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View Full Version : Easiest way to fix ganking problem - just do it



swiss_soldier_1
03-05-2018, 03:38 PM
So, there have been so many posts about ganking, revenge, feats, spawn kill, unblockables, whatever.

There is just one EASY fix to all of this.

Make it so that friendly fire delivers 100% of the damage!!!

As easy as that, ganking would still be possible but you would be more careful in throwing attacks to avoid hitting all your teammates, resulting in:

- less attacks to deal with at the same time

- (enemy) friendly fire helping you defeat the enemies when outnumbered

And in case you don't care you can just spam and destroy the poor guy, but killing or seriously injuring your teammates, But who cares, they can be revived. But since no one likes to die, people would be more careful jumping in 1v2 and 1v3.

As. Easy. As, That. Would also make sense... an HL throwing his sword through his whole team dealing 0,2 damage while hitting me for 40 damage? Thanks but no.


I honestly think this would be enough, you would be seriously discouraged to go and be 3v1 if you team is already 2v1. Your 2 teammates can deal with that, and your intrusion would probably just complicated things as you'd hit each other several times.


Besides this, there are other things that could help, like giving reasons (bonuses?) to boost the zones instead of leaving them to go help and gank (or... harder to capture them? so if you lose them it's actually a problem and not "nevermind i'll just take it back in 2 seconds").

EDIT:
it's not like this was not brought up already a year ago...
https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/4zt9bg/friendly_fire/?st=jeedcwb9&sh=a91f4b4a

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6uzz30/lets_talk_friendly_fire/?st=jeedd3tt&sh=9e396063

Tirik22x
03-05-2018, 03:48 PM
I agree entirely. Idk why this isn’t already the case?

Having only deal a fraction of the damage PROMOTES mindless ********s...

Arekonator
03-05-2018, 04:04 PM
Thanks but no, teammates "helping" you through hits in your back are annoying already as is, i really dont need them to get worse.

Tirik22x
03-05-2018, 04:06 PM
Thanks but no, teammates "helping" you through hits in your back are annoying already as is, i really dont need them to get worse.

That’s the whole point.

SpaceJim12
03-05-2018, 04:08 PM
I think Ubi will can do one more thing. They must remove taking points when you capture the zone. You should stay in the zone to claim points no other way.
For now in dominion noone really care of sitting in the zone, cause sometimes even better to let one or two opponents took it and then gunk them 4v2 fast, and claim 100 point just to reclaim the zone.
And, for avoid gunking inside the zone, they should just add a multiplayer for thouse who stand in the zone all alone against enemy team. For exaple, I prefer to just stay in the zone, leave just to help my teammates in teamfight. So if I got 2-3-4 opponents on my point, I start claim x2-3-4 points per sec. Easy as play on Shaman.
I see all 4v4 modes problems and just think Ubi don't care about them at all.

swiss_soldier_1
03-05-2018, 04:08 PM
Thanks but no, teammates "helping" you through hits in your back are annoying already as is, i really dont need them to get worse.

They don't care about hitting you because they know the most they'll do as damage is interrupting your combos... I guarantee you that you'd see a radical change in behaviour once the community gets used that in 3 hits they can kill their partner.

I repeat, I honestly only see pros of this. Of course there would be the possibility of griefing, but we really don't want to fix HUGE problems in this game just for fear of some brainless idiots? Fears that could also be unrealistic...

Tirik22x
03-05-2018, 04:32 PM
They don't care about hitting you because they know the most they'll do as damage is interrupting your combos... I guarantee you that you'd see a radical change in behaviour once the community gets used that in 3 hits they can kill their partner.

I repeat, I honestly only see pros of this. Of course there would be the possibility of griefing, but we really don't want to fix HUGE problems in this game just for fear of some brainless idiots? Fears that could also be unrealistic...

Exactly. This would change everything for the better, and it’s a EASY fix. They could literally change this and have it active in a day.

CandleInTheDark
03-05-2018, 04:52 PM
I suggested earlier on removing revenge and balancing that with at least 75% friendly fire damage (to account for oh hell that's my ally realisation at the last second though I could see 100% being ok also) as in theory if you don't reward teams by letting them swing blindly, that removes some of the issue outside of teams playing smart and they kind of deserve the advantage in that case.

On the point of being 'helped' by being attacked in the back, (it happens >.> I have had a kensei try to attack an opponent through me, kill me after hitting me twice and go on to die himself and some people will do it to grief) I would also propose that if someone team killed more than once or twice in a match they are removed and replaced with a bot and given a quit penalty level matchmaking ban with longer for reports and solid evidence on griefing.

swiss_soldier_1
03-05-2018, 05:02 PM
I suggested earlier on removing revenge and balancing that with at least 75% friendly fire damage (to account for oh hell that's my ally realisation at the last second though I could see 100% being ok also) as in theory if you don't reward teams by letting them swing blindly, that removes some of the issue outside of teams playing smart and they kind of deserve the advantage in that case.

On the point of being 'helped' by being attacked in the back, (it happens >.> I have had a kensei try to attack an opponent through me, kill me after hitting me twice and go on to die himself and some people will do it to grief) I would also propose that if someone team killed more than once or twice in a match they are removed and replaced with a bot and given a quit penalty level matchmaking ban with longer for reports and solid evidence on griefing.

Revenge must stay, how do you want to last more than 5 seconds against all the unblockable spam there is right now? Friendly fire is what is missing to resolve the problem, we don't need to have it back removing revenge

I agree for a penanlty for friendly kills, but i'd say after at least 3 kills

Thorstein31
03-05-2018, 05:13 PM
This will sunk the game even faster, new players will ruin the experience for the older ones, add that to the penalty for leaving the game and you got yourself a preatty unfriendly environment for new players.
This would work as a mode where you got no indicators for attacks, gb and unblockables, like a realistic mode.

CandleInTheDark
03-05-2018, 05:13 PM
Revenge must say, how you want to last more than 5 seconds against all the unblockable spam there is right now?

I agree for a penanlty for friendly kills, but i'd say at least 3.

Honestly,I do not think there should be revenge, gear stats, feats or boosts, I think they add to snowballing in the case of the unlocks and boosts, cause a disparity between players in terms of stats and make up for bad gameplay (that of your team if you are 1v4 in elimination or yourself if you are choosing to 1vx in an objective based game) in the case of revenge.I also think that a 75-100% friendly fire damage and consequences for team killing will lessen the problem some or at the least make it so that if youdo lose, it came to a team actually working well asateam.

My main objection to it is I do not believe that a individual power up belongs in a team based game where both teams start with equal resources. If that did mean that some of the unblockables need reining in as part of that then I would rather they go that route

swiss_soldier_1
03-05-2018, 05:27 PM
Honestly,I do not think there should be revenge, gear stats, feats or boosts, I think they add to snowballing in the case of the unlocks and boosts, cause a disparity between players in terms of stats and make up for bad gameplay (that of your team if you are 1v4 in elimination or yourself if you are choosing to 1vx in an objective based game) in the case of revenge.I also think that a 75-100% friendly fire damage and consequences for team killing will lessen the problem some or at the least make it so that if youdo lose, it came to a team actually working well asateam.

My main objection to it is I do not believe that a individual power up belongs in a team based game where both teams start with equal resources. If that did mean that some of the unblockables need reining in as part of that then I would rather they go that route

Revenge in no way gives you the edge.... it just allows you to survive until help comes or it might allow you tu run away. Revenge is only annoying when triggered in 1v1,

This is a feature that needs to be in the game. In real life there is NO WAY a warrior can win when outnumbered, so since this is a videogame they allow you to have a chance. Have a chance. You are speaking like if revenge was still god moe. It's not the case.

And the team based game... do you see it being playing like a team based game? The only team tactic I see it's ganking, beside that there is NO
strategic anything


Anyway this is not a thread to discuss about revenge but to see if the community agrees with friendly fire being more powerful, with hope that ubisoft sees and acts.

Tirik22x
03-05-2018, 05:31 PM
Honestly,I do not think there should be revenge, gear stats, feats or boosts, I think they add to snowballing in the case of the unlocks and boosts, cause a disparity between players in terms of stats and make up for bad gameplay (that of your team if you are 1v4 in elimination or yourself if you are choosing to 1vx in an objective based game) in the case of revenge.I also think that a 75-100% friendly fire damage and consequences for team killing will lessen the problem some or at the least make it so that if youdo lose, it came to a team actually working well asateam.

My main objection to it is I do not believe that a individual power up belongs in a team based game where both teams start with equal resources. If that did mean that some of the unblockables need reining in as part of that then I would rather they go that route

Exactly; it would actually take talent to fight as a team, unlike the games current state of “see who can get off the unblockable to get the execution” first.

swiss_soldier_1
03-05-2018, 05:37 PM
This will sunk the game even faster, new players will ruin the experience for the older ones, add that to the penalty for leaving the game and you got yourself a preatty unfriendly environment for new players.
This would work as a mode where you got no indicators for attacks, gb and unblockables, like a realistic mode.

Not really. New player doesn't mean being dumb. If he's aware of friendly fire (via messages on the menu, or the tutorial, or whatever) he can easily pay attention.

The penalty doesn't have to be immediatly exagerreted. First time you might be just kicked from the game (with a message explaining why), then it might start to trigger temporary bans (maybe 5 mins initally, then 10, then 30, etc)

BIRDHUNTER77
03-05-2018, 05:39 PM
The fear with higher friendly fire is it could turn into a rainbow 6 issue with for no reason TK. You can report away but end up playing the same player in a round later. I agree something should change. Have been 4v1 plenty of times. Normally my own stupid game play but. It happens and don't make that mistake again hopefully in that round.

RiceComboA
03-05-2018, 05:45 PM
I agree for a penanlty for friendly kills, but i'd say after at least 3 kills

I would rather see penalty based on damage done, or number of hits done on friendly.

People could still grief by just hitting you still you're in the red if it's only punished on kill.

swiss_soldier_1
03-05-2018, 06:09 PM
I would rather see penalty based on damage done, or number of hits done on friendly.

People could still grief by just hitting you still you're in the red if it's only punished on kill.

true. im sure the developers can come up with something intelligent. but they need to add this feature as soon as possible. it's actully incredible it wasnt here from the start

CandleInTheDark
03-05-2018, 06:14 PM
Revenge in no way gives you the edge.... it just allows you to survive until help comes or it might allow you tu run away. Revenge is only annoying when triggered in 1v1,

This is a feature that needs to be in the game. In real life there is NO WAY a warrior can win when outnumbered, so since this is a videogame they allow you to have a chance. Have a chance. You are speaking like if revenge was still god moe. It's not the case.

And the team based game... do you see it being playing like a team based game? The only team tactic I see it's ganking, beside that there is NO
strategic anything


Anyway this is not a thread to discuss about revenge but to see if the community agrees with friendly fire being more powerful, with hope that ubisoft sees and acts.

It gives you knock down and uninterruptible attacks,now if people don't get knocked down they can manage the latter but someone getting to take away half the bar of an enemy because they were being outplayed is a poor balancing mechanic.

Team play does come into it in terms of dominion, they had a tournament on the season 4 launch stream and deathball would not have worked because the opposing team would have just taken two points and kept rotating them, they also rotated people in terms of healing up and boosting the zone, so when a team does play smart together, yes, teamwork is a factor.

While I get that this is primarily about friendly fire, what you are talking about is doing something to prevent ganking (which is an inaccurate use of the term but that's another debate) while keeping in the thing that is already meant to be a counter to ganking, in my view, doing something that dramatic skews the balance of the game by taking it too far the other way and this is absolutely part of that argument.


Exactly; it would actually take talent to fight as a team, unlike the games current state of “see who can get off the unblockable to get the execution” first.

Yeah I am not someone who is trying to keep with mob mentality so to speak, I try to react to the situation and make my hits count, I just feel that the way it is dealt with is the wrong way and that is something that I have long held in terms of revenge.


I would rather see penalty based on damage done, or number of hits done on friendly.

People could still grief by just hitting you still you're in the red if it's only punished on kill.

Ah yeah fair point, I didn't think of the fact that you can do a lot of damage without the kill which was why I brought up reporting but that wouldn't bring a short term escape from that..

Devils-_-legacy
03-05-2018, 07:36 PM
I wouldn't mind revenge going as long as they fix matchmaking and the snowballing effect as the game stands now you take away revenge and increase friendly fire would still be a big enough buff to gankers that I would see no point in playing unless some of my friends started playing this game imo

swiss_soldier_1
03-05-2018, 07:48 PM
the thing i could agree with is modifying revenge so it doesnt give attack bonus but gives enormous defense bonus, so it really would be a tool for surviving

but i dont care about revenge as long as we dont have friendly fire

Tecknoterrorist
03-05-2018, 08:01 PM
i agree 100%

UbiInsulin
03-05-2018, 08:40 PM
The fear with higher friendly fire is it could turn into a rainbow 6 issue with for no reason TK. You can report away but end up playing the same player in a round later. I agree something should change. Have been 4v1 plenty of times. Normally my own stupid game play but. It happens and don't make that mistake again hopefully in that round.

That would definitely be my fear as well, but there's still been a lot of good discussion here which I'll make sure to let the team know about.

swiss_soldier_1
03-05-2018, 09:27 PM
That would definitely be my fear as well, but there's still been a lot of good discussion here which I'll make sure to let the team know about.

please do! make this happen!

by the way, a suggestion on how to control the griefers.... chivalry medieval warfare had a system that could calculate the % of strikes dealt to enemies vs to allies, if you'd just add something like that you could then trigger the penatly that you'll decide to introduce. not that complicated

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
03-05-2018, 09:32 PM
Revenge mode is needed. I dont mind a larger friendly effect but at 100% I would 100% leave.

Veerdin-Wraith
03-05-2018, 09:51 PM
So... Your solution to ganking is to make it possible to grief eachother...?

Somehow, I get the feeling that this would make more problems than it would solve, and in all honesty? As annoying as ganking is, it's simply unavoidable in a 4v4 gamemode. If it annoys you that much, stick to Duel mode. That's really the only thing you can say.

Tirik22x
03-05-2018, 09:58 PM
I can see that this idea really makes zergers shutter!

Worried about being grief killed? Just have friendly kills carry a points penalty.

SpaceJim12
03-06-2018, 10:04 AM
I could say that for now revenge is a main problem in fight 1v1. Not in duels, but 1v1 fight in dominion etc.
And it's mostly because of revenge stats on gear. So, stop fix it, please. Or it will be more broken than ever.
And I don't think friedly fire will change gunking problem. Nowdays, people just use GB, stun moves etc, that deal no dmg around. That will help against Raiders, who spam zones, HL. But what about Aramushi in number of 2 that spam you with his light chains? No dmg to them, and you will die in next 2 sec.
Idea about friendly fire worth nothing. Believe me. Ubi need to do gunk rewardless at all. And I already writen down HOW to do it.

Jedioutcast88
03-07-2018, 02:46 PM
Its funny seeing this. Last week my buddy and me were talking about how they could change the ganging up specially in dominion. Then it hit us the maps and everything in dominion are set up in a way to be a team co-op mode. It’s really all on how you play dominion. Playing dominion you should go to where the minions are. Not only do they add cover but they also help chip down the opposing players and can provide enough cover and support till your teammates arrive to help. Having control over that area is almost the most important zone to control. We tried playing dominion this way and found a majority of the games we won with a significant difference in scores. Now it doesn’t stop the gank squad completely but it does help break them up in the matches. Dominion is not about kills it’s about controlling the battle field and for the most part they do a decent job in setting it up like one. Look at the maps. look at the layout of them. For the most part they are narrow offering multiple choke points. As long as you have control over the area with minions and your closest zone to your spawn. you will have an easier time keeping the pressure on the other team when you fight for the third zone And help can help separate the other team from grouping up. I have seen and done this I don’t know how many times where you see the area with minions being ignored or limited time is spent in there others then just to clear out and capture. All the players are going into one zone and also being out numbered easier. If you miss the point USE THEM MINIONS. As for the other 4 v 4 modes they do a decent job in keeping the team separated excluding skirmish. You may know how to fight in that game but not to many players know how the play the game. If you think I’m full of it, try it out. Go after the minions more often and worry more about the overall score then your kills.