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View Full Version : New online pilots, why you are doomed......



Jumoschwanz
08-31-2005, 10:22 AM
This sim has been around for around four years now. Being a user of the Hyperlobby software for that long, and present on other online flight sims before that, I have seen virtual pilots that have by now, have many thousands of hours flying just the IL2 series of sims alone! And usually these pilots specialize in one or two planes.

What this means for you if you are just starting out flying this sim online, is you have to expect to be mercilessly shot down for a year or so until you begin to know what you are doing. If you are really smart you might do better, but don't count on it.

This sim has been under development for years now and it is very good, the best you can get for a home pc. You will pick a plane and army to fly for that is your favourite for this or that reason, and in this favoutite plane of yours, while flying for this great army, you will get your a s s handed to you over and over again for a long, long time.

The unfortunate thing about this, is you will blame everything but yourself. You will blame your planes flight and damage model, the other planes flight and damage models, you will call cheating and bias, and you will think of many more.

This is just like an athlete who always loses and blames his equipment or other conditions for his failure and never looks at his own training isn't it?

Think, if you could go online in your favourite plane, fly around and shoot down two or three others for each time you were shot down you would have no real criticisms would you? Do you think it is up to your plane or something else besides you to achieve this?

Believe me, the top virtual pilots in this sim can go fly around in a two-engine bomber and achieve a two-to-one or three-to-one kill-to-death ratio over fighter planes, without using the AI gunners!

On the He-111 for instance you can go to the forward gunner position, disable it's AI and map the gun to your trigger on your joystick. Then you can fly it around and shoot it like you would a fighter. If you are smart and have the experience you can put it in good position and zoom and boom any single engine fighter and disable it and get away scott-free, the same can be done with the allied bombers.

With good position and smarts you can shoot down jets with a biplane.


So good luck out there. I hope you find a way to have fun while being shot down hundreds of times over and over again for the next year or so. Please save your criticisms of everything outside yourself for a few years in the future when you are successful in your efforts. But by then you will probably also lose the taste to blame, then you will be an ace.

S!

Jumoschwanz

Jumoschwanz
08-31-2005, 10:22 AM
This sim has been around for around four years now. Being a user of the Hyperlobby software for that long, and present on other online flight sims before that, I have seen virtual pilots that have by now, have many thousands of hours flying just the IL2 series of sims alone! And usually these pilots specialize in one or two planes.

What this means for you if you are just starting out flying this sim online, is you have to expect to be mercilessly shot down for a year or so until you begin to know what you are doing. If you are really smart you might do better, but don't count on it.

This sim has been under development for years now and it is very good, the best you can get for a home pc. You will pick a plane and army to fly for that is your favourite for this or that reason, and in this favoutite plane of yours, while flying for this great army, you will get your a s s handed to you over and over again for a long, long time.

The unfortunate thing about this, is you will blame everything but yourself. You will blame your planes flight and damage model, the other planes flight and damage models, you will call cheating and bias, and you will think of many more.

This is just like an athlete who always loses and blames his equipment or other conditions for his failure and never looks at his own training isn't it?

Think, if you could go online in your favourite plane, fly around and shoot down two or three others for each time you were shot down you would have no real criticisms would you? Do you think it is up to your plane or something else besides you to achieve this?

Believe me, the top virtual pilots in this sim can go fly around in a two-engine bomber and achieve a two-to-one or three-to-one kill-to-death ratio over fighter planes, without using the AI gunners!

On the He-111 for instance you can go to the forward gunner position, disable it's AI and map the gun to your trigger on your joystick. Then you can fly it around and shoot it like you would a fighter. If you are smart and have the experience you can put it in good position and zoom and boom any single engine fighter and disable it and get away scott-free, the same can be done with the allied bombers.

With good position and smarts you can shoot down jets with a biplane.


So good luck out there. I hope you find a way to have fun while being shot down hundreds of times over and over again for the next year or so. Please save your criticisms of everything outside yourself for a few years in the future when you are successful in your efforts. But by then you will probably also lose the taste to blame, then you will be an ace.

S!

Jumoschwanz

neural_dream
08-31-2005, 10:29 AM
now that is supposed to be helpful for newcomers? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif I think you scared them all away.

RAF74_Poker
08-31-2005, 12:23 PM
Hristo ??? LOL

Eraser_tr
08-31-2005, 03:17 PM
um...yeah. I'm sorry, but no amount of skill or experience can make shooting down a jet in a biplane a common feat. especially since every biplane but the I-153 with 2X ShVak cannons has nothing but pop guns that just don't have the range nor accuracy even if you're the best deflection shooter online.

I think you do forget the fact that not all players have had so many years of experience. coming across regular players does not make newer pilots doomed.

SeaFireLIV
08-31-2005, 04:10 PM
I actually agree with Jumoschwanz. In my early days with this (about 3 years ago) I knew nothing about fms, etc. I have been slowly taught by Oleg how to fly more realistically by gradually improved fms.

I wonder... what would I have made of 4.01 had I just bought the sim today?

Padser
08-31-2005, 05:05 PM
~S~

Mmm, still a pretty pointless post, though, eh? One assumes the author includes himself in that exclusive elite, too...

New players are always going to struggle when coming into a new sim (I certainly have, even with experience of other combat flight sims). DO you think they don't know that?

What the original poster forgets, however, are the many experienced, knowledgable pilots out there who are more than willing to help, advise and watch the six of new players. Sometimes it even happens in these very forums (shock, horror...)

I have received no end of support from my squad mates in the Fallen Angels since I started in this game and have been welcomed and assisted no end by the other pilots I have flown with in War Clouds and on Zekes vs Wildcats, too. Gentlemen pilots all and thank God there are people of that calibre involved in this game!

I never usually reply to this sort of nonsense, but that smug tone has really ticked me off.

Pads

stathem
08-31-2005, 05:50 PM
I think Jumo, you forget that brand new players (not converts from other sims) very rarely jump straight into full switch servers - well some do but they spend a lot of time looking for the action - or Czech war Co-ops and try to fight the best players. Most would still work their way up through more, well, 'arcade' type servers, probably on the UBI lobbies. Only the most dedicated make it through to full switch and if you do, you know a bit by then. (I speak from experience)

VW-IceFire
08-31-2005, 06:38 PM
Its not really that bad.

Some servers are more forgiving than others. There isn't a massed collective of 100% veteran top notch pilots.

There are in some servers and not in others.

So you work your way up. I did, I started when many were well established and I was totally new at it (and to flight sims in general). You realize your limits and set goals for yourself.

AOD_DieHard_X
08-31-2005, 07:21 PM
I'm brand new to this sim and what was stated has proved true for me, but I expected it as I had the same experiance with Nascar 2003. There is a learning curve to any sim and it get's steeper the older the software is. But, do I blame others for my "Fly and Die" experience in this new (to me) sim? No, as I knew coming in I would spend a lot of time reflecting on how to improve my skills. Sounds like your trying to be encouraging but it does come of a bit cynical. But, thanks for validating my suspicions that my expectations need not be high in the early days of my training. Now, could you validate my parking?

Rjel
08-31-2005, 07:37 PM
I agree with Padser, there are people out there who are very good and are willing to teach too. I was lucky to find a few of those types way back when on Kali when I first ventured online with EAW. I still got shot down more often than not, but I didn't have to suffer the humiliation of trash talking at the same time.

mortoma
08-31-2005, 08:50 PM
I was smart, I flew so much offline first, by the time I finally went online I did not get me A$$ handed to me at all. Quite the contrary, mostly other people did!! No, the AI did not compare to human pilots but at least I was able to learn how to handle most birds well enough and then fine tune and polish from there. I also perfected my gunnery first, not just plane handling.

ElAurens
08-31-2005, 09:37 PM
http://www.taiga.net/reports/traditional_fisheries/catch1.jpg

Capt_Kernel
08-31-2005, 09:40 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gifJumoschwanz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Love that name.........

Jumoschwanz
09-01-2005, 04:11 AM
I just thought if new online pilots went in expecting to have a tough time, they would feel better knowing it is normal to be shot to pieces.
And also they might not be so apt to start blaming the sim for the way things are going.

It is a tough and challenging piece of software for the newcomer, especially when the "realistic" difficulty setting is used.

Yes, the novice is also doomed to have fun, as long as he has a certain attitude.

I just see a lot of posts from folks blaming the sim when things don't immediately go their way. And unfortunately, even some who have been around for a few years blame the sim for their lack of success and happiness, when it is they who have never learned what they are doing in the first place.

As far as difficulty settings for new pilots in this sim goes, I think whatever they are exposed to first is what they tend to stick with. I ended up flying on servers with realistic settings right off the bat simply because out of dumb luck they were the first ones I clicked on. The guys there were nice to me and so I kept going back. It felt like home. And Realistic settings have many advantages to the new pilot, in that they do not have a big arrow and icon attached to their plane for everyone to find them, I bet they last longer on a full-switch server!

Guys that get in with an easy-settings squad or server right off the bat get used to it and seem to stay there. And this is kind of a shame because they never get to experience a lot of the sim-qualities of the IL2 series and just see the more gaming aspects of it. Two different drugs to get hooked on.

S!

Jumoschwanz

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-01-2005, 06:26 AM
With little else to discuss by way of patch-release dates/info, BoB updates etc,... this type of discussion is bound to happen and justifiably so. I don't fully understand the point for the post but DO understand the and appreciate the trolling virtues of it. I also tend to agree...to a point.

There have been so many new pilots online recently (or vets flying under aliases) that this sim has a new face so to speak. Even though this sim and it's engine are a bit long in the tooth, it still has substantial time left in its life expectancy. New pilots can expect the learning curve to be steep, but not insurmountable. The method by which you start your FB experience (preparation, wingmen/squad affiliation, past experience) can certainly flatten the curve, but flying against established, experienced pilots that are on coms and flying in concert will humble even the best pilots.

I've gone from rookie (well, relatively speaking) to established squad member with a reasonable skillset to the equivalent of an instructor returning to the front...cause I'm back. I do ok, but even a month or so away has cost some of the SA that protects my virtual pilot from virtual death.

I still love the 4.01 FM and feel I have a leg up on many for various reasons, but the level of competition on the tough servers is still high (and more likely gotten better).

These days I spend most of my time on gg (of course) and on Z-vs-W (a great full-switch server!). The key is to respect other players, fly towards the objectives and don't forget it's a game. If ANYBODY sees me online, I'll be glad (and thankful) to join on coms and either give or recieve any help possible to make the puter time more fun...yes, fun.

Does that make any sense?

<whew> sleep deprivation can make you ramble incoherintly...eh?


TB

Bearcat99
09-01-2005, 08:08 AM
Actually this post isnt all that bad.... I kind of agree with it... and h@ll.. I have been flying in this series since 2001 and I still get my @ss or what's left of it.. handed to me regularly... sometimes in a thimble..... but I have a lot of fun..... a LOT of fun... each and everytime I go up.. no matter what the outcome.

iroseland
09-01-2005, 09:04 AM
Hey,

I pretty much sort of agree. I have had the full version since December and have been playing on HL since about February. The first three months I spent 100% of my time getting handed and re-handed my butt. Then I stopped getting shot down so fast but was still the 0 kill wonder. These days I can actually get kills, but still get shot down a fair amount. 8^) My skills have increased at a pretty steady pace since I installed the game.
here is my short list of things that have helped.


1. I fly every night, or at least it seems like it.
2. Good joystick made a difference ( x-52 )
3. TrackIR is a must if you are at all serious
4. Pedals made a huge difference
5. TeamSpeak! I have used it since I started flying on HL. I will not fly online without it.
6. I joined a Squadron; it makes a difference I get to regularly fly with the same folks. It takes time for a group to develop cohesion, being in a squadron helps to develop it and maintain it


BSS_AIJO

Akimoto05
09-01-2005, 09:29 AM
Well, if I start with a new game, may it be flight sim or RTS or anything else, and I jump into multiplayer action... I will suck. Fact. If you've only played against AI and all of the sudden you face real people, you will suck in the beginning. Fact.

I think everyone who ever started with a new game online knows that. I don't need a nobel prize winner to figure that out. It's only logic.

Rickshaven
09-01-2005, 10:20 AM
Most "new" pilots to this game are familiar with other flight simulators and online gameing. With many flight sims in the last 10 years out on the market the chances of someone flying this game online or off with no flight sim experience would be quite rare. Allot of the noobs to this game are coming from other flight sims. Myself for example i flew/fly RB3d online for nearing 8 years. This one is a good sim but not rocket science. A good sim and all the rules apply same as RB3d or CF etc. of course the FM is what you need to learn.

neural_dream
09-01-2005, 11:36 AM
i think you are all exaggerating. A lot.

i was completely unfamiliar with anything having to do with flight sims, didn't even know what a mustang is, then played for a year or so il-2 offline, but not very frequently, and since last 2 months i play online (5-7hrs/week). I am definitely not a good pilot, but i have had more kills than deaths right from the first ever day i played. Now i get KIA only once per about 20-30 sorties (several B.O. of course and some crashlandings). I don't get many kills though, 0.3 per sortie maybe. As i said i am not at all a good pilot. I just don't fly low and alone straight towards 5 bandits, which is obviously what you are all implying for the newbies. We are not that stupid http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif
People keep judging the whole world by looking only at themselves. Like the other day that when asked by someone who planned to buy the game most replied by suggesting some ridiculously expensive sticks and insisted there is no way to play online without a good joystick, until someone said that he has a decent (i think) 3 K/D ratio with keyb and mouse, quite for some time now. Now, the thing is getting way worse. A significant part of the community is suggesting that it isn't possible to have any success (implying fun too) in this game without trackir, a good 19inch monitor and all CH products. It's just the best game in a small subcategory of the computer sim games. You don't have to pay 1000 in additional goodies to have fun. I have an AMD 1.9GHz, a mediocre 15inch TFT, an old Evo and recently i installed that utility that improves the use of the hatswitch (can't remember the name) and i have a blast every night. Of course i am already thinking how i will build my inhouse cockpit, when i will buy my cougar and my trackir, plus i bought luftwaffe gloves and helmet from ebay, but all that is of course just for immersion. If you seriously think they make you a better pilot ....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

So stop scaring people away http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

and a small addition:
Because of the nature of the game, in which common sense actually makes sense, Il-2 is not that difficult online for a newbie.
Age of Empires/Age of Mythology/Starcraft/most EA Sports games/Battlefield 2 are much more difficult online. I guess you've never played an RTS against a Korean. Ooh i forgot the most difficult of all, Unreal Tournament. I am sure there are more. Il-2 may be a little difficult for teens due to their complete lack of patience, but nothing special.

reverendkrv1972
09-01-2005, 12:40 PM
yes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

been simming for years,my first online experience was cfs1 & 2 (more 2 than 1)
straight in at '100%' found a dangerous guy,and flew against him at every oppurtunity,weren't long before he started getting a fight out of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

in at the deep end works wonders,it saves picking up nasty habits from easier settings.

Jumo,ur post is right,but it's like anything,untill you get used to it,you will have to spend time doing it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

its all good fun,even going down in flames http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

when i get more time maybe i'll see some of you guys cruising past whilst im in my chute sometime http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'm no Ace,but I have my moments lol.

~S regards,

Rev

Fighterduck
09-01-2005, 12:52 PM
sorry...but i really don't see any problem... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Jumoschwanz
09-01-2005, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iroseland:

here is my short list of things that have helped.


1. I fly every night, or at least it seems like it.
2. Good joystick made a difference ( x-52 )
3. TrackIR is a must if you are at all serious
4. Pedals made a huge difference
5. TeamSpeak! I have used it since I started flying on HL. I will not fly online without it.
6. I joined a Squadron; it makes a difference I get to regularly fly with the same folks. It takes time for a group to develop cohesion, being in a squadron helps to develop it and maintain it


BSS_AIJO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That is a nice list of things to have, but I want the new online pilot to know he can do fine without many expensive toys.
Lots of pilots out there do super manipulating the views with just a hat switch and some buttons or a mouse. And as long as you have a joystick that the handle twists on, so it can work the rudder you are ok too.
I have used trackIR and did not like it, I use the hat-switch and can hold my own with anybody. And I do have CH pedals, but there is no performance advantage to using pedals over a twist-stick, there is just a realism advantage.
I never used coms much at all either, but then I was never on a squad. I never felt I had the time to give to a squad to make it worth joining, I like being footloose and free. There are a lot of lone-wolf pilots online who's stats are as good as anyone out there.
The USB joysticks from Microsoft were some of the best ever made, I have one that is five years old and still works great. They can be found cheaply on ebay now. The best one is the Microsoft precision2 model.


Jumoschwanz