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View Full Version : How to deal with Highlander's Kick Cancel into Grab?



BTTrinity
03-05-2018, 08:08 PM
I play Nobushi mainly, rolling doesnt work, I often get grabbed right through light attacks if I try to interrupt it...... Hidden stance is a no go unless I guess which ones coming out corrrectly... I cant out-agress him because Nobushi and everything she throws is 100% parry bait.

I tried getting on for a quick duel and instantly get matched with a highlander spamming his 50/50 bs.. What do I do about it, I feel like I tried everything

If all reworks are just gonna be giving everyone a 50/50 please let me know now so I can just stop wasting my time.

Waynedetta40k
03-05-2018, 08:18 PM
Its a ******** design for sure

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/7yig6i/highlander_kick_into_caber_toss_mix_up/

this thread is discussing it you might wanna take a look at it. As you can see there you can actually dodge it but its hard and properly impossible for the majority of the players to reliably hit the dodgetiming even the guy in the video misses it and then its still a 50/50 because if he then lets his kick go off youll eat all the dmg.

Specialkha
03-05-2018, 08:23 PM
Just play kensei and dodge attack for easy win, Ah yes, the kensei can basicaly spam that each time you do something and win

Baturai
03-05-2018, 08:25 PM
There is something you have to accept in this game, Kicks Jaws Hands shoulders and ****in headbutss penatrade your Sword. it goes through them like its a ghost :D
the most funny of them all is, that Jaws actually deal more damage than, Japanese Katana xD... and jaws can heal aswell.

Vakris_One
03-05-2018, 09:04 PM
I play Nobushi mainly, rolling doesnt work, I often get grabbed right through light attacks if I try to interrupt it...... Hidden stance is a no go unless I guess which ones coming out corrrectly... I cant out-agress him because Nobushi and everything she throws is 100% parry bait.

I tried getting on for a quick duel and instantly get matched with a highlander spamming his 50/50 bs.. What do I do about it, I feel like I tried everything

If all reworks are just gonna be giving everyone a 50/50 please let me know now so I can just stop wasting my time.
I'm not sold on your comment about "everything Nobushi does is parry bait". She has plenty of quick strikes and pokes and her zone's not too shabby either.

Dodging Highlander's grab takes very precise timing now. You have to wait and dodge as late as possible in order to dodge it or punish it with a dash attack. Wait until you see him transition the kick's animation into a grab then dodge. This of course will mess with your muscle memory for dodging the kick so you'll have to retrain yourself on dodging the kick as late as possible just in case he turns it into a Caber Toss.

BTTrinity
03-05-2018, 09:30 PM
I'm not sold on your comment about "everything Nobushi does is parry bait". She has plenty of quick strikes and pokes and her zone's not too shabby either.

Dodging Highlander's grab takes very precise timing now. You have to wait and dodge as late as possible in order to dodge it or punish it with a dash attack. Wait until you see him transition the kick's animation into a grab then dodge. This of course will mess with your muscle memory for dodging the kick so you'll have to retrain yourself on dodging the kick as late as possible just in case he turns it into a Caber Toss.

"By fast strikes and not a shabby zone" you mean parry bait and worthless then sure.

On a serious note, her "Fast strikes" are easily reacted to, even the newest of players will say shes easy to parry compared to everyone else. According to most Nobushi players that I've talked to all said (About 5 different people in total) her zone is not worth using after nerfing its damage to 20... (A 600ms attack that deals the same damage as Orochi's 500ms? VERY NICE to have /s) and were all in pretty wide agreement that Nobushi does not feel good right now, her multiple nerfs far overshadow her buff.

Ill see what I can do about his mixup, apparently I should be able to hidden stance the kick and dodge out of the grab before it hits me.

Devils-_-legacy
03-05-2018, 09:40 PM
I stopped playing nobushi after her aoe nurf tbf the kicks better but they didn't improve much I was hoping for a proper rework

BTTrinity
03-05-2018, 09:44 PM
I stopped playing nobushi after her aoe nurf tbf the kicks better but they didn't improve much I was hoping for a proper rework

The kick buff hardly helps against a good player who can already parry her 500-600ms attacks, dodging a 600ms bash is gonna be no harder than the former. The devs didnt put much thought into her rebalance at all. But I'm getting there, Ive hardly been playing the game these last few days out of frustration with these 50/50's but Nobushi feeling this way makes it even worse. I want old Nobushi back now :(

BarbeQMichael
03-05-2018, 10:48 PM
If the Highlander does kick into grab, it takes 900ms. You can interrupt him even with another highlander or raider who can do only 600ms attacks by reaction. If he does only the kick, it is 700ms so you will want 500ms attacks here but nobushi does have them, so everytime you see HL doing the kick just light attack and the problem goes away. It is doable with 600ms attacks too but it requires immense focus to react that fast. Characters with dodge attack get the easy card here, don't remember if Nobushi has them.

The_B0G_
03-05-2018, 11:04 PM
A fast light, or dodge the kick absolutely as late as possible, wait as long as you can before it hits, and you will dodge both kick and grab.

EvoX.
03-05-2018, 11:36 PM
Didn't you make a thread about quitting the game?

BTTrinity
03-05-2018, 11:51 PM
Didn't you make a thread about quitting the game?

I still get on for orders, but im no longer gonna put 20-50 hours a week into the game.

Vakris_One
03-06-2018, 02:11 AM
"By fast strikes and not a shabby zone" you mean parry bait and worthless then sure.
No, by that I mean she genuinely has fast lights (albeit no really useable chains), a useable zone, a pretty useful hidden stance and a pretty good OOS punish. She's always been around B tier because she's got a lot more going for her than say the old Kensei, old Zerk, old Conq, Orochi, Valkyrie, Aramusha, Shugo, etc.

There's a reason why a player of Alernakin's level uses Nobushi in both 1v1 and 4v4s and it ain't because of her now removed unlock exploit.



On a serious note, her "Fast strikes" are easily reacted to, even the newest of players will say shes easy to parry compared to everyone else. According to most Nobushi players that I've talked to all said (About 5 different people in total) her zone is not worth using after nerfing its damage to 20... (A 600ms attack that deals the same damage as Orochi's 500ms? VERY NICE to have /s) and were all in pretty wide agreement that Nobushi does not feel good right now, her multiple nerfs far overshadow her buff.
No she's not in a great place as of Season 5 for sure but she's not bottom tier either. Easy to parry only if you're genuinley being super predictable in my opinion. She's easier to read than a PK's lights I'll give you that but she's not exactly a slow a$$ Highlander either. She's in between. Nerfing her zone's damage to 20 isn't exactly the end of the world, most characters with a fast zone do 20 damage. The speed is what they need to improve now to make up for that loss in damage.



Ill see what I can do about his mixup, apparently I should be able to hidden stance the kick and dodge out of the grab before it hits me.
That's very risky as Highlander can slightly delay his cancel into Caber Toss to mess up your timing.

BTTrinity
03-06-2018, 02:58 AM
No, by that I mean she genuinely has fast lights (albeit no really useable chains), a useable zone, a pretty useful hidden stance and a pretty good OOS punish. She's always been around B tier because she's got a lot more going for her than say the old Kensei, old Zerk, old Conq, Orochi, Valkyrie, Aramusha, Shugo, etc.

Fair enough, I can agree with all of that.


There's a reason why a player of Alernakin's level uses Nobushi in both 1v1 and 4v4s and it ain't because of her now removed unlock exploit.

What is that reason? I'm honestly having trouble with her since her nerf, her biggest strength seems to be hidden stance but outside of 4v4's its very hard to use and keep your stamina under control. (I'm pretty new to duels, never really played them before)

I understand why shes valued for 4v4's (No recoveries, good cc, good health sustain on minion point, BS targeting exploits lol)


No she's not in a great place as of Season 5 for sure but she's not bottom tier either. Easy to parry only if you're genuinley being super predictable in my opinion. She's easier to read than a PK's lights I'll give you that but she's not exactly a slow a$$ Highlander either. She's in between. Nerfing her zone's damage to 20 isn't exactly the end of the world, most characters with a fast zone do 20 damage. The speed is what they need to improve now to make up for that loss in damage.

She honestly feels worse this season imo, but being predictable has nothing to do with it people can just react. I've feinted lights into hidden stance then throw them from a different direction and people just feint the parry attempt on the first light I feinted, and parry the ones that come out of stance... I've fought her enough that I can confidently say her lights are very reactable, but then again I also parry PK lights with ease (in 1v1's) when most people cant so..

I didnt know you can use Nobushi's zone off a heavy parry against some characters though, found this out from Mr.Medium on youtube (by far my favorite nobushi player to watch, very very skilled.)


That's very risky as Highlander can slightly delay his cancel into Caber Toss to mess up your timing.

Ill definitely keep this in mind, thanks.

Vakris_One
03-06-2018, 03:22 AM
Fair enough, I can agree with all of that.



What is that reason? I'm honestly having trouble with her since her nerf, her biggest strength seems to be hidden stance but outside of 4v4's its very hard to use and keep your stamina under control. (I'm pretty new to duels, never really played them before)

I understand why shes valued for 4v4's (No recoveries, good cc, good health sustain on minion point, BS targeting exploits lol)



She honestly feels worse this season imo, but being predictable has nothing to do with it people can just react. I've feinted lights into hidden stance then throw them from a different direction and people just feint the parry attempt on the first light I feinted, and parry the ones that come out of stance... I've fought her enough that I can confidently say her lights are very reactable, but then again I also parry PK lights with ease (in 1v1's) when most people cant so..

I didnt know you can use Nobushi's zone off a heavy parry against some characters though, found this out from Mr.Medium on youtube (by far my favorite nobushi player to watch, very very skilled.)



Ill definitely keep this in mind, thanks.
I'm not the best guy to judge the intricacies of Nobushi as I've never really liked the way she plays enough to main her but I have encountered a few really good Nobushi. I may not like their playstyles but pro players like Alernakin tend to not use low tier characters and instead stick with characters that have a variety of options for different situations. The way he makes his Nobushi dangerous is through using hidden stance to punish you for attacking him while also going aggressive in short violent bursts, which the Nobushi is quite good at.

A Nobushi that can mix the two without going OOS becomes very difficult to deal with. Here's a good example of him doing this against a Shaman:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz7ICUrmJA0

BTTrinity
03-06-2018, 03:29 AM
I'm not the best guy to judge the intricacies of Nobushi as I've never really liked the way she plays enough to main her but I have encountered a few really good Nobushi. I may not like their playstyles but pro players like Alernakin tend to not use low tier characters and instead stick with characters that have a variety of options for different situations. The way he makes his Nobushi dangerous is through using hidden stance to punish you for attacking him while also going aggressive in short violent bursts, which the Nobushi is quite good at.

A Nobushi that can mix the two without going OOS becomes very difficult to deal with. Here's a good example of him doing this against a Shaman:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz7ICUrmJA0

Fair enough, I just need to git gud with stance it looks like. Though, hopefully Ubi doesnt forget about her :( I think she could use another buff or 2.

If Id like to see ANYTHING done to her, it would be either reduce HS stamina cost or get rid of HS regeneration delay after using stance.

and make her dodge attacks more reliable to dodge with (make it so she can use sidewinder and cobra strike later into the dodge)

Knight_Raime
03-06-2018, 11:30 AM
Can't you just poke him out of it the moment you see orange with a light?
I would think you'd have the range to do so.

BTTrinity
03-06-2018, 01:43 PM
Can't you just poke him out of it the moment you see orange with a light?
I would think you'd have the range to do so.

Ehh sometimes it works, sometimes not.I havent been playing much so Its probably just a competence thing.

Roseguard_Cpt
03-06-2018, 05:17 PM
Hi, Rep 23 Nobushi here (as of yesterday, woot woot) and I've found that against Highlanders who go for the kick and grab, they improved the tracking but didn't make it godlike like Shaman's pre-nerf pounce, so if you're no comfortable throwing a light try to roll to your left (Highlander's right) and towards him, I haven't seen it do a 180 track yet so this could help. haven't fought too many Highlanders recently but its a trick that I used to use a fair bit, also, in regards to the kick/grab 50/50, the camera usually pans out when he goes for the grab inputs, I play on PS4, just something I've noticed.
Dodging into characters is fairly effective in certain matchups, not sure how the trick will work for a non-Nobu-Thighlander fight.

PS: If he starts the kick at a whiff distance, he'll probably cancel into grab.

Vakris_One
03-06-2018, 06:24 PM
For a visual tutorial on how to dodge the Caber Toss this video guide is very helpful:


https://youtu.be/3jLf1uqTvl8

pimmas01
03-07-2018, 01:15 AM
looking at this videos i was surprised to see the gladiator dodgeattack not work. i thought all dodgeattacks completely countered the kick/toss mixup. maybe he's too slow with the inputs? or gladiator specific.
anyways, if the highlander fastflows into off.stance by landing a regular attack, then you have no choice but to deal with the 50/50 other than rolling away which does work but, completely breaks the immersion : < rolling around in plate armor just seems so goofy and costs a lot of stamina.

if he enters off.stance raw, many attacks will be faster than his kick.