PDA

View Full Version : The True Issue with Mix-Ups (I've figured it out!)



Archo-Vax
03-07-2018, 02:14 AM
There's a big difference between being able to play unpredictably, and a Heros' moveset itself being unpredictable. The former is good, the latter is bad.

There! Nailed it.

Knight_Raime
03-07-2018, 08:09 AM
I'm not exactly sure I follow. most mixups in the game I find particularly easy to follow and react to. Glad's being the only one I struggle with on any consistent basis. But I rarely fight a good gladiator to begin with. most just spam a dodge attack and follow everything with a toe poke which is just hilariously easy to see coming and punish on both things.

bob333e
03-07-2018, 11:17 AM
There's a big difference between being able to play unpredictably, and a Heros' moveset itself being unpredictable. The former is good, the latter is bad.

There! Nailed it.

The former is proper, actual mixups; the latter isn't, and is more of a discrepancy in balancing between heroes and their movesets. Finding your opponent's moveset unpredictable could stem from:

1) your hero having less tools at his disposal to use against opponents
2) your hero being overall clunkier, needing more recovery, burning more stamina, etc
3) your hero being less efficient at exercising BS tactics / cheese tactics than your opponent's hero

All of which, ultimately, amount to hero moveset balancing.

If I may, I'd also like to add, the nature of the word "mixups" is used in a rather vague manner in this game. Had this been Dark Souls, yes, mixups is a fitting term; for you can employ a hundred things at your disposal, not just your primary weapon, and could go crazy creative in mixing a lot of things together, added to weapon movesets. But in For Honor, you only have one weapon. It's more of a playstyle, than mixups.
This also draws the topic of "effective playstyles" when it comes to using certain heroes in specific ways to be extremely competitive. For example, you'll find most competitive Gladiators resort to toestab followups after each light attack, and they'll rarely let the unblockable bleed fly, it's mostly used for feints. Effective playstyles that denote a certain type of play to minimize opportunity windows in which you can strike back. They're not exactly mixups; they're ways to squeeze out a hero's most "viable" ways to be dangerous to you, is all. They're still using one weapon, and resorting to whatever the hero's moveset can allow them to do.

Knight_Raime
03-07-2018, 12:42 PM
The former is proper, actual mixups; the latter isn't, and is more of a discrepancy in balancing between heroes and their movesets. Finding your opponent's moveset unpredictable could stem from:

1) your hero having less tools at his disposal to use against opponents
2) your hero being overall clunkier, needing more recovery, burning more stamina, etc
3) your hero being less efficient at exercising BS tactics / cheese tactics than your opponent's hero

All of which, ultimately, amount to hero moveset balancing.

If I may, I'd also like to add, the nature of the word "mixups" is used in a rather vague manner in this game. Had this been Dark Souls, yes, mixups is a fitting term; for you can employ a hundred things at your disposal, not just your primary weapon, and could go crazy creative in mixing a lot of things together, added to weapon movesets. But in For Honor, you only have one weapon. It's more of a playstyle, than mixups.
This also draws the topic of "effective playstyles" when it comes to using certain heroes in specific ways to be extremely competitive. For example, you'll find most competitive Gladiators resort to toestab followups after each light attack, and they'll rarely let the unblockable bleed fly, it's mostly used for feints. Effective playstyles that denote a certain type of play to minimize opportunity windows in which you can strike back. They're not exactly mixups; they're ways to squeeze out a hero's most "viable" ways to be dangerous to you, is all. They're still using one weapon, and resorting to whatever the hero's moveset can allow them to do.

Just to butt in but Toe stab from my experience isn't used very often because good players tend to not get guard stunned. which lets them dodge the toe stab for an easy GB. Every glad I fight that I consider pretty mediocre spams toe stab and dash attacks though.

bob333e
03-07-2018, 04:03 PM
Just to butt in but Toe stab from my experience isn't used very often because good players tend to not get guard stunned. which lets them dodge the toe stab for an easy GB. Every glad I fight that I consider pretty mediocre spams toe stab and dash attacks though.

Neither are toestab spammers particularly interesting or challenging to me. I wasn't talking about those. I was meaning the toestab move as a followup on lightstun. I also see this more in tournament than in normal duels. Whenever I attempt tournament. Toestab after lightstun is like 90% guaranteed and is basically free damage. They're also generally people who half-arse the Qualifiers with a random hero just for the ornament, then switch to meta by Quarter Finals and proceed to adopt a toxic and win-centric playstyle from there.

And dash attacks against any good player are next to useless, especially on Glad since the block recovery is greater than on other assassins like Orochi.

It brings me to ask though; what is it about Gladiator that bugs you like you wrote above? is it the speed of his feints? in which case I'll agree, he's the feint god of For Honor.

Also I'll seize this opportunity to apologise about my lack of response under your Centurion rework thread, I know I did mention getting back to you with a deeper analysis but I get more and more discouraged to post anything on here the more child-mindedness, toxicity, and blatant insulting I see on this forum from a lot of users, who often ruin constructive and discussive threads; as well as the incessant forum spam.