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View Full Version : Your Thoughts about the Berserker.



Baturai
03-18-2018, 11:13 AM
I am having incredible hard times fighting Berserkers with my Orochi is it becuase of Assassin armor i have ? or am i the only one that thinks parrying this hero is nearly Impossible ? Deflect isnt an option either. His infinite COmbo is dealing much more damage while i perform a deflect.
Remove stupid Tracks he has. it looks like he can track spin and combo you to the worlds End.
Zone is way too safe and deals tons of damage.
His Deflect is the Safest. free gb :rolleyes: what else ?
+ why the hell does he have hyperarmor so early ? even kensei has it on 3. Move as a Vanguard why the hell does he have it so early without any consequences ?
i have easier times fighting shaman Pks and Glads but Berserker is beyond op in my opinion. not only Dominion but also duels<


is Turtling and eating all that cheap chip damage the only WAy to kill this hero ?
samething goes for aramusha aswell.

CptMatsumaru
03-18-2018, 11:43 AM
I can only advocate that Berserker is facing a hard time.

I can only tell from my point of view, that Orochi and Beserker defeat themselves with other heroes pretty easily, as long as it refers to Duel.

Berserker will probably need a rebalance slowly.

TestO...
03-18-2018, 02:06 PM
untill they decide to do smth with orochi you/we are going to continue struggling and feel good about ourselves when we win..

Devils-_-legacy
03-18-2018, 02:20 PM
It's going to be a waiting game as they said the og cast will get a rework and going by there season 4 data I would guess warden Valkarie orochi are next up

Jarl.Felix
03-18-2018, 04:48 PM
My thoughts about berserker : Hyper armor. Hyper armor everywhere !

Devils-_-legacy
03-18-2018, 10:22 PM
He had it before he rework as well?

Knight_Raime
03-19-2018, 12:54 AM
Zerk could see some adjustments. Only thing I think she received that was too much was HA on her feinted into lights from neutral.
Rest of her buffs were fine.

Charmzzz
03-20-2018, 10:26 AM
He had it before he rework as well?

Yes, but not 400ms Light chains which are not stopped when blocked.


Zerk could see some adjustments. Only thing I think she received that was too much was HA on her feinted into lights from neutral.
Rest of her buffs were fine.

Imo either the Hyperarmor or the 400ms Lights or the chains being not interrupted by a block has to go away. Right now there is literally nothing you can do except rolling away when a Berserker starts his chain. Parrying 400ms Lights on reaction with feints in between is almost impossible, due to Hyperarmor any Deflect is wasted and you cannot stop his chain until you parry or he runs out of Stamina. Or is there something I am missing?

People complained about PK Light - Light being too fast. Now we have Zerker going for Light - feinted Heavy - Light - Light - feinted Heavy - Light - feinted Heavy - Light ad infinitum with Hyperarmor dealing the same amount of Damage!? Is there any way to stop him?

Trenk2009
03-20-2018, 11:31 AM
I think berserker is great in his current state, tho I would like for the top heavy finisher damage to scale up depending on how many strikes we went for in the chain.

The only real issue here is the lack of lag compensation sometimes making berserker near impossible to parry. Once we got the compensator, everything will be fine.

Knight_Raime
03-20-2018, 03:30 PM
Yes, but not 400ms Light chains which are not stopped when blocked.



Imo either the Hyperarmor or the 400ms Lights or the chains being not interrupted by a block has to go away. Right now there is literally nothing you can do except rolling away when a Berserker starts his chain. Parrying 400ms Lights on reaction with feints in between is almost impossible, due to Hyperarmor any Deflect is wasted and you cannot stop his chain until you parry or he runs out of Stamina. Or is there something I am missing?

People complained about PK Light - Light being too fast. Now we have Zerker going for Light - feinted Heavy - Light - Light - feinted Heavy - Light - feinted Heavy - Light ad infinitum with Hyperarmor dealing the same amount of Damage!? Is there any way to stop him?

Are you 100% sure those 400ms lights continue combos if blocked? Because I seem to recall blocking a 400ms light from neutral and it stopping the zerk in his track. Unless you're talking about something else and i'm being slow again.
And there isn't anything else. HA absolutely has to go from neutral lights. top players already struggle blocking them consistently. HA is totally not needed for that situation as well.

Charmzzz
03-20-2018, 03:32 PM
Are you 100% sure those 400ms lights continue combos if blocked? Because I seem to recall blocking a 400ms light from neutral and it stopping the zerk in his track. Unless you're talking about something else and i'm being slow again.
And there isn't anything else. HA absolutely has to go from neutral lights. top players already struggle blocking them consistently. HA is totally not needed for that situation as well.

Yes, you can stop his Light chain when you block his first from neutral. If he gets it going - nope, blocking does not stop the chain. Or I am nuts and they throw heavies at me, but I don't think so because they came out pretty fast.

Knight_Raime
03-20-2018, 03:38 PM
Yes, you can stop his Light chain when you block his first from neutral. If he gets it going - nope, blocking does not stop the chain. Or I am nuts and they throw heavies at me, but I don't think so because they came out pretty fast.

I can hop on later to test. But i'm like 90% sure they buffed his combos so they're faster. So you could have indeed blocked a heavy.

Charmzzz
03-20-2018, 03:40 PM
I can hop on later to test. But i'm like 90% sure they buffed his combos so they're faster. So you could have indeed blocked a heavy.

So I should try to parry a "probably" heavy @600ms on any direction when the Zerker is spamming feints on me? WTF! ^^
I could deal with that if a Light or Zone would stop him from doing that, but nope, Hyperarmor kicks me if I do that...

Knight_Raime
03-20-2018, 04:06 PM
So I should try to parry a "probably" heavy @600ms on any direction when the Zerker is spamming feints on me? WTF! ^^
I could deal with that if a Light or Zone would stop him from doing that, but nope, Hyperarmor kicks me if I do that...

So I went and fought a level 3 zerk and then played as a zerk against a level 3 warden. In both cases the in combo lights were blocked and it ended my chain.
SO you must have blocked what you thought was a light but was a heavy. Re looking at their own written blog they did also buff the lights in combos to be 400ms instead of 500ms. But heavy speed changes are not mentioned and what I can tell (from their 2 gifs side by side) heavy speed wasn't buffed. it just feels that way in combo because the faster lights (and always similar ish animations of light and heavy) combined.

HazelrahFirefly
03-20-2018, 04:14 PM
Hmmm, from my experience the Zerk chain gets stopped at the second light blocked. In fact, I've had a relatively easy time crushing them as the Warden because I either crushing counter the second if its a top, or block it and zone, which often makes them go passive.

The character that I'm having a hard time with is the Shaman strangely. It basically seems as if the game can't ever decide you should get their spin hit to connect, so I never know if I'm safe or not, but I assume the Zerks I've fought have felt the same way. I certainly had moments where they got ripped off while I scored a hit. I don't think Ubi has the hit boxes correctly implemented for spinning dodge attacks.

SlashingElbow
03-20-2018, 05:19 PM
berserker is fine now. I suggest u actually learn how to fight different characters and dont expect every character to be the same. This game gonna end up with 1 moveset and bunch of different skins lol.. Soft weak guys like you are destroying the game slowly

HazelrahFirefly
03-20-2018, 06:26 PM
berserker is fine now. I suggest u actually learn how to fight different characters and dont expect every character to be the same. This game gonna end up with 1 moveset and bunch of different skins lol.. Soft weak guys like you are destroying the game slowly

That's right, keep feeding the hate machine. Toxic to the core!

UbiJurassic
03-20-2018, 07:25 PM
berserker is fine now. I suggest u actually learn how to fight different characters and dont expect every character to be the same. This game gonna end up with 1 moveset and bunch of different skins lol.. Soft weak guys like you are destroying the game slowly


That's right, keep feeding the hate machine. Toxic to the core!

Let's not and try and keep the conversation constructive instead. ;)

HazelrahFirefly
03-20-2018, 07:48 PM
Let's not and try and keep the conversation constructive instead. ;)

My apologies, I'm just gettick sick of the tryhards telling everyone they suck.

Knight_Raime
03-20-2018, 11:15 PM
berserker is fine now. I suggest u actually learn how to fight different characters and dont expect every character to be the same. This game gonna end up with 1 moveset and bunch of different skins lol.. Soft weak guys like you are destroying the game slowly

I suggest you actually learn to debate instead of strawmanning people who don't share your opinion mate.
You don't "deal with" 400ms HA attacks. If you attempt to parry and fail the zerk will simply eat the hit at worst and continue their combo.
and turtling up is you doing nothing and giving them free chip damage. Deflects beyond zerks one deflect will also net you nothing.
Everything else done to zerk buff wise was fine. HA on neutral 400ms attacks is not fine. You're essentially asking to let the zerker always take the pace of the fight and dictate it. Because zerk is always going to get in and do their mix ups/combos because either you fail to block it or you attempt to attack first and trade.

Charmzzz
03-21-2018, 10:49 AM
I suggest you actually learn to debate instead of strawmanning people who don't share your opinion mate.
You don't "deal with" 400ms HA attacks. If you attempt to parry and fail the zerk will simply eat the hit at worst and continue their combo.
and turtling up is you doing nothing and giving them free chip damage. Deflects beyond zerks one deflect will also net you nothing.
Everything else done to zerk buff wise was fine. HA on neutral 400ms attacks is not fine. You're essentially asking to let the zerker always take the pace of the fight and dictate it. Because zerk is always going to get in and do their mix ups/combos because either you fail to block it or you attempt to attack first and trade.

^This. That's exactly how I feel about Zerker at the moment. He comes in and does his thing, no matter what I do. Feels like I have to watch and block him until he is low on Stamina so I can get aggressive. That's plain BS. As Raime said, 400ms Attacks from neutral with Hyperarmor is a bit too much. Imagine PK had Hyperarmor on her Zone or second Light, too. People would outrage...

@SlashingElbow: I am here since Release. I am playing in the Top 5% MMR in Dominion and Duel. I figure out how to handle different Characters, still I do make mistakes. I don't want everything to be the same, I just want everything to be counterable. And 400ms Hyperarmor Attacks from neutral are neither parryable on reaction (you barely have 100ms reaction time because it is 100ms guard switch and 200ms parry window), you cannot out-trade Zerk doing that because of Hyperarmor, Deflects are useless. Everything left is blocking and rolling. No way to counter and punish. I cannot think of any other move that has all these advantages.

WastedPunk
03-21-2018, 11:17 AM
Imo either the Hyperarmor or the 400ms Lights or the chains being not interrupted by a block has to go away. Right now there is literally nothing you can do except rolling away when a Berserker starts his chain. Parrying 400ms Lights on reaction with feints in between is almost impossible, due to Hyperarmor any Deflect is wasted and you cannot stop his chain until you parry or he runs out of Stamina. Or is there something I am missing?

People complained about PK Light - Light being too fast. Now we have Zerker going for Light - feinted Heavy - Light - Light - feinted Heavy - Light - feinted Heavy - Light ad infinitum with Hyperarmor dealing the same amount of Damage!? Is there any way to stop him?
Aren't you the same guy that told me that a 300ms window between whether or not a Warden will soft feint his shoulder bash into a GB was reactable?Why would you have trouble with a 400ms light that isn't even an un-blockable but say that 300ms on a CC isn't troublesome?

Ulrichvonbek111
03-21-2018, 11:20 AM
I love the Berserker so so much.

Charmzzz
03-21-2018, 11:31 AM
Aren't you the same guy that told me that a 300ms window between whether or not a Warden will soft feint his shoulder bash into a GB was reactable?Why would you have trouble with a 400ms light that isn't even an un-blockable but say that 300ms on a CC isn't troublesome?

You mix up different timings.

1. Warden SB Cancel into GB or Idle 400ms. This means that when Warden starts his charge he can ONLY cancel or turn it into a GB within the first 400ms. Full 400ms time window for the enemy to anticipate what Warden will do.

2. Zerker using a Heavy feint into Light will turn the Light into a 400ms Attack. A 400ms Attack gives the player roughly 100ms time to anticipate what the Zerker does and react to it. 400ms Light attack - 100ms guard switch - 200ms parry window = 100ms.

You get the difference now? I just wanted to point out that parrying a Zerker who goes for massive Heavy feints into Lights is almost impossible, you can only block it consistently. Whole different thing than a constant 400ms window to dodge or CGB.

Dtheawesome9010
03-21-2018, 01:40 PM
Berserkers can and will be cancer I can't tell u the # of times those guys were just cancer worse is when they gank up with others. god i hate that it always gets me regardless of spamming my zone attack with revenge to get them to back the hell off so yes berserkers are just cancer as hell and its just so bad

Ulrichvonbek111
03-21-2018, 02:31 PM
Berserkers can and will be cancer I can't tell u the # of times those guys were just cancer worse is when they gank up with others. god i hate that it always gets me regardless of spamming my zone attack with revenge to get them to back the hell off so yes berserkers are just cancer as hell and its just so bad

Why are people so flippant in using the word cancer ?
Many families have lost someone dear to them from this devastating disease. It must be a sign of today,a tragic sign at that.Many people have no compassion,only time for themselves ramming their fat mouths full of sh!t and spouting obese children.How self conceited and anal many people are.
I hear in game "Wow I hope you die of cancer",,,this is beyond all comprehension,,what chance do their offspring or future offspring have when they only have idiots to look up to.....WOW

FightingFerrets
03-21-2018, 03:29 PM
Played a dominion match yesterday vs 3 Berserkers and a Highlander. It was tragic. The absolute worst experience. Spinning axe blades everywhere. Raging hyperarmor laced combos from multiple flanks at the same time and a spam fest of unblockable heavies. This isn't a gank rant...I understand ganks are a part of the mode and get caught in them and participate in them regularly. But if you're dialed in on one Beserker and doing your best to deal with all the stuff mentioned here while another one comes up behind and lets it rip...hopeless. Not hard to see why people are leaving. Many people are finding the game more frustrating than fun, and in the ultra competitive world of video games it's easy to move on rather than be a dedicated die hard to one exceptional concept that is transforming into a niche of a niche.

XJadeDragoonX
03-21-2018, 07:20 PM
Honestly you gotta just walk in the berserkers shoes. My feints into light get parried all the time. Or at least blocked consistently. And then I have 0 stamina. They have very poor stamina management so that's gotta be your strategy. Only crappy berserkers keep an attack flow going without feints so you can almost always count on it being a feint so just go for a parry on the direction the feint came from.

RenegadeTX2000
03-21-2018, 08:07 PM
I only talk about issues of a character... Then I use those characters that have those "good issues." lol can't beat them, join them. Don't got time for that lmao

Felheric
03-21-2018, 08:49 PM
Playing against berserker with bad connection or purposely lag switching his upload is complete nightmare.

Duno what JadeDragoon is talking about parrying same side where feint come from, when he can mix up sides no problem and when you are conditioned enough by 400 ms light feints to not parry him, he will let heavy rip on block and thats when that weird delayed light come into play and if you dont block it or parry it- all just start again.

Danish_Crusader
03-21-2018, 08:57 PM
Aside from his hyper armor, constant staggering and uninterruptable combos, he is perfectly balanced.
But you know, with those 3 things he is OP as ****, so nerf him.

Knight_Raime
03-21-2018, 10:29 PM
Honestly you gotta just walk in the berserkers shoes. My feints into light get parried all the time. Or at least blocked consistently. And then I have 0 stamina. They have very poor stamina management so that's gotta be your strategy. Only crappy berserkers keep an attack flow going without feints so you can almost always count on it being a feint so just go for a parry on the direction the feint came from.

I played her extensively pre season 5 buff and have played her a decent amount sense. My issue is not that I struggle blocking/parrying zerk. I think the difficulty of that is fine.
My issue is more on a concept perspective. I don't enjoy how the HA on neutral lights combined with the speed forces you to turtle up. Combo characters in general are not good for the health of this game imo. You get this new zerk where it's borderline broken against average players and a decent threat at top regardless of skill. And aramusha whos a decent threat at average play and a non threat in top play. It's almost impossible to balance decently.

By removing HA off of the neutral 400ms lights it means the zerker has to choose when to attack. instead of just auto feinting into whatever attack his opponent decides to throw out. With how much HA zerk has at the moment there really isn't a decision proccess made on what you want to trade with or not trade with. You just trade because your speed and the ability to have HA up for 4-5 seconds will beat basically anything coming your way and you'll control the fight post trade. I don't enjoy brainless actions. It's why I also take issue with goki's passive armor. Trading should be a smart manuver that has proper risk and reward. For the zerk outside of a small handful of attacks (which no one should ever trade with anyway) doesn't have to think about trading. and that urks me.

XJadeDragoonX
03-22-2018, 12:37 AM
I played her extensively pre season 5 buff and have played her a decent amount sense. My issue is not that I struggle blocking/parrying zerk. I think the difficulty of that is fine.
My issue is more on a concept perspective. I don't enjoy how the HA on neutral lights combined with the speed forces you to turtle up. Combo characters in general are not good for the health of this game imo. You get this new zerk where it's borderline broken against average players and a decent threat at top regardless of skill. And aramusha whos a decent threat at average play and a non threat in top play. It's almost impossible to balance decently.

By removing HA off of the neutral 400ms lights it means the zerker has to choose when to attack. instead of just auto feinting into whatever attack his opponent decides to throw out. With how much HA zerk has at the moment there really isn't a decision proccess made on what you want to trade with or not trade with. You just trade because your speed and the ability to have HA up for 4-5 seconds will beat basically anything coming your way and you'll control the fight post trade. I don't enjoy brainless actions. It's why I also take issue with goki's passive armor. Trading should be a smart manuver that has proper risk and reward. For the zerk outside of a small handful of attacks (which no one should ever trade with anyway) doesn't have to think about trading. and that urks me.

Realistically, I dont see the benefit of hyper armor on lights. When do you even have the chance to counter attack against a light? It's like fighting aramusha. If he does hit light, you have two options. Parry or block. Same with zerker lights. If he's got hyper armor on his lights, it's really inconsequential. I've never actually sat there while fighting a zerk and thought "man I wish those damn zerks didn't have hyper armor on those lights that have no opening anyway"

I actually prefer pre season 5 zerk. The top unblockable finisher is crap anyway. 30 damage where other heroes get 40s-50 the same. And in 4v4 you're looking more like 60-70 while zerk is like 40 max. I prefer the high damage without unblockable

Knight_Raime
03-23-2018, 12:04 PM
Realistically, I dont see the benefit of hyper armor on lights. When do you even have the chance to counter attack against a light? It's like fighting aramusha. If he does hit light, you have two options. Parry or block. Same with zerker lights. If he's got hyper armor on his lights, it's really inconsequential. I've never actually sat there while fighting a zerk and thought "man I wish those damn zerks didn't have hyper armor on those lights that have no opening anyway"

I actually prefer pre season 5 zerk. The top unblockable finisher is crap anyway. 30 damage where other heroes get 40s-50 the same. And in 4v4 you're looking more like 60-70 while zerk is like 40 max. I prefer the high damage without unblockable

It's the threat that he'll be able to continue the combo or continue to feint into obscene speed. It's virtually guaranteeing the zerk always gets in/does damage.
In essence it's not that what it does in itself that's super powerful. But what it stands for is.

As I've already mentioned i'm just not fond of it from a design perspective. I still reg hand zerks their axes (pun intended.) I just don't enjoy what he's become due to this one minor change and the lack of being able to cancel light recovery whiffs. everything else I love.