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View Full Version : If rolling away was removed....



RenegadeTX2000
04-21-2018, 08:23 AM
If you could no longer roll away after inputting a back dodge who would be the best character? Or would it still be the assassin meta. I still think passive play is linked to this option even if it comes at a cost of stamina.

I always felt if you wanted to get away, it would either have to be done after a parry that leads into a roll away so you could escape gank situations and same for Counter Guard breaking.

and moves that loop into unblockables after unblockables aka vortex should be adjusted... Example.

Warden should only have access to his shoulder bash AFTER he attempts an opener of his heavy attack on block or hit.

Highlander, make it to where landing his 40 dmg unblockable has more of an effect on his recovery and not having instant recovery to go for kick mix up after successful hit of the unblockable, so if he does attempt to go for it you can easily light attack him out of it, similar to how Raider goes for stampede wall charge and attempts to go for a light into unblockable, and granting you a free guard break punish on him.

I just feel the roll away mechanic is just too passive and not healthy for the spectators of the game. People need to learn real fundamentals rather then relying on 1 mechanic to do it all for them.

Kensei would still be good with the change, parry or gb roll away and he could still go for his jumping attack punish etc.

and any character that has a similar vortex would have to gain that ability through other means like landing a heavy or doing something that would risk getting access to such a good move, and by doing that would eliminate a looping effect over and over again which would help with diversity in using a characters moveset rather then relying on two to three moves in their entire moveset.

Vrbas1
04-21-2018, 03:07 PM
Roll is necessary. It's not OP in my opinion because it eats a surprising amount of stamina. And, currently, it's the only way to escape certain character vortexes. But it surely does not come without a cost.

RenegadeTX2000
04-21-2018, 05:32 PM
Roll is necessary. It's not OP in my opinion because it eats a surprising amount of stamina. And, currently, it's the only way to escape certain character vortexes. But it surely does not come without a cost.

if you are intent on playing passive then you can avoid such a cost with characters with vortexes. If I'm intent on playing 100% passive, you'll never get the opportunity to start your vortex.

Vakris_One
04-21-2018, 05:45 PM
Rolling away is used as a means to reset the fight and as such it is just another tool in the arsenal. It can't be spammed constantly because of its stamina cost therefore there is no actual problem with it. It's not a one size beats all kind of thing like assassins back dodge which has no stamina cost (ergo no negative for being such a potent disengagement tool) and therefore needed to be reigned in.

RenegadeTX2000
04-21-2018, 05:58 PM
If I have no intent on fighting you, stalling etc. Then there won't be a fight. It takes two to tango, especially with the mechanics of this game. If I don't want to fight you, you won't fight me. Lol

xxFratosxx
04-21-2018, 10:48 PM
If they removed grab cancel I would come back to this game lol. That made me trade it in

Vakris_One
04-22-2018, 12:36 AM
If I have no intent on fighting you, stalling etc. Then there won't be a fight. It takes two to tango, especially with the mechanics of this game. If I don't want to fight you, you won't fight me. Lol
If you have no intention of fighting me then the match will be spent on chasing you down till the timer runs out or until the game debuffs you for unlocking and running away. Taking away rolling will do nothing to stop a player who wants to waste your time, they'll do it using back dodge just the same. Don't know how you roll but in my book removing a tool just because trolls can use it to troll is not a valid reason to remove it. If every game removed everything that could be used to potentially troll you'd be left with just walking and camera controls.

SHRiIVIP
04-22-2018, 01:59 AM
You would have to rework so many character to do what you're suggesting OP. Roll away isn't passive, it's a reset. It also makes those spamnable moves less viable. The reason those characters rely on them is because they don't have a diverse move set. Especially Warden who almost solely relies on you making your opponent mess up if you don't use vortex, most notably in high tier play.

Jazz117Volkov
04-22-2018, 04:10 AM
On the topic of rolling way, it's fine. Tactical retreat and all that; against certain mix-ups or surprise ganks it's very useful.

On the topic of Warden's vortex, most of the pain it causes is due to players not knowing how to deal with it. Soon as you see the unblockable icon, back roll and the fight resets, or take a chance and do a regular back dash, then catch their stumble with a guaranteed guard break--most warden's never mix-up on their first bash. If you understand that in most situations the shoulder bash is actually putting the Warden at the same risk as you, you'll sort it out much easier. A good warden is someone who can read their opponent; the vortex is a tool crafted specifically to allow them to capitalize on their observations.

Furthermore, a resounding no to this: "Warden should only have access to his shoulder bash AFTER he attempts an opener of his heavy attack on block or hit". That describes Lawbringer, who is a fundamentally different design; there's no considering here for how or why the Warden kit works.

RenegadeTX2000
04-22-2018, 06:21 PM
Yeah, I see what you guys are saying but characters that rely on momentum are hurt badly by the reset... All fighting games have it to where you don't get a free out and can reset on your terms whenever. It just seems too passive.

LIke in 4v4's if you are trying to save your team from losing and you are 1 control away and you have to fight with 1 person and if that person just decides to stall and wait for his team to get to his location by using stalling tactics, you won't have time to do anything, no clutch maneuvers, just a straight up loss. I have to kill him and then control the point, he just has to disengage for as long as he can and not really fight.

1v1's different cause of penalties, but if the mechanics were correct you wouldn't need that penalty. I just feel 3d fighters in general suffer from things like this. Too much cheese that isn't viewer friendly, it ruins the experience no matter how you try to justify a certain action. It's just not good to watch. If you want to play passive or try to stall, you have to earn it... Like any fighter ever.