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hawkmeister
06-13-2005, 08:13 AM
I've noticed since the patch that other airplanes occassionally disappear and reappear for no reason - as though they've flown behind some invisible object for a few moments. This seems to happen whether the airplane is against terrain, water, or sky. Sure adds an interesting twist to dogfights! Anyone else noticed this?

-Bill

hawkmeister
06-13-2005, 08:13 AM
I've noticed since the patch that other airplanes occassionally disappear and reappear for no reason - as though they've flown behind some invisible object for a few moments. This seems to happen whether the airplane is against terrain, water, or sky. Sure adds an interesting twist to dogfights! Anyone else noticed this?

-Bill

Hunde_3.JG51
06-13-2005, 01:27 PM
Not sure about them disappearing but it is obvious that in the patch the visibility distance for terrain and clouds were increased. I can see much farther on the horizon now and it looks great. The problem is that I can't see planes for s*** anymore. I had a hard time before because I run at high resolutions, but it seems even harder now. My eyesight is fine so that is not an issue, it is simply a game settings thing, but I won't dumb down my settings because the game was optimized for settings that were possible 10+ years ago (that is frustration talking http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif). I have noticed planes appearing out of nowhere but I can't tell if it what you are speaking about, whether it is a change with the patch, or whether it is simply more of the same. This remains my biggest complaint about the IL-2 series, aircraft visibility against terrain couldn't be this bad. And running at high resolution should make the picture clearer, instead it just makes it harder, much harder.

BM357_Hitcher
06-13-2005, 01:38 PM
Yes, I have noticed it too. I am not sure if it is an ATI driver issue, but I just installed the Cat 5.6 drivers last week. Since then, I have noticed this problem. Very strange.

strewth
06-13-2005, 01:46 PM
Yes, I noticed something weird too.

I would sometimes bank and spot an AC at a distance below. Continue to roll and split-S only to have lost it. I have trackIR and wasn't sure whether it was my vid driver or me just tripping out, But the AC just seemed to disappear.

hawkmeister
06-13-2005, 03:26 PM
I do alot of 1 v 1 human v AI dogfights so it's very noticeable to me.

I'm using an Nvidia, so thats two different systems the same thing is happening on.

-Bill

SeaFireLIV
06-13-2005, 05:17 PM
Ah, so I`m not the only one. I have a GF4Ti 4200 on 1024 X 768 and certain enemy aircarft do vanish. I`m following a 109 or mostly a 190 and it goes down among the green and *poof* the aircraft literally disappears.

I also had one extreme situation where I was flying low against the ground after a 109 when suddenly 3 109s appeared at close range right in front of me! I smply never saw them coming. It was as if they appeared out of thin air!

I can`t say what exactly is going on, but something`s not quite right. I changed to 800X600 which was slightly better, but didn`t look too great overall.

I don`t use icons.

bolillo_loco
06-13-2005, 05:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hawkmeister:
I've noticed since the patch that other airplanes occassionally disappear and reappear for no reason - as though they've flown behind some invisible object for a few moments. This seems to happen whether the airplane is against terrain, water, or sky. Sure adds an interesting twist to dogfights! Anyone else noticed this?

-Bill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

could it be that only the wings disappear for you and you have a hard time spotting only the fuselage?

at about 400 to 500 meters the wings of some aircraft possible all aircrat seem to disappear for me although I can still see the fuselage. since a lot of people use spitfires I notice this mostly with spits.

hawkmeister
06-13-2005, 05:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I don`t use icons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me either.

I really seem to notice this more when flying in the Crimea. Maybe there is too much stuff going on at the same time and redraws are being lost? I dunno. Freaky though.

-Bill

3.JG51_Stecher
06-13-2005, 08:33 PM
Yesterday I was in a QMB mission and coming up on a Spit, at about 600-700 meters his right wing disappeared for a few seconds and then came back. Never seen this before.

p1ngu666
06-13-2005, 09:28 PM
meh, its a feature.
plane is german so it goes invisable, like that famous quote.

"if its shiny its american, if its camoflaged its british, if its invisible its german"

or whatever the quote was http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Chadburn
06-13-2005, 09:31 PM
The disappearing wings on the Spits is an old problem. Seafires, and Mk VIII's had disappearing wings in 3.04. The distance this happened at varied according to your screen res; the lower it was, the nearer the effect occured. At 800x600 it happens at 500m.

With Cats 5.6 and 4.00, I no longer see wings disappear on the Mk VIII, but the MK. VIII-CW loses only its right wing now. The Seafires still lose both wings. BTW, they all lose their props at only 120m

When you say these planes disappear, is it a dot that disappears or a LOD? For the Spit, it seems the wings disappear when the plane transitions from a dot to its first LOD.

hawkmeister
06-13-2005, 10:00 PM
I notice it most at the dot and first LOD level. Not when the plane is visible as a 3D object.

I haven't flown against Spitfires, but have seen it happen with just about everything else.

-Bill

Jetbuff
06-13-2005, 10:03 PM
I think it's a terrain fidelity thing. The ground is so textured it breaks up plane contours when inside dot range. (the dot shows up fine, but the first few LOD's are just weak)

Anyway, I also second the Spit missing the right wing deal. Not sure what mark though (likely the VIII) because I only saw this once online.

Jetbuff
06-13-2005, 10:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chadburn:
For the Spit, it seems the wings disappear when the plane transitions from a dot to its first LOD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, this has been the same since 3.04. The Spitfire's wings (as well as a few other planes I'm sure, but the spit is the one that most comes to mind) are far too thin in the first couple of LOD's to show up when you are looking at it from direct 12 or 6.

msalama
06-14-2005, 12:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I notice it most at the dot and first LOD level. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems that certain planes are missing some LOD levels completely. Take the Stuka for example: 1st U see it, then you don't when U get nearer - and then U see it again at close range http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

No but seriously, that _does_ happen w/ my setup at least...

ucanfly
06-14-2005, 12:39 AM
I agree at first I thought the dots were better, but in some planes the 1st LODs stay around too close. Planes like 262 go poof!

3.JG51_Stecher
06-14-2005, 03:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chadburn:
The disappearing wings on the Spits is an old problem. Seafires, and Mk VIII's had disappearing wings in 3.04. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To me it seems to be a 4.00m issue. I never saw anything disappear until this patch except for the rear fuselage of the Dora at about 500 meters. Tonight, online for the first time, I was with a Spit and the whole time while while he was I'd guess 700-900 meters the right wing wasn't there. So from never, to twice in two nights. I've been using 5.3 Cats the whole time, so it's not a driver issue.

bolillo_loco
06-14-2005, 03:34 AM
they are Imperial Klingon fighters and they are cloaking. the reason you see them disappear and reappear is because they cannot fire while they are cloaked so they have to uncloak to fire.

Bluemax137
06-14-2005, 03:36 AM
I use an ATI Radeon and I have experienced the same problem. Above all when a plane "changes background" passing from the sky to the ground.
I thought it was something about my monitor brightness or about my seeing... But as I'm not the only one having that problem I guess it's a sort of common bug. I hope they will fix it cause sometimes is very annoying and frustrating.

MeNeFrego
Max

IAFS_Painter
06-14-2005, 06:51 AM
I've seen this with several types in 4.0m.

A similar effect WAS visible at altitude in 3.04, but this is much more noiticable (?!), and general now.

I'm using an nVidia card, and reduced graphics (ie, a long way from perfect)

TooCooL34
06-14-2005, 07:02 AM
Me too!!

Using 6600GT,
For example, when I hit F3 fly-by view, a/c pass by and disappear at some distance!!
Maybe by revised LOD thing? I don't know but I don't like it. Dot is same to me and it's harder to find bogeys now.

Hunde_3.JG51
06-14-2005, 11:18 AM
Man, I am glad to see others are having difficulty with aircraft visibility. Well, I am not happy you are having problems but you know what I mean http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. The more I fly the more it seems to be a LOD thing, it seems at times a plane will be very close but seemingly have a LOD from farther away, then suddenly it quickly changes and the plane is right on top of me. This causes me to wrongly judge aircraft distance which experience has taught me to do pretty well and I almost never fly with icons. Again, I had a hard time before mainly due to playing at high resolution, it just seems even harder now and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a LOD thing, if it is indeed anything at all.

SlickStick
06-14-2005, 12:11 PM
Just to add a little more info for this thread...

I'm running a Ti4200 128MB with DETs 66.93. First, does anyone know what the latest 1C-recommended drivers are for V4.00m?

Second, I have noticed mostly the same graphical bugs as others. Disappearing Spit props, disappearing Mk. VIII CW right wing at distance and just last night I noticed that someone was flying a P-38L that had no tails on either side. Just the elevator floating in the middle of "tail-less" fuselage parts. I have screenies at home, if this hasn't been posted before.

I'll have to start jotting down when I see an LOD bug, as to which aircraft/map/scenario...etc it is effecting. I've seen a few, but haven't been documenting them properly. I've only been flying V4.00m for a few days.

bolillo_loco
06-15-2005, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
Just to add a little more info for this thread...

I'm running a Ti4200 128MB with DETs 66.93. First, does anyone know what the latest 1C-recommended drivers are for V4.00m?

Second, I have noticed mostly the same graphical bugs as others. Disappearing Spit props, disappearing Mk. VIII CW right wing at distance and just last night I noticed that someone was flying a P-38L that had no tails on either side. Just the elevator floating in the middle of "tail-less" fuselage parts. I have screenies at home, if this hasn't been posted before.

I'll have to start jotting down when I see an LOD bug, as to which aircraft/map/scenario...etc it is effecting. I've seen a few, but haven't been documenting them properly. I've only been flying V4.00m for a few days. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sounds like a short in the klingon kloaking device to me.

I first noticed it in 3.04m and it seems that 4.0m has it as well. The spitfire is the a/c I notice the most problems with. its wings disappear at distances of about 400 meters which makes it hard to track and judge which direction it is turning.

msalama
06-15-2005, 02:08 PM
I've had this problem with every version of PF if I remember correctly... and to me it seems that some aircraft are missing a LOD level or two - 1st U see it, then U don't, and then U see it again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Chadburn
06-18-2005, 03:06 PM
Has happened to me too now several times online. Tracking a plane and suddenly it vanishes. It appears to be a problem with the first couple of LOD's. Before it was just missing wings on some Spits that I was experincing. Now it's entire planes vanishing.

I really wish we could hear from the developers about their understanding of why this is happening. I have an ati 9800 with 5.6 cats., but it seems others with nVidia cards are having similar problems.

And as problems go, this has to be one of the bigger ones.

Hunde_3.JG51
06-18-2005, 03:25 PM
Chad, me and a squad-mate were messing around the other night, he was in a Ki-84C and I was in a Hurricane IIb. Like I said, we were just goofing around http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Anyway, I was diving on him from a good distance out and he was coming straight at me, the dot changed up one LOD, then when it seemed it would change to the next he just disappeared and only his shadow remained. Again, I was diving at him straight on and I spotted him from a long way out so it should have been easier to track him, instead he just vanished.

I am using X-800XT with Catalyst 5.6 and I am seriously thinking about rolling back to 5.3 or something, in case it is a driver issue. What resolution are you running at btw?

Chadburn
06-18-2005, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
Chad, me and a squad-mate were messing around the other night, he was in a Ki-84C and I was in a Hurricane IIb. Like I said, we were just goofing around http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Anyway, I was diving on him from a good distance out and he was coming straight at me, the dot changed up one LOD, then when it seemed it would change to the next he just disappeared and only his shadow remained. Again, I was diving at him straight on and I spotted him from a long way out so it should have been easier to track him, instead he just vanished.

I am using X-800XT with Catalyst 5.6 and I am seriously thinking about rolling back to 5.3 or something, in case it is a driver issue. What resolution are you running at btw? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hunde, what you describe is exactly the way it appears to me too. I'm running 1024x768x32 on perfect settings.

The only issue I have with going back to earlier cats is that they were causing missing cockpit textures and missing runways for me. That was finally solved with the 5.4, I think.

When I think about it, it's been a looong time since gameplay has been free from visual corruptions of one sort or another.

IHI.OuTcAsT
06-18-2005, 06:49 PM
Yes I was dogfighting against ME262 and suddernly while I had him Padlocked, it disappeared. It was just the padlock indicator with no plane in it. Once it went further it appeared again and once it got a lot closer in appeared again. There must be something wrong with the LOD levels.

Hunde_3.JG51
06-18-2005, 11:10 PM
Chad, 1600x1200 on excellent here.

Outcast, what video card and drivers are you using?

CruiseTorpedo
06-19-2005, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
Not sure about them disappearing but it is obvious that in the patch the visibility distance for terrain and clouds were increased. I can see much farther on the horizon now and it looks great. The problem is that I can't see planes for s*** anymore. I had a hard time before because I run at high resolutions, but it seems even harder now. My eyesight is fine so that is not an issue, it is simply a game settings thing, but I won't dumb down my settings because the game was optimized for settings that were possible 10+ years ago (that is frustration talking http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif). I have noticed planes appearing out of nowhere but I can't tell if it what you are speaking about, whether it is a change with the patch, or whether it is simply more of the same. This remains my biggest complaint about the IL-2 series, aircraft visibility against terrain couldn't be this bad. And running at high resolution should make the picture clearer, instead it just makes it harder, much harder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really the issue they're talking about in the thread as I've also seen plane's wings disappear right in front of me. It's very clear when it happens if your below a spit (and some japanese planes too) when they make a hard break turn. With what your talking about try adjusting your dot range to 20. The default is 14km which makes all of the dots very soft colored and they really blend in too much especially when looking down. In single player just type mp_dotrange DOT 20 and see what you think.

Hunde_3.JG51
06-19-2005, 11:52 AM
Cruise, I never said anything about wings disappearing. The Spitfire thing has been reported by many people prior to 4.0 or 4.01. I also know what adjusting dotrange does, it is only useful for improving visibility against the sky in single-player, but other than testing I fly almost exclusively in multiplayer so this would not be a factor anyway as dotrange is set by server.

I appreciate the suggestion, but my problem is (as in my last post) that at times I have seen planes that I am tracking simply disappear. This when I would expect the LOD to change. My complaint is that the fact that high resolution players are punished, and have been for as long as I can remember as aircraft visibility decreases significantly when running 1600x1200.

sandman38
06-19-2005, 02:10 PM
Wow Sorry but I was a little disappointed.
Yes, OK there were some bug and other fixes were done! However the flyable aircraft pretty much stayed the same. With all the waiting and delays I was expecting more. Instead the "new" aircraft that were added were Model/Ver updates of preexisting aircraft? I was really looking forward to something really new like the De Havilland Mosquito, Hawker Tempest, or say the Italian C202 to name a few. It looks like a little more waiting. Maybe the Christmas!

LeadSpitter_
06-19-2005, 02:15 PM
even at 3500m you can not see planes on the deck until you come into a certain range then a giant black dot appears.

tracking dots on green terrain was always a little difficult but over snow and water they would always stand out sharply very far distances. having the dots appear at such short ranges is horable.

On higher resolutions higher then 1024x768 the visability distance seems increased by alot. Both draw distance of ground items and aircraft dots.

Its definatly one of the many disapointments of this 4.01 patch.

IHI.OuTcAsT
06-19-2005, 02:28 PM
Hunde_3.JG51 I got FX5600 with latest official drivers 71.89 I Think.

idonno
06-21-2005, 07:03 PM
I've already posted this as it's own thread, but was asked to put it here also.

________________________________________________
Every time I fight the Ki-100, on line or off, it constantly vanishes from sight between distances of .99 km and .70 km. Not some of the time, but all of the time.

I don't use pad lock as I did to capture these screen shots, so it's quite a problem.

I have an ATI Radeon 9600. I had been using the Catalyst 5.5 drivers, but just updated to the 5.6 drivers.



http://www.geocities.com/idonno418/sky_70.jpg
In this screen shot the 100 disappeared from sight at .99 km and as you can see, it's absolutely not visible right up to .70 km.


http://www.geocities.com/idonno418/sky_69.jpg
POOF! There it is. It's not that the thing is blending into the background. It's not being drawn on the screen at all.



http://www.geocities.com/idonno418/69_water.jpg
Now you see it.


http://www.geocities.com/idonno418/70_water.jpg
You guessed it.



http://www.geocities.com/idonno418/ground_69.jpg
It doesn't matter whether the background is land, sea, or air...

http://www.geocities.com/idonno418/ground_70.jpg
... gone, and it will not be visible at all until 1 km.

LEXX_Luthor
06-21-2005, 07:13 PM
A proposal:

The problem is aircraft LOD grafix turning to Dot. What if Oleg got rid of the Dots, and used a medium LOD that just gets realistically smaller with distance to maybe 15km maximum and then are not drawn anymore? By then most aircraft will be too small to see the tiny drawn LOD even if you know where to look for them (at the tip of a contrail for example). I think our grafix cards today can handle 30-50 small LODs ... think about flying in formation and fps is smooth. In fact, Dots are not even needed in flight sims anymore.

This is how StrikeFighters works, and I love the No Dots !!!

If somebody would like to bring this up to Oleg or the Board, do it.

stevedeth2004
06-23-2005, 07:30 AM
I had a fun one, on ZvW I was flying with my mate and he could not see my plane at all at any distance at any direction. I then pulled up and let loose a short burst he felt and heard the pings.

We were in Ki-100s. On the screen shots from me we were both there from him I was not there.