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DrinkinMyStella
04-17-2018, 09:21 AM
Hey guys, I've had a few months off from this game and I have a desire to get back on the battlefield and continue where I left off from. its going to take a few weeks for me to get my reaction times at the standard it was which is fine. Before I jump on it can anyone just give me the low down of what the current meta is like, and a brief tier list so I can be wary and understand the current state of the game?

Cheers in advance.

Knight_Raime
04-17-2018, 09:36 AM
If you're a duelist the current S tier heros are pk, berzerker, conq, and gladiator. A tier if I remember right is kensei, highlander, shinobi, shaman, and warlord.

Bushi and centurion are the only B tiers. and everyone else is c tier.

DrinkinMyStella
04-17-2018, 09:43 AM
wow Sensei is A tier! I kew he was getting a rework but didn't think it would impact him that much.

Knight_Raime
04-17-2018, 10:31 AM
wow Sensei is A tier! I kew he was getting a rework but didn't think it would impact him that much.

Oh yeah he's amazing now.

Tyrjo
04-17-2018, 11:05 AM
The tiers also depends slightly on which system you play on. Assassins are a bit better off in 30FPS.

The devs posted season 4 stats from the top 2.5% in duels. That means that Highlander, Kensei, Berserker and Conqueror have moved up to within the top 10.

https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-320343-16/state-of-balance-season-4-recap

DrinkinMyStella
04-18-2018, 09:15 AM
Im a Cent main (yeah I know) I noticed his heavies are slower to chain together and his kick doesn't stun and also his soft feint into GB is reduced, he feel more balanced now, I can still destroy people it just means I have to play mind games and time my feints better.

Charmzzz
04-18-2018, 10:09 AM
Im a Cent main (yeah I know) I noticed his heavies are slower to chain together and his kick doesn't stun and also his soft feint into GB is reduced, he feel more balanced now, I can still destroy people it just means I have to play mind games and time my feints better.

Cent will get a decent buff next patch! Copied from the Den Recap (thx Candle!): Hp increase 10 from 110 to 120 and new light heavy chain as a lot of second lights in light light were being parried. Bug fix, the game no longer believes the opponent is on the ground when wall splatted. Minor fixes such as the left light only doing 10 damage instead of 15 and skullcrush not having the properties of the haymaker feat have been fixed.

Heavies chain slower? Didnt notice that.
Kick only guarantees a Light and does not stun, true.
Soft-Feint into GB did not get changed afaik.

DrinkinMyStella
04-18-2018, 10:47 AM
Cent will get a decent buff next patch! Copied from the Den Recap (thx Candle!): Hp increase 10 from 110 to 120 and new light heavy chain as a lot of second lights in light light were being parried. Bug fix, the game no longer believes the opponent is on the ground when wall splatted. Minor fixes such as the left light only doing 10 damage instead of 15 and skullcrush not having the properties of the haymaker feat have been fixed.

Heavies chain slower? Didnt notice that.
Kick only guarantees a Light and does not stun, true.
Soft-Feint into GB did not get changed afaik.

ahh ok I think the HP boost is needed. Maybe its me but its seemed like I can't spam a double heavy as quick. I meant the time to soft feint a GB from heavy has changed like before I could Charge my heavy right until the last min then GB where as now it feel like you have 400ms or less to GB. before it can't be feinted, it might just be me as I haven't been on in ages. Also whats the go to game mode these days?

Charmzzz
04-18-2018, 10:55 AM
ahh ok I think the HP boost is needed. Maybe its me but its seemed like I can't spam a double heavy as quick. I meant the time to soft feint a GB from heavy has changed like before I could Charge my heavy right until the last min then GB where as now it feel like you have 400ms or less to GB. before it can't be feinted, it might just be me as I haven't been on in ages. Also whats the go to game mode these days?

Ah yeah, true, they changed the soft-feint timing some months ago so you can only soft-feint on startup. Forgot that, sorry.

Double Heavy timing wasnt changed afaik.

Dominion and Tribute both have high popularity. I tend to play Tribute more often cause gank squads arent a thing, it feels more like Skirmish the way it was meant to be.

Duel has medium popularity, other Modes (Ranked, Deathmatch, Skirmish) are pretty much dead.


Edit: The parry changes in S5 were on point imo. You can CGB now after you got parried, heavy parry will give a free light and light parry will give a free heavy for most Characters.

DrinkinMyStella
04-18-2018, 11:40 AM
Ah yeah, true, they changed the soft-feint timing some months ago so you can only soft-feint on startup. Forgot that, sorry.

Double Heavy timing wasnt changed afaik.

Dominion and Tribute both have high popularity. I tend to play Tribute more often cause gank squads arent a thing, it feels more like Skirmish the way it was meant to be.

Duel has medium popularity, other Modes (Ranked, Deathmatch, Skirmish) are pretty much dead.


Edit: The parry changes in S5 were on point imo. You can CGB now after you got parried, heavy parry will give a free light and light parry will give a free heavy for most Characters.

Ah ok thanks for thew heads up. I left just after tribute went live, Ill give that a shot later. Yeah I remember the changes to parry punish but they took so long to put it in that by that time I was long gone, I did notice that GB wasn't guaranteed any more. shouldn't take me too long to adjust. I noticed when playing dominion last night that I was put in lobbies with complete noobs, like overall rep 1 and 2 every game I played, is dominion just a nooby game mode now or have they changed the matchmaking?

Charmzzz
04-18-2018, 11:48 AM
Ah ok thanks for thew heads up. I left just after tribute went live, Ill give that a shot later. Yeah I remember the changes to parry punish but they took so long to put it in that by that time I was long gone, I did notice that GB wasn't guaranteed any more. shouldn't take me too long to adjust. I noticed when playing dominion last night that I was put in lobbies with complete noobs, like overall rep 1 and 2 every game I played, is dominion just a nooby game mode now or have they changed the matchmaking?

I think in December they did a MMR reset for all players. After 10-15 Matches you should be back to your old MMR. If you "stomp" hard enough it could be even less Matches.

Sauronbaine
04-18-2018, 12:09 PM
Hey guys, I've had a few months off from this game and I have a desire to get back on the battlefield and continue where I left off from. its going to take a few weeks for me to get my reaction times at the standard it was which is fine. Before I jump on it can anyone just give me the low down of what the current meta is like, and a brief tier list so I can be wary and understand the current state of the game?

Cheers in advance.

Keep in mind, tier lists are generally opinonated with most people having similar thoughts on certain characters.

This is a season 4 list and AFAIK most of the top tiers are still top tier.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-us/game/forhonor/fh-game/fh_duel_winloss_matrix_v4_small_320624.jpg



If you're a duelist the current S tier heros are pk, berzerker, conq, and gladiator. A tier if I remember right is kensei, highlander, shinobi, shaman, and warlord.

Bushi and centurion are the only B tiers. and everyone else is c tier.

I dont think you are aware of how good Lawbringer is. Unless he got nerfed in season 5, Lawbringer is a top tier duelist.




In all honesty, Im not sure what to put between S and A tier in duels. Like whats the percentage that differs between them?

DrinkinMyStella
04-18-2018, 12:11 PM
I think in December they did a MMR reset for all players. After 10-15 Matches you should be back to your old MMR. If you "stomp" hard enough it could be even less Matches.

ahh that makes a lot of sense, at least it gives me time to warmup lol

Charmzzz
04-18-2018, 12:43 PM
@Sauron: That list shows the Win percentages of the Top 2.5% of players in S4. So this is not accurate Data at this point.

Zerker, Conq, Kensei and Highlander definitely moved up a good amount after the reworks / buffs they received. Not sure about Nobushi.
The list Knight_Raime gave is the competitive reddit tier list iirc. Lawbringer was way better in S4 than he is now because, well, the parry changes and dedicated Servers hit him pretty hard I think. He was one of the best turtles and his Shove-on-Block was difficult to react to with wonky P2P latency. After S5 changes and Servers hit, I have few issues with LBro anymore.

Tyrjo
04-18-2018, 02:24 PM
@Sauron: That list shows the Win percentages of the Top 2.5% of players in S4. So this is not accurate Data at this point.


I'm super excited to see the S5 data we should be getting soon.

Charmzzz
04-18-2018, 03:00 PM
I'm super excited to see the S5 data we should be getting soon.

Yeah me too. My bet is that Zerker takes over the top spot off PK.

DrinkinMyStella
04-18-2018, 04:09 PM
Whats conq like after the rework?

Knight_Raime
04-18-2018, 04:48 PM
Keep in mind, tier lists are generally opinonated with most people having similar thoughts on certain characters.

This is a season 4 list and AFAIK most of the top tiers are still top tier.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-us/game/forhonor/fh-game/fh_duel_winloss_matrix_v4_small_320624.jpg




I dont think you are aware of how good Lawbringer is. Unless he got nerfed in season 5, Lawbringer is a top tier duelist.




In all honesty, Im not sure what to put between S and A tier in duels. Like whats the percentage that differs between them?

Win percentage has nothing to do with tiers. Even if it did that data is irrelevant because season 5 made core gameplay changes that drastically effected the matchups as a whole.
LB is a terrible duelist. His dodge recovery is awful meaning he can't easily escape mix ups. He has no way to effectively pressure someone out of stamina either. and due to his combo strings he can't get in/mix up from neutral.

His only 2 factors that make him a threat are his shove on block and his parry options. Both of which rely on the opponent making a mistake. Shove on block is entirely nullified by assassins. because a dodge attack will make his GB follow up bounce off or the follow up light deflected. And most heros that are considered good have an unblockable bash mix up or just an unblockable mix up. forcing the LB to actually attempt something instead of waiting for block shove.
Parry attempts can be baited.

LB was never a good duelist.

Knight_Raime
04-18-2018, 04:53 PM
Whats conq like after the rework?

Considering he jumped from being dumpster tier to S tier you can say he's pretty strong.
His OOS pressure is strong because you can vary his forward bash timing. (though this is less effective against assassins)
He can cancel his heavy into a full block which gives an unblockable heavy if you bait someone into attacking it. Though there is a delay of 300ms for full block so you can't activate it against lights on reaction. His heavy cancel into bash doesn't beat side dash attacks and has poor back dash tracking so don't rely on it often.
and his zone now gives full block on activation and you can feint out of it after the first swing. it's virtually unpunishable outside a parry.

DrinkinMyStella
04-18-2018, 05:06 PM
I always wanted to use him before but found him dull and boring and could never open up a turtle, he sounds really good, ill give him a try later.

Knight_Raime
04-18-2018, 05:19 PM
I always wanted to use him before but found him dull and boring and could never open up a turtle, he sounds really good, ill give him a try later.

He's my favorite heavy. was and still is.

Sauronbaine
04-19-2018, 12:12 AM
Apparently, the facts I posted mean noothing. GG.

Charmzzz
04-19-2018, 07:19 AM
Apparently, the facts I posted mean noothing. GG.

Facts from Season 4. Before the parry changes and dedicated Servers hit the game and changed ALOT.

BarbeQMichael
04-19-2018, 07:31 AM
Apparently, the facts I posted mean noothing. GG.

It is still very good indication, but as said some major changes happened after the season so the percentages and possible even positions have changed. Parry changes nerfed heroes who rely on parry gb to play well such as LB, Raider, shugo or cent (cent still gets the wallstun from most parries though thx to his parrycounter), so they have probably dropped some positions. Then reworks made berserker very deadly so he is quite surely now much higher, and kensei and highlander got some solid buffs so they are now surely over 40%, probably even close to 50%.

Charmzzz
04-19-2018, 07:36 AM
It is still very good indication, but as said some major changes happened after the season so the percentages and possible even positions have changed. Parry changes nerfed heroes who rely on parry gb to play well such as LB, Raider, shugo or cent (cent still gets the wallstun from most parries though thx to his parrycounter), so they have probably dropped some positions. Then reworks made berserker very deadly so he is quite surely now much higher, and kensei and highlander got some solid buffs so they are now surely over 40%, probably even close to 50%.

This. And don't forget Conq man, that guy is tough now. PK should have dropped some % because she lost easy access to her 55/38 damage parry punish, too.

DrinkinMyStella
04-19-2018, 09:28 AM
I had some play time with Conq and he is really good and I enjoyed using him more than before, im just not patient enough to use him too much lol. but I jumped on berserker and wow what an animal in duels and 4v4, I feel like he's going to be a new main for me, I still need to improve on my feint game with him but so far he is a beast and really enjoyed using him. if anyone has any tips, I would be very grateful.

SpaceJim12
04-19-2018, 11:59 AM
I had some play time with Conq and he is really good and I enjoyed using him more than before, im just not patient enough to use him too much lol. but I jumped on berserker and wow what an animal in duels and 4v4, I feel like he's going to be a new main for me, I still need to improve on my feint game with him but so far he is a beast and really enjoyed using him. if anyone has any tips, I would be very grateful.

For me Conq is a gunk squad crusher! When I see some guys win with gunk tactic, I just take Conq and said to my teammates go to zones where no enemy or one, and myself go to zone where all they stand. And I just hold em (and even kill) until my teammates do objectives and arrive to execute everybody who stayed alive!
From my opinion the only way to not got bored is use different chars. Me now have full roster of knights, need only level up a bit my LB and some chars from Sam and Vik factions. After LB I planned to give up on maining and leveling to top rep and just play on chars I want and do orders for steel.

Knight_Raime
04-19-2018, 02:26 PM
Apparently, the facts I posted mean noothing. GG.

If you're just referring to the season 4 win rate chart I already responded to this. The data isn't accurate/entirely relevant anymore because season 5 made drastic changes to parries.
This is why the competitive duel tier list changed from having super good turtles to heros that are very good aggression wise.