give you some time to roll away and try again.

Peacekeeper is the top pick for competitive players currently.

Shinobi - Uhh I think the only "Stun" he has is the ranged guard break, but he is admittedly fast and annoying. Try and corner him.

TatoRezo
05-10-2018, 12:57 PM
Every game is like that in terms of AI

And about character balance, yes it is trash but totally reversed for the characters you listed. Conquerer is in the best spot Right now and aramusha is somewhatmeh

Mia.Nora
05-10-2018, 01:36 PM
Every game is like that in terms of AI

Actually not at all. Even FH AI is not that bad with lvl 3 bots, but problem is that the difference between lvl2 bot and lvl3 is SOOOOOOO huge and you don't get lvl3 bots until you get in top %5 or something in actual PvP, and it NEVER climbs through vs AI games.

Here is the situation with bots;
lvl 0 : does nothing
lvl 1: does heavy attacks only
lvl 2: does heavy or light attacks, uses melee attacks, does dodge. Still no parry, no CGB, no feint, no GB follow up, no Deflect, no soft-feint and no mixup.
lvl 3: does everything in game

The jump from lvl 2 to 3 is too immense, lvl 2 is just a chore to beat absolutely no challenge or competition at all, all you need is learning how to GB or parry and %100 win every encounter; while lvl 3 actually makes you learn follow up timings and mixups.

Problem is that the only way to play against lvl 3 in vs AI games is to play custom games with no XP/Steel unless you already are in top %5 in that mode.

Vakris_One
05-10-2018, 01:49 PM
The difference between AI matches and PVP matches is so disgustingly different that I donít even understand the point of the AI system. It does not prepare you at all for pvp. I will be at the top of the scoreboard for like 16 straight games in AI, so I figure, ok Iím ready for pVp. This is not the case. I will be at the bottom for 16 games in pvp. There is zero knowledge carryover from one mode to the other. There should not be a massive gulf between the two modes. AI mode teaches you nothing and sets you up for pure frustration when you go to pvp. The bots need to be harder - at least on lvl 2 in order to prepare you for actual combat.

The Matchmaking too is severely broken. Itís either using the wrong criteria for deciding a players skill or itís just flat out lying. It will say Iím on par with my enemies and then Iíll get put against people who can destroy you without you even landing a single blow. Thatís not the same skill level. How is the matchmaking decided? What criteria are they using? Iím never put with people my own skill level. Never. So g@#dam frustrating.

As for the changes to the characters, Itís an F-ing mess. They are all either underpowered or laughably OP.

Aramusha - is severely overpowered with the ability to launch 25 unblockable hits in rapid succession. Youíre stun locked for about 15 seconds and then dead. Without even being able to land a blow.

The Conqueror - who used to be a steady choice is now useless in pvp. Even more slow and cumbersome, than before and they removed any and all defense. By the time his hits can even come near connecting youíve been hit like 5 times by your opponent. And whatís the point of being able to knock someone down if thereís a 5 second delay penalty for your follow up hit?

The Peacekeeper has been severely handicapped as well. Less attack damage and more damage taken. Sheís useles now.

The Centurian, like Aramusha can deliver 15 consecutive unblbockable/unavoidable hits and stun lock you till youíre a bloody puddle.

Shinobi - Same.
Stun lock, dead, Repeat.

This game was fun but now itís utter frustration with unbalanced characters. Iíve trained with each. It doesnít help. I used to be able to hold my own. Now it feels like a completely different game.
You need to spend more time learning the characters before you incorrectly judge them overpowered or underpowered. Your list is the complete reverse of the truth about these characters.

- Aramusha is severely average and actually in need of buffs. He gets completely undone by simply blocking him. The only thing he has to fall back on as an opener is his zone. He is a noob stomper and nothing more.

- The reworked Conq is one of the strongest characters in the game. He shot up straight to A-tier and even rivals the S-tier characters. He has the one of the best OOS pressures and the safest zone select in the entire game.

- PK is the best duelist in the game bar none. Her damage profile is frankly broken in how high it is and her zone select is second only to Conq's. She will be receiving a rework to tone her damage down but give her more mixup potential.

- Centurion is a noob stomper personified. Everything he does offers no real threat to more experienced players. The only way he can cutscene you is if you make a mistake near a wall.

- Shinobi is actually strong but only because of how safely he can dip in, do damage and dip out against everyone.

As for bots and matchmaking. The matchmaking is indeed often times completely at odds with reality. The AI is only really useful to practice your parry timings on. It will never be close to how humans play the game but then no AI in any PvP game has ever been comparable to fighting against real people. The best you can get is loading up a level 3 bot to train your reflexes against.

SpaceJim12
05-10-2018, 03:34 PM
Those premades always roam as deathsquad ganking you then emote spamming and teabagging on your corpse

This! I never could understand this thing. All the time I play with randoms, maybe trying new char (no rep, no gear) and I meet people with similar emblem, some word after nicknames that shows this guys deffenetly together, they always play as biggest *******s in the world. And sometimes I see low rep chars in my team (sometimes even noobs) and see how this premade just jump on them full 4, all skilled and top gear level. And then they just spam emotes, write "gg ez" in the chat, and...acting like compleat animals.
For so low playerbase, I just can't understand why people do everything to scare off newcomers from this game. Couple times I tried to chill them. But all I got as answer were "gg ez" "git gud" "this is life" etc.
It is game. Nothing more. But people sometimes just looks broken...

PDXGorechild
05-10-2018, 03:58 PM
This! I never could understand this thing. All the time I play with randoms, maybe trying new char (no rep, no gear) and I meet people with similar emblem, some word after nicknames that shows this guys deffenetly together, they always play as biggest *******s in the world. And sometimes I see low rep chars in my team (sometimes even noobs) and see how this premade just jump on them full 4, all skilled and top gear level. And then they just spam emotes, write "gg ez" in the chat, and...acting like compleat animals.
For so low playerbase, I just can't understand why people do everything to scare off newcomers from this game. Couple times I tried to chill them. But all I got as answer were "gg ez" "git gud" "this is life" etc.
It is game. Nothing more. But people sometimes just looks broken...

Some people have such low self-esteem, such empty lives, so devoid of any purpose or meaning, that their sole aim becomes to try and inflict some of the misery they feel onto others. These people don't have successful careers, girlfriends, or a loving family. For these people, "beating" other players on a video game and teabagging them after is the pinnacle of their sad little existence.

RavenousDVH
05-11-2018, 01:24 AM
"You need to spend more time learning the characters before you incorrectly judge them overpowered or underpowered. Your list is the complete reverse of the truth about these characters."

Im not new to this. I have learned each character. it doesn't help with PvP. I used to be good at this game years ago. I played for 2 years hardcore and left and came back. it was never this frustrating. Not for me any way. I don't know exactly what all has changed but it feels like a different game now. The Aramusha is the number one cause of my frustration. every pvp match I join has at least 4 of them and fighting one is difficult enough. I just wish there were a better way to improve with training or better matchmaking. Im so sick of the skill disparity. Its too frustrating.

RavenousDVH
05-11-2018, 01:26 AM
Some good advice. I appreciate it. I've clearly been away from this game for too long.

RavenousDVH
05-11-2018, 02:12 AM
Anyway thanks for all the responses guys. If nothing else it at least makes me feel a little better that I'm not the only one that finds the matchmaking frustrating. I will just have to get used to being a f-ing pin cushion for a while I suppose. I don't feel like I'm improving though. Thats the most frustrating thing. It didn't used to seem this unbalanced before. Maybe it was and I've just gotten way worse, but I don't think so.

ZealousCloud
05-11-2018, 03:10 AM
Played hardcore for 2 years, took a break AND came back? Damn man, 17,472 hours in game! You get my point... No offense but your main problem is practice. A lot has changed since you've come back, nerfs, buffs, meta changes... if you want serious help, describe in detail what issues your having. E.g., what hero you play, what hero your against, what mode are you playing, what are you playing on(pc,console,both?)? Be specific, I've read the forums nearly every day since launch, the 90% are willing to help. Help us help you man.

PDXGorechild
05-11-2018, 08:38 AM
Im not new to this. I have learned each character. it doesn't help with PvP. I used to be good at this game years ago. I played for 2 years hardcore and left and came back. it was never this frustrating. Not for me any way. I don't know exactly what all has changed but it feels like a different game now. The Aramusha is the number one cause of my frustration. every pvp match I join has at least 4 of them and fighting one is difficult enough. I just wish there were a better way to improve with training or better matchmaking. Im so sick of the skill disparity. Its too frustrating.

For Honor was released 14th Feb 2017 so a little confused about your timings. I played since beta last January so still only like 16 months. Also 4 is the maximum amount of players to a game and I personally really don't see that many Aramusha, maybe one or two max per game most of the time..

Anyway.

Yes a lot has changed. The pace is quicker. There are more unblockable and special moves. Parry is no longer as powerful, there's more chip damage and some of the old classes have had some major changes in their moveset and to their numbers. You just need to catch up, that's all.

And Vakyris is right, some of your perceptions of which classes are good and which are bad are way off. In truth, this game isn't often as black and white as "This class is overpowered and this one is underpowered". Some classes, like Aramusha and Centurion, are able to steamroll people who have little experience better than any other classes, but struggle to make any real impact in higher level play.

SpaceJim12
05-11-2018, 09:31 AM
Some people have such low self-esteem, such empty lives, so devoid of any purpose or meaning, that their sole aim becomes to try and inflict some of the misery they feel onto others. These people don't have successful careers, girlfriends, or a loving family. For these people, "beating" other players on a video game and teabagging them after is the pinnacle of their sad little existence.

Yeah, I think you right. Just little sad about HOW this guys makes For Honor look like for newbies. While they, as expirienced players could show full colors of gameplay (that we all could see and feel during betas and first season), they just spam, gunk, and left no chance new players to win.
Just hope reporting could help against them.

Rikuto01.tv
05-11-2018, 09:36 AM
Aramusha - is severely overpowered with the ability to launch 25 unblockable hits in rapid succession. You’re stun locked for about 15 seconds and then dead. Without even being able to land a blow.

Drugs are bad.

That or you've got some amazing future build of the game I've yet to witness.