PDA

View Full Version : Polikarpov I-185 series in IL-2.



Flight_boy1990
08-28-2007, 01:03 PM
Hi,
I mostly wonna discuss the I-185 M-71 game performance here.Just pased by the wikipedia and checked the I-185 M-71,and i saw that it have the max speed of 650 km/h(so this means that the plane will start to collide at this speed),BUT in the game it starts to collide at 800 KM/H.So i wonna ask WHAT is this supposed to mean from mr.Olegs side?Not all of the lobby servers have this plane,but the blue pilots who fly in the servers which have it get NAILED by the red players,which fly only with it!!!I hardly get away from it and tryin' to save my a$$ when i'm in FW-190 A-5!!!

ps1:SO can someone tell me the level speed of this fighter in the rial life,beacause i thing this one in the game is very fast.

ps:Please be serious,cos i'm thinkin' this to be an FIX request for 4.09 too.

Flight_boy1990
08-28-2007, 01:03 PM
Hi,
I mostly wonna discuss the I-185 M-71 game performance here.Just pased by the wikipedia and checked the I-185 M-71,and i saw that it have the max speed of 650 km/h(so this means that the plane will start to collide at this speed),BUT in the game it starts to collide at 800 KM/H.So i wonna ask WHAT is this supposed to mean from mr.Olegs side?Not all of the lobby servers have this plane,but the blue pilots who fly in the servers which have it get NAILED by the red players,which fly only with it!!!I hardly get away from it and tryin' to save my a$$ when i'm in FW-190 A-5!!!

ps1:SO can someone tell me the level speed of this fighter in the rial life,beacause i thing this one in the game is very fast.

ps:Please be serious,cos i'm thinkin' this to be an FIX request for 4.09 too.

DKoor
08-28-2007, 01:41 PM
Even LaGG-3 series 4 has greater disintegration speed at deck, so in a way I find that to be unlikely (only 650km/h).....also it doesn't state is it TAS or IAS. Of course I can be wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Although fine Wiki ain't the best source for these kind of things.


But personally I'm not worried of Super Rata's disintegration speeds but of some other chars http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG53Frankyboy
08-28-2007, 02:54 PM
lot of air for a plane with this historical backround http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"The I-185 prototype equipped with the M-71 engine which first flew on June 10, 1942 was designated a "production standard", i.e. a prototype which was to be used as a standard for future production. Compared to other prototypes of the series many defects were resolved and the overall aerodynamics improved. The I-185 M-71 production standard was built from the blueprints intended for serial production.

The I-185 M-71 production standard, in addition to the I-185 M-71 #6204 and two I-185 M-82 went through front line combat testing between December of 1942 and January of 1943. Speed and climb rate of this prototype were vastly superior to all contemporary Soviet fighters. However due to political reason and lobbying from Polikarpov's enemies the project never entered production and was cancelled."

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Levon1981
08-28-2007, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
Hi,
I mostly wonna discuss the I-185 M-71 game performance here.Just pased by the wikipedia and checked the I-185 M-71,and i saw that it have the max speed of 650 km/h(so this means that the plane will start to collide at this speed),BUT in the game it starts to collide at 800 KM/H.So i wonna ask WHAT is this supposed to mean from mr.Olegs side?Not all of the lobby servers have this plane,but the blue pilots who fly in the servers which have it get NAILED by the red players,which fly only with it!!!I hardly get away from it and tryin' to save my a$$ when i'm in FW-190 A-5!!!

ps1:SO can someone tell me the level speed of this fighter in the rial life,beacause i thing this one in the game is very fast.

ps:Please be serious,cos i'm thinkin' this to be an FIX request for 4.09 too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The I-185 M-71 that you checked in wikipedia, I guess, was not the final version of the prototype, if you can put it that way, or, in other words, in wikipedia you read about the very first I-185 with M-71 engine that first flew in 1941. The I-185 M-71 we have in the game is, in fact, the I-185 M-71 "Etalon"(that made its maden flight in 1942) that is, the first-rate, first-class and superb exemplar, which was intended to be a perfect example (prototype) for the future serial production, that is pre-serial aircraft. This aircraft, compared with its predecessor, went through significant aero-dynamical improvements, and is, even externally, different. The I-185 M-71 "Etalon" could achieve 680 km/h at 6600 6800 m, and 600 km/h at sea level. So, regarding the I-185 M-71 we have in the game there is nothing to FIX.

alert_1
08-29-2007, 01:40 AM
Avarage TBF (time between failure) of M71 was something like 20min....but with wingloadint about 240km/m was still much beter turner then Fw190 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

JG52Karaya-X
08-29-2007, 03:05 AM
Keep in mind that the I-185s M71 engine was far from being reliable, indeed it was such a catastrophe that the whole engine program was cancelled in the end. If anything then it would have been the M-82 version to reach serial production and that one isn't really spectacular being on the same performance level as the early La-5

PS: You will only find the I185s on arcade servers because you can count the number of combat missions flown as well as the number of produced aircraft with 2 hands

Flight_boy1990
08-29-2007, 10:25 AM
Well,trusting to the Karaya's post,i think we have what to FIX http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .Thats the OVERHEATING!I flew this plane at full power +WEP(+supercharger on pos.2(i forgot did it have a supercharger option,but i thing it had when i flew it))+ratiator Open for some 20 mins,and i didn't get an Overheat message.
And when it had an reliable engine,i suggest the ingame plane to have the same failure as the ME-109 G-6/AS,14,10 and K-4 series,you know...when you turn on the WEP at 110% power,you'll break your engine,so i suggest the same to be for I-185 series in the game.
So what you think?

ElAurens
08-31-2007, 04:36 PM
I think someone is getting shot down on arcade servers, that's what I think.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Flight_boy1990
09-01-2007, 09:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
I think someone is getting shot down on arcade servers, that's what I think.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well it's true in some casses,so if you want to see what i mean fly your poor ingame KI-61 against the I-185 and you'll see.You'll be a sittin' duck!!!

JG52Karaya-X
09-01-2007, 04:53 PM
Why are you wasting so much time on "fixing" an aircraft that never entered serial production let alone made any contribution to the war what so ever. As said before there were only a handful of them made and they suffered terribly from engine reliability problems leaving them grounded most of the time. The problem with IL2 is that production quality and reliability is not modelled, otherwise your I185 jockey would experience a seized engine every 20min.

If you really have to fly with/against the I185 then take the M82, it's much closer to what the Super Rata could have been like had it been put into service...

Ruy Horta
09-02-2007, 01:57 AM
Reliability may be missing from this sim, but that can be curbed by certain performance variables. As it stands the I-185 has no engine vices, it can be punished and flown full WEP for extended periods.

Overheating and (like some jets and chemically boosted engines) sensitivity to rash powermanagement, which would be in accord with a troublesome engine and the way pilots react to that fact, would go a very long way to redress the balance.

Ratsack
09-02-2007, 05:20 AM
It's a fantasy plane in terms of actual combat. Complaining about its performance is a little like complaining about the performance of the Lerche, YP-80 or Ta-183.

cheers,
Ratsack

ElAurens
09-02-2007, 12:14 PM
Except that unlike the Lerche, Ta 183, and Bf 109Z, the YP80 and I-185 were actually built and flown, and there are real world performance numbers for these aircraft.

And Flight_Boy, I have flown in and agianst I-185s of both models, there is nothing special about them. It has good performance for a '42/'43 aircraft, nothing more.

Flight_boy1990
09-03-2007, 03:46 AM
You mean "Very very good performence in '42,'43 planesets!"
And again oposite to the reality,the M-82 is much more crapy in the IL-2,in starts to separate at 600-700,and the M-71 starts to separate at 800 km/h

Ratsack
09-03-2007, 04:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Except that unlike the Lerche, Ta 183, and Bf 109Z, the YP80 and I-185 were actually built and flown, and there are real world performance numbers for these aircraft.
.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whatever.

No P-80s saw combat in WWII. A mere handful (7?) I-185s may have seen some action. Perhaps. So for the purposes of this sim - a WWII combat flight sim - it's a fantasy plane like the 109Z et al. Nice additions, but basically sci fi in the context of the main sim.

cheers,
Ratsack

JG52Karaya-X
09-03-2007, 05:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
And again oposite to the reality,the M-82 is much more crapy in the IL-2,in starts to separate at 600-700,and the M-71 starts to separate at 800 km/h </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why is it opposite to reality!? The terms M82 and M71 refer to the type of engines use namely the M82 (also found on the La5/7, takeoff power around 1700hp) and M71 (found nowhere else, actually a total catastrophe and cancelled in the end, takeoff power around 2000hp). It could perfectly be that the envisioned M71 version was structurally stronger and capable of diving to higher speeds but that is pure speculation anyway...

JG52Karaya-X
09-03-2007, 05:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
No P-80s saw combat in WWII. A mere handful (7?) I-185s may have seen some action. Perhaps. So for the purposes of this sim - a WWII combat flight sim - it's a fantasy plane like the 109Z et al. Nice additions, but basically sci fi in the context of the main sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

ElAurens
09-03-2007, 07:15 AM
If you are calling aircraft that actually flew "fantasy", then I suggest you need a much more authoritative dictionary.

And it has been documented many times that the YP80s in Italy did indeed fly sorties. Saw no enemy aircraft, but did indeed fly in theatre.

Unlike the German "paper napkin" aircraft that have made their unfortunate appearance in this sim.

Ratsack
09-03-2007, 04:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
...

And it has been documented many times that the YP80s in Italy... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, both of them!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
did indeed fly sorties. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahem.

Now, go back and read what I wrote in my last post. The bit about context. Look that word up in your authoritative dictionary. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

cheers,
Ratsack

ElAurens
09-04-2007, 05:30 AM
Come on, the original poster is a whiner and now you are playing semantics,

I wonder why I bother with you children sometimes.

Context my behind.

The YP80 is as real as real can be, and so was the I 185.

Ratsack
09-04-2007, 05:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Come on, the original poster is a whiner </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whining about an imaginary combat plane.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
and now you are playing semantics, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it was you that started the semantic soft shoe shuffle when you got excited about me including your P-80 in the WWII fantasy bag with the I-185 and the other irrelevant types.

Glad you enjoyed the outcome.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The YP80 is as real as real can be, and so was the I 185. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah right. For the purposes of combat in WWII, which is what this sim is actually about, it's about as real as the Horten wing.

cheers,
Ratsack

ElAurens
09-04-2007, 10:31 AM
http://www.scvhistory.com/gif/lw2199.jpg

go away little boy, you bother me...

joeap
09-04-2007, 01:01 PM
Calm down guys. Here W.C. have a bourbon on me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ratsack
09-04-2007, 04:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:


go away little boy, you bother me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very insecure, aren't you.

cheers,
Ratsack

lindyman
09-11-2007, 12:16 PM
Sorry for detracting from the insults and go back to the topic, sort of.

Is VNE described as being limited by the aerodynamic forces on the airframe, or by oscillation?

If it is limited by aerodynamic forces, it is a limit in indicated airspeed. Such a limit is somewhat flexible, since you always incorporate some safety margin because you want to make sure no plane fails when below the stated limit, and there are material and manufacturing induced differences between individuals, as well as margin for inaccuracies in the calculations (think about it, even today, with the much much vaster knowledge about aerodynamics, engineering, materials, manufacturing techniques, not to mention pure computing power, we still make test flights instead of relying completely on our computations.)

If the limit is due to oscillation, the situation is quite diffent. Then the limit is in true airspeed. The way an oscillation limit is tested is to fly the plane in smooth air at increasing true airspeeds and give the stick a fair punch. When you reach a speed when the plane doesn't go bach to smooth flight within a few oscillations, you've passed the speed where the plane is safe to operate. Note the word "passed" here. You go above it in the tests. It doesn't begin to fall apart as you pass it either, but you get closer and closer to a point where it becomes impossible for a pilot to save the day, should some small aerodynamical disturbance shake the plane.

The latter test is something that aircraft homebuilders do as part of their normal test flight phase, so it's not limited to "the right stuff" people.
_
/Bjorn

Daiichidoku
09-11-2007, 05:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
I have flown in and agianst I-185s of both models, there is nothing special about them. It has good performance for a '42/'43 aircraft, nothing more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yknow i like ya, ElAurens.....

but WTF? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

it has performance approaching (and in some cases, surpassing) most if not all 44/45 product

ridiculous, foul joke...with its performance as witnessed in game, IF it is to be beleived, then NO F'in WAY it would have been cancelled for "political considerations"

if it was THAT good, who cares abotu the designer if your the "man of steel"? have the plane made, and if u have prob with designer, shoot him anyhow, or gulag

lets put it this way:

i WISH with all might that Oleg had a friend who's grandfather flew P 38s.....http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



uncomforatble throttle lever my azz