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View Full Version : Orochi's rework isn't changing much at all



Nightslayer2787
05-06-2018, 03:37 PM
Dear Ubi Team or anyone reading this,

I believe the Orochi rework is not changing anything with Orochi at all that being because he still has no unblockables. Orochi has new chains, a new Storm rush and faster light attacks and that's all great BUT he can still be blocked or parried. Like Aramusha when he was released Orochi will also be very powerful BUT he can still be parried and blocked because people will simply get used to his speed. The chain damage increases but xD when you block him that stops the chain xD. Please Ubi give Orochi the Rework he deserves to keep him in the game at also higher skilllevels not just the low level tier.

Knight_Raime
05-06-2018, 04:12 PM
Rochi has an unblockable deflect. He doesn't need anymore. And I doubt you grasp the character all too well if you don't see all the good he's getting here.

Storm rush can't be reacted to on back dodge because riptide strike covers it. It has variable timing and you won't be able to see what side it's coming from till after the attacks started. The top storm rush has undodgable property. Meaning in order to avoid you'll have to roll away if you don't feel like trying to block. The Storm rush hit counts as a heavy and the first hit in his chain. That means even if you block he can still follow up with a 400ms light. And that light can lead into a heavy finisher which he can back dodge out of into riptide or another storm rush or a dash attack. Or it can just be feinted to parry your parry attempt or feint into GB to GB your parry attempt. Storm rush will also be cancelable at any time before the attack like how it was in the beta.

Riptide itself seems to be 500-600ms now which means it can punish conq's shield bash vary timing on reaction. among some other potent mix ups. And nearly all of his attacks got faster by 100ms. Of course Orochi will still not have an option against someone who turtles up and only goes for free damage occasionally. That doesn't mean the rework is bad. That's not the current meta anyway. Safe aggression is. And seeing as how orochi is a counter attacker he should do fine in this meta.

RenegadeTX2000
05-06-2018, 07:14 PM
You will definitely be able to mix up your attacks more often, bait parry attempts and go for guard break. The only match ups I'm afraid of while using him is Conqueror, Berserker, Lawbringer. Everyone else seems like he can do it.

Kenzu8
05-06-2018, 09:13 PM
I liked the showcased changes and I thought of a couple of ideas that could supplement them.

Unblockable
Kensei has a pommel strike and Orochi could have either the same thing or a kick. Speed could be similar to Kensei’s attack but with a different input f.e. dash backwards + guardbreak.
Reason: Orochi doesn’t really have effective ways to open up turtles who f.e. just keep their guard up and watch their right for the zone attack without moving from place. Also, the kick is considered a cool idea by the community.

Hyper armor
Attacks that would benefit from it are: light deflect, riptide strike and especially storm rush. Orochi could then be able to trade hits with storm rush, instead of being easily punished by anyone with range, fast lights or hyper armor.

Storm rush upgrade
Allowing Orochi to move forward during storm rush would be a cool thing. I thought of 2 ways:
1. Small 3-4 step runs without attacking f.e. by dashing forward in the opponent’s direction
2. Moving forward slowly f.e. at the speed of walking

I think that moving forward without exiting storm rush stance could allow Orochi to be a more aggressive hero. Standing still and waiting for the opponent to come closer is the opposite of being that. Especially since storm rush can only be entered by dashing defensively backwards.

The ability to get out of storm rush stance by dodging to the side like Valkyrie would be a good addition as well. That way Orochi could punish those who charge in and be punished with a guardbreak or parry in case of doing a crosswind slash.


I believe that making storm rush attacks unblockable would be a bit too much. However, I don’t quite understand taking away the direct cancelling of storm rush into guardbreak. Together with the showcased attack changes, it could approach the level of Shaman’s unblockable soft feint into guardbreak.

RenegadeTX2000
05-06-2018, 10:50 PM
I just want to see his crowd control with his storm rush on left and right attacks or if it's single target hitting only.

Tyrjo
05-07-2018, 06:30 AM
This fixation with unblockables is not healthy for the game. I'm glad the devs didn't give him any.

KotoKuraken
05-07-2018, 08:13 AM
This fixation with unblockables is not healthy for the game. I'm glad the devs didn't give him any.

Except a kick would definitely help. At least one that would at least help him throw in a light attack. Having a bash would help deal with Lawbringer who can just bash on block to win, or Conqueror who can roll into full block pre-emptively or zone at will to counterattack Orochi's counterattacks.

Just don't give it any bs hyperarmor like Shinobi has and it should be fine

FinnOfTheHorde
05-07-2018, 08:47 AM
Funny how they added new chains... Cuz [Spoiler] they are useless. Even in OOS you can ez pz parry them.
Orochi will be still useless against conq, warlord, lawbro and... Oh wait! Everything what is not assassin? 0 openers. You can spam storm or light attacks but still other characters can play turtle and spam you with unblockables.
This rework is very bad. You will see how orochi is still powerless against vanguards, hybrids and heavys.

Card1acArrest
05-07-2018, 09:23 AM
Finn... what rep is your orochi?

Did you at all read KnightRaimes very good explanation? I dont quite understand why he bothers to be honest, reading the dumb comments following it.

in 4v4 Orochi is not bad as it is. With these changes he will be kick-***.

I cant wait to try Orochi when this goes live. At rep 10 I still dont master him fully, I suck at deflecting among other things. But already now I dont really fear any of those classes you seem so afraid of :)

SpaceJim12
05-07-2018, 10:06 AM
Storm rush and faster light attacks and that's all great BUT he can still be blocked or parried

You can't be seriouse on that. I rare meet people who can block my Orochi lights from different directions. Parried? Only 1 time from 50, I believe. The onlt time when light from Orochi are easy to parry, it's when he do it from top in the beginning of the fight.
With new rework, I think, Orochi will become every match guest, same as Kensei now.

KotoKuraken
05-07-2018, 03:09 PM
You can't be seriouse on that. I rare meet people who can block my Orochi lights from different directions. Parried? Only 1 time from 50, I believe. The onlt time when light from Orochi are easy to parry, it's when he do it from top in the beginning of the fight.
With new rework, I think, Orochi will become every match guest, same as Kensei now.

Ah, I see you haven't met the parry gods who parry lights no matter what. If I try to do lights without feinting, they get parried most of the time. Right now, Orochi is extremely easy to parry, especially having slower lights than Lawbringer. His rework might change that a little bit, but it still won't address the problem against Lawbringer's bash on block, Berserker's constantly hyperarmor and waaaay more damaging attacks, or Conqueror's full block bait or zone

SpaceJim12
05-07-2018, 03:42 PM
Ah, I see you haven't met the parry gods who parry lights no matter what. If I try to do lights without feinting, they get parried most of the time. Right now, Orochi is extremely easy to parry, especially having slower lights than Lawbringer. His rework might change that a little bit, but it still won't address the problem against Lawbringer's bash on block, Berserker's constantly hyperarmor and waaaay more damaging attacks, or Conqueror's full block bait or zone

And you meet them so often? Rare I meet people who block and parry absolutly everything. And this guys don't care feints as well. You said about LB lights. But I met people who parry his top light, and PK that deflect it. I believe it's happend due to latency or maybe even cheaters (on PC). And don't care much about people like this. I can't spend 7 hours per day to For Honor to be parry god or to be able to play against them.
And still on Orochi I can light spam people for sure.

Roseguard_Cpt
05-07-2018, 03:51 PM
How to Counter LB shove on block as Orochi.
1. Throw attack you know will be blocked
2. LB does a shove
3a. Do a dodge light, if LB goes for a light it will be dodged, if he goes for GB it will be canceled by you doing an attack
-OR-
3b. Deflect the followup light, it's possible

Knight_Raime
05-07-2018, 04:04 PM
Except a kick would definitely help. At least one that would at least help him throw in a light attack. Having a bash would help deal with Lawbringer who can just bash on block to win, or Conqueror who can roll into full block pre-emptively or zone at will to counterattack Orochi's counterattacks.

Just don't give it any bs hyperarmor like Shinobi has and it should be fine

Giving everyone access to a bash from neutral ignores defensive play entirely and is not the way to go. Yes even with these changes Orochi will struggle against a turtle.
No that's not an orochi problem. Lawdaddy is in need of a rework and shove on block is going to go. Rochi can riptide strike conq's varried bash timing on reaction with it's new changes.


Funny how they added new chains... Cuz [Spoiler] they are useless. Even in OOS you can ez pz parry them.
Orochi will be still useless against conq, warlord, lawbro and... Oh wait! Everything what is not assassin? 0 openers. You can spam storm or light attacks but still other characters can play turtle and spam you with unblockables.
This rework is very bad. You will see how orochi is still powerless against vanguards, hybrids and heavys.

If you can consistently parry 400ms attacks regardless of what platform you're on then you've exceeded the skill cap of the game and the game isn't the problem in this scenario. You are.
As for an actual objective look at orochi's new kit you didn't grasp what was done and that's fine. Players of your more likely skill level don't grasp the game on a bigger picture level anyway.

The new chains in addition to nearly all attacks being sped up by 100ms and Storm rush counting as a heavy and first hit in the chain means he's always going to have a 400ms light follow up wether storm rush lands or is blocked. Beyond that since all of his chains now end with a heavy and he can dash out of heavy finishers means he doesn't have to commit and can in theory (given decent reaction times) can deal with anything you try to follow up with as a response to seeing his heavy start up. Including going back into storm rush or riptide.

You can't react to either storm rush or riptide on back dash because both cover eachother. Meaning you need to actually see the attack animation in order to know what you're dealing with. And storm rush itself is less predictable now because you can change the direction in the held stance and it's got varied timing on it's directions like shamans jump heavy. Further more Rochi can hard feint out of the rush at anytime before the attack animation starts. Meaning it's going to be hard to bait him into anything. And because top storm rush is undodgable you can't simply dash to avoid it. You'll have to roll to avoid on reaction.

These new changes do absolutely nothing against a turtle. But that's not orochi's problem. and it's not how most players who are good play these days. Bad turtles are easy to exploit.

Knight_Raime
05-07-2018, 04:11 PM
Ah, I see you haven't met the parry gods who parry lights no matter what. If I try to do lights without feinting, they get parried most of the time. Right now, Orochi is extremely easy to parry, especially having slower lights than Lawbringer. His rework might change that a little bit, but it still won't address the problem against Lawbringer's bash on block, Berserker's constantly hyperarmor and waaaay more damaging attacks, or Conqueror's full block bait or zone

If you're getting lights parried more than half the time you're playing predictably and that's your fault. Players at high levels of skill do not go for parries constantly. Their preferred punish is feint into GB since that's safer to do in most situations. You're likely playing against above average players at best. And your handing them parries.

LB's bash on block is an LB issue that's going to be fixed when he's reworked. Making orochi a god because of that is poor design. Rochi has range on zerk and rochi's hurricane blast mix ups are very strong against a zerk that spams HA attacks. Full block feint is **** against a good player. It can't be used on reaction to majority of lights in the game. Storm rush won't be baited by it because SR will be cancelable at any time before the attack. yes conq's zone is a problem. It is for 90% of the cast.

kool0606
05-08-2018, 07:09 PM
Honestly I am an all out orochi since day 1 and I'm as happy as could be with the rework, him having unblockables doesn't fit his playstyle he's a counter attacker, so they did everything I wanted

kool0606
05-08-2018, 07:21 PM
You can't be seriouse on that. I rare meet people who can block my Orochi lights from different directions. Parried? Only 1 time from 50, I believe. The onlt time when light from Orochi are easy to parry, it's when he do it from top in the beginning of the fight.
With new rework, I think, Orochi will become every match guest, same as Kensei now.

Hmm you must be playing at a different tier then me I pretty much never land his light attacks currently, only thing I can use orochi as is a semi aggressive counter attacker (this update should make his light attacks viable)