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forgotten_f
03-07-2018, 10:54 AM
Although, I love seeing Conqueror actually being played, I do find some of his kit to be overpowered (Overpowered meaning there is no counter).

First off, his All Guard that leads into an Unblockable Heavy; I don't believe it is fair that he can do this immediately at any time. -- I persoanlly think that Conqueror should realize that the parry mechanic is in the game and have a shot delay on the Unblockabe Heavy. - For example; A character throws a Light at him, he doesn't need to parry. Just All Guard into the move. - Would,'t it be better for him to be forced to parry, and when he does his All Guard, there will be around a (give or take) 400ms delay in which he can perform the Unblockable. - This will make him either predict and read his opponent before Light are thrown, or simply react to Heavies.

Secondly, his Zone is literally unpunishable right now. He has an All Guard, when his shield is evidently not in front of him. Why? I think the All Guard should be removed during his zone to enable opponents to play offensively whenever he throws the Zone at incorrect times.

It's evident that Conqueror is extremely strong right now; I enjoy him being able to be viable, but when this stuff is unpunishable, it takes the thrill of fighting him completely away.

forgotten_f
03-07-2018, 10:57 AM
Sorry for all the typos. ;^;'

Tyrjo
03-07-2018, 11:00 AM
Shield bash needs to punishable with a GB if you dodge it. It's WAY to safe right now.

forgotten_f
03-07-2018, 11:02 AM
Just to clarify on the delay thing; His All Guard will still be able to block immediately as it is now. - Just that he will have to be holding that All Guard for (Give or Take) 400ms before he can initiate the Unblockable Heavy.

Again; That's just to make it to where he'll either have to read an opponents light, or punish a Heavy that should've been feinted.

BarbeQMichael
03-07-2018, 11:11 AM
Shield bash needs to punishable with a GB if you dodge it. It's WAY to safe right now.

This should be the case, against slow heroes he can just spam the bash until either he runs out of stamina or opponent runs out of hitpoints. Also I don't like the fact that while he is unable to feint (was originally meant as his sole weakness due to his weapon) he actually can feint with the fb. This was not even planned first, it was anomaly, but later the devs decided it was cool and added it to his description and thus sanctioned the abuse.

RenegadeTX2000
03-07-2018, 11:16 AM
Slow dodge characters just have problems because even if they dodge they can't stop his momentum from spamming it. They dodge and now they can't punish. Gotta keep dealing with it every time. If I'm not on point with Highlander when he knocks me out of Offensive form. I'mma die lol

CandleInTheDark
03-07-2018, 11:16 AM
Just to clarify on the delay thing; His All Guard will still be able to block immediately as it is now. - Just that he will have to be holding that All Guard for (Give or Take) 400ms before he can initiate the Unblockable Heavy.

Again; That's just to make it to where he'll either have to read an opponents light, or punish a Heavy that should've been feinted.

Isn't it already a couple hundred ms before allblock activates? I have only tried it against bots as I am levelling characters but it wasn't quick enough to get a heavy halfway through nor was it quick enough to deal with the second in a heavy chain.

forgotten_f
03-07-2018, 11:21 AM
Nope. - I've seen Conqs use All Guard half way through PK's Lights and get the Unblockable off multiple times.

BarbeQMichael
03-07-2018, 11:22 AM
Isn't it already a couple hundred ms before allblock activates? I have only tried it against bots as I am levelling characters but it wasn't quick enough to get a heavy halfway through nor was it quick enough to deal with the second in a heavy chain.

I think it is 300ms so it is mostly used against heavies to get better reward than from parry

CandleInTheDark
03-07-2018, 11:26 AM
I think it is 300ms so it is mostly used against heavies to get better reward than from parry

Is it also true that they can't just hold allblock now? Not certain if it was the way I was holding the stick but it felt more like how blade blockade felt when I tested the aramusha against bots to figure out how to read him,the white allbllock quickly came and went. That might just be me but I am certain on the activation time, it was zero lag against the raider level one only heavy how to play bot.

BarbeQMichael
03-07-2018, 11:38 AM
Is it also true that they can't just hold allblock now? Not certain if it was the way I was holding the stick but it felt more like how blade blockade felt when I tested the aramusha against bots to figure out how to read him,the white allbllock quickly came and went. That might just be me but I am certain on the activation time, it was zero lag against the raider level one only heavy how to play bot.

This I don't know, I thought they could still just sit in the mode like warlord if they want.

CandleInTheDark
03-07-2018, 11:47 AM
This I don't know, I thought they could still just sit in the mode like warlord if they want.

Like I say that one might be on me,I had trouble holding nobushi hidden stance until they widened the angle it activated on, I might have to look at the widget so that was a genuine does it happen as opposed to my other point lol.

Knight_Raime
03-07-2018, 12:35 PM
Full block has a 300ms time before they're fully in. So using it against lights on reaction is doable but difficult.

Anyway. His zone is incredibly safe. but it's also very predictable. you'll need to learn to parry it.

imo the only issue I have his his forward bash. It needed buffing because it was easily punished. I'm just not sure this was the way to do so.
it overshadows the rest of his changes for most players (since using the rest of his changes actually requires a bit of skill and effort to pull off consistently.)

I wouldn't know how to buff it otherwise though. potentially just upping it's stamina cost so it can't be spammed so hard would be the way to go.
I think the rest of his kit was done well though.

RenegadeTX2000
03-07-2018, 12:52 PM
Full block has a 300ms time before they're fully in. So using it against lights on reaction is doable but difficult.

Anyway. His zone is incredibly safe. but it's also very predictable. you'll need to learn to parry it.

imo the only issue I have his his forward bash. It needed buffing because it was easily punished. I'm just not sure this was the way to do so.
it overshadows the rest of his changes for most players (since using the rest of his changes actually requires a bit of skill and effort to pull off consistently.)

I wouldn't know how to buff it otherwise though. potentially just upping it's stamina cost so it can't be spammed so hard would be the way to go.
I think the rest of his kit was done well though.

Either more stamina or making it unsafe against everybody. Moves like that create unbalanced match ups. Fast moves in general shouldn't be so safe... PK zone being ideal. I would change it to where if 1st hit connects then 2nd hit will always connect and if they block you have time to parry 2nd hit. Of course move the damage numbers around so it doesn't hit as hard but man, the fastest of moves should have the most risk to them and the slowest of moves should be the leask risk in terms of block/whiffing... Right now it's all about fast movements with little risk, those are usually the top characters.

Knight_Raime
03-07-2018, 01:07 PM
Either more stamina or making it unsafe against everybody. Moves like that create unbalanced match ups. Fast moves in general shouldn't be so safe... PK zone being ideal. I would change it to where if 1st hit connects then 2nd hit will always connect and if they block you have time to parry 2nd hit. Of course move the damage numbers around so it doesn't hit as hard but man, the fastest of moves should have the most risk to them and the slowest of moves should be the leask risk in terms of block/whiffing... Right now it's all about fast movements with little risk, those are usually the top characters.

they could just make all static guard heros dodge recovery (sans forward) 600ms. that way all classes can reasonably punish things off of a dodge. but assassins would be slightly better at it at the cost of having reflex guard. (all assassins should have 500ms recovery imo)

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
03-07-2018, 04:44 PM
Although, I love seeing Conqueror actually being played, I do find some of his kit to be overpowered (Overpowered meaning there is no counter).

First off, his All Guard that leads into an Unblockable Heavy; I don't believe it is fair that he can do this immediately at any time. -- I persoanlly think that Conqueror should realize that the parry mechanic is in the game and have a shot delay on the Unblockabe Heavy. - For example; A character throws a Light at him, he doesn't need to parry. Just All Guard into the move. - Would,'t it be better for him to be forced to parry, and when he does his All Guard, there will be around a (give or take) 400ms delay in which he can perform the Unblockable. - This will make him either predict and read his opponent before Light are thrown, or simply react to Heavies.

I basically have to predict the attack to use the all guard as is now. Im sorry but do you have experience with it? Because it surely is not thrown out when you see an attack, at least not all the time. The majority is simply done from predicting not reacting. That is also his only real unblockable. Yes of course the charge move. But who falls for that now? As soon as I start swinging it people back up. At least before it charged into an unblockable I could us it to keep the distance I want. Now people back up twice the distance as before. That all guard move is not even an issue.

Secondly, his Zone is literally unpunishable right now. He has an All Guard, when his shield is evidently not in front of him. Why? I think the All Guard should be removed during his zone to enable opponents to play offensively whenever he throws the Zone at incorrect times.

It's evident that Conqueror is extremely strong right now; I enjoy him being able to be viable, but when this stuff is unpunishable, it takes the thrill of fighting him completely away.

His zone is crazy and surely will be nerfed. Perhaps to use more stamina? And its not that its nonpunishable, parry and attack.

Real quick on the all guard, y'all forget he has a big ace shield. Wtf else is it for if not superior blocking at some point. And the all gurad move is the only time now. That and the occasional block when you dodge in the direction of an attck.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
03-07-2018, 04:48 PM
when he knocks me out of Offensive form. I'mma die lol

Said every character in this game.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
03-07-2018, 04:50 PM
Just to clarify on the delay thing; His All Guard will still be able to block immediately as it is now. - Just that he will have to be holding that All Guard for (Give or Take) 400ms before he can initiate the Unblockable Heavy.

Again; That's just to make it to where he'll either have to read an opponents light, or punish a Heavy that should've been feinted.

It doesnt block immediately. I still have to go thru the animation of going into all guard. And if I have to wait to attack after it what is the point? How many other times does Coq have to land a heavy?

Roseguard_Cpt
03-07-2018, 05:03 PM
For Honor is a game about reading the opponent. If you fight a Conq who full-guards a lot, heavy feint and gb. If Guard Broken while in full block, the Conq cannot CGB.
The shieldbash is just a practice thing like dodging Cent kicks, you'll get used to it the more you have to fight it.
I'm fairly certain the zone hasn't changed since launch, but it is quite good and hard to punish. If you access to a unblockable bash/grab you can usually snag them after the flail goes around a second time.
Hope this helps!

frewbear
03-07-2018, 05:28 PM
Conq is still terrible in 4v4. His all-block move is only good against bots really, as any person using heavies will cancel or feint them and lights you need to guess before they're thrown. I've consistently had lights cut right through. All it does is get you GB'd or hit with a light. And if they spam lights it's not fast enough to block any after the first hits you.
His zone attack is useless - it buys you a bit of time but will get you OOS against anyone with half a brain. Or parried if they're smart.
Most of the roster are still faster than he is, so bash is great against noobs but easily dodged by anyone who is focused on you.
He is better than he was but thats not saying much. What he is most effective at now is stunlocking assassins with alternating lights and a bash when they catch on.

Vakris_One
03-07-2018, 06:33 PM
Shield bash should be punishable with a GB if dodged. I think he's the only character that has always had a safe unblockable bash attack if dodged.