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View Full Version : Why a U-boat again?



marky1984
12-18-2004, 09:49 PM
why is it a uboat again?

im just wondering lol


does anyone know?

marky1984
12-18-2004, 09:49 PM
why is it a uboat again?

im just wondering lol


does anyone know?

one.zero
12-19-2004, 12:37 AM
simply because that's who we are. Perhaps if you like other boats you might look at the mod's such as pacific aces. I'm quite sure that mods for SHIII will cover your area of interest.

I suspect the main reason the SHIII is still a uboat, is to bring the sub sim developement full circle with the maximum level of detail acheivable where shII fell short.

carry on....

Dominicrigg
12-19-2004, 03:26 AM
If you mean what does U-boat stand for?

Then its Untersea boot (Sorry if my german is bad!!) or undersea boat. As they were not real submarines, rather a boat that could dive (shaped like a boat and spent most time on the surface)

If you mean why the german boats in the game its because it was the most exciting and most important use of "undersea boats" in the whole war.

The english mainly used their boats for anti warship-sub attacks. The americans used theirs a lot for special missions (which in a game would mean sailing to a coast and dropping off 3 men and sailing away again... not very exciting ) and japanese again were mainly anti warship/sub.

The germans used their subs much more and had a massive massive amount of merchant traffic to aim for, not to say the atlantic is a much more exciting ocean then the pacific with fierce freezing storms and icebergs ect!! Much more fun all round!

flyingdane
12-19-2004, 09:47 AM
if sh3's sales are anything like we all think
they will be (and they will be!!)it will pave
the way for sh4 pacific theater with us subs,
and will even be a better sim because of the
development curve and learning proscess of the
dev team http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
12-19-2004, 10:56 AM
Surely the question should be: 'Why NOT a U-Boat again?'

Why should it be something else?

Kriegsgewitter
12-19-2004, 11:22 AM
Should have been set in a Nissan Terrano or something.

marky1984
12-19-2004, 11:25 AM
lol


i meant why is SHIII based on a uboat again lol

and thats true, subs in that time were surface ships that could submerge for a bit

they werent true "submarines" until nuke boats

Subsim
12-19-2004, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
If you mean why the german boats in the game its because it was the most exciting and most important use of "undersea boats" in the whole war.

The english mainly used their boats for anti warship-sub attacks. The americans used theirs a lot for special missions (which in a game would mean sailing to a coast and dropping off 3 men and sailing away again... not very exciting ) and japanese again were mainly anti warship/sub.

The germans used their subs much more and had a massive massive amount of merchant traffic to aim for, not to say the atlantic is a much more exciting ocean then the pacific with fierce freezing storms and icebergs ect!! Much more fun all round! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't agree with that, the US sub force was instrumental in defeating Imperial Japan and had great success from the mid to end of the war, once the faulty torpedoes were corrected, whereas the U-boats had success early in the war but by mid-1943, it was a suicide mission. The Americans did a whole lot more than dropping off three men and leaving http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The reason SH3 is U-boats again is because the North American market will buy a U-boat sim where the Germans and much of Europe would not buy a Pacific based subsim.

marky1984
12-19-2004, 11:44 AM
TOTALLY agree with that

tho the us sub force was 2 (TWO) % of the navy, they sank 55 (FIFTY FIVE!!!) % of the ships that were sunk in the PTO during the war

they sanknot only merchants by the DOZENS, but also warchips

at least 2 IJN flattops were sunk by us boats

including the Shinano, the 3rd yamato battleship that never was, when she set out for fitting out in kure i think

1 of the ijn carriers at midway, cant remember which, was finished off by the USS Nautilus

the USN subs SLAUGHTERED japans shipping, severing her supply lines, sinking her ships, and causing general pain and suffering for the evil jap empire http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Year United States Japan
1939 376,419 320,466
1940 528,697 293,612
1941 1,031,974 210,373
1942 5,479,766 260,059
1943 11,448,360 769,085
1944 9,288,156 1,699,203
1945 5,839,858 599,563

Total 33,993,230 4,152,361

thats the amount of tonnage of merchants oput into the water in the war years

the losses inflicted by the sub force was compounded by the fact that the ijn didnt dedicate many ships to ASW roles

they didnt think it was "fitting" of a glorious warship..... IDIOTS loool!

and they didnt put many destroyers or escorts into the water either!


for more info...

http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm


very good site

Hitman_PAces
12-19-2004, 12:03 PM
Yes, the market is the market http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Given the costs of developing the engine and all stuff, the companies aim first for the larger market and then, they squeeze ven more from their investiment by doing with less effort & cost expansions or variants for other, smaller, markets

There's the example of IL2, now moved to the Pacific. I sincerely hope we see somewhen a new SH sim in the Pacific http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif, based on the new SH3.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The americans used theirs a lot for special missions (which in a game would mean sailing to a coast and dropping off 3 men and sailing away again... not very exciting ) and japanese again were mainly anti warship/sub.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, correct, but their main task was war against the commercial traffic ( Though not initially in the war, as the pre-war subs would be used according to the high-command of that years in operations against warships, and there was some time needed to understand the importance of the new doctrine ).

The fact is that US subs fought a battle that was very similar to the one the germans faced, but they won it due to other circunstances.

US subs were different to U-Boots ( They were planned for very different purposes ), but their inferior performance in certain aspects was compensated by the also poor performance of the japanese escorts. By the time the germans were already passing their "happy times", the allies had already started building massive amounts of escorts. Japan instead nearly built nothig new during the war, despite the losses.

Air cover was possible for the allies in big areas, but Japan had not always ways of doing it in the vast reaches of the Pacific ( They did also not show much interest, either ).

Belive me, in all, the war in the Pacific was on a certain point as balanced as the one in the Atlantic. The main difference is that for germans the curve went down, while for americans it went up. But a sim based on US subs would also be very satisfactory in terms of gameplay, and yes, you already said it, the US subs participated in much more varied roles than germans, which is also good.

Farside498
12-19-2004, 12:05 PM
wasn't it officially said that it was because the battle in the atlantic ran the longest and uboat had newly developed technology to hand or something?

RHYLASS
12-19-2004, 12:09 PM
Well, in the Atlantic (WW2), the most challenging U-Boat war of all times was fought.



German submarines dove deeper, had the most dangerous patrol areas, traveled huge distances compared the the boat size and had the best boats of its time.
Reasons enough?


Dietger

flyingdane
12-19-2004, 12:09 PM
''I AGREE''
the u.s. pacific sub campain was a huge sucsses
by any one's standard,but both were exciting and
action packed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

blue_76
12-19-2004, 12:28 PM
you must first take into consideration the casualties of war to understand the challenge.. its simply more challenging to command a uboat in the atlantic than command a US submarine in the Pacific.. 40,000 men were sent out in uboats and 10,000 returned.. u have to ask yourself, can i suvive the war given those odds? would u rather have a game that challenges you to that extent? or would u rather enjoy an easy game? those two questions would probably be the answer to why a uboat.. personally, I'd rather command a uboat with a target rich environment such as the Atlantic and go against the odds and try to survive the war.. that challenge would make the sim more valuable to me.

Dominicrigg
12-19-2004, 12:40 PM
Yes apologies im wrong, i got mixed up with some other sub arm, maybe its the english in the pacific, or the australians... One of them just did special missions mainly.

The americans relied mainly on their subs caus the navy got wiped out at anchor!!

Doh... bad memory by me :/

That said the atlantic is more interesting all round for the reasons mentioned by people above. They faced a tougher foe also.

It cant have anything to do with the market as actually the american market is massive, so if they were cashing in they would just go for something pro american rather then european.

Farside498
12-19-2004, 06:07 PM
ah here we go

Quoted from the FAQ on the Homepage

Q: "Why German side again?"

A:"Because the German U-Boat campaign offers the largest submarine warfare background, the most impressive technological advances in the field and covers the widest geographical area."

HeibgesU999
12-19-2004, 11:22 PM
since the us fleet boats have the surface search and air search radars fairly early on in their participation in the war, I must admit that the uboat sims are much more challenging.

but sh1 is a fantastic game. i had initially thought it was mearly an update of silent service, which I played on my ibm PC back in like 87.

for some reason sh2 tried to reinvent the wheel.

bertgang
12-21-2004, 08:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Subsim:
The reason SH3 is U-boats again is because the North American market will buy a U-boat sim where the Germans and much of Europe would not buy a Pacific based subsim. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a perfect answer!
Atlantic battle seems interesting for everybody;
Pacific battle, maybe, has less customers.
I'd like to play US submarines too, but I have to admit that german ones are my first choice.

Capt.LoneRanger
12-21-2004, 08:49 AM
The mission of the US submarines was quite different from that of the German subs. While in Germany the main objective of the sub-fleet was to seek and destroy any allied ships, the submarines in the Pacific were primarily used as part of fleet operations, hunting specific ships or local supply-lines to assist in a major attack, protection of convoys or reconnaissance.
To do a subsim in the pacific theater would mean a lot more involvement of other elements.

Another reason, as it was allready stated: The Germans and the Allies did a technological war. Better analsysis of streamlined ships, weaponry and sensors lead to upgrades every few month.
The US-submarines in the Pacific didn't meet such a strong opposition and didn't get as much upgrades and technological toys as the German subs did.

Pr0metheus 1962
12-21-2004, 09:06 AM
Why are we only talking about US subs in the Pacific as if that's our only alternative? I'd like a Japanese Pacific sub sim. I'd also play a WW1 U-Boat sim. Surely we're not to be limited to either the German U-Boat experience in WW2 or the US sub experience in WW2. There were lots of other nations and many other wars where subs were used.