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Archeun
04-25-2018, 10:24 PM
The zone attacks. Gankfests. Feats. Deathball. Unbalanced characters all over the place.

What can I say. This game keeps going downhill and that's saying something.

Meanwhile,many people who continue to play are people who utilize broken characters, exploits and BS mechanics. They then brag about how bad you suck and how great they are because you won't stoop to their level and utilize clearly broken mechanics. While it's true that people using broken characters isn't all their fault; the play styles and smack talking that comes from them clearly is. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind smack talk or cussing in the game. I do mind the constant smack talking from individuals who are only able to win a fight because they utilize bugs or mechanics that can't defeated.

I used to put dozens of hours into this game. I struggle to play 15 minutes now.

It's sad and the worst part is that Ubisoft doesn't seem to really care.

UbiJurassic
04-25-2018, 11:00 PM
We're actively looking into the discussion regarding ganking and deathball. Finding ways to adequately address the concerns with it is something that will take time and we'll be looking to share news regarding any progress made to address it as it becomes available.

As for balance, this is something that has been and will continue to remain an ongoing effort by the team. If there are concerns regarding some heroes, we always welcome players to share that feedback with both us and other community members. Perceptions of balance can often be subjective. Offering it up for discussion within the community allows players to share their own opinions or advice, while also offering a deeper conversation to be had regarding certain aspects of heroes or mechanics.

We're not in the business of making players believe we don't care and we hope that the efforts made during the course of Season 5 to improve the game's experience are a testament to how invested we are in seeing the game and its community continue to move forward.

Mia.Nora
04-25-2018, 11:29 PM
We're actively looking into the discussion regarding ganking and deathball. Finding ways to adequately address the concerns with it is something that will take time and we'll be looking to share news regarding any progress made to address it as it becomes available.

That is what I was scared to hear... So no changes for another 6 months least then..

UbiJurassic
04-25-2018, 11:48 PM
That is what I was scared to hear... So no changes for another 6 months least then..

As with balancing anything, it takes time. Rapid changes might perhaps address immediate concerns, but might create even broader ones. We'd rather offer the topic for discussion among members of the community, gather that feedback, present and discuss it internally, prototype solutions, continually test them to see if they address the community's concerns and then finally complete development of it before submitting it for certification.

Understandably, that whole process takes time. If you prefer to view the glass as half empty, yes it could take months to fully address. However, it is possible it could also take less time to address. It all depends on the hurdles that potentially present themselves during the development process. Again, we'll be looking to share news regarding the matter as it becomes available.

Camemberto
04-26-2018, 07:46 AM
As with balancing anything, it takes time. Rapid changes might perhaps address immediate concerns, but might create even broader ones.

I find this awfully ironic. Since clearly a lot (if not all) new characters, that you introduced into the game, were broken from the start and WOULD have needed more time in development, but didn't get any. Thus they created issues that are still present to this day and will never be eliminated. Because all the other characters are being "fixed" by giving them cheese moves in order to keep up with the BS.

What I really don't understand is the fact that the arena mode, which has no impact on balancing whatsoever took for ever to finally come out, but characters that make and break the entire game are dropped hot and messy, unfinished and broken in every regard.

Please explain.

And don't say, it's our fault for always demanding new content... I (and I think I'm speaking for the majority of the community) would rather wait 6 months longer for a new character if it were properly designed, instead of what we got instead...

Charmzzz
04-26-2018, 08:00 AM
I find this awfully ironic. Since clearly a lot (if not all) new characters, that you introduced into the game, were broken from the start and WOULD have needed more time in development, but didn't get any. Thus they created issues that are still present to this day and will never be eliminated. Because all the other characters are being "fixed" by giving them cheese moves in order to keep up with the BS.

What I really don't understand is the fact that the arena mode, which has no impact on balancing whatsoever took for ever to finally come out, but characters that make and break the entire game are dropped hot and messy, unfinished and broken in every regard.

Please explain.

And don't say, it's our fault for always demanding new content... I (and I think I'm speaking for the majority of the community) would rather wait 6 months longer for a new character if it were properly designed, instead of what we got instead...

Which DLC hero except Centurion was "broken" from the start? And which "cheese moves" you are talking about?

Imo Shinobi, Highlander, Gladiator, Aramusha and Shaman were in a pretty good spot when they got released. Shinobi and Shaman were a bit too strong and got tweaks within weeks, all the other Characters I listed were either pretty balanced or even underpowered when they came out.

Btw if you mean soft-feints and unblockables when you say "cheese moves", then you should reaaally take a look at the original cast, they have those, too...

Siegfried-Z
04-26-2018, 08:59 AM
The zone attacks. Gankfests. Feats. Deathball. Unbalanced characters all over the place.

What can I say. This game keeps going downhill and that's saying something.

Meanwhile,many people who continue to play are people who utilize broken characters, exploits and BS mechanics. They then brag about how bad you suck and how great they are because you won't stoop to their level and utilize clearly broken mechanics. While it's true that people using broken characters isn't all their fault; the play styles and smack talking that comes from them clearly is. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind smack talk or cussing in the game. I do mind the constant smack talking from individuals who are only able to win a fight because they utilize bugs or mechanics that can't defeated.

I used to put dozens of hours into this game. I struggle to play 15 minutes now.

It's sad and the worst part is that Ubisoft doesn't seem to really care.

Man you're funny.

If you're just playing sometimes then this is normal you have hard time each 15 minutes you come to play.

And i didn't see any argues in what you said... The only good ppl are using broken Char ??

Then why PK is in the first place while she's a season 1 char, has no unblocable and no Hyper armor ?

What are the broken char for you ? Because you know i believe this is sooo subjective as any of the 18 char can be a broken one for someone... people are now complaining about Cent, just before it was about Kensei, before it was the Shaman.. but for exemple for me the most broken char is SHUGO, do i cry all over the places he is OP ? NO.

Only complains everywhere...

Camemberto
04-26-2018, 09:26 AM
Which DLC hero except Centurion was "broken" from the start? And which "cheese moves" you are talking about?

Imo Shinobi, Highlander, Gladiator, Aramusha and Shaman were in a pretty good spot when they got released. Shinobi and Shaman were a bit too strong and got tweaks within weeks, all the other Characters I listed were either pretty balanced or even underpowered when they came out.

Btw if you mean soft-feints and unblockables when you say "cheese moves", then you should reaaally take a look at the original cast, they have those, too...

1. The shaman will never be balanced IMO, if you want proof, just take a brief look around. Also Aramusha lights vs assassins was broken
2. Yes they did. but to a much lesser degree + they were much more reactable and fair.
2.1 Shaman has an unblockable that can be softfeinted in at least 3 different ways + heal on hit etc. That is unprecedented. The Only fast softfeint I remember from the original cast (apart from wardens SB) were fair. PK heavy into guard break was no unblockable and therefore didn't force a reaction, unlike shamans. The PK Heavy into light don't change direction.. so blocking was totally fine. What other softfeints were there in the non reworked original cast that could be compared to the shaman bleed-softfeints?

Charmzzz
04-26-2018, 09:39 AM
1. The shaman will never be balanced IMO, if you want proof, just take a brief look around. Also Aramusha lights vs assassins was broken
2. Yes they did. but to a much lesser degree + they were much more reactable and fair.
2.1 Shaman has an unblockable that can be softfeinted in at least 3 different ways + heal on hit etc. That is unprecedented. The Only fast softfeint I remember from the original cast (apart from wardens SB) were fair. PK heavy into guard break was no unblockable and therefore didn't force a reaction, unlike shamans. The PK Heavy into light don't change direction.. so blocking was totally fine. What other softfeints were there in the non reworked original cast that could be compared to the shaman bleed-softfeints?

There we go, personal bias. I for example learned how to handle Shamans, their attack patterns and options. Her unblockable into soft-feint GB is perfectly reactable, you just have to be patient and wait for the indicator to flash (the unblockable is a 1100ms move, yes, more than a second). If you wait just 500ms - she cannot feint it anymore and you will get a free parry.
Then we have Pred Mercy, for me it became just like a Shugo Demon Embrace from neutral. Easily reactable and punishable. For Shaman to get heal on hit she has to get a bleed in first which is not that easy for her (Deflect or Zone cancel).

Aramusha? The only problem was that, as an Assassin and latency issues, you could not block his light chain constantly. Still the Aramusha was and is a C- / B-Tier Character.

Your listed soft-feints on the OG cast are pretty much useless when you face competent players, that's why they rework those... If you cannot force any reaction -> have fun in the turtle meta we had for so long. I appreciate options and moves that force a reaction but come with a cost (risk - reward). Look at your "cheese moves", they all are reactable and punishable. If you cannot do it: go Arena and practice it maybe? Because it's doable...

Camemberto
04-26-2018, 09:50 AM
Your listed soft-feints on the OG cast are pretty much useless when you face competent players, that's why they rework those... If you cannot force any reaction -> have fun in the turtle meta we had for so long. I appreciate options and moves that force a reaction but come with a cost (risk - reward). Look at your "cheese moves", they all are reactable and punishable. If you cannot do it: go Arena and practice it maybe? Because it's doable...

Of course they are reactable in the arena mode... because it's offline and doesn't suffer from latency. Also I would really like to know, if you are a console player or a PC player, because framerate makes a hell of a difference as well.

If I want to parry the shamans UB I'd have to input the parry before the cancel animation. I don't know if that's due to latency of the game or just my slow as brain apparently, but it's impossible for me in pvp. + they can be cancled with variable timing, which I don't think bots do, but makes it even more impossible in pvp, because of how inconsistent it is.

Charmzzz
04-26-2018, 10:36 AM
Of course they are reactable in the arena mode... because it's offline and doesn't suffer from latency. Also I would really like to know, if you are a console player or a PC player, because framerate makes a hell of a difference as well.

If I want to parry the shamans UB I'd have to input the parry before the cancel animation. I don't know if that's due to latency of the game or just my slow as brain apparently, but it's impossible for me in pvp. + they can be cancled with variable timing, which I don't think bots do, but makes it even more impossible in pvp, because of how inconsistent it is.

Oh boy, do you really want to start the FPS discussion?

The advantage of 60 FPS to 30 FPS is 33ms IF the opponent inputs his next move in the millisecond after your screen refreshed. That's it: 33ms.

Much more impact on Consoles:
1. TV / Monitor without Gaming Mode - huge impact, can go up to 200ms input lag
2. Wireless Connections from Console to Router - can go up to 100ms input lag
3. Wireless or extra-long wired Connection from Gamepad to Console - Wireless is good if you are pretty close, and never ever use an extra long cable. We had a guy here who used one and that gave him 200ms+ input lag

Now, what's causing more input lag? 30 FPS or all the other things?

Edit: Shaman heavy cancel window is 200-400ms. Move itself is 1100ms. Just wait a bit and then you still have plenty of time to input parry if your input lag is not really bad

CptMatsumaru
04-26-2018, 10:58 AM
The zone attacks. Gankfests. Feats. Deathball. Unbalanced characters all over the place.

What can I say. This game keeps going downhill and that's saying something.

Meanwhile,many people who continue to play are people who utilize broken characters, exploits and BS mechanics. They then brag about how bad you suck and how great they are because you won't stoop to their level and utilize clearly broken mechanics. While it's true that people using broken characters isn't all their fault; the play styles and smack talking that comes from them clearly is. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind smack talk or cussing in the game. I do mind the constant smack talking from individuals who are only able to win a fight because they utilize bugs or mechanics that can't defeated.

I used to put dozens of hours into this game. I struggle to play 15 minutes now.

It's sad and the worst part is that Ubisoft doesn't seem to really care.

Hey Archeun.

I had talked about the same topic weeks ago and was misunderstood.

It's hard to convince people that things are not going right right now.
I can only recommend you to continue practicing and partly to use these mechanisms that are over powerd.
I have now switched to Centurio to keep up a bit, as Valkyr simply has no chance.
But I also know that the team of For Honor will not give up. We should not as comunity synonymous. Sometimes a fruit need time to mature.

I also give For Honor a second chance and some things have changed to a positive one again and I think the game will run smoothly by the end.

Take a break or play with friends against bots. Gives the same experience and is far easier.
Currently Brawl can be played in online mode again. It is not as bad as it was a few weeks ago.
It's just important to study the heroes and find the right hero for yourself.
I've also been switching between heroes for ages, until I got stuck at the Centurion, which I hated the most.
But if you do not have chace against some heroes, it helps a lot to play them yourself.
Centurio was my hate opponent and now that I play him myself, I almost defeat him with every hero I play.

I hope for you that you do not hang your head. It will be fine.

Camemberto
04-26-2018, 11:00 AM
Oh boy, do you really want to start the FPS discussion?

The advantage of 60 FPS to 30 FPS is 33ms IF the opponent inputs his next move in the millisecond after your screen refreshed. That's it: 33ms.

Those are the numbers.. but the feeling makes a world of a difference. I KNOW, that it't only 33ms, but that's not the point. It's the fluidity of the movement, that makes it really bad. People say the human eye can't differentiate individual frames at anything higher than 24 fps, and while that might be true, there is a noticeable, unarguable difference between 30 and 100 fps. And yes, TV lag and so on are way worse. But these are hardly secrets. Especially not to a video game developer. It's a shame that the game seems to be mostly balanced around PC when most of the player base is on console. I feel like some adjustments need to be done here.

EDIT: explain cancel window! Is that when the player can still input the cancel or is it when the opponent SEES the cancel? Because those are not the same at all!

IAmOddGirl
04-26-2018, 12:01 PM
You just admitted it was latency by your own opinion. Which it is. I played Shaman for 3 reputations just to really get a good measure on this chick. She is so......situational. Sure you will have a bad match up perhaps against her, but my main is pretty darn slow with dodging and I still can just simply dodge out of the way. You issues I am going to fully assume are you don't expect her move set or a GB to happen once bleed is applied. Know what she can do..then you just anticipate it. That is the melee combat intention..to get your mind in it. Now players are another thing..you can fight a mediocre crap player with one of the best kit characters and they won't get a kill in Duels and flip that you get a good seasoned player behind the wheel and it's a real fight.

I personally love those fights. Most of the players probably don't..you just wanna sign on and have a nice relaxing casual time killing noobs. I really don't know how to help you there myself. I think it's just how your mind works in the fights. You expect them to not take the win..don't ever expect an enemy not to want the win. None of the characters feel broken to me in duels. In 4v4 sure that is a nightmare..and it should be. Stick together in Dom. You don't even have to know them. I just pick a guy and thats my partner. I said it once in another thread too. If you are running at a dominion zone with 3-4 enemy players on it and you are alone..what are they exactly suppose to do? Step aside and allow you to take it? Fight you 1 on 1? That is dueling and there is a playlist for that.

Charmzzz
04-26-2018, 12:01 PM
Those are the numbers.. but the feeling makes a world of a difference. I KNOW, that it't only 33ms, but that's not the point. It's the fluidity of the movement, that makes it really bad. People say the human eye can't differentiate individual frames at anything higher than 24 fps, and while that might be true, there is a noticeable, unarguable difference between 30 and 100 fps. And yes, TV lag and so on are way worse. But these are hardly secrets. Especially not to a video game developer. It's a shame that the game seems to be mostly balanced around PC when most of the player base is on console. I feel like some adjustments need to be done here.

EDIT: explain cancel window! Is that when the player can still input the cancel or is it when the opponent SEES the cancel? Because those are not the same at all!

Shaman can cancel her heavy attacks within the first 200-400ms of the animation. If you wait a bit when you see the unblockable indicator you will be able to CGB or parry the attack. Most people (like I did and still do sometimes) go for an immediate parry or dodge attempt when they see the unblockable indicator which is countered by her soft-feint into GB. That's why you have to be patient and wait, if she does not cancel into GB you still have 600-700ms time to parry the unblockable.

Tirik22x
04-26-2018, 01:35 PM
Those are the numbers.. but the feeling makes a world of a difference. I KNOW, that it't only 33ms, but that's not the point. It's the fluidity of the movement, that makes it really bad. People say the human eye can't differentiate individual frames at anything higher than 24 fps, and while that might be true, there is a noticeable, unarguable difference between 30 and 100 fps. And yes, TV lag and so on are way worse. But these are hardly secrets. Especially not to a video game developer. It's a shame that the game seems to be mostly balanced around PC when most of the player base is on console. I feel like some adjustments need to be done here.

EDIT: explain cancel window! Is that when the player can still input the cancel or is it when the opponent SEES the cancel? Because those are not the same at all!

Thatís what I donít understand... why is the game balanced around PC, when far more players use consoles?

Makes zero ****ing sense.

Charmzzz
04-26-2018, 01:45 PM
That’s what I don’t understand... why is the game balanced around PC, when far more players use consoles?

Makes zero ****ing sense.

But there are people on Console who parry Lights and have no problem with Aramusha. How could that be true if Console is as Camemberto states?

Tirik22x
04-26-2018, 01:50 PM
But there are people on Console who parry Lights and have no problem with Aramusha. How could that be true if Console is as Camemberto states?

I parry lights, and donít have THAT big of a problem with Ara, but thereís absolutely a noticeable difference. Iíve played on my buddies PC, and as Iíve said before, I felt like I had time to grab a snack and a quick nap before I had to respond to attacks.

Specialkha
04-26-2018, 02:01 PM
That’s what I don’t understand... why is the game balanced around PC, when far more players use consoles?

Makes zero ****ing sense.

Because PC Master Race.

Just a side note, even a TV with a gaming mode will have 15 ms input lag, compare that to a 1ms input lag monitor of a PC.

Charmzzz
04-26-2018, 02:06 PM
Because PC Master Race.

Just a side note, even a TV with a gaming mode will have 15 ms input lag, compare that to a 1ms input lag monitor of a PC.

Oh, you think that 1ms Refresh Rate is the same as Input Lag? Sorry, but that's not correct. Have a look here: https://displaylag.com/display-database/

Best Monitors have 9-10ms Input Lag. Best TV's are at 15ms like you said. Not THAT much of a difference... ;)

Specialkha
04-26-2018, 02:11 PM
I typo the 0 for the monitor, my bad. Just wanted to point out that, while the difference is not that much (but it is still 1/3 less), it adds up with everything else. Most console players use wireless for internet and controller, etc...

Charmzzz
04-26-2018, 02:22 PM
I typo the 0 for the monitor, my bad. Just wanted to point out that, while the difference is not that much (but it is still 1/3 less), it adds up with everything else. Most console players use wireless for internet and controller, etc...

Wireless Controllers were tested and they have the same input lag as wired ones if the distance is not like 10+m. The biggest difference is caused mostly by the TV. I did a complete wrap-up on Input Lag by comparing PC and Console in a different thread which I cannot find anymore (this forum search is plain useless...). It came down to "TV Input Lag will let you parry Lights or eat un-seen GB's"...

ONYX_x5
04-26-2018, 02:32 PM
Ganks will never go away in Dominion, it's the nature of the beast. If you get aggravated at the ganks then it's your teammates. The balance thing needs to be touched up. The thing were some get built in feints and some don't is BS.

Rikuto01.tv
04-26-2018, 02:35 PM
Thatís what I donít understand... why is the game balanced around PC, when far more players use consoles?

Makes zero ****ing sense.

I've thought about that question before, and ultimately came to the conclusion that even if they had a separate balance team for the console version it would be pointless. The console version having a different meta as a result of the input lag and low frame rate does not inherently make it a worse experience, simply a different one. There are many who actually feel that it is a superior experience as more attacks are viable as a result of that input delay.

Camemberto
04-26-2018, 03:09 PM
I have had very very varying experiences on my PS4. I have deflected Warden's zone attack on reaction all the while not being able to block other peoples heavies. It's really strange sometimes.

Tirik22x
04-26-2018, 03:57 PM
I have had very very varying experiences on my PS4. I have deflected Warden's zone attack on reaction all the while not being able to block other peoples heavies. It's really strange sometimes.

I will say that this patch today has seemingly worked wonders. Everything so far is... working, and consistently.

My skill level has seemingly took a giant leap in the right direction. Iím digging it.

EDG_Avocado
04-26-2018, 04:50 PM
no new content like maps or heroes in the next 6 months? I think I'm out. I guess that's all ubisoft wrote for this game

IAmOddGirl
04-26-2018, 08:28 PM
Because PC Master Race.

Just a side note, even a TV with a gaming mode will have 15 ms input lag, compare that to a 1ms input lag monitor of a PC.

I play xbox one with a BenQ Gaming Monitor. Things seem to be just dandy for me. Last TV I used was the biggest old school tube tv I could find. It died though then bought my BenQ.

Mia.Nora
04-27-2018, 10:21 AM
As with balancing anything, it takes time. Rapid changes might perhaps address immediate concerns, but might create even broader ones. We'd rather offer the topic for discussion among members of the community, gather that feedback, present and discuss it internally, prototype solutions, continually test them to see if they address the community's concerns and then finally complete development of it before submitting it for certification.

Understandably, that whole process takes time. If you prefer to view the glass as half empty, yes it could take months to fully address. However, it is possible it could also take less time to address. It all depends on the hurdles that potentially present themselves during the development process. Again, we'll be looking to share news regarding the matter as it becomes available.

I understand that part, but For Honor does not have such luxuries, even less than so compared to games that have few issues. When I play I keep seeing same faces again and again and again. I am certain I am not the only person. By the time something is done it will likely be a too little too late situation since this was something that was supposed to be done yesterday.

Dedicated servers was a huge move forward, but it did not bring back people because damage was done. A change to deathball problem in 6 months wont do much good.