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Cliff_001
03-07-2018, 08:57 PM
I really have no words to describe how unfair these modes have become. I'm really upset about how much cc, unblockable spam, hyper armor, and feats are ruining the experience of what used to be a somewhat enjoyable experience. Gank squads run rampant, ledges are everywhere and in my eyes the character changes with season five were made for 1v1's and in turn did not help in the 4v4 balance. Really hope they start considering how all of these changes effect all of the modes and not just one or two.

Devils-_-legacy
03-07-2018, 09:45 PM
What heros? In particular I'm just wondering ?

Cliff_001
03-07-2018, 11:12 PM
What heros? In particular I'm just wondering ?
Mainly conq and highlander, also a little bit of kensei but he's not to bad.

Archeun
03-07-2018, 11:14 PM
It's only going to get worse.

RenegadeTX2000
03-07-2018, 11:44 PM
anybody with an unblockable is an issue in gank situations. But the pk/shaman combo is the real issue. or the nobushi/shaman 2v2 combo.

Waynedetta40k
03-07-2018, 11:48 PM
Imo 4v4 has several problems that need to be fixed:

1. I would consider a rework of how the combat system works in 1vx fights. 1v1 is fine but in 1vx its lackluster.
2. all the 4v4 modes but tribute feel rushed. Like if they didnt had enough time to come up with something that fits the combatsystem and just took some known modes from others games.
3. Unblockable/CC spam like you guys mentioned it basicially make revenge useless especially combined with my #1 #2

Tirik22x
03-08-2018, 01:47 AM
Imo 4v4 has several problems that need to be fixed:

1. I would consider a rework of how the combat system works in 1vx fights. 1v1 is fine but in 1vx its lackluster.
2. all the 4v4 modes but tribute feel rushed. Like if they didnt had enough time to come up with something that fits the combatsystem and just took some known modes from others games.
3. Unblockable/CC spam like you guys mentioned it basicially make revenge useless especially combined with my #1 #2

The easiest fix for this is to allow revenge to block unblockables, and to increase the damage percentage of friendly fire.

Completely solves the issues imo.

XJadeDragoonX
03-08-2018, 01:48 AM
My main issue with 4v4 is that you get the most XP in 4v4 but it's the absolute worst game types to try and actually level up a new character in

Mirage6201
03-08-2018, 02:26 AM
Xbox.

Agree. Iím not liking the state of the game or itís direction. Faster and unblockables everywhere is not my thing.

I really need lag comp soon or Iím out. I use to be able to block lights but after removal of timesnap I feel like some attacks are just too fast for me. I have a 2 kd on two heroes and a 1.66 avg but I feel crappy at times. Btw I main LB (40) and beserker (37).

Fun but frustrating. My fuse is about to blow after 130 prestige levels. It doesnít help I canít replace my elite controller bc they have been discontinued. Ahhhh

Cliff_001
03-08-2018, 02:51 AM
It doesnít help I canít replace my elite controller bc they have been discontinued. Ahhhh

Wow really I used to have two of them but they both broke after heavy use which is a shame and I did not want to keep spending $150 on something that kept breaking. Its a shame that they were so flimsy and stopped making them because they were probably the best controller on the market.

goatwack
03-08-2018, 03:46 AM
I've noticed a resurgence of the Highlander/ Kensei/ PK combos which make the 2 or 3 v 1 scenarios near unwinnable. Especially troubling as a less 'mobile' class such as Conqueror, where opponents will pick you off first with the relentless corner-pins and a volley of unblockables.

Gank squads are definitely more prevalent in this season, but will hopefully die down somewhat in time. God knows it's hard enough to get a decent 4 v 4 Dominion game in these dark times :cool:

CandleInTheDark
03-08-2018, 07:48 AM
I've not 4v4'd for a while before servers but it does seem that dominion has turned into the rolling 4v4 skirmish should be but it is breakable even as a PUG player. The issue most people have is that someone will inevitably spam group up to meet it, whatever the zones are like, and people get sucked into a five minute tussle over one zone or worse, in the middle when the opponents have two zones. This is dumb, especially if their points are climbing quicker than yours.

Ignore the panicked group up calls and go for an empty zone, if you see themurderball coming one way then take the other way out and go either to the other zone or the soldier zone, eventually they are going to get caught up on someone else determined to fight them all giving you chance to escape, you are looking to get two zones going because then they have two options, keep doing what they are doing and watch the deficit they have to your team increase or split and stop ignoring the objective. If they aren't taking notice that two zones are down and aren't chasing you, boost until they realise you're there.If you are really lucky, at least one other in your team will realise what you are doing and will help with this.

While ubisoft need to work on the voice chat on servers, hopefully what servers will do is make it more feasible to find a group and get voice chat going outside of the game,because murderball does not work against a team working together, it's why we never saw it outside the one rolling 1v3-4 that involved a nobushi in the season 4 launch stream.

Waynedetta40k
03-08-2018, 08:39 AM
Ignore the panicked group up calls and go for an empty zone, if you see themurderball coming one way then take the other way out .

You are always in those threads and are always missing the point. No one says ins impossible to defeat and we get that you wanna teach everyone how to beat it. T
Thats not the point.

Knight_Raime
03-08-2018, 09:55 AM
The changes are made with all modes in mind. The problem is that they can't forsee every situation. Just because it might sound like a no brainer to us doesn't mean they also would have caught it.

Hero balance is the least of 4v4's problems. Nothing discourages ganking. Instead of making heros worse off in 4v4 to "reduce spam" they just need to make smart adjustments to existing mechanics to discourage it. Feats also need an overhaul.

CandleInTheDark
03-08-2018, 10:11 AM
You are always in those threads and are always missing the point. No one says ins impossible to defeat and we get that you wanna teach everyone how to beat it. T
Thats not the point.

Some of it is on the players though. If everyone learns to beat it and people learn that going around in a four is going to lose them games, does that not at least in part solve the issue? I would say that teaching people how to break a murderball is more productive than shouting 'fix it' at the devs and expecting changes to come tomorrow and if that means someone like me needs to say hey maybe don't get sucked into a rolling 4v4 and play the objective in an objective based game then that is what I will do.


Fun but frustrating. My fuse is about to blow after 130 prestige levels. It doesn’t help I can’t replace my elite controller bc they have been discontinued. Ahhhh

Looking up elite controller, it looks like Microsoft might have another in the works, no saying on when or if it actually is coming but there have been image links they have confirmed the veracity of. I would never get another of the current ones because they never lasted more than a couple months at a time so this might draw me back in.

Kelson27
03-08-2018, 10:50 AM
Straight up:

Revenge
When triggered, should trigger instantly, you should not be able to be pinned by any cut scene shenanigans - it should bust you out of the hell hole that got you revenge in the first place. If a 3rd player gets a hit in, instant revenge meter fill. Side note, revenge gains should disapate within 3 seconds if you dispatch a player 1v1. None of this second fight, immediate revenge BS. You should never run into a 1 v 2 and find yourself outnumbered AND they are popping revenge.

Feats
Remove them until a better solution to spice up matches can be found. They add nothing to the game currently. About as much fun as spoilt milk on your cheerios, I was so looking forward to those cheerios but now they're full of crossbow bolts, big *** rocks, this ones on fire, damnit I taste poison too! these cheerios suck!!!

Reflex guard: It's broken. Needs fixing asap. Remove the startup delay, reengaging the same direction should occur with any push into that direction - you shouldn't need to roll the sticks to other sides just to guard the same direction, and it will move mountains against light spam on consoles.

The kits are a whole different beast and I want to see the entire roster before whining to much, but these things... revenge 1v1 being ridiculous, 1v2+ it doesn't do the job it should 9/10 times. And feats just being.. well dumb honestly. The best thing about this game is the fight mechanics, so many things are getting in the way of what is great about this game.

Also buff team mates, they seem to like running into certain doom, like into a pack of LBs waiting on a bridge emote spamming, or into 1 v 4s where you should initiate "brave sir robin" tactics etc. I'm fine with enemies where they are... ;)

PlatinumLegends
03-08-2018, 10:53 AM
I really miss the way For Honor use to be back in the beta days. For some reason the beta was sooo much fun it was one of the greatest times gaming. For some reason when the actual game came out the tweaks that were made changed its original playstyle.

In all instances I truly believe the new characters have ruined the game. It was great and dandy with just the original 9 characters with their proper abilities. No one was op necessarily and it was a good time. However once the centurion came out all hell broke loose with him. He killed a lot of players out of the game considering he doesnt have to do much but land one guard break that puts you into a infinite combo nearly sacrificing 60% of your health in seconds. It's not fun anymore and now we have heroes who have unblockables with ease like its killing the game. People like to be able to fairly play but the more these heroes come out with hyper armor, unblockables, attacks that allow you to heal it only makes you say whats the point. If you're not playing these characters you might as well put your controller down because you're going to lose 90% of the time even if they are a basic noob. You have to be a decent player to even be able to handle these guys. Im sure Ubisoft is sick of hearing the complaints like nerf him and buff her etc. It's hard to find the right balance that would keep everyone happy. However the good news is now that there arent any more characters coming out you guys can finally tweak characters who need it. A lot of people complain as well between systems of pc and console. Examples are peacekeeper probably isnt hard on pc but on console those light spams are hard for anyone to get out of or even try to fight. So people on console will say she needs to be nerfed as the people on pc say she isnt bad and that those console players just suck. It's hard to find that balance between both systems of operation but I do hope they find it because I really enjoy this game. I am a console player and I feel there are really only a few things about these characters that make them OP.

Warden- He's rather balanced to me his shoulder bash can give u a bit of trouble but if you dodge it the reward is good.
Raider- He's also pretty balanced and I dont find anything about him necessarily OP. However he is cancerous to fight in 4v4 modes where he can spam his unblockable zone.
Kensei- His buff definetly helped him and on console also difficult to fight especially when he can easily dash out of every attack you throw and hit you with a heavy.
Conq- I dont find conq that op just when he traps you in a infinite spam of lights that you can neither block or dodge is when he becomes hard but its not op so ill say he's balanced.
Warlord- Yeah well he has his health that helps him and his long distance throw thats good for ledges but other then that eh
Shugoki- Also super cancerous to fight in 4v4. He has tons of health and hyper armor to kick it off. 90% will use light into headbutt good luck getting past it and in 4v4 modes expect to have your back broken everytime whilst everyone swings at you. I think it would be better if he does the backsnap that the other players couldnt hit him until he was off of his back.
Peacekeeper- Light spams, Light spams, Light spams
Beserker- Just the Hyper Armor on some attacks
Orochi- Top light was really all he had going for him that and his zone. When fighting orochi everyone knew to block top light and zone and now that his top light barely does any damage he really has become quite a useless character.
Lawbringer- Balanced but definetly weak against other characters. Lawbringer is turtle gameplay parrying is all LB had to pull of his moves. Now that thats gone and parrying only gives a light well gg
Valkyrie- Also a light spammer but easier to manage. Her gb is easily punishable and I feel her dash back into shield stance miss should be too and she'd be balanced.
Nobushi- Shes pretty balanced no issues here
Centurion- OMG the most cancerous character in For Honor. The true reason I dont even want to play the game anymore. I know hes been nerfed but it doesnt changed the fact that he'll still wipe half your health with just one gb into a wall. Ubisoft I dont know how you can balance this character so hes not too weak but not as OP as he is. Notice how in many tournaments he's heavily used because of how op he is.
Highlander- His buff is just too much and also extremely cancerous in 4v4 game modes. I think hes balanced but does too much damage on certain attacks. If he lands his spin move into top heavy that you can block or dodge its wiped also nearly 60-70% of your health depending on his rep. He does too much damage just tweak his damage a bit and he'll be fine.
Shinobi- I feel shinobi's kick should be punishable thats it. If he misses he should be punished because he too can light spam and do a lot of things.
Gladiator- Some attacks should not be a given. The one attack where he wacks you in the face and gets a free heavy shouldnt be a thing because there almost no time to react to it and its to cheap. Also the constant pitchfork in the foot is annoying but I wont talk about that. Just fix the cheap shots he can still blind you and be able to switch what direction he swings but you should be able to block it.
Shaman- Ughh this ..... yeah I hate the fact of her lunge attack is simply to much. That attack will reach you from a mile away and its so fast. Some will say thats all she has going for her but you guys gave her the ability to bite bleeding opponents and get heath back thats more then enough.
Arumashu- Hes pretty balanced still a bit hard on console to fight but he really has a specific pattern so you just have to be ready for it. Thats all I have to say about him.

Redkey.
03-08-2018, 11:10 AM
Looks like the yellow glow gave you a target to complain. But the "issue" was there always, and usually it based on arcade style of playing and bad teamwork: trying to countering turteles and feeding Revenge, start fighting in a bad locations, like ledges, running alone from a respawn when your team is down and help your enemies to actually baseraping you. You think it was a realy big problem in 4v4 for berserkerk to send you top heavy message? Nope it wasnt. And gank is always a quantity.

But from the other hand we have Revange that sometimes just annoying. Looks like people abusing this and Ubisoft maybe should fix this and bring it back to an emergancy tools, from being a playing style. But as i said it could be a result of thoughtless spamming of attacks in the turtle.

What really annoying, and visible in this mode, where you actually should kite your enemy sometimes, is teleporting. So you running and charater behind you making a move that way off, but for some reasons he comes to a "null" position of aimation and making a hit looks like a technology from really old games. Same thing for GB. Tou dodging back and already on three body away, but he press the GB so..he is teleporting to you. I'm expecting for lag compensation to see even more interesting things).

Redkey.
03-08-2018, 11:13 AM
I really miss the way For Honor use to be back in the beta days. For some reason the beta was sooo much fun it was one of the greatest times gaming. For some reason when the actual game came out the tweaks that were made changed its original playstyle.

Beta was fun because no one play properly. "Just pressing random buttons - Liu Kang doing a job". Or, maybe, counterless GB was fun? It was fun, because it was you first impression with something - thats all.

Redkey.
03-08-2018, 11:16 AM
Shinobi- I feel shinobi's kick should be punishable thats it. If he misses he should be punished because he too can light spam and do a lot of things.
.

We talking about the same game? Zone attacks, GB, Charges.. there is alot of tools that punish this kick. If you will do this against a proper Highlander, you will die pretty quick. So, in reality it's a trading.

ChampionRuby50g
03-08-2018, 11:44 AM
Some of it is on the players though. If everyone learns to beat it and people learn that going around in a four is going to lose them games, does that not at least in part solve the issue? I would say that teaching people how to break a murderball is more productive than shouting 'fix it' at the devs and expecting changes to come tomorrow and if that means someone like me needs to say hey maybe don't get sucked into a rolling 4v4 and play the objective in an objective based game then that is what I will do.

I do disagree with you here, but I may be misunderstanding what you are getting at. Do you mean that once the playerbase has learnt a counter to ganking, by capturing points when they are preoccupied, running around in a 4 man will not be as effective? I doubt this will happen, as I remember threads complaining about gank squads from the early days of FH, and if a year later the majority of the player base still hasnít figured it out... Iíll also say on some maps this is damn impossible, especially if the team is grouped up. Overwatch for example. The way this map is set up, along with Forge if the ganking team captures the points early and dominates C and watches the middle from there itís a confirmed win basically. Back when I rolled around in a 4 man, we won 95% of our games even when the other team smarted up and went for other points when we werenít around. All it takes is for one ganker to be vigilant and notice when our point was been taken, and break off from the group and recapture/contest it, while the remaining 3 gankers can still win against the other 3 enemies/ hold them back long enough for the 4th player to rejoin the group. Now the enemy is back at square one, and our points still vastly outnumber their own. I feel the ganking issue wonít be fixed, not fully or partly, just by players learning that sneaking behind capturing points to break the team up and get ahead, especially if they are been dominated early. I wonít deny that, yes, this has worked before but it is not consistent and reliable enough to rely on to get you through by a long shot.

The devs do need to come in and make changes to mechanics to combat ganking in 4v4, but this is probably one of the hardest tasks for them. I donít have an answer how too, and no matter what they do they are going to piss off a lot of people because it would effect gameplay dramatically.

CandleInTheDark
03-08-2018, 11:52 AM
I do disagree with you here, but I may be misunderstanding what you are getting at. Do you mean that once the playerbase has learnt a counter to ganking, running around in a 4 man will not be as effective? I doubt this will happen, as I remember threads complaining about gank squads from the early days of FH, and if a year later the majority of the player base still hasn’t figured it out... I’ll also say on some maps this is damn impossible, especially if the team is grouped up. Overwatch for example. The way this map is set up, along with Forge if the ganking team captures the points early and dominates C and watches the middle from there it’s a confirmed win basically. Back when I rolled around in a 4 man, we won 95% of our games even when the other team smarted up and went for other points when we weren’t around. All it takes is for one ganker to be vigilant and notice when our point was been taken, and break off from the group and recapture/contest it, while the remaining 3 bankers can still win against the other 3 enemies/ hold them back long enough for the 4th player to rejoin the group. Now the enemy is back at square one, and our points still vastly outnumber their own. I feel the ganking issue won’t be fixed, not fully or partly, just by players learning that sneaking behind capturing points to break the team up and get ahead, especially if they are been dominated early. I won’t deny that, yes, this has worked before but it is not consistent and reliable enough to rely on to get you through by a long shot.

Yeah some maps are sucky and as others have said there isn't that much to discourage that behaviour within the game currently outside of how the other team plays. Am I saying that people playing smarter alone will fix everything? No,not at all, but I am saying at least some of it is on us and that if people are able to group up more often with the servers in they will have a level of consistency that doesn't exist currently.

What I am saying is that while you can't control what the other team does, you should at least know the best way to deal with it rather than keep on doing the same thing and yelling at the devs, because what I am seeing right now is

500 | 200
a, b | c (white)

GROUP UP!
GROUP UP!
GROUP UP!

That is not going to win any games at all and I have turned games by being the one to ignore group up and actually taking objectives.

ChampionRuby50g
03-08-2018, 12:07 PM
Yeah some maps are sucky and as others have said there isn't that much to discourage that behaviour within the game currently outside of how the other team plays. Am I saying that people playing smarter alone will fix everything? No,not at all, but I am saying at least some of it is on us and that if people are able to group up more often with the servers in they will have a level of consistency that doesn't exist currently.

What I am saying is that while you can't control what the other team does, you should at least know the best way to deal with it rather than keep on doing the same thing and yelling at the devs, because what I am seeing right now is

500 | 200
a, b | c (white)

GROUP UP!
GROUP UP!
GROUP UP!

That is not going to win any games at all and I have turned games by being the one to ignore group up and actually taking objectives.

Ahhh I follow you now. Itís late at night here, and Iím exhausted from digging trenches all day lol. Certainly is true we canít rely on the devs to fix everything for us, and we must at least show some pro activity in trying to get past it. But I just donít think itís effective enough to partly solve it, and results in just more frustration for the player trying to when their team mates donít pick the ball up themselves. I canít count how many times my team (when playing solo) has been getting stomped on and Iíve gone to another capture point, to capture it then just been smacked by 3 other people at once while my team hasnít even gotten another objective in the time itís taken for me to die and respawn. It feels like an endless loop, one that wonít end soon.

CandleInTheDark
03-08-2018, 12:14 PM
Ahhh I follow you now. It’s late at night here, and I’m exhausted from digging trenches all day lol. Certainly is true we can’t rely on the devs to fix everything for us, and we must at least show some pro activity in trying to get past it. But I just don’t think it’s effective enough to partly solve it, and results in just more frustration for the player trying to when their team mates don’t pick the ball up themselves. I can’t count how many times my team (when playing solo) has been getting stomped on and I’ve gone to another capture point, to capture it then just been smacked by 3 other people at once while my team hasn’t even gotten another objective in the time it’s taken for me to die and respawn. It feels like an endless loop, one that won’t end soon.

Well yeah it relies on your team getting the hint and breaking out of being 3v4 (at best) themselves and as you say on some maps it is harder. There are times the best I can hope for is that when I am the last standing or I come across three in a zone, my team actually does something productive on the way towards joining that charlie foxtrot, so certainly I don't think it is in a perfect state, I just think that doing the same things and 'waiting for the devs to fix it' is going to wind up all the more frustrating and the more people who get it into their heads to try and break that pattern the better.

swiss_soldier_1
03-08-2018, 09:03 PM
Just make maps with 4 objectives so a team has to actually split up to get them, then you can always run to help your allies but it will never get to 1v4... and gank squads would suck massive ****s

ChampionRuby50g
03-08-2018, 11:36 PM
Just make maps with 4 objectives so a team has to actually split up to get them, then you can always run to help your allies but it will never get to 1v4... and gank squads would suck massive ****s

I actually really like that idea. Having a map with 4 capture points would really change the way Dominion is played, and makes it not as monotonous. I can see how that would effect the roaming gank squads too.

RoosterIlluzion
03-09-2018, 02:16 AM
All the fuss about unblockables, why not just parry them?

JadeBosson.
03-09-2018, 02:31 AM
anybody with an unblockable is an issue in gank situations. But the pk/shaman combo is the real issue. or the nobushi/shaman 2v2 combo.

lol my friends use this in 2v2s

brashtralas
03-09-2018, 02:35 AM
All the fuss about unblockables, why not just parry them?

Youíre so right. Everyoneparries my conquerors shield bash and my centurions kick. My lawbringers shove and my wardens shoulder bash, too! Donít forget my gladiators toe stab and my highlanders kick/grab!

Come on, dude. I know you understand the game, donít be obtuse.

RoosterIlluzion
03-09-2018, 03:41 AM
Youíre so right. Everyoneparries my conquerors shield bash and my centurions kick. My lawbringers shove and my wardens shoulder bash, too! Donít forget my gladiators toe stab and my highlanders kick/grab!

Come on, dude. I know you understand the game, donít be obtuse.

Oh those unblockables?

Dodge.

brashtralas
03-09-2018, 04:03 AM
Oh those unblockables?

Dodge.

Or just continue being obtuse. Itís cool. I donít want the game to get better, either.

CandleInTheDark
03-09-2018, 11:15 PM
Mmk so here's an idea I wondered if the devs would consider, the main problem at the moment is there is no incentive to hold a zone and that in certain maps the zerg rush is most effective,so how about this?

The first person classed as boosting a zone gets a small life shield similar to the tribute defence buff and a small buff to attack, the benefit can only go to one person or again it would be a matter of grouping up.

The soldiers who own the soldier lane do 50% more damage than the set of soldiers attacking it.

Both of these are about having a definite benefit to owning the one and taking advantage of the bonus it gives one person in terms of defending a place they own and the soldiers who have hte momentum on their side in the pitched battle.

UbiInsulin
03-10-2018, 08:12 PM
Just a reminder from the For Honor forum guidelines (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1172268-(Please-read-before-posting)-Welcome-to-the-official-FOR-HONOR-forum!):


Please remain on topic and civil while participating on the Ubisoft forums. Offensive, toxic, or hostile content is not allowed and will result in closing or removal of post. This includes (but is not limited to) bringing up other players' ratings from 3rd party sites, as well as attacking the other forum user's supposed skill rather than engaging with their ideas. Persistent offenders may also have their posting privileges removed. This includes communication with forum users as well as forum moderators..


Gameplay tips are okay, but "git gud" posts combined with flaming are not.