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tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-19-2006, 08:47 AM

jasonbirder
04-19-2006, 08:52 AM
Definately interested in a realistic WW2 Tank Sim...
Can't wait to blow those Russian infantry tank hunters away with my Nahverteidigungswaffe!!!

JarheadEd
04-19-2006, 08:55 AM
I want to attack '88s with a bren gun carrier,...Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-19-2006, 08:56 AM
Sorry realised my catagorisation may have been a little misleading so I have adjusted the responses

appologies

Texan...
04-19-2006, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by JarheadEd:
I want to attack '88s with a bren gun carrier,...Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I want to attack Bren gun carriers with an 88.



http://www.killifish.f9.co.uk/Malta%20WWII/Photo's/Miscellaneous/Bren1.jpg

Low_Flyer_MkVb
04-19-2006, 09:25 AM
Bring it on, we're ready...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/advs1024.jpg

panther3485
04-19-2006, 09:30 AM
No need to tell any of you guys where I stand on this one!

panther3485

SnailRunner
04-19-2006, 09:47 AM
Gimme a panther......

WW2 online. played the game to drive tanks

Red orchestra. play the game to drive tanks

T-72 balkans on fire. play the game to drive tanks

10 years in the army. did it to drive tanks

Think i got a problem..lol

Lodovik
04-19-2006, 09:58 AM
The time is night.
He whoso codeth the first truly realistic WW2 tank/combined arms sim with off & online play shall the true born king of treadhead sim players be (and make a tidy profit, too).
In other words, Yes there's room for a WW2 tank sim in the world. Room enough for a whole series, actually.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-19-2006, 10:20 AM
Well its good to know there are a few of us out there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

And its nice to know there is something else besides BOB to look forward to this year http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Slightly OT but still on the theme of heavy armour

Theres a couple of vids on this site I found quite interesting.

Tanks and snow just two of my favourite things

Link found in forum at

Http://www.steelbeasts.com

http://www.panssariprikaati.fi/index.php?pageid=15

Texan...
04-19-2006, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
Bring it on, we're ready...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/advs1024.jpg

Right.

At the moment I only have the gun...is that ok?

http://www.sdkfz.com/site/images/gallery/jagdpanther/test_fire.jpg

Vacillator
04-19-2006, 10:33 AM
Those models look great. If the physics and DM is up to scratch I'll gladly fork out some of my hard-earned readies. Anyone know when it might be done? I guess I'm lining myself up for 'two weeks' answers but what the heck...

joeap
04-19-2006, 10:41 AM
Me please, just don't put me in a "Tommy Cooker" unless it has a 17 pounder. Would prefer a Tiger (I'll take my chances with the 50s) or a T-34/85 please thx.

mortoma
04-19-2006, 11:01 AM
A few years back I tried Panzer Elite, it had it's
good points. Has anyone in here ever tried that sim?? I mean in it's heyday. It's too old now of course, outdated.

Skycat_2
04-19-2006, 11:04 AM
I'm excited to see how this one develops. The interiors look very good, and the externals are jaw-dropping.

I was looking forward to Panzer Elite II, until it became a X-Box 360 console game (http://www.3dgamers.com/news/more/1096482333/).

I really enjoyed Panzer Commander back in the day, before XP made it unplayable. Panzer Elite Special Edition was okay but I always found it more frustrating than fun. I installed WWII Online just to test out the vehicles, and I thought the armor in that would have made for an excellent dedicated 'standalone' sim. I'm glad somebody is taking on this aspect ... finally, some WWII tank warfare that is as graphically pleasing as "Battlefield 1942" but is also a serious sim!

TC_Stele
04-19-2006, 11:05 AM
Wow, it's about time. Hopefully it lives up to Panzer Elite and more. Panzer Elite Action was a major disappointment and shouldnt even have the title of Panzer Elite.

BrewsterPilot
04-19-2006, 11:06 AM
tHeBaLrOgRoCkS, are you a registered member at Subsim.com? If so, what is your username?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-19-2006, 11:08 AM
I am afraid I have no more information on that Sim other than what is posted in that link but it is at least (apparently) still active and the cockpit shots are very promising

panther3485
04-19-2006, 11:35 AM
Hi mortoma

Quote:
"A few years back I tried Panzer Elite, it had it's good points. Has anyone in here ever tried that sim?? I mean in it's heyday. It's too old now of course, outdated."

Yep. With a few reservations, Panzer Elite with the mods & add-ons was very good, I thought. Something in that style but with better graphics and a bit of extra polish in the right spots would be just the go, I reckon.

I recently checked out the demo for 'Panzer Elite Action' and it was a massive disappointment to me.

Hope somebody 'does it right' sometime soon!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


Best regards,
panther3485

faustnik
04-19-2006, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
A few years back I tried Panzer Elite, it had it's
good points. Has anyone in here ever tried that sim?? I mean in it's heyday. It's too old now of course, outdated.

Still playing PE here. The graphics are outdated but, it's still great. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-19-2006, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by BrewsterPilot:
tHeBaLrOgRoCkS, are you a registered member at Subsim.com? If so, what is your username?

Hello BrewsterPilot,

I am now, and I will give you three guess's what my Username is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Sintubin
04-19-2006, 12:42 PM
Where is the dev webpage ??

it looks nice

BrewsterPilot
04-19-2006, 12:50 PM
tHeBaLrOgRoCkS possibly?

Now you guess mine!

anasteksi
04-19-2006, 12:52 PM
brrrrrmmmmmbrrrmmmmmmmm

stathem
04-19-2006, 01:01 PM
Pe-2

Il-10

VVS46

GT's Knights of the Sky

BoB.

That thing with the Harriers.

I get about 6 hours a week. When do you propose I drive these 'so called' tanks?

But if anyone brings out a Napoleonic era Ship of the Line sim ,let me know will you?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-19-2006, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by BrewsterPilot:
tHeBaLrOgRoCkS possibly?

Now you guess mine!

Lol Close but no cigar http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hmm well if I was going to post based on your avatar I would say you must be a Hydrocarbons Analyst but that cant be right now can it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

AKA_TAGERT
04-19-2006, 09:28 PM
To make a good WWII tank sim you need one thing.. a good damage model. Without it, the rest is worthless.

WTE_Galway
04-19-2006, 11:16 PM
as WWII tank sims go I like Battlefronts "Flames of War" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just bought myself a new Ferdinand last week http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Images/german/GE131.jpg


only problem is there is no computer version its all miniatures and dice

F0_Dark_P
04-20-2006, 04:01 AM
hell yeah!! i have been waiting for this to long now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

HotelBushranger
04-20-2006, 04:11 AM
As long as I get to drive Matildas and Crusaders I'll be happy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Looks great though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

F0_Dark_P
04-20-2006, 04:30 AM
No i will sit in a Tiger pretending to be Michael Wittman
wrooooom ....gabaaaaaaang ......boooooom .......sherman obliterated http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

RCAF_Irish_403
04-20-2006, 04:47 AM
Bring on the Tanks!1!1!

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-20-2006, 04:57 AM
Still gathering links and info here but it seems you can find out more from simhq now its back up and running.

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....ic;f=11;t=000606;p=1 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000606;p=1)

little more

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb...._topic;f=11;t=000586 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000586)

woofiedog
04-20-2006, 07:44 AM
Tank's... Oh Yah!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://wwiitanks.tripod.com/images/USA-M4A3_Sherman-06.jpg

Kocur_
04-20-2006, 07:59 AM
Pre-KwK40 L/43 and OTOH pre-ZiS-S-53, pre-17pdr and pre-76,2mm M1 scenarios will be kinda one-sided...

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-20-2006, 08:54 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Ahh yes but with the all new tungstun interositer I am sure things will balance out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Seriously.

Its still way to early to make any assumptions about gameplay balance ect.

Lets just sit back and see before we all shoot our collective bolts shall we? There will be plenty of time to break out our labcoats http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Personaly I am just greatful that someone out there has finaly recognised there is a gap in the market and is willing to try and fill it.

Shultze_87
04-20-2006, 10:34 AM
the last good tank game/sim i played was something named panzer ... (i forgot what) on the original PS..it has a decent graphic considering the platform,realistic combat(angle of penetration etc etc) and great historical missions..i can still recall supporting infantry attacking a hill during the initial assault of operation citadel(in a tiger),ambushing the brtish in villers bocage,and running for your life(in a panther) during the final battle of berlin..old memories just popped up mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

i definitely need a new great WW2 tank sim!~

TC_Stele
04-20-2006, 11:33 AM
I have to say that some of the developers for these sims rock! This one is to be released in Russia of next year. The name Tiger vs T-34 shouldn't be surprising, but like IL2 hopefully it expands to the western front, african front, etc.

I'm getting really tired of US game developers spitting out arcade games at us, keep it up on the other end.

panther3485
04-20-2006, 11:39 AM
I sympathise to a certain extent, but...

For most new games, demos are available and...

You vote with your cash. If you don't like a game, don't buy it.


Best regards,
panther3485

TC_Stele
04-20-2006, 12:40 PM
Believe me I don't. And surprisingly I have never bought a good US game developed sim since TIE Fighter, and even then that's not saying a whole lot.

US game companies have the resources to make good sims/games, but the almight game console keeps calling to them. The most frustrating to date is LucasArts.

Texan...
04-20-2006, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by F0_Dark_P:
No i will sit in a Tiger pretending to be Michael Wittman
wrooooom ....gabaaaaaaang ......boooooom .......sherman obliterated http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Don't pretend to be him too terribly long.

http://www.2iemeguerre.com/blindes/images/image370.jpg

WTE_Galway
04-20-2006, 05:24 PM
Wittman was eventually killed by a Sherman


Admittedly a Firefly with a 17 pdr instead of the normal gun .. but still a Sherman

icrash
04-20-2006, 06:19 PM
There was something in Panzer Aces 1 or 2 about Wittman's death. It was 5 Shermans from a Canadien outfit that ganged up on him. At least that was one of the theories. I don't think they were really sure about what happened.

danjama
04-20-2006, 06:28 PM
Im interested.

WTE_Galway
04-20-2006, 06:33 PM
Ok .. looks like I was wrong on that one

Seems almost certian with recent research proving for certain Wittman was killed in "007" that it was actually a rocket from a RAF Typhoon that took out Wittman .....


"Until 1983, the destruction of Wittman's Tiger was an mystery even for crews of sSSPzAbt 101. Many sources say that it was destroyed by the "Firefly Ambush", but different units claimed to ambush and destroy Wittmann's Tiger, including those of the either 1st Polish Armoured Division, 4th Canadian Armoured Division (Canadian Shermans supposedly surrounded and shot Wittmann's Tiger to pieces) or 33rd British Independent Armored Brigade. In the memoirs of a former member Mr.F.R of sSSPzAbt 101, official version at the time stated that Wittmann's Tiger was destroyed by an airplane bomb. Both presented a picture of Wittmann's Tiger without its turret with the gun barrel placed on the hull which in fact is the picture of SS-Untersturmführer Alfred Günther's Tiger destroyed by an airplane bomb at Evrecy. Along with those two versions, some claims were made that units which were not even present in the area at the time, were responsible for destroying Wittmann's Tiger. Both versions were proven wrong in 1945, by Mr.Serge Varin who found Tiger #007. Mr.Varin was interested in this tank because its turret was teared away from the hull. Mr.Varin examined Wittmann's Tiger and noticed that it was not penetrated by any shells fired at it during the fighting. The only damage to the hull was a big hole in the rear, near the engine deck. further examination Mr.Varin concluded that the impact came from the air. The rocket hit Tiger's rear deck (made of 25mm thick armor), penetrated the air intakes and exploded causing the explosion in the engine compartment and fighting compartment which ignited the stored ammunition. The second explosion instantly killed the entire crew and blew off the turret into the air. Wittmann's Tiger was destroyed by a rocket fired from a Royal Air Force Hawker "Typhoon" MkIB - attack aircraft. Typhoons were armed with HE (High-explosive) rockets and took heavy tow of German tanks during the Normandy battles (for example on August 8th of 1944, Typhoons destroyed 135 German tanks and among those Tiger #007). Michael Wittmann and his crew was killed in action on August 8th of 1944, at Gaumesnil near Cintheaux. In March of 1983, the unmarked field grave of Tiger #007's crew was discovered during the construction of the road and was excavated. It was possible to identify the remains by Wittmann's dental records and Heinrich Reimers's (driver) identification tag. Wittmann and his crew was then officially buried in the German Military Cemetery of "De La Cambe" in Normandy, France. That event had fully proven the exact location of Wittmann's Tiger and its fate as previosly suggested by Mr.Varin. "


http://users.pandora.be/dave.depickere/Text/wittman.html

icrash
04-20-2006, 08:46 PM
Panzer Aces 1 says that Wittman charged into the Polish 1st Armored Division east of Cintheaux. The tanks were Shermans. Wittmann was corned by 3 to 5 of them and destroyed after taking fire from 3 sides. This is what happened according to SS-Oberfuhrer Meyer. The info he had was from other tank commanders who had been in Wittmann's vicinity. At the end of the chapter, the author states that there is a controversy surrounding Wittmann's death.
Somewhat irrelevant: 2 Panthers, an IS-2, and a T-34/85 all burning outside Ogledow.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/icrash/Shot00033.jpg

JG52_wunsch
04-20-2006, 09:03 PM
i think the canadians were using the sherman "firefly" with the british gun.was it the british 2lb?that game looks sweet by the way.

luftluuver
04-20-2006, 10:17 PM
The Sherman Firefly used a 17lb gun of 77mm calibre.

The 2lb gun was of 40mm calibre.


Typhoons were armed with HE (High-explosive) rockets and took heavy tow of German tanks during the Normandy battles (for example on August 8th of 1944, Typhoons destroyed 135 German tanks. Well we can put this farmers tale to bed with a fable such as quoted.

Read this, http://web.telia.com/~u18313395/normandy/articles/airpower.html (http://web.telia.com/%7Eu18313395/normandy/articles/airpower.html)

Often the German attack at Mortain is used as an example to show the effectiveness of the fighter-bombers as tank killers. But in fact this engagement is rather an example of vastly exaggerated claims. The British 2nd TAF claimed to have destroyed or damaged 140 German tanks in the Mortain area 7 - 10 August, while 9th US Air Force claimed 112. This actually <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">exceeded the number of German tanks employed in the operation</span>. In fact no more than 46 tanks were lost in the operation and of these only nine had been hit by air weapons.

icrash
04-20-2006, 10:26 PM
I have never been able to figure out this whole pound thing concerning the British guns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
The 17 pounder did work nicely as an AT gun in North Africa. The game is pretty cool, at least until the AI decides to drive. It always seems to try it after I get set up in a good defile position. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif They usually don't listen when told to stop so I can take a shot either. Oh well, it's far better at the tank thing than BF1942.

luftluuver
04-20-2006, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by icrash:
I have never been able to figure out this whole pound thing concerning the British guns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
It dates back to the black powder muzzle loading days. It is the weight of shot(cannonball).

WTE_Galway
04-20-2006, 10:42 PM
The Brits use average projectile weight rather than calibre to classify there artillery.

The mid-late war 17 pounder firing sabot APDS was apparently a more effective gun than both the 88/L56 of the Tiger I or 75/L70 fitted to the Panther.

woofiedog
04-21-2006, 12:21 AM
A bit of info on Micheal Wittman... http://users.pandora.be/dave.depickere/Text/wittman.html

http://www.alanhamby.com/Gallery/wittman.jpg
Michael Wittman and crew in front of their Tiger.

http://www.2iemeguerre.com/blindes/images/image370.jpg

http://www.2iemeguerre.com/blindes/images/image371.jpg

http://www.2iemeguerre.com/blindes/images/image372.jpg

Links:
http://fprado.com/armorsite/tiger2.htm
http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/tiger.htm (http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/%7Ewhatfor/tiger.htm)

woofiedog
04-21-2006, 12:55 AM
http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/h-honda-g/heihati/image/jagd_t_0017.jpg

Jagdpanzer Jagdtiger (Hunting Tiger), SdKfz 186
Principal manufacturer(s): Henschel, Steyr
Production date(s): 1944-45
Armament: 1 x 128mm PaK 44 L/55; 1 x 7.92mm MG
Crew: 6
Weight in action: 75 tons
Overall length: 7.8m
Height: 2.945m
Width: 3.625m
Track width: 60 or 80cm (narrow one for rail transport)
Ground clearance: 48cm
Maximum road speed: 35km/h
Range (roads): 120km
Range (cross-country): 80km
Engine type: Maybach HL230 P 30 V-12 petrol
Engine power: 700 bhp at 3,000 rpm
Engine capacity: 23,880 cc
Fuel capacity: 860 liters
Armor thickness: superstructure 80-150mm; hull 80-200mm

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/2833/heer/antitank/jagdtiger/jagdtigerdata.jpg

Links:
http://www.wargamer.com/Hosted/Panzer/tankdestroy2.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/3120/td.html
http://www.davidpride.com/Israeli_Armor/Armor_index.htm
http://www.battletanks.com/nashorn.htm

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-21-2006, 01:01 AM
Great links Woofie cheers

woofiedog
04-21-2006, 01:36 AM
With the maps we have in IL-2 it would be Great to see some type of Armor Game come out.

Glad you like the Links. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-21-2006, 05:52 AM
Lol indeed It would be interesting to see if some kind of cross over rpg type atmosphere could be generated between the two comunities should this make it to the shelves. Some kind of web based campaign generator where the outcome of ones sims mission could affect the objectives of another. But I suspect that is probably a little far fetched at the current time but sure would be nice.

P.s I did notice in some of the screen shots that airpower does seem to be represented although I am sure that will be of a scripted ai nature.

Top left ?

http://games.iddk.ru/images/extra/t34_prototype_0007.jpg

panther3485
04-21-2006, 05:55 AM
Hi there, luftluuver

Quote:
"The Sherman Firefly used a 17lb gun of 77mm calibre."

The gun used in the Firefly was the 'Ordnance, QF, 17pdr' and its calibre was 3" or 76.2mm. It started life as a towed anti-tank gun but proved excessively heavy at 2 tons! It became truly successful when mounted on a Valentine infantry tank chassis as the 'Archer' and was most famous when adapted to the Sherman. It was also mounted on other vehicles, such as the M10 tank destroyer ('Achilles') and the first version of the Centurion.

There was also the 'Ordnance, QF, 77mm (3in)' tank gun, which was precisely the same calibre. The reason for using '77mm' in the designation was to clearly distinguish this gun from others of the 3in/76.2mm calibre that were in the Allied inventory. It had a slightly shorter barrel and used a shorter, fatter cartridge. This weapon was specialized for use in the new A34 Comet cruiser tank, which just made it into action before the war in Europe ended. It was only marginally less potent than the original but was better suited to working in the confines of a smaller turret.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards,
panther3485

ploughman
04-21-2006, 06:02 AM
Wittmann was killed in action less than two months after Villers-Bocage, on August 8. Participating in Operation Totalise, his tank was destroyed near the town of Cintheaux. The exact means of his death are in dispute. What is known is that his tank was hit by two shots to the right rear flank which tore the turret from the vehicle.

One explanation has been that Wittmann was killed following a skirmish in which the rear of his company was ambushed by tanks of the 1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry. The shots are claimed to have come from a single Sherman Firefly commanded by Sgt. Gordon and gunned by Trooper Joe Ekins, of the 3rd Platoon, A Squadron, part of the 33rd Armoured Brigade at around 1240 hours.

Other units in the area also claimed that the hit was theirs, specifically Major Radley-Walters of the Sherbrooke Fusilier Regiment of 4th Canadian Armoured Division, as well as the 2nd Polish Armoured Regiment of the 1st Polish Armoured Division.

The most recent book to study the subject is No Holding Back by Brian Reid, which provides a detailed topographical map of the engagement, and is benefited by extensive review of Allied and German records (the book is about Operation Totalise but devotes an entire appendix to the subject of Wittman's demise). Reid concludes that there are even odds between the Canadians and the British as far as Wittmann's death.

There has previously been much speculation (for example, in After the Battle magazine) that a high-explosive (RP-3) rocket from a RAF Hawker Typhoon aircraft dealt the fatal blow to Wittmann's Tiger. Reid has discredited the Typhoon theory by close examination of 2nd Tactical Air Force logs, concluding "no tanks were claimed destroyed or damaged in the forward areas by immediate support aircraft and ... the only tanks claimed were by Typhoons on armed reconnaissance missions in areas away from the actual battle. Therefore Wittman and his crew almost assuredly did not fall victim to an attack from the air." (p. 429) German records also seem to confirm this; Reid mentions that Kurt Meyer, Wittman's commanding officer, "made a point of remarking on the Allies' failure to use their tactical fighters on the morning of 8 August."

This is from Wikipedia and therefore hardly the last word on the demise of Wittman. The damage to the Tiger's interesting. Shame about Wittman, apart from being in the SS and fighting for the forces of darkness he was clearly the cat's meow when it came to armoured combat.

panther3485
04-21-2006, 06:06 AM
Hi there, woofiedog

Good to see your interest in this subject!

Small typo (I assume) in your post:

Quote:
"Armor thickness: superstructure 80-200mm; hull 80-200mm"

Not counting the 'horizontal' plates (roofs and floors), your figures are correct except for one. Maximum armour thickness for the hull was 150mm (not 200mm). However, this was the glacis (upper front) plate, which was sloped at such an angle that the effective thickness was much greater in most situations.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


Best regards,
panther3485

luftluuver
04-21-2006, 06:07 AM
Serves me right for going by memeory and not looking it up. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

woofiedog
04-21-2006, 06:14 AM
panther3485... Thank's for the correct info. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

panther3485
04-21-2006, 06:30 AM
Hi there, Ploughman

Quote:
"This is from Wikipedia and therefore hardly the last word on the demise of Wittman. The damage to the Tiger's interesting. Shame about Wittman, apart from being in the SS and fighting for the forces of darkness he was clearly the cat's meow when it came to armoured combat."

Try 'Tiger Ace - The Life Story of Panzer Commander Michael Wittman', Gary L. Simpson, Schiffer Military History. First published 1994.

Reading the paragraphs of the appropriate chapter, they deal in detail with the actions on both sides that day and finish thus:

"Trooper Ekins swung his 17pdr main gun onto the nearest Tiger I (Wittmann) and fired one shot that ripped into the right side track pannier of the enemy Tiger I. A great flash and explosion was the direct result and the huge German panzer burst into flames. Suddenly, there was a secondary explosion which resulted in the turret of this vehicle being blown from its superstructure, and hurled about fifty feet behind the machine after the on-board ammunition had ignited.....
.....Within fifty-five minutes of the early afternoon of August 8, 1944, SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer Michael Wittmann, the most famous 'Panzer Ace' of World War II with a total of 138 tank kills to his (and his crew's) credit and 132 anti-tank guns and field pieces destroyed, was killed in action by the 1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry, No. 3 Troop, in and around St. Aignan-de-Cramesnil, where he fought and lost his last panzer battle...."


Epilogue

"Curiously, with his military exploits so extraordinary, people who knew Michael Wittmann said he was not a career soldier and had no taste for war. He was a simple farm reared youth who enlisted as his patriotic duty. Perhaps his exposure to hunting and the daily involvement with powered machinery throughout his childhood, and early adulthood, account for the inherent ease in which he commanded the tools of his military exploits upon the armored battlefield."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


Best regards,
panther3485

mynameisroland
04-21-2006, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by SnailRunner:
Gimme a panther......



MMM gimme a Comet or a Hetzer!

panther3485
04-21-2006, 07:30 AM
Hi there, WTE_Galway

Quote:
"The mid-late war 17 pounder firing sabot APDS was apparently a more effective gun than both the 88/L56 of the Tiger I or 75/L70 fitted to the Panther."

Leaving aside the question of HE performance and general usefulness, in the purely anti-armour role the 17pdr was somewhat better than the 88mm L/56 of the Tiger I and was approximately equal to the 75mm L/70 of the Panther. Of course, this is assuming 'equivalent' ammunition types being used by both guns i.e:

The standard armour-piercing shot, most commonly used:
APCBC at 884 m/sec for the Firefly
vs.
APCBC (Pzgr39) at 925 m/sec for the Panther

Or the 'hyper velocity' special armour-piercing shot, less commonly used and initially at least, in shorter supply on both sides:
APDS at 1,204 m/sec for the Firefly
vs.
APCR (PzGr40) at 1,120 m/sec for the Panther


Being so closely matched in gunpower was one thing, of course. Armour was another and while the Panther could knock out the Sherman at any combat range with ease, frontally or otherwise, even the Firefly occasionally had difficulties against the Panther's frontal armour at longer ranges, usually on account of the sloping glacis of the German tank.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


Best regards,
panther3485

icrash
04-21-2006, 08:58 AM
I didn't know the Brits used shell weight to classify their hardware. This is proof you can always learn something new. Balrog, what was that screenie from?

HotelBushranger
04-21-2006, 09:06 AM
Whos this Wittman bloke? I gathered he's the bees kness of tank combat?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-21-2006, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by icrash:
Balrog, what was that screenie from?

That is an early screenshot from the pre alpha stage of a proposed tank sim with the working title of

WWII Battle Tanks: T-34 vs. Tiger

and is what prompted me to post this poll in the first place

http://games.iddk.ru/images/extra/t34_prototype_0015.jpg

http://games.iddk.ru/images/extra/t34_prototype_0022.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif


You will find lots more in the Simhq forums under turret talk. Were a chap with a pretty close relationship with the developers has been posting quite a bit

ploughman
04-21-2006, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Whos this Wittman bloke? I gathered he's the bees kness of tank combat?

He basically raped a unit of the UK 7th Armoured Division in Normandy single handed in his Tiger and held up the entire division's advance. In addition to much carnage on the Eastern Front which makes him the Panzer Ace's Panzer Ace. He was killed in action in early August 1944, almost certainly by a Sherman Firefly, either British or Canadian.

Google the guy, he's famous.

Texan...
04-21-2006, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Whos this Wittman bloke? I gathered he's the bees kness of tank combat?

Not really. His gunner brought him much of his noteriety.

This fellow did his country proud. (No I am not gloating/glorifying the soldier kills).

http://www.3ad.org/wwii_heroes/pool_lafayette/pool_lafayette_images/pool.jpg

Lafayette G. Pool was born on July 23, 1919, on a farm in Odem, Texas. He graduated from high school in Taft, Texas in 1938. He attended an all boys Catholic Academy where he graduated as class valedictorian. Afterwards, he enrolled in Texas, A and I College, as an engineering major. He left college to enlist in the Army on June 13, 1941. He took basic training at San Antonio, Texas, and then was sent to Camp Beauregard, Louisiana, to the newly forming 3d Armored Division. He landed with his unit at Normandy in June, 1944. As an M4 "Sherman" Tank Commander in Company I, 3d Battalion, 32d Armored Regiment, he led his crew across France and Belgium and led his Task Force in 21 separate attacks. <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">In 80 days he and his crew destroyed 258 German vehicles, captured 250 German soldiers, and killed an estimated over 1000 German soldiers. In his final battle SSG Pool was blow from the turret of his tank and his right leg was shattered and had to be removed.</span> He was discharged from the Army in June of 1946. He was recalled to active duty in 1948 to serve as an instructor with 3d Armored Division at Fort Knox, Kentucky. He retired from the Army on September 19, 1960 as a Chief Warrant Officer 2d Class. His military decorations included Distinguished Service Cross, Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart, French Croix de Guerre with Bronze Star, Belgium Fourragere. Lafayette Pool passed away in his sleep on May 30, 1991.

NagaSadow84
04-21-2006, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Whos this Wittman bloke? I gathered he's the bees kness of tank combat?

Just the most famous tank ace.

Name / Unit / Tank kills

Kurt Knispel sPzAbt 503 163+ - 200+
Heinrich Rohndorf sPzAbt 503 156+
Johannes B¶lter sPzAbt 502 139 - 144
Michael Wittmann sSSPzAbt 101 138+ - 144
Rolf M¶bius sSSPzAbt 101 100 - 125
Otto Carius sPzAbt 502 125~ - 200-
Hans Sandrock FschPzRgt HG 123
Paul Egger sSSPzAbt 102 113
Fritz Lang StuGAbt 232 113
Albert Kerscher sPzAbt 502 100+ - 150-
Heinz G¤rtner sPzAbt 503 100+ - 103
Karl K¶rner sSSPzAbt 503 100+ - 101+
Balthasar Woll sSSPzAbt 101 100+

ploughman
04-21-2006, 09:42 AM
That Balthasar Woll bloke, wasn't he Wittman's gunner?

NagaSadow84
04-21-2006, 09:49 AM
Yes. But he also commanded his own tank.

jamesdietz
04-21-2006, 10:48 AM
Coming to this thread late ...what is the working title of this sim, who will be producing it & is there any other news about it,besides what is shown on original post???

Jumoschwanz
04-21-2006, 11:12 AM
Not too long ago I drove the P-39 around some maps on the ground and took potshots at various infrastructure. I changed trajectory by stopping the plane at various points as I drove it over small hills and knolls.

It would be easy to put a tank in this sim, or make a tank add-on. All they would have to do is modify an aircraft FM so it had no lift, change the appearance of the interior and exterior. And just like they have bombsights, they could make a sight for a cannon and you would move the turret and gun just like you do now in a gunner position of a plane. They could limit the speed at which you could move the turret and gun to simulate how fast real-life ones could move, of course, and limit rate of fire.

This would kick as s , it would be a blast to drive a tank around a server, and it would be cool to hunt tanks with an IL2 or Stuka that were piloted by real players and not AI. It would give added incentive to do ground attack on online maps if you knew some tanks and artillery were being piloted toward your airstrip or other vital areas by real players.

Jumoschwanz

icrash
04-21-2006, 01:33 PM
Hey, if the tank sim looks that good, I'd buy it. Hey Nagasadow, have you read Panzer Aces 1 & 2? Some of the chaps mentioned in your list are covered. They're a biography of sorts into which first hand accounts are put.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
05-19-2006, 10:41 AM
More pics from the this very promising looking sim project posted by Rainer over at sim hq.

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-05-18/SH_0001.jpg

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-05-18/SH_0002.jpg

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-05-18/SH_0004.jpg

Drool worthy IMO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

Werg78
05-19-2006, 11:23 AM
i was never much interested in tank sims my only experience with one so far was a look at the old panzer elite a friend of mine used to play.

but after tanking alot in ro ostfront i might be interested in a true tank sim. oh and those shots look neat i definatly will check this game out.

jamesdietz
05-19-2006, 12:02 PM
Any news of possible release date???

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
05-19-2006, 12:04 PM
None as yet to the best of my knowledge its still at the alpha stage My guess is you may see it next year if your lucky and by then we should all have nice shiny new systems to play BOB on.

snafu73
05-19-2006, 12:45 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by panther3485:
Hi there, Ploughman

Quote:
"This is from Wikipedia and therefore hardly the last word on the demise of Wittman. The damage to the Tiger's interesting. Shame about Wittman, apart from being in the SS and fighting for the forces of darkness he was clearly the cat's meow when it came to armoured combat."

Try 'Tiger Ace - The Life Story of Panzer Commander Michael Wittman', Gary L. Simpson, Schiffer Military History. First published 1994.

Reading the paragraphs of the appropriate chapter, they deal in detail with the actions on both sides that day and finish thus:

"Trooper Ekins swung his 17pdr main gun onto the nearest Tiger I (Wittmann) and fired one shot that ripped into the right side track pannier of the enemy Tiger I. A great flash and explosion was the direct result and the huge German panzer burst into flames. Suddenly, there was a secondary explosion which resulted in the turret of this vehicle being blown from its superstructure, and hurled about fifty feet behind the machine after the on-board ammunition had ignited.....
.....Within fifty-five minutes of the early afternoon of August 8, 1944, SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer Michael Wittmann, the most famous 'Panzer Ace' of World War II with a total of 138 tank kills to his (and his crew's) credit and 132 anti-tank guns and field pieces destroyed, was killed in action by the 1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry, No. 3 Troop, in and around St. Aignan-de-Cramesnil, where he fought and lost his last panzer battle...."


Epilogue

"Curiously, with his military exploits so extraordinary, people who knew Michael Wittmann said he was not a career soldier and had no taste for war. He was a simple farm reared youth who enlisted as his patriotic duty. Perhaps his exposure to hunting and the daily involvement with powered machinery throughout his childhood, and early adulthood, account for the inherent ease in which he commanded the tools of his military exploits upon the armored battlefield."

panther, I can recommend "A fine night for tanks" by Ken Tout, which gives another account of the battle.

Excerpt:
" In 3 Charlie Firefly, Joe Ekins from Bedfordshire, lined up his sights and, as the Tigers prowled to within 800 yds, Boardman gave the order to fire. At 12.40 hours Ekins' boot trod on the trigger button and the immense flash of the Firefly wrapped itself around the turret. Gordon and Ekins blinked deliberately and then opened their eyes to see the shot strike the enemy turret. Ekins fired again. the Tiger started to burn. Immediately the other two Tigers alerted began feverishly to traverse their 88mm guns towards the Yeomanry. One Tiger fired and Gordon ordered his tank to reverse so that he could find cover from which to resume firing. A third Tiger shot glanced on the turret hatch of the Firefly, doing no material damage but smashing the heavy steel plate against Gordon's head. Gordon staggered out of the tank and was wounded by mortar fire.
Lt James ran to Gordon's tank, guided the driver into a new firing position under the apple trees and gave the fire order. 12.47 hours - one shot from Ekins and the Tiger's turret exploded...

And also another absolute classic by Ken Tout (himself a 1st Northants Yeomanry veteran) is "Tank! 40 hours of battle" which records the authors own experiences of operation Totalize, written in the style of a novel but is based on the authors experiences - an extraordinary book, please try and get a copy!

woofiedog
05-19-2006, 01:12 PM
tHeBaLrOgRoCkS... Thank's for the added screen shots. Very Nice indeed!

Bremspropeller
05-19-2006, 01:19 PM
Seems like this sh1t is gonna be teh FNEB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

ploughman
05-19-2006, 01:21 PM
Totally FNEB.

Xiolablu3
05-20-2006, 03:08 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3711963070632273873



Restored Panther in colour video http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lodovik
05-20-2006, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
It would be easy to put a tank in this sim, or make a tank add-on.

Not wanting to rain on your parade, but it'd take a bit more I think. The collision detection and damage that results from slow speed collisions is weird in this sim engine. The tanks would probably blow up on colliding with a tree at 10 km/h http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
It'd be nice to have drivable tanks in the sim, though.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
05-20-2006, 03:32 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3711963070632273873



Restored Panther in colour video http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for that link some very interesting video in there. Some pretty frightning stuff too, the shot of the tank ammo fire is pretty thought provoking.

Xiolablu3
05-20-2006, 10:34 AM
Thanks Balrog, which video are you talking about? I couldnt see it on my screen?

Can you give a direct link to it please?

I hope we see a few films with that restored panther in. It ruins films for me when you see M60's attacking in the German army or something similar.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
05-20-2006, 06:57 PM
Sorry I took so long Xiolablu3, I got a little side tracked.

Here is the link

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-254540649952704349&pl=true

if you click on 'more from this provider' you will see a whole load of ww2 related videos, gun cams and such

enjoy

Interminate
05-20-2006, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
Bring it on, we're ready...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/advs1024.jpg

ww2 tank sim sounds great. God, those helmets are comic. What dorks.

luftluuver
05-21-2006, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by Interminate:
ww2 tank sim sounds great. God, those helmets are comic. What dorks. Well looking like a wash basin is not as bad as looking like the chamber pot the German's put on their heads. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AKA_TAGERT
05-21-2006, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
Well looking like a wash basin is not as bad as looking like the chamber pot the German's put on their heads. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ROTFL

jamesdietz
05-21-2006, 09:36 AM
This there an actual website for this future sim up & running yet?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
05-21-2006, 09:52 AM
Nohing but a press announcement from the developers stating their intentions to produce it.

best I can offer you is a link where there pr guy seems to be posting mostly.

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....ic;f=11;t=000606;p=1 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000606;p=1)

not due out though till 2007

Interminate
05-21-2006, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Interminate:
ww2 tank sim sounds great. God, those helmets are comic. What dorks. Well looking like a wash basin is not as bad as looking like the chamber pot the German's put on their heads. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't know what a chamber pot is. Or a wash basin.

Actually, I'lltake the practical aspect of protecting ones head from stray bullets as the most important aspect to a helmet.

That said, German helmets also look fantastic. Form and functionality.

hmmm, US helmets are looking rather wehrmachtish these days. Come to think of it English too.

But really, its not just the helmet that makes the dork, Its the dorks in the helmets in the picture.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
05-21-2006, 12:01 PM
'course, ol' Inty knows all about helmets. He needs one when he goes out. Lots of wood******s in his neighbourhood.

luftluuver
05-21-2006, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Interminate:
You don't know what a chamber pot is. Or a wash basin.

Actually, I'lltake the practical aspect of protecting ones head from stray bullets as the most important aspect to a helmet.

That said, German helmets also look fantastic. Form and functionality.

hmmm, US helmets are looking rather wehrmachtish these days. Come to think of it English too.

But really, its not just the helmet that makes the dork, Its the dorks in the helmets in the picture. A chamber pot is a container that is put beside the bed to hold urine and feces that was deposited there during the night. A wash basin is dished container that water was put in to be used to refresh ones self in the morning.

Churchill's chamber pot, http://www.cromwell-intl.com/toilet/pictures/loo-churchill-2.jpg

If 3/8" or 1/2" steel wont stop bullets, a 1/8" thick helmet is sure not able to.

panther3485
05-22-2006, 06:46 AM
Hi there, snafu73

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Thanks for the extract from Ken Tout's 'A Fine Night for Tanks', which I have not read, but seems to mostly agree with my source.

As for Ken's book, 'Tank! 40 Hours of Battle', I've read it. Not bad and I respect the man for his experiences but something about his writing style doesn't gel with me. Just a matter of taste, I suppose, when it comes to authors!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


Thanks again and best regards,
panther3485

Interminate
05-23-2006, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
'course, ol' Inty knows all about helmets. He needs one when he goes out. Lots of wood******s in his neighbourhood.

looks like a wood****** got your grill. Maybe a visor would be in order.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
05-23-2006, 06:51 PM
To shield me from your dazzling wit perhaps? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Interminate
05-23-2006, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
To shield me from your dazzling wit perhaps? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Actually more for my protection.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
05-23-2006, 07:04 PM
Ok Interminate I have seen some of your other posts with in this forum and it is obvious for whatever reason that you have issues with folks of a British disposition.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2101020713/p/1

However I would appreciate it if you keep your trollish tendancies to a minimum within this thread as the purpose of the thread is to be informative and usefull to ALL members of the community.

If you cant take a little friendly ribbing when you dish out a little of your own razor wit then I suggest you just refrain from posting.

Is that fair ?

Regards

BaLrOg

WTE_Galway
05-23-2006, 07:08 PM
slightly off topic but apparently Wittman was quoted as saying tank kills were nothing to get excited about .. it was taking out the infantry support tank hunters and assault guns that was hard.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
05-23-2006, 07:14 PM
Yes I think one thing that is going to be crucial in any tank based simulator is going to be how they implement the infantry and for that matter airforce aspect of land based combat. some of the early screen shots I have seen do at least show infantry will be a factory along with support armour so fingers crossed they will manage to pull of a good working simulation.

I suppose another factor, bear in mind I am no expert on tank warfare, will be numbers of tanks active at one time given that the soviet's relied more on speed, and numbers, quantity rather than quality if you will forgive the analagy.

Still watch wait and see I guess.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
06-12-2006, 04:00 PM
Hmmm more armoured goodness

http://games.iddk.ru/images/extra/T34-2006-05-31-16-01-35-00.jpg

http://games.iddk.ru/images/extra/T34-2006-05-31-16-01-52-57.jpg

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-05-28/SH_0005.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

leitmotiv
06-12-2006, 05:24 PM
From which one did you get the Tiger images above? Fantastic!!!!!! Yes, dealing with AT guns and infantry was far harder than dealing with tanks, but all could ambush kill you no matter how good you were. I don't know how the tank men survived---having written that, I can't wait for a great WWII tank sim. PZ ELITE modded nearly drove me crazy with all its bugs. Deleted. Now bide my time with RED ORCHESTRA. P.S. New Tamiya Char B1 bis great tank model.

jamesdietz
06-12-2006, 05:41 PM
Do you have a link to pics?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
06-12-2006, 05:42 PM
If you liked that then check this

Only a Model? (http://www.mark-1-tank.co.uk/index.html)

I found them on the Simhq site under 'Turret talk' JD a guy going by the name of RAINER posts updates there.

leitmotiv
06-12-2006, 05:49 PM
Great stuff, tHeBaLrOgRoCkS!!!! I have a couple Trumpeter 1:16 scale T-34/76s, but those working models are terrific. Still, I'll be happiest to be crewing in a great virtual tank model like you posted. Cheers!

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
06-12-2006, 05:54 PM
You and me both mate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Lets hope it survives the alpha stage and actualy makes it to the shelves.

Progress thread here (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000606;p=1)

leitmotiv
06-12-2006, 06:00 PM
Here's hoping!

JamesBlonde888
06-12-2006, 07:25 PM
If there was a tank sim then wouldn't driving anything but the King Tiger be rather pointless?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
06-12-2006, 09:16 PM
Are you serious ? Perhaps guilty of having a BLONDE moment?

That is kind of like saying that if they make BoB you would only want to fly the Spitfire or (substitute other percieved uberflugzeug)


Also its the Tiger and T-34 not the King tiger ,of which, iirc only a limited number were available and in too few numbers to have any real significant impact on the war.

If it sells well additions and expansions are hinted at.

I myself would like to see more late war early cold war spg's and tanks added but I am happy that someone is even prepared to have a crack at a tank simulation.

If it is executed well and sells in sufficiant numbers then who knows where it might lead.

Currently the only half way decent dedicated mobile armour sim out there is Steelbeasts PE and that comes with a $125 (u.s) price tag and is limited to current military hardware due to its defense industry market.

LStarosta
06-12-2006, 09:26 PM
I can't wait for the damage modeling in RO to be fixed.

Anybody know if the new RO patch will possibly include the use of PaK guns? I find that the anti-tank soldiers are kind of useless on most maps in RO.

leitmotiv
06-12-2006, 11:47 PM
Yeah, SBEASTS is the maximum solution---unfortunately contemporary ain't my cuppa.

A real armor person wants a T-34/76 Model 1943 and will drive it against a Tiger I with a smile on his face!

Siwarrior
06-13-2006, 02:03 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
Bring it on, we're ready...

oh right its on!!!1!

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~josephkennedy/images/Combat/88mm%20flak.jpg

polak5
06-13-2006, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
I can't wait for the damage modeling in RO to be fixed.

Anybody know if the new RO patch will possibly include the use of PaK guns? I find that the anti-tank soldiers are kind of useless on most maps in RO.

I sure would like to know about the modeling being fixed i got really aggrevated today. Maybe they could take some tips from WW2online they have it right for the most part i think.

Furthermore, this sim that tHeBaLrOgRoCkS brought up to the plate looks delicious.
If done correctly and not TO arcadie I will defenetly buy one or 2! I hope they make it a sim. But i woulnt really care if they make it a little arcadie for future sim fans, aslong as u can switch back and forth like Silent Hunter or Il-2.

Regards, Los!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

woofiedog
06-13-2006, 05:01 AM
Here's a site with a few Video Clip's of Model Tank's in action...

Link: http://www.rctankcombat.com/video/

One more for the Road...

A Javilin Anti-Tank Missile V/S Tank.

Link: http://www.guzer.com/videos/javelin_tank_missle.php

woofiedog
06-13-2006, 05:28 AM
Are your Kid's tired of the same Pony rides at their Birthday Partys...

Here's a little something different that will really keep their attention.

http://www.tanks4hire.co.uk/media/WW1.jpg

Links:
http://www.tanks4hire.co.uk/indextanks.html
http://www.tanks4hire.co.uk/gallery.php

Dtools4fools
06-13-2006, 08:41 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3711963070632273873



Restored Panther in colour video Smile


Ahh, what a day that was. German Army Museum, Koblenz, a few years ago.
Originally it was planned to send this Panther on a full tour around the premises there, buzt due to engine troubles they went fot this little stunt instead. Still very, very impressive standing next to the beast (was on the opposite site from where this vid was shot), loved the sound of the engine.

As for the upcoming tank sim I hope they will get their gun ballistics, armor penetrations and damage models right, otherwise it won't be worth to bother.
What worries me is that in some statement "initial velocity of shot" is taken into account for ballisitics...
I hope each shot is calculated with its ballistic curve, speed, etc, and not only MV of gun...

Only turn off on those screenshots is that some of the parts of the tank in the shade turn almost black. Hope they will improve on those light effects!

*****

Zoom2136
06-13-2006, 10:17 AM
Just want to shoot down fighters/bombers with my main gun.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

jamesdietz
06-13-2006, 06:00 PM
Put a Tiger in yer Tank....
http://www.ingraph.com/Tiger/IG_Tiger.html

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/tigerinyourtank.jpg

Nuff said! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

JamesBlonde888
06-13-2006, 09:13 PM
Also its the Tiger and T-34 not the King tiger ,of which, iirc only a limited number were available and in too few numbers to have any real significant impact on the war.


Well playing on line you are just going to get a lot of Noobs in King Tigers. That is what I was getting at. Personally I think that with realistic air support and tank game would be a little frustrating unless all the battles took place at night.

leitmotiv
06-13-2006, 09:23 PM
I'm still laughing, jamesdietz!

Dtools4fools
06-14-2006, 09:19 AM
Also its the Tiger and T-34 not the King tiger ,of which, iirc only a limited number were available and in too few numbers to have any real significant impact on the war.



Well playing on line you are just going to get a lot of Noobs in King Tigers. That is what I was getting at. Personally I think that with realistic air support and tank game would be a little frustrating unless all the battles took place at night.
Also its the Tiger and T-34 not the King tiger ,of which, iirc only a limited number were available and in too few numbers to have any real significant impact on the war.



Well playing on line you are just going to get a lot of Noobs in King Tigers. That is what I was getting at. Personally I think that with realistic air support and tank game would be a little frustrating unless all the battles took place at night.


>>>>>

They always can limit the numbers of King Tigers on games if they put in some rarity or some "cost" for the tanks.
Then players will be surprised if their lone Kingtiger gets attacked by 5 T-34/85's using cover to get to the flanks and at close range...and the slow and heavy beast not being able to retreat fast enough...

If air support is realistic -and antiaircraft of course, there will be very few tanks getting destroyed by aircraft...
Tank kill CLAIMS by aircraft were very, very much higher than the actual kills...
****

I_KG100_Prien
06-14-2006, 01:44 PM
Well playing on line you are just going to get a lot of Noobs in King Tigers. That is what I was getting at. Personally I think that with realistic air support and tank game would be a little frustrating unless all the battles took place at night.

Not really. If servers were able to limit tank numbers this won't be too much of a problem

Guess you've never played WW2 Online (Battleground Europe as they call it now). The Tiger tank becomes available later in each campaign map, but in small numbers. It's a helluva ride fight in, and to fight against, however just as in real life.. By no means unbeatable.

Aircraft are a threat, however to the smart tank commander they are negligable. Proper use of concealment and situational awareness keep the happy tank alive.

Anti-tank guns are a much more evil threat because often times you don't know they are there until you've been knocked out by one. I recall one sortie I had in a Tiger while playing WW2Online.. 2 hour run where I knocked out many enemy tanks, trucks, ATG's and infantry.. Only to get tracked by a darn ATG that I didn't see when I was headed back to the Forward Base to re-arm.

leitmotiv
06-14-2006, 05:37 PM
Just hit me, jamesdietz, there is one critical flaw in that excellent Tiger gag---the monsters ran on gasoline, not diesel! The Sov tanks ran on diesel---that's why they were less prone to catastrophic engine fires!

jamesdietz
06-14-2006, 06:55 PM
Picky picky...but not a bad point...but er...weren't there quite a few M-4 Shermanski's lent to the Russian Army & it seems to me they did run on good ol' flammable gas-o-line?

leitmotiv
06-14-2006, 07:21 PM
They got the Shermanskis with truck diesel engines---my Sherman book is "on loan"---they were M4A2s, I believe. Gag was terrific---didn't hit me 'til today the Tigs were gas hogs---probably got better mileage than Ford Explorers!

Kocur_
06-15-2006, 01:38 AM
On M4 in Soviet service by commander of one of them:
http://www.iremember.ru/tankers/loza/loza1.html
He says interesting things, especially on comparison of Shermans and T-34.

leitmotiv
06-15-2006, 05:32 AM
Quite an excellent interview, Kocur_. For the American view of the Sherman, see DEATH TRAPS by Belton Cooper. He was a maintenance officer in 3rd Armored Div. He, too mentions the problem of high center of gravity---primarily in the context of this causing the Sherman to bog easily.

woofiedog
06-15-2006, 06:38 AM
Kocur_... Extremely Good reading... Thank's for posting.

jamesdietz... Excellent video clip of the Tiger. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
06-22-2006, 10:39 PM
FRESH MEAT http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-06-20/T3485_Driver.jpg


http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-06-20/TanksOnMarsh.jpg

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-06-20/SoldierInVillage.jpg


I will take speed over fire power every time in a GAME, besides its more of a challenge don't you think? I can almost hear the Tiger noobs whine already when I 'track em' in my high speed T-34!

mwuahah crank that turret Hans you cant track me lol

(used to have a whale of a time trying to leg Daishi's in my high speed Scat back in the day http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif )

Anyhow this ones looking better every time Rainer posts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif enjoy !

leitmotiv
06-22-2006, 11:43 PM
Real men take a T-34/76 versus a Tiger!

woofiedog
06-23-2006, 03:43 AM
Nice update! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

A little bit of reading material... http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/Wray/wray.asp#anti

Dtools4fools
06-23-2006, 11:17 AM
crank that turret Hans you cant track me

what crank?

Tiger turret is hydraulic with variable speed and an additional hand crank for fine adjustement and one for elevation. Experienced gunners were able to lay gun on target without using hand crank, food pedals only.


Real men take a T-34/76 versus a Tiger!

Real man close in fast - or die fast...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

*****

Hashmark13
06-23-2006, 12:25 PM
I need this sim!

and a new computer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

leitmotiv
06-23-2006, 03:16 PM
Can't wait. This fall/winter promises to be an embarassment of riches air/ground-wise.

Dtools4fools
06-24-2006, 10:17 AM
Looking forward to a good tank sim as well; just hope they get things right. There is so much more in it than just having a good gun/armor penetration system.
Like visibility from closed up tanks, manouverability (only few WWII tanks could actually turn on spot), gunsights quality, two man turrets, cramped interiors, ROF, communication between tanks, etc, etc...

****

HotelBushranger
07-01-2006, 08:27 AM
Just something to get the blood flowin boys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.sigx.net/russr/ww2-footage/panther-03.avi

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Kurfurst__
07-01-2006, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Interminate:
ww2 tank sim sounds great. God, those helmets are comic. What dorks.

Well looking like a wash basin is not as bad as looking like the chamber pot the German's put on their heads. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trouble is the that funny thing on Brit and CW soldiers was a bit outdated, it didn't protected the sides of the head, just the top of it - against schrapnels, since all these steel helmets trace back to WW1 to around 1916, where protection was sought for soldiers in trenches against schrapnel, falling rocks and debris. For this, the wash basin worked. In WW2, it was indeed more of a funny wear rather than practical.

Curiously though every combatant, when it come to the need, look back the last time they developed steel helmets for protection to take idea - medieval times. The Brits obviously looked at the 'steel hats' that was used by the poorer urban militias, archers and such, to protect against arrows.

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/ah-6311.JPG

The Germans took a look at the so called Salade helmets, popular in 15th century knights...

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/ah-3822-d.jpg

...and the French :

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/helms/15th_century-renaissance_helms/ah-3819.jpg

joeap
07-01-2006, 09:44 AM
Wow that is cool Kurfy...good thing the Russians didn't use the same inspiration for their WWII helmets.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Korin42.jpg

Alexander Nevsky BTW.

PLANEMAD
07-01-2006, 02:32 PM
hi! thanks for the tank link http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gifit is about time we had good tank sim with 3d interiors.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-01-2006, 07:35 PM
More Banana's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Rainer is doing a great job over at the sim hq forums keeping folks up to date with the eye candy here we have a few more images of slaverable quality http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-09-30/tvst_004_bw.png

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-10-02/SH_0009_1.jpg

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-10-02/SH_0010_1.jpg

more here and discuss at simhq (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000606;p=12)

leitmotiv
10-02-2006, 12:03 AM
I want this as much as I want BOB.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-10-2006, 03:31 PM
And in the Blue corner we have ....

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-10-08/tiger_river.jpg

leitmotiv
10-10-2006, 07:43 PM
Oh arrrggggggghhhh---

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-12-2006, 03:08 PM
http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-10-12/TigerInVillageF.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Monty_Thrud
10-12-2006, 03:34 PM
Slightly unfair don't ya think...hmm...a shed against a Tiger tank...OOOO-KAY!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//beatup.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif..http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//2006-02-23_012924_pilot11.gif ..http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Soviet Fighter Tactics (http://luthier.stormloader.com/home.html) Merlin (http://www.spitfire.dk/Chapter5.htm) The Doors (http://www.thedoors.com/index.cfm?fa=home1)
DA! (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/index.htm)
WWII Links (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/index.htm)

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-12-2006, 10:27 PM
that sheds made from delta wood be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bewolf
10-13-2006, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
that sheds made from delta wood be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

LOL!!!

That seriously made my morning http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Bewolf

Never discuss with stupid people.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Irish_Rogues
10-13-2006, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
Slightly unfair don't ya think...hmm...a shed against a Tiger tank...OOOO-KAY!

Ahhh, you can't see the IL-2 that is clearly just behind that tree line. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

This is looking quite good and hope it plays as well.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

~

"You are stuck on stupid. I?m not going to answer that question." - Lt. Gen. Russel Honore

Wtornado_439th
10-13-2006, 08:24 AM
I am just over whelmed..choke choke http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

A tank driver http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

I was so happy when I bought ''Tank Commander''
many years ago..but this...(lump in throat)

Please let this game see the light of day.

I want to drive my T-34/85 into Berlin
and blow everything up real good.

bazzaah2
10-13-2006, 08:38 AM
looks great and I really hope it makes it to the shelves.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Normally Spiny Norman was wont to be about
twelve feet from snout to tail, but when Dinsdale was depressed Norman could be
anything up to eight hundred yards long.

EAF19_Aceman
10-13-2006, 08:40 AM
So do i, being a tank crewman in real life i cant wait for it<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k61/DanCarey/mustangsigpic.jpg

jamesdietz
10-13-2006, 08:50 AM
Two questions :1.) Where are the new Tiger shots being posted?
2.) Is there a website dedicated to this upcoming sim yet?Who's developing it & is there an expected release date ( & don't tell me "two weeks!")?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

" God Help me , I love the smell of Computer wiring smoking in the morning!"
http://members.cox.net/doolittle80/DietzPilotSigBlockCropped.gif http://members.cox.net/fliegeroffizier/StukaPilot2.gif

Hoarmurath
10-13-2006, 11:04 AM
all the infos about this new sim here :

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb...._topic;f=11;t=000606 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000606)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sigus.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-13-2006, 11:22 AM
Cheers Hoarmurath

And all credit for the screen shots goes to Rainer who is the origional poster at sim hq. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I to hope and pray this one makes it to the shelves.

some more screenies here (http://games.iddk.ru/en/?pg=gm39)

Some of you may even find this thread interesting

More metal mayhem ? (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000631)

Again

All Kudos to Rainer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

woofiedog
10-14-2006, 01:37 AM
Rare Photos of Bagration Operation (Byelorussia 1944)

http://www.wargaming.net/tanks/Photos/page_2/42.jpg
Just a few hits on this tank. LoL

Links:
http://www.wargaming.net/tanks/Photos/photos.htm
http://www.wargaming.net/tanks/Photos/page_2/photos_2.htm

http://www.wargaming.net/tanks/index.htm<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/WOOFIEDOG.jpg

Hunter 82's PC component shop
http://www.magnum-pc.com/
https://usm.channelonline.com/magnumpc/storesite/Search/External/

leitmotiv
10-14-2006, 02:51 AM
I thought this item was definite for the new year. I'll buy it in a heartbeat. Want this as much as I want Oleg's BOB. Hope they eventually go back to Kursk and 1941---love those early Sov two-man T-34 turrets. Commanding a Tiger I in 1943 is like being king of the world. This, BOB, the WWI flight sims, PT Boats, USN fleet subs, and, maybe, WWI German subs---2007 may be a BIG year!

woofiedog
10-24-2006, 08:22 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Pretty Good... cut away of the Tiger.

http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/panzers/3_ktiger/ktiger_cut_color.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/WOOFIEDOG.jpg

Hunter 82's PC component shop
http://www.magnum-pc.com/
https://usm.channelonline.com/magnumpc/storesite/Search/External/

josephs1959
10-24-2006, 09:02 PM
Ever since Il-2 came out I've been looking for a 'comparable' WII Tank simulation. Where I could operate a WII tank in famous WWII battles, on-line / off-line but from what I've seen and bought what's out there doesn't compare, grafics/scale ect. ect. If someone knows of some comparable tank simulations out there please keep me informed.Tanks,,,, I mean thanks.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-25-2006, 05:38 AM
Thats a nice cut out there Woofie http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Gives a good impression of how porked you are when the merd merges with the prop.

some of you may be interested in this one also ?

Another tank based game (http://www.dtf.ru/project/gallery.php?id=804&DTFSESSID=cb17ee49012bd71c848e7dc360d6913b)

As to existing tank based sims, they are pretty thin on the ground Steelbeasts1 is out there if your into a little retro gaming but its leopard and Abrahms focused and not ww2.

Some of the guys on this thread recomend Panzer Elite although I havent played this one and again its an OLD title.

The only up to date tank sim out there that is currently on the virtual shelves is SteelbeastsPE but that comes with a large price tag and again is modern armour orientated.

Your best bet is to check out Turret Talk at the simhq forums.

I think though that as processing power and graphics are on the performance increase there is a good chance that over the next couple of years we will see an increase in heavey armour based sims.

Fingers crossed anyway.

Blutarski2004
10-25-2006, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Interminate:
ww2 tank sim sounds great. God, those helmets are comic. What dorks.

Well looking like a wash basin is not as bad as looking like the chamber pot the German's put on their heads. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trouble is the that funny thing on Brit and CW soldiers was a bit outdated, it didn't protected the sides of the head, just the top of it - against schrapnels, since all these steel helmets trace back to WW1 to around 1916, where protection was sought for soldiers in trenches against schrapnel, falling rocks and debris. For this, the wash basin worked. In WW2, it was indeed more of a funny wear rather than practical.

Curiously though every combatant, when it come to the need, look back the last time they developed steel helmets for protection to take idea - medieval times. The Brits obviously looked at the 'steel hats' that was used by the poorer urban militias, archers and such, to protect against arrows.

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/ah-6311.JPG

The Germans took a look at the so called Salade helmets, popular in 15th century knights...

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/ah-3822-d.jpg

...and the French :

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/helms/15th_century-renaissance_helms/ah-3819.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



..... Yes. In fact, the first attempt to mass manufacture helmets were unsuccessful due to problems obtaining decent quality from the presses. The government actually consulted the curator of the Arms & Armor collection at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York for advice as to how the original medieval and rennaissance craftsmen fashioned their helmets.

I don't disagree that the British helmet design was oriented to protection from shrapnel, which was still "in fashion" during the first years of WW1 on the Western Front. But it was the unexpectedly high incidence of dangerous and highly lethal head wounds in general which convinced all warring parties that protective helmets were necessary on the modern battlefield.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

BLUTARSKI

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
12-13-2006, 10:33 AM
Some new drool worthy material posted by Rainer over at simhq

Click Me (http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-12-12/)

Looks better and better and from what I have read the tanks have working cockpits (although no close up shots yet available)

Anyhoo good stuff for those that care http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Thanatos833
12-13-2006, 12:59 PM
Ahhh, just thinking about crushing things with a King Tiger gives me goosebumps.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9285/do17in9.jpg

The Dornier Do-17, another brilliant example of German engineering, a ?Schnellbomber" which could just outrun all fighters, this plane led to the German victory in the Battle of Britain and indeed, the Second World War.

Zoom2136
12-13-2006, 01:52 PM
For your information guys.... OLEG indicated that if he finds publisher support (UBI) he will expand the BoB series to include AIR, LAND and SEA units (player controled that is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif). This would be in a version of BoB that would be PAY PER PLAY or MONTHLY FEE...

As OLEG stated... the BoB engine will have no problem supporting this... it is just a matter of demand for such a product...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

"http://www.oacsquad.com/images/sigs/zoom.gif "

woofiedog
12-21-2006, 03:11 PM
So your thinking about that Mouth Watering Christmas Turkey... a bit more to help out with the Appetite! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.simhq.com/_land2/images/land_072a_001.jpg

http://www.simhq.com/_land2/images/land_072a_003.jpg

Link: http://www.simhq.com/_land2/land_072a.html#top<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/WOOFIEDOG.jpg

Hunter 82's PC component shop
http://www.magnum-pc.com/
https://usm.channelonline.com/magnumpc/storesite/Search/External/

leitmotiv
12-21-2006, 05:00 PM
ARGH!

BillyTheKid_22
12-21-2006, 05:43 PM
http://i12.ebayimg.com/04/i/07/ce/6f/53_1.JPG


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://members.cox.net/bkid/pacificfighters/p39.jpg

.................................................. ..............

"All I got was a bellyful of English Channel."

LStarosta
12-21-2006, 05:51 PM
http://history.sandiego.edu/cdr2/WW2Pics2/82904a.jpg

Tiger http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

_____________________________

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1872/fe4ae1e074f2ea8e1878fa1kn2.gif (http://irwinnotguaranteed.ytmnd.com/)

leitmotiv
12-21-2006, 09:58 PM
Fortunately, the sim is on the E Front---no carpet bombing by 1000 8th AF heavies---just a gazillion T-34s coming over the hill with a gazillion tank riders.

woofiedog
01-20-2007, 02:55 AM
A site about German Markings during WWII. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Main Page... Link: http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/WOOFIEDOG.jpg

Hunter 82's PC component shop
http://www.magnum-pc.com/
https://usm.channelonline.com/magnumpc/storesite/Search/External/

NagaSadow84
01-20-2007, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
http://history.sandiego.edu/cdr2/WW2Pics2/82904a.jpg

Tiger http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

That's actually a Panther. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif