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View Full Version : Bullet behavior after striking an object



Choctaw111
01-20-2005, 06:23 PM
Have any of you seen gun camera footage or have been in the military and have seen what bullets do after they hit certain objects like tanks, buildings, dirt or water? Depending on the angle that the bullets hit they will bounce off and into the air. Please let me know if any of you have seen in a film or have actually seen it in the military. I would like to see this in Il2. The only things that I have seen bullets bounce off of are some aircraft. I have an edit here using Photoshop I did a while back of a P51 strafing the ground. I added realistic tracers (The color I used is the exact same color of a 50cal tracer that I lit. Check out the photo)and the ricochet effect I am talking about. Let me know what you think. I hope that Oleg will be able to incorporate this in an upcoming patch and keep this in mind for BoB.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/P51_Strafing-zoomed1improved.bmp http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/50Cal.bmp

Choctaw111
01-20-2005, 06:23 PM
Have any of you seen gun camera footage or have been in the military and have seen what bullets do after they hit certain objects like tanks, buildings, dirt or water? Depending on the angle that the bullets hit they will bounce off and into the air. Please let me know if any of you have seen in a film or have actually seen it in the military. I would like to see this in Il2. The only things that I have seen bullets bounce off of are some aircraft. I have an edit here using Photoshop I did a while back of a P51 strafing the ground. I added realistic tracers (The color I used is the exact same color of a 50cal tracer that I lit. Check out the photo)and the ricochet effect I am talking about. Let me know what you think. I hope that Oleg will be able to incorporate this in an upcoming patch and keep this in mind for BoB.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/P51_Strafing-zoomed1improved.bmp http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/50Cal.bmp

pourshot
01-20-2005, 06:58 PM
I think oleg already said this wont happen in il2, but could happen in BoB.

Flydutch
01-21-2005, 06:46 AM
Great work!

I suggested this A long time ago,
For A sim that origanally simultated Air to Ground Attack ( IL-2 Sturmovik) this feature is quit essentiel.

In WWII It Did happen sometimes that depending on the angle and the pull up heigth of the strafing plane that it was hit by its own rounds!
I read once that at least one occasion A WWII A/C is known to have sucesfully shot itself down!
There is many WWII gun camera footage were you see the bouncing rounds come up towards the strafing A/C.

It will also add some more realism to the most 'realistic' WWII Flightsim around!

Flydutch
01-21-2005, 06:56 AM
BTW As tracers rounds your photo shop picture already looks more realistic as the standard AAA rounds in this sim. I still think the trajecory paths in IL-2 are much to straight and perfectly aligned!
In RL the rounds fired will be effected by recoil and wind. Where talking Projectiles here not Laserbeams!

Enofinu
01-21-2005, 11:07 AM
i think there is more important issues than some stupid (but realistic) eye candy.

tigertalon
01-21-2005, 05:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Enofinu:
i think there is more important issues than some stupid (but realistic) eye candy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree completely.

J_Weaver
01-21-2005, 06:42 PM
Yep, I've seen it, on film and first hand. It would be a cool feature to see but I guess there are some more important things that need work. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VOL_Hans
01-21-2005, 09:19 PM
Tracer color and smoke trails shouldn't really be that difficult. And to simulate bouncing rounds, the current bouncing bullet effect would work great. We dont need it for EVERY round, we could use a formula that makes 1 in 20 shots or so bounce, or make it a graphics option for ground bounces.

That way we dont have clouds of bouncing bullets, and those with low end PC's can turn the effect off.

Just aslong as we dont have people start complaining that they dont bounce well enough to kill Tigers...

PlaneEater
01-21-2005, 10:48 PM
All that needs to be done is to elongate the tracer objects as they get closer to the player to give them the proper streak appearance. The ballistics model for bouncing rounds is already there--open up on an IL-2 with some MGs and watch the bounces.

I don't see any reason this couldn't be properly applied to other heavily armored objects and solid surfaces (ground, water at low angles, concrete, tanks, some buildings, etc)

Mysticpuma2003
01-22-2005, 01:24 AM
Choctaw111 check out my very recent thread...I totally agree.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=2631018262

Ejergard
01-22-2005, 04:06 AM
I remember seeing a ww2-documentary cut where a p47-pilot explained how they used to take out german tanks by aiming slightly below them, thus bouncing up under the tank and disabling/destroying it.
Very nice clip, in color aswell http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Athosd
01-24-2005, 10:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ejergard:
I remember seeing a ww2-documentary cut where a p47-pilot explained how they used to take out german tanks by aiming slightly below them, thus bouncing up under the tank and disabling/destroying it.
Very nice clip, in color aswell http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it were corroborated by testimony from infantry it would carry a lot more weight.

Nice pic choctaw - such an effect would be great, tracer does indeed bounce all over the place (as do the solids, though not quite as much).

jurinko
01-25-2005, 03:19 AM
i would suggest the bounceing projectiles from panzer vehicles, trains or maybe concrete, not from soft ground. The bouncing effect we have already from the IL-2 armor even the ricocheted bullets do some special hazy effect. IMO it should be great feature.

VW-IceFire
01-25-2005, 11:39 AM
I'd love to see more realistic tracers, tracer smoke, and bouncing tracers too. That'd be great. I've seen it on film when attacking buildings, bridges, vehicles, and aircraft...nothing off the ground however. Dirt soaks up the kinetic energy pretty handily.

I would expect a further move towards this in BoB. Not in the current engine.

Definately alot needs to be done to make these important aspects of WWII aircombat more of a reality. Right now, most tracers are synced and that doesn't seem quite right to me (correct me if I'm wrong), some are really hard to see, others are huge, etc. But improvements in graphics and technology surely lead to improvements in this too. Next time for sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Choctaw111
01-26-2005, 07:25 AM
Actually IceFire dirt is one of the best substances to redirect a tracer or any other type of round and keep it intact. Usaully when I would hit a more solid object with the 50 the tracer would break apart and you would see some really crazy flight behavior when it bounced off. Sometimes they would corkscrew and other times it would come around like a boomerang. Dirt is hard enough to redirect a bullet but soft enough in most cases to keep the aerodynamics of the round intact enough to redirect it in a realatively straight manner. I have some great movies from my camcorder of me and others shooting the 50 and it is very entertaining to see what bullets really do after they hit something. I also wanted to say that I do not think that the 50cal tracers are not nearly visible enough. You have all seen the picture that I have posted on how bright the 50cal tracer actually is during the day! There is no problem seeing them at all.

Choctaw111
01-27-2005, 07:48 AM
bump

Mulleteer
01-27-2005, 10:22 AM
I agree with this tracer stuff. Seeing them in military both in day and night I can say that they are very well visible, though standard is to have only every fifth as tracer in MG belt. When shot on dirt they bounce, spiral and flash wildly.

Choctaw111
01-31-2005, 02:11 PM
50 cal tracers also produce some smoke although not a lot but it is noticeable. I would love to see a faint smoke trail behind the tracers. I would also like to see a variation in the smoke trails. What I mean to say is that every single smoke trail from a particular type of gun all look exactly the same. I would like to see some type of difference so that it seems more real. Right now it looks like they take one type of smoke trail and use it over and over again with no variation with the exception of the Yak9 with the 37mm cannon.