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K1ngthepug
03-29-2018, 10:20 AM
So recently it’s been very hard to ignore (for Xbox players) sea of thieves. This game went from “the best game ever” to “extremely devisive” in a matter of a week. Mainly due to there being little to no objective.
I for one think sea of thieves is a lot of fun. I find that no mission structure is never an issue and even in ten years I will likely stop back in the sea of thieves (servers permitting)

Now sea of thieves is (on a different scale regarding map and server size) very similar to what I imagine BGE2 to be like.
So I’m wandering can Ubisoft hit that balance? Draw me in with a nice story and world building interactions but keep me for the fun of exploration and self discovery.

I believe yes, I have also been playing far cry 5 since release and have noticed how nothing is forcing my hand.
Falls end was recommended but by no means necessary and due to this I have found that nothing is pointless, no discovery is meaningless and no direction is truly directionless. Everything adds to the greater goal and therefore everything feels worthwhile.
Ubisoft are the king of open world games and recently I feel that those worlds have been filled with rich content and meaningful missions (ACO/far cry 5)
I hope they keep learning and building leading up to BGE2.

While we’re on the subject of ACO can I just say, in my opinion, by the time the final expansion came out hitting the level cap feels like way to much of a grind (to the point where I’ve yet to complete the final expansion)
Maybe a progression system similar to far cry 5 or even AC syndicate would suit me better in my space adventures.

What do you guys think?
As always I’m ready to be shot off into space.

Legion-495
03-29-2018, 10:45 AM
Honestly I think BGE2 shall have a mission structure like Witcher3.
So it lures you around the world if you want.

AC:O is very similar to that, but I am not into that ancient times^^ I want to have a effect on the mission and not only get one to do it. And that is where dialog would be important for me.
Then it becomes more than a simple mission. You have the feel of making a impact with your character and maybe that would also redeem in the long run. With dialog options RPGs get a lot of depth to the point where you can get very attached just to a sidequest and its characters.

I have to say that is what Witcher3 nailed down like almost no other RPG.

K1ngthepug
03-29-2018, 10:55 AM
I love games that have choice-consequence structure that can effect the whole world. I heard an original plan for GTA5 was to have world changing effects even when it came to killing random NPCs (a house would go up for sale if you killed a civilian and he owned it etc)
I guess in the end this didn’t happen but it lends itself to interesting mechanics.

For instance if you want to play as a crazy psycho killin everyone in your path the world (or universe) would then be more on edge as a whole.
Something like that could make every decision feel impactful, but I think it would need to be something more than a basic karma system. I think karma systems as a whole have been played out a little too much.

Legion-495
03-29-2018, 10:58 AM
I love games that have choice-consequence structure that can effect the whole world. I heard an original plan for GTA5 was to have world changing effects even when it came to killing random NPCs (a house would go up for sale if you killed a civilian and he owned it etc)
I guess in the end this didn’t happen but it lends itself to interesting mechanics.

For instance if you want to play as a crazy psycho killin everyone in your path the world (or universe) would then be more on edge as a whole.
Something like that could make every decision feel impactful, but I think it would need to be something more than a basic karma system. I think karma systems as a whole have been played out a little too much.

Indeed Karma systems have been applied in the past and if they have been made it was very static. The question is how could you use such a system so that it actually feels logical.
NPC based Karma? I honestly do not know. I hope the devs got ideas xD

K1ngthepug
03-29-2018, 11:02 AM
A reputation system that goes, dare I say it, beyond good and evil.

Not simply good and bad actions effecting your reputation but a whole plethora of actions reactions and consequences.

Legion-495
03-29-2018, 07:21 PM
Greyscale reputation xD
Nah seriously that would be fine by me.

DevilmanSinner
03-30-2018, 01:47 AM
Dishonored (1) had a really good implementation of socio-systemic effects. Killing led to a dirtier, more infected city; open violence led to more patrols and surveillance; neither of those was necessarily linked to one another, which was a really important feature. Perhaps this is something to consider in creating a reputation and karma system that is indeed *puts on sunglasses* beyond good and evil.

Folezicle
04-03-2018, 10:25 AM
Both No Mans Sky and Sea of Thieves had no story, no real background. The environments look amazing in Sea of Thieves, but for now there is no history behind it. The other thing Sea of Thieves could of done better is assign unique creatures to certain islands.

I really think Beyond Good and Evil 2 is a different type of game. The fact that it seems to be story driven (with lots of smaller stories) is a huge factor.

I imagine that most crucial characters in Beyond Good and Evil 2 will move and interact with the environment. I'm no legendary pirate (so it may differ). But no one leaves their post in Sea of Thieves, so you don't see NPCs wondering around island doing stuff, which kind of loses an islands charm for me. I doubt that will be the case in the cities (then Ubisoft reveals citizens have a 24 hour curfew on all planets).

That being said if BGE2 is to come out as bare-boned as SoT, simply let your audience know that it is still in its early stages. Although really you should put out a game that is properly fleshed out anyway especially if it sold at full-price. Plus not every gamer is going to know that a game is still in early access.

Legion-495
04-03-2018, 01:34 PM
Both No Mans Sky and Sea of Thieves had no story, no real background. The environments look amazing in Sea of Thieves, but for now there is no history behind it. The other thing Sea of Thieves could of done better is assign unique creatures to certain islands.

I really think Beyond Good and Evil 2 is a different type of game. The fact that it seems to be story driven (with lots of smaller stories) is a huge factor.

I imagine that most crucial characters in Beyond Good and Evil 2 will move and interact with the environment. I'm no legendary pirate (so it may differ). But no one leaves their post in Sea of Thieves, so you don't see NPCs wondering around island doing stuff, which kind of loses an islands charm for me. I doubt that will be the case in the cities (then Ubisoft reveals citizens have a 24 hour curfew on all planets).

That being said if BGE2 is to come out as bare-boned as SoT, simply let your audience know that it is still in its early stages. Although really you should put out a game that is properly fleshed out anyway especially if it sold at full-price. Plus not every gamer is going to know that a game is still in early access.

I agree here. Sea of Thieves despite having it not played I am aware it lacks a lot in the content department.
Sea of Thieves is in my eyes a great working base for a game. The price is quite extreme for that. But I have to say they made good looking water^^

I think BGE2 engine preview is quite similar to Sea of Thieves. We got the ships and spacetravel. Now throw in some enemies and you got basically Sea of Thieves in space. Obviously we want more.
Sea of Thieves is once again a game that had a way to big PR push similar to No Mans Sky.

As it stands there is no reason to pay the current price for Sea of Thieves nor No Mans Sky. I think Sea of Thieves will get better judgement based on the Multiplayer aspect, but decisions like the respawning without penalty etc. make Sea of Thieves even at that section a bad game. Maybe things will change but that is the current game.

devilmeetsvamp
04-03-2018, 08:17 PM
I agree. I saw the footage of Far Cry 5 and didn't find the missions interesting nor the characters. It's just there. Here's the game, characters, cool weapons, some cool internet memes to add, now you play "how you want to." Let's not even go to Sea of thieves.
Same happened to me with Curse of the pharos. I was excited to see some new environment and giant scorpions from the "previews" but turns out it was the same grinding, capturing bases again and i stopped before the last two main missions. Meanwhile i picked up Witcher 3 again to give it another shot and just to compare it with the AC:O, and i completed the game and the DLCs in the next 7 days.
A very important aspect of the game is Immersion and witcher 3 nails at it. I din't want to leave the world because everything in this game was meaninful and your actions had meaninful consequences. Even the small things where Geralt shrugs his shoulder or shakes his head at some of your decisions just shows the amount of depth and dedication the witcher team has done.
I just don't want BGE2 to be an another Ubisoft product.

Legion-495
04-04-2018, 07:42 PM
I agree. I saw the footage of Far Cry 5 and didn't find the missions interesting nor the characters. It's just there. Here's the game, characters, cool weapons, some cool internet memes to add, now you play "how you want to." Let's not even go to Sea of thieves.
Same happened to me with Curse of the pharos. I was excited to see some new environment and giant scorpions from the "previews" but turns out it was the same grinding, capturing bases again and i stopped before the last two main missions. Meanwhile i picked up Witcher 3 again to give it another shot and just to compare it with the AC:O, and i completed the game and the DLCs in the next 7 days.
A very important aspect of the game is Immersion and witcher 3 nails at it. I din't want to leave the world because everything in this game was meaninful and your actions had meaninful consequences. Even the small things where Geralt shrugs his shoulder or shakes his head at some of your decisions just shows the amount of depth and dedication the witcher team has done.
I just don't want BGE2 to be an another Ubisoft product.

I know what you mean.
I do not think it would be wise to focus much on Ubisofts games for development internally.
I think we and the devs know how blown up the expections are. And after all BGE is also a Ubisoft game ;)

Hmm I think Michel really got his ideas here... yes I bring it up everytime.
Since Beyond Good and Evil Michel Ancel wasn't very big into big development it seems...(well if we consider BGE a big development^^)
We all probably know there have been inner workings around BGE most of this time, because the 2008 thing didn't come out of nowhere.
Honestly I have trust in Ancel I mean this dude got his own Studio too^^ Wild Sheep Studio (http://wildsheepstudio.com/)
I think he knows how to handle stuff. Also I want to wait for Rayman 4 too xD

I was very surprised to know that he seems to work on BGE2 and WiLD (http://wildsheepstudio.com/wild-3/) at the same time.
Also very recently I noticed he had involvement into the making of UBIArt Framework and that has been used for Valiant Hearts which is another game I like. If Michel would have had it his way (https://www.mcvuk.com/development/ancel-wants-ubiart-tech-to-be-free-for-all) it would probably be open source xD

devilmeetsvamp
04-05-2018, 08:29 AM
Yes. Michel Ancel is who i have faith in. I read a lot of his interviews and saw Wild preview and Rayman playthrough. It's the Ubisoft tag that worries us all.

Legion-495
04-05-2018, 12:19 PM
Yes. Michel Ancel is who i have faith in. I read a lot of his interviews and saw Wild preview and Rayman playthrough. It's the Ubisoft tag that worries us all.

I think he got no limits in this case... I would say Ubisoft is able to take the risks here (financial) and that is the point.

Ganet2
04-05-2018, 06:08 PM
Able but companies that are able have consistently showed they aren't willing. I do hope you're right though in this case. I'm hoping to see better not just adequately better than others.

Legion-495
04-06-2018, 02:40 PM
Able but companies that are able have consistently showed they aren't willing. I do hope you're right though in this case. I'm hoping to see better not just adequately better than others.

Havn't seen any issues with Michels games.
Also the VR games seem to be super okay. To me Ubisoft is a company that indeed had many steps in the wrong direction, but they are willing to fix this unlike EA.
Also they develop new IPs every year which is unlike some other publishers taking risks here.
And very recently Ubisoft was able to move out of the grasp of Vivendi which what I think was a very strong reason to try to get as much cash as possible for buyback.
After all Ubisoft is a company that wants to make profit^^

As far as BGE2 goes I think that the goals are very "steep" set for this game. They sure know this and the pressure from us has to be super high. On top of that I would see the Studios of Ubisoft seperated too. And we have to keep in mind that some game series probably have very hard deadlines. So I am not surprised if we have technical failures from any company for that matter. I totally get what the issues are you see.
But from all the publishers out there I think Ubisoft is one that is being able to stay away from stupid tactics for the moment^^ Also their "minigame" section like Grow Home/UP to stuff like Valiant Hearts is great.

And I have to make clear. We are here and have the eyeballs looking at that very thing! Judgement will be mercyless!
But in general I have trust here because BGE was a comercial failure so seeing another game in this series is a wonder. Such things usually die. I do think Michel Ancel himself will pull all the levers here to make a great game^^ BGE3 needs to happen now xD

Ganet2
04-06-2018, 07:06 PM
I can understand profit I can. It's a business with many employees. It needs to be successful. Also I do believe for the possible buyout they needed to buy back the shares from Vivendi. Publicly traded companies coming to a stalemate because another company has most of it's shares is... well not great. So glad ubisoft got out of that. Wouldn't honestly mind if someone bought out EA. As unlikely as it might seem. Terrible games from EA but ruthless businessmen. Also apparently so ruthless they no longer make sense or care when going to confrences. I feel they might hopefully take a nosedive and become available for a buyout by someone... I digress though... a lot.

I respect Ubisoft for trying new IPs and actually trying new things like... well this. BGE2 seems unlike a lot of their other games in a fair few ways. And yes Michel Ancel's games have all been amazing. I'm just being a skeptic because I've been let down... three times in total in the last couple of years. Likely four or five times actually but not half as badly as by some. I have confidence in Michel and the team. I just don't really put much stock in the suits. And the suits are the ones running the show usually. I hope they have the sense to let the team take the time they need to make possibly a hit game.

I'm not much of one to play VR. Too expensive a buy in for me right now. Would rather just stick to non-VR games myself.

Yeah. I'll put my faith in Ubisoft here. I'm just worried more than anything. Should leave that till something goes bad IF it does. We are the consumer, a merciless swarm or creatures who accept nothing but the best possible outcome. XP

Thanks. Needed to talk about this. I'm glad that a good game is getting some limelight as well in BGE. BGE2 has a bit to live up to from it's predecessor. Especially with all the promises and concepts that have been show. I need to make a request for melee weapons. Heh. To BGE2 being a massive success to gaming. Here's hoping.