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Warbyte-
04-11-2018, 07:26 PM
What is the advantage to pick Warden lets say,over any other asassin heroes?warden has more damage or more health?? better movement? what is it

SpaceJim12
04-11-2018, 07:47 PM
Cause Warden is a cool, bad-*** knight, you could kill you by just look at you!

Cliff_001
04-11-2018, 08:23 PM
Other than different play styles all non assassins have a constant guard and sometimes a few characters have more health. Also different kinds of classes have more efficient ways to get renown.

Alustar.
04-12-2018, 01:00 AM
Assassins have superior dodge and mobility, the trade off is degrading block and more susceptibility to being hit stun.

Col.Bullet
04-12-2018, 09:00 PM
Essentially none. But skillful use of base mechanics.

Archaelion
04-12-2018, 11:38 PM
warden has that op shoulder bash spam move. and if you try to dodge he gb you. that's why lol.

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 09:25 AM
warden has that op shoulder bash spam move. and if you try to dodge he gb you. that's why lol.

"OP" - lol. If you still did not learn that a simple Light Attack will knock him out of his Charge - I guess there is no help for you.

Warden has a way to force a reaction from his opponent which is good. He is simple to learn, yet hard to master, but his skill-ceiling is lower than on alot of other heroes. I still enjoy playing my Rep 22 Warden cause I love his style and moves.

BarbeQMichael
04-13-2018, 09:27 AM
"OP" - lol. If you still did not learn that a simple Light Attack will knock him out of his Charge - I guess there is no help for you.

Then again this works only with heroes who have fast lights, and even then only with the first bash, not consecutive ones.

Playing_Mantis
04-13-2018, 09:50 AM
yea not all characters can just light hit him out. charmzz does like to flame everyone in these forums as far as i usually can see from his posts. inc FLAME!! so mad always is he....

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 09:51 AM
Then again this works only with heroes who have fast lights, and even then only with the first bash, not consecutive ones.

Which hero does not have a 500ms Light? I can only think of 3 and they have other tools to deal with Shoulder Bash from neutral.

Consecutive Bashes, true, you cannot Light him out of those because if you could do that, his SB would be complete trash even in lower skill brackets. What you can still do: wait for him to release and THEN dodge or CGB. His timewindow to cancel the SB or cancel it into GB is only 400ms, so everything longer than that will be a commited Bash you can dodge.

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 09:52 AM
yea not all characters can just light hit him out. charmzz does like to flame everyone in these forums as far as i usually can see from his posts. inc FLAME!! so mad always is he....

I don't flame. It's advice to clueless players. And I, by far, do not say that I can do it 100% of the time. But I know it is possible because I did it several times.

BarbeQMichael
04-13-2018, 10:06 AM
Which hero does not have a 500ms Light? I can only think of 3 and they have other tools to deal with Shoulder Bash from neutral.

Consecutive Bashes, true, you cannot Light him out of those because if you could do that, his SB would be complete trash even in lower skill brackets. What you can still do: wait for him to release and THEN dodge or CGB. His timewindow to cancel the SB or cancel it into GB is only 400ms, so everything longer than that will be a commited Bash you can dodge.

I think HL, Raider and Shugo are all lacking fast lights, where Raider being only one who can semireliably dodge+punish thanks to his good recovery. Then heroes like lawbringer who get fast light only from one direction are ****ed if they had guard anywhere else or even wl if he had guard on top (600ms @ top, 500ms from sides) like you have to against warden, because guardchange + attack is 300ms+500 = 800ms so nowhere near to interrupt.

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 10:25 AM
I think HL, Raider and Shugo are all lacking fast lights, where Raider being only one who can semireliably dodge+punish thanks to his good recovery. Then heroes like lawbringer who get fast light only from one direction are ****ed if they had guard anywhere else or even wl if he had guard on top (600ms @ top, 500ms from sides) like you have to against warden, because guardchange + attack is 300ms+500 = 800ms so nowhere near to interrupt.

Shugo mostly does not care for Warden SB with his Hyperarmor. If removed - immediately light and dodge back.
HL - true, but he has alot going on for him now after his buffs.
Lawbringer has 500ms from top and 600ms for side.
You DO know that Warden SB is 700ms, right? Guardchange is 100ms for every Character. 500ms Attack + 100ms Guardchange + 100ms time for reacting + Xms extra time because Warden has to dodge first for SB initiate.

Enough time imo. If you cannot react to that at all - you have biiig problems with alot of other things than Warden SB...

BarbeQMichael
04-13-2018, 10:29 AM
Shugo mostly does not care for Warden SB with his Hyperarmor. If removed - immediately light and dodge back.
HL - true, but he has alot going on for him now after his buffs.
Lawbringer has 500ms from top and 600ms for side.
You DO know that Warden SB is 700ms, right? Guardchange is 100ms for every Character. 500ms Attack + 100ms Guardchange + 100ms time for reacting + Xms extra time because Warden has to dodge first for SB initiate.

Enough time imo. If you cannot react to that at all - you have biiig problems with alot of other things than Warden SB...

Shugo has not had hyperarmor after people realized it can be taken down by a simple (failed)guardbreak, after that he takes 125% damage. Guardchange is 100ms + 200ms delay with static guard heroes before attacking, add in 250-300ms (fast reaction or young people normal reaction) reaction time it becomes quite hard.

kanuzira
04-13-2018, 10:30 AM
Shugo mostly does not care for Warden SB with his Hyperarmor. If removed - immediately light and dodge back.
HL - true, but he has alot going on for him now after his buffs.
Lawbringer has 500ms from top and 600ms for side.
You DO know that Warden SB is 700ms, right? Guardchange is 100ms for every Character. 500ms Attack + 100ms Guardchange + 100ms time for reacting + Xms extra time because Warden has to dodge first for SB initiate.

Enough time imo. If you cannot react to that at all - you have biiig problems with alot of other things than Warden SB...

I have to say that if in a warden vortex i need to roll or dodge out as LB. Maby input delay but not shure

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 10:36 AM
Shugo has not had hyperarmor after people realized it can be taken down by a simple (failed)guardbreak, after that he takes 125% damage. Guardchange is 100ms + 200ms delay with static guard heroes before attacking, add in 250-300ms (fast reaction or young people normal reaction) reaction time it becomes quite hard.

I'm 36 years old and I can do it pretty reliable. Must be some hidden cheat on my PC I guess. :p

BarbeQMichael
04-13-2018, 11:00 AM
I'm 36 years old and I can do it pretty reliable. Must be some hidden cheat on my PC I guess. :p

Don't know your personal reaction times, only averages. But with normal guard heroes guardchange+attack is 300ms+500/600 = 800/900ms even without reaction time, it is pretty hard to react to 700ms move

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 11:55 AM
Don't know your personal reaction times, only averages. But with normal guard heroes guardchange+attack is 300ms+500/600 = 800/900ms even without reaction time, it is pretty hard to react to 700ms move

What? Hard to react to a 700ms move? What rig are you playing on? I can reliably react to 600ms attacks by parrying / deflecting, at least block most 500ms attacks. For me it starts to get hard with 400ms attacks.

700ms too fast... For real? Warlord Headbutt, Conq Shoulderbash, everything is faster and you complain about Warden SB? ^^

SaschoS
04-13-2018, 12:02 PM
Just pick assassin. You can pretty much spam **** out of everyone with little effort. Or pick LB if you do not like assassins. With everything else you will leave your teeth on pavement.

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 12:06 PM
Just pick assassin. You can pretty much spam **** out of everyone with little effort. Or pick LB if you do not like assassins. With everything else you will leave your teeth on pavement.

Or pick anything against SaschoS and win easily because he is bad at the game.

See what I did there? ;)

BarbeQMichael
04-13-2018, 12:07 PM
What? Hard to react to a 700ms move? What rig are you playing on? I can reliably react to 600ms attacks by parrying / deflecting, at least block most 500ms attacks. For me it starts to get hard with 400ms attacks.

700ms too fast... For real? Warlord Headbutt, Conq Shoulderbash, everything is faster and you complain about Warden SB? ^^

Dodging is different than interrupting by attack. Dodge happens usually immediately, but if you change guard and attack, you have 300ms delay with non-reflex guard heroes. So if you are playing lawbringer, you see warden doing shoulderbash so you have 700ms interrupt him. You change your guard to top, it is 300ms + 500ms = 800ms, which is already more than the 700ms, even without adding 200-300ms of reaction time.

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 12:12 PM
Dodging is different than interrupting by attack. Dodge happens usually immediately, but if you change guard and attack, you have 300ms delay with non-reflex guard heroes. So if you are playing lawbringer, you see warden doing shoulderbash so you have 700ms interrupt him. You change your guard to top, it is 300ms + 500ms = 800ms, which is already more than the 700ms, even without adding 200-300ms of reaction time.

Then, maybe, stay Top Guard as LB against Warden? You will want to do that anyway cause of his 500ms Top Light. I mean, there is a counterplay, but you refuse to accept it I think. Bad for you, I deal with Wardens just fine.

BarbeQMichael
04-13-2018, 12:29 PM
Then, maybe, stay Top Guard as LB against Warden? You will want to do that anyway cause of his 500ms Top Light. I mean, there is a counterplay, but you refuse to accept it I think. Bad for you, I deal with Wardens just fine.

Say your guard was at left from blocking his zone? Or what if you play WL then? If you guard top, your light is 600ms so it is not enough to interrupt (no one can react in 100ms), but if you change your guard to side, it adds 300ms delay so that is not an option either.

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 12:44 PM
Whatever Bro. I can do it pretty often, you cannot obviously. Dunno. Warden OP I guess. Lulz...

BarbeQMichael
04-13-2018, 12:46 PM
Whatever Bro. I can do it pretty often, you cannot obviously. Dunno. Warden OP I guess. Lulz...

Not saying it is op, just saying that it is very hard to counter (or even impossible) with some heroes. What I understood you play mainly pk and glad so obviously you will not have difficulties with it like the slower heroes.

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 01:10 PM
Not saying it is op, just saying that it is very hard to counter (or even impossible) with some heroes. What I understood you play mainly pk and glad so obviously you will not have difficulties with it like the slower heroes.

https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz/heroes

PK - Warden - Gladiator in that order. "Slower" is mostly related to dodge recovery, not attack speed. There are only very few heroes that do not have access to a 500ms attack, but we had that discussion.

No, I have very few issues with Warden on all my played Heroes. Even when Warden vs Warden (except I face Playfiends, man, that guy kicks my a*s with his constant SB feints...).

BarbeQMichael
04-13-2018, 01:16 PM
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz/heroes

PK - Warden - Gladiator in that order. "Slower" is mostly related to dodge recovery, not attack speed. There are only very few heroes that do not have access to a 500ms attack, but we had that discussion.

No, I have very few issues with Warden on all my played Heroes. Even when Warden vs Warden (except I face Playfiends, man, that guy kicks my a*s with his constant SB feints...).

Pk and glad can and will rekt the warden just by being assassins thanks to dodgeattacks and 500ms lights from every direction, and the warden can interrupt the sb with top light if he guards there and zone if not. Some heroes don't have access to 500ms attacks from neutral at all, and some, like the WL, only from sides which are not usable if you have to guard top against warden.

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 01:24 PM
Pk and glad can and will rekt the warden just by being assassins thanks to dodgeattacks and 500ms lights from every direction, and the warden can interrupt the sb with top light if he guards there and zone if not. Some heroes don't have access to 500ms attacks from neutral at all, and some, like the WL, only from sides which are not usable if you have to guard top against warden.

True. But those other Characters have other things going for them, don't forget that. WL is in a pretty bad spot duel-wise. No question. But that does not make Warden or his Shoulderbash OP in any way.

BarbeQMichael
04-13-2018, 01:29 PM
True. But those other Characters have other things going for them, don't forget that. WL is in a pretty bad spot duel-wise. No question. But that does not make Warden or his Shoulderbash OP in any way.

Yeah I didn't mean it is op. It is just that certain heroes have practically no way of countering the sb but just succumb to it, while others will easily punish warden for it. The whole sb should be reworked with the reworks.

Charmzzz
04-13-2018, 01:31 PM
Yeah I didn't mean it is op. It is just that certain heroes have practically no way of countering the sb but just succumb to it, while others will easily punish warden for it. The whole sb should be reworked with the reworks.

Oh wait, then remove Headbutt, Shove-On-Block, Shieldbash (Conq and Valk) and every other unblockable melee from neutral as well! Nope, I don't want staring contests. All bashes are, imo, fine right now except Conq Shieldbash which is a tiny bit too unpunishable for most heroes. Everything else - balanced. My opinion.

BarbeQMichael
04-13-2018, 01:36 PM
Well shove on block should obviously go. Conq shieldbash needs adjusting (more recovery to be able to counter). Headbutt can be punished by anyone.

SpaceJim12
04-13-2018, 01:43 PM
yea not all characters can just light hit him out. charmzz does like to flame everyone in these forums as far as i usually can see from his posts. inc FLAME!! so mad always is he....

Nah, Charmzzz just always use dry statistics to argue with us. And if we all played in perfect version of For Honor, all this numbers could be the answer. But with tons of microlags in the game every 1ms latency could make you parry god or compleatly looser. Cause still it seems that every single match have a little different timings to react for same moves and same chars. And while we all still can't count ms for every opponent move, we should react by visuals. And when I see how my character dodge away from HL Caber Toss and next moment I lost some frames and found my face into hand of HL, there are no ways to use statistics, sorry.

Alustar.
04-13-2018, 06:56 PM
CHARMZZZ FOR PRESIDENT

that is all.

Crosstails20
04-13-2018, 07:02 PM
Well from a couple of wise words of Youtube "A good Warden can beat any Assasin"

Cliff_001
04-13-2018, 07:19 PM
Well from a couple of wise words of Youtube "A good Warden can beat any Assasin"
Anyone can beat anyone if they are skilled enough.